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Restoration Advice

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    did001did001 Member Posts: 6
    That is what I thought so I went to a different place and bought another one. I compared them to the original and they all three looked identical. When I put the new one in it did the same thing.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So these are some kind of aftermarket gauges?
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    did001did001 Member Posts: 6
    I had to order the fuel and gas gauge from Walck's Four Wheel Drive in Bowmanstown, PA. I got the first temperature send unit from him. The second I got at NAPA. I compared the two new sending units to the original and they looked identical.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Very puzzling. Can you install a mechanical gauge instead? (with a metal tube, non-electric?)
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    did001did001 Member Posts: 6
    I would rather not. This P/U is about 90% original and I am trying to keep away from doing things that were not that way in 1958, Also I am not sure what a mechanical guge is like. This is my first restoration so I am kinda learning as I go.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm....you probably know these Jeeps better than I do, but was the temp gauge originally electric?

    The "mechanical" gauges have a metal tube running from the engine block to the gauge pack in the dash. No electrics.

    Could it be you are running a 6 volt gauge on 12V or vice-versa? I'm running out of ideas.
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    bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Sounds like an electrical problem somewhere. Could be something as simple as crud forming an alternate path, or some unexpected modifications to the original wiring, maybe even an ignition switch wearing out.
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    did001did001 Member Posts: 6
    The gauge was originally electric.

    I will call Walcks where I bought the gauge from. Maybe he sent me a 6v instead of a 12v gauge. Heck it is worth a try.

    Thanks for you ideas.
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    debosedebose Member Posts: 8
    IM LOOKING FOR A RELIABLE SHOP IN THE BAY AREA TO DO THE BODY AND SHEET METAL WORK ON MY 68. DO YOU KNOW OR RECOMMEND A SHOP? :sick:
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    did001did001 Member Posts: 6
    I called Walcks he said to take the speedometer out and reinstall the gauges being very careful not to have them touching the frame of the speedo. I did that and now they work fine. Problem solved. Thanks for your help
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So you WERE grounding out after all. That makes sense.
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    waltermainswaltermains Member Posts: 1
    I would appeciate some advice. I have been trying to sell my 1954 Ford F-100 truck project. My son and I started it and have done quite a bit of work including rebuilding the engine, rear end, radiator and transmission. This was started as a frame up restoration, so all original body parts have been removed, sanded and primed. Where we could, we have saved and cleaned original parts to be used for re-assembly. Presently, all parts, new and old are boxed and stored and we began to inventory what we had and what was needed to complete it. This is where the project stopped. Our enthusiasm and motivation have waned and it is time to say goodbye to this. I am asking $4000 for the truck. We originally paid $2000 and our receipts show over $8000 additional spent working on it.
    I would be happy to sell this for $4000 but am uncertain if I am asking too much. If you read this, send a response to let me know if you think I am asking too much for the project. You can see more information at this web site I put together to show our work.

    http://homepage.mac.com/salsafc/1954FordF100/Truck.html

    Thanks,
    Wmains
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    echs1968echs1968 Member Posts: 1
    I want to know dose anyone have any information on puting a C4 in a 1955 TBird with a Y Block 312
    has any one done it ? I have heard that C4 with a 5 bolt bell housing will work ???
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    My advice is to finish the project which illustrates your ability to stick with a job until it is completed. Show your son you are not a quitter. ;)
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Your price is more than fair IMO. Your challenge is the marketing, but your website does a pretty good job of it. Try the classics section of www.autotrader.com; Hemmings Motor News www.hemmings.com, and Cars On Line. All three of these will cost you about $100 for a month of blitz advertising and that should do the job.
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    nealkalnealkal Member Posts: 1
    Hello

    I have a 350 chevy engine (not sure the year, maybe 70 -73) with a 670 Holley carb and the secondaries will not open. they work fine if I manually pull on the linkage with hardly any resistance at all. I also looked at and tested all the vacuums and vacuum diaphragms and everything was fine. No tears in the diaphragm or anything. any ideas on why it wont automatically open through the vacuum?
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    Here's a fun game the fintail is playing. I noticed a couple weeks ago both reverse lights are working. In the entire time I have owned the car only one has worked - but I just figured some wire is now making contact, and didn't pay it much attention. I drove the car yesterday, and now the left turn signal is working only about half the time, while the right operates as normal. I remember years ago when I was fooling around with it, I discovered depending on how the parking light bulbs are screwed in, you can either have both parking lights or both turn signals - but not both. Is there any reason for this, or just the fun of a car that will be hitting half a century old before I know it?
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    I remember when bulb sockets were either "in line" or "off set" and it was easy to twist in an "in line" bulb into an "off set" socket.

    The off set sockets and bulbs were usually double duty bulbs that provided tail and brake lights whereas the in line bulbs provided one function.

    Sometimes if the installation were mixed up, you could get one function or the other.

    Use steel wool in the sockets and if you discover two metal [non-permissible content removed], use a two [non-permissible content removed] bulb that is off set, one above the other on the other side of the bulb base.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    I'll have to take the bulbs out the next time I drive it. It's been many years since I looked at them - but they had been working fine up until yesterday. If the wrong bulb is set to a certain position or angle, could it function for one use but not both?

    I have to wonder if there is any connection to both reverse lights coming back to life. I have never touched those bulbs. The electrics of the car otherwise are very sound...I can let it sit for weeks and it will start up easily at the first turn of the key.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    could it function for one use but not both?

    Possibly, depends on the angle of the contacts of the bulb to the socket.

    Usually the backup lights have one purpose, one wire, one bulb [non-permissible content removed] and one socket contact. Perhaps the chuckholes you've encountered jostled the wires to be effective to the BU lights.

    Trace the wiring from the lights to the fuse box. While at the FB, check out the fuses & their holders for any contamination buildup.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    I'll try to get around to taking the old beast out on Sunday and playing around with it to see what happens. I remember years ago I discovered the weirdness, when I noticed a parking light was out...I looked at the bulb and it wasn't burnt out, and I then discovered if you put the bulb in one position, the signal works, in the other both parking lights work. I never drive it at night anymore, so the signal won.

    Maybe the Beirut-quality roads around here moved the bulb. The old car is much nicer on a rough road than my modern car though.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    I am pretty sure the problem is in the blinker module. I checked bulbs - all are correct and undamaged. No rust or other problems in the signal assemblies. And I have noticed that when the left signal isn't working, the right signal blinks at an irregular speed and brightness. I drove the car for maybe an hour and a half today,and the signals worked properly maybe half the time. Oh well.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    I think you're right about it being the blinking module. Happy T Day.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,175
    Thanks, and same to you ;)

    I think that part was used for many years, so I should be able to pick up another from a recycler for a few bucks and plug it in. If that doesn't do the trick...I'm just going to ignore it and call it a quirk. The car runs so well otherwise, and has been pretty good to me, I don't want to press my luck by going nuts over something small.
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    pvtbaileypvtbailey Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1954 Buick Special in good restorable shape. I have the original 264 engine, which is in need of many repairs and the original Dynaflow transmission. I was wondering what other engine/transmission combination would be compatible in the 54 special model. Would like to find something cheaper and more readily availiable to get the car running while rebuilding the original engine.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The B-O-P lineup (Buick Olds Pontiac) are engine-specific and there's nothing that's going to "bolt in". It's possible I think for you to use the 322 cid version of that engine, also available that year in the higher trim lines and models of Buick in 1954.

    If you mean putting an engine from another make in there, well you can put just about anything into any car if you are willing to deal with all the modifications.

    I think repairing your engine, or finding a used block and rebuilding that, would be far cheaper than fitting an engine and transmission from another type of car.

    Now if your plan is to make a street rod out of it, then the sky's the limit. You can get a Chevy crate engine, TH400 transmission, fancy floor shifter and all the rest that goes with it, but you're talking some serious money to build a street rod out of a car that few people build street rods out of.

    If the car is a 4D sedan, no harm in modifying it or installing another engine, but if it's a 2D HT or convertible, I wouldn't personally want to see anything but a Buick engine in there.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,690
    The B-O-P lineup (Buick Olds Pontiac) are engine-specific and there's nothing that's going to "bolt in". It's possible I think for you to use the 322 cid version of that engine, also available that year in the higher trim lines and models of Buick in 1954.

    Didn't B-O-P engines at least use the same bolt pattern for the transmission? I'm pretty sure they did in later years, but maybe not in 1954.

    Of course, even if another engine lines up to the transmission, you still have to deal with everything else that connects to the engine.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not to my knowledge, not in the 50s. You can't even bolt up a 60s or 70s Chevy trans to a Pontiac motor, even though it's the same basic trans.
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    hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Unlike in the latter '60s and after, when the GMs brands shared various transmissions, only Buick used Dynaflow in the late '40s and '50s. The only exception I know of is the short period after the big fire at the Hydramatic factory, when, as I recall, some Pontiacs were equipped with Powerglide and some Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs used Dynaflow.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,690
    Also back in the old days, sometimes the floor pans of similar cars would be different, to accommodate the different transmissions. For example, in 1961-64, cars that used the "slim jim" hydramatic had a smaller transmission hump than cars that used the older 4-speed hydramatic. I don't know how big the Dynaflow was in comparison, but I imagine its floopan was different, as well.

    Back in the 1950's though, car bodies sat on top of the frame like a truck, rather than between the frame rails, so maybe there's more room underneath, to accommodate a wider variety of transmissions?
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Buicks of that era used a torque tube driveshaft which is a fixed tube running from the back of the transmission (via a moveable joint or "torque ball) to the differential with a solid propellor shaft inside of it. While I've seen different engine /trans combos in some, mostly Chevy 350/400 turbo, the rear end also needs to be changed out for the tube driveshaft. Many find it's easier to put the original body on a different frame alltogether.
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    tbird8tbird8 Member Posts: 5
    I am looking to buy a 1966 thunderbird, would like a rag top, but will end up most likely with a landau. My question is, if i can not find color and options i would like to have, would it harm the resale value down the road if were to change the exterior color or interior as long as my choice was offered by ford on that car in that year? And what about adding options that the car dose not have,but were offered?
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think it would hurt value unless you were planning to have the car compete in serious car show judging--sometimes winning awards adds to value but you'll probably never win with a color change.

    The color change might turn off the occasional purist but these people never buy anything anyway. :shades:

    As an appraiser, I don't deduct value on a later T-Bird for a color change, as long as it is a bare metal respray. If you have a blue car with a red interior trunk lid and door jambs, well then, another story....

    On a '57 Bird with an E code, yeah, I might deduct value, as these are far more rare and valuable cars.

    And if you can add factory AC, all the better for value.
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    texasestexases Member Posts: 10,711
    Also, just make sure you've priced out what a color change will cost before you buy - done right, it is VERY expensive.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably $7500 for a high quality bare metal respray---$7500 and UP I mean.

    that means glass out, trim off, upholstery out, and maybe engine out--can't recall if that year's engine bay is black or color co-ordinated.

    Might be worth doing if you found a really nice car with a ruined paint job or something that say got rear-ended and that you could buy dirt cheap.
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    hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    What would a '66 Thunderbird Landau with a new $7,500 paint job be worth? Intuitively, I don't think it would be worth spending that kind of money on a '66 Bird, unless, maybe, if it were a convertible. Maybe. I say this only because the supply of this type of car will continue to shrink, and in, say, 20 years it'll be rare. By then, the collector market will be even more globalized, which should further increase demand. Also by then, all this stimulus money will likely have reduced the value of our currency, which would further support prices in nominal terms. That said, though, the future value issue should be a distant second consideration to how desirable this car is right now to a particular person.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd say it could be worth high teens in today's rather slumping market. A knock-out landau might break $20K but it would have to be quite a car top bottom under, over, inside, in all ways.

    A clean driver '66 Bird coupe with a decent "street level" paint job is worth about $10K.

    Any '66 Bird needing work dives in value considerably because these are expensive cars to restore.
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    hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    If we take a figure of $15,000 for a reasonably good but less than great one, I guess I'd be hesitant to spend $7,500 on a paint job. I'd only do it if I absolutely loved the car. I think the '66 Thunderbird is nice to look at, but it's not worth in the high teens to me. Although I like the styling, the main deficiencies for me are excessive weight, a suspension that's too soft and steering that's too light. These drawbacks don't matter all that much if you drive the car only occasionally, but I would never buy a car for just occasional use. Some people do, though.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Most of the owner's of really nice JetBirds that I've appraised have owned them a long long time.

    A $15K coupe would have to be pretty close to "great" in condition. Most of the ones I see have nice paint, pretty clean interiors, clean but less than spiffy engine bays and old unpainted/undetailed/unrebuilt undercarriages. That's a #3 car and not a $15,000 one.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Unless a person is REALLY attracted to these cars, I have to say that there are better choices, I happen to love the 1965-1966 T Birds especially the non landau models but I am well aware of their weaknesses too.

    They handle like an overloaded cruise ship. They are hard on suspension parts and tires, they wallow around corners and they have boatloads of electrical and vacuum leak problems.

    If I were tempted to buy one (and I could be), I would pick one that is already done. I would never change the color of a car and, no, I'm not a "purist", I just don't like the results unless HUGE money is spent and 7500.00 plus is way to much for a T-Bird that will never be worth big bucks.

    But, that's me.
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    hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I agree with what you said.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Purists buy what they want & usually have the means to support their choices.

    The restorer is honor bound to be dictated by the I D tag, buck tag, & any other factory labels on the car. To do otherwise is similar to not getting an A+ on the test.

    After factory "add ons" lead to missrepresentations, for example, today there are more 65 & 66 Mustang GT's than the factories built.

    Be correct and be cautious when restoring anything. ;)
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    it's your car, you can do what you want with it (and you take the consequences if there are any). Some factory colors are just ugly and i think warrant a change, and some factory colors are so commonplace that people rather enjoy seeing something different.

    As for originality, you'd be crazy for instance to keep the turboglide transmission in a '59 Impala or bias ply tires on an old T-Bird.

    What you don't want to do is start chopping into a car or welding on it. These I would agree are no-nos unless you are going full-bore custom.

    But in my book, anything "reversible" is fair game on an old car.

    And let's face it---many old cars are not historical monuments, they are just old cars. Some history is not important enough to preserve with intense accuracy. That's what "survivors" are for.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    My verbiage earlier pertains to restoring a classic that would qualify for insurance with Hagerty.

    Old plain cars are not included in my post as they are in yours so there is validity in what you say when it comes to the non classic clunker. With them, do anything you want.

    The 57 Bel Air is more of a classic than the 59 Impala so I would go original on the BA. The 58 Impala is more of a rare classic than the 59 so keeping it stock would increase its value as well.

    I question the value of adding an after market continental kit to anything.
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    tbird8tbird8 Member Posts: 5
    First thanks for everyone's advise. I intend to use this tbird as a weekend car and a vacation car, quick run to vegas or such. I drive a small Nissan for everyday and its just not roomie for a six hour drive. Is the 428 motor worth paying extra for? I realize it will need a rebuild and hardened valves and the trans gone through. I was told that a Edelbrock manifold, carb. and mild cam will give it a kick and still run smooth. What do you think of the 1967 to 1969 birds, I like them but was told they would never be worth much. I'm not a rich person and would like to lose as little as little as possible. Sounds like I better find a tbird that's close to what I want in color and options, a 7500.00 paint job is out of the question right now, I just want a really nice and dependable cruiser that can move out when given the spurs.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The Turboglide (1957-1961) just may have been the worst automatic transmission ever made. Most were converted to Powergldes when they failed as they always did!
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The 428 is an engine to stay away from. Not as durable as the 390's and nasty to work on under that crowded hood.

    Unless you really know what you are doing, I would proceed with great caution. These cars can be a nightmare and the 67-69's ae no better.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I wouldn't pay extra for the 428, no, but I would pay extra for factory AC.

    Yes you are correct, the 67-69 Birds will never be worth very much.

    RE: Hagerty --- Hagerty will insure ANYTHING that is remotely old, so I think the criteria for whether you "modify or don't modify" an old car has to rest on something else---probably market value is the most sober approach.

    Modify a $15,000 car? Sure, why not. After 45-50 years if it's only worth $15,000 nearly restored, you are not sitting on a gold mine there.

    Modify a $50,000 car? Probably not a smart idea, but people do it all the time, and if the mods are tasteful and reversible, the marketplace doesn't seem to mind too much. Just don't mess with vin and data tags, don't cut the car, and don't throw away what you took off.

    The idea of "purist" coupled with mass production American cars made in the 100s of thousands makes me chuckle a bit. There comes a point where a heated debate on the fender bolt markings and lengths on a Model A Ford becomes Theater of the Absurd.

    I can see big changes in people's attitudes about restoration. It seems we went from the "careless restoration" period of the 60s and 70s, to the fanatical authenticity and pampering of the 90s to the "get it in and drive it" attitude of 2009.

    A balanced middle ground if you will.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    There comes a point where a heated debate on the fender bolt markings and lengths on a Model A Ford becomes Theater of the Absurd.

    Saturday, July 18, Bellevue College, Bellevue, WA is when judged Mustangs undergo a very meticulus and exacting discernment of authenticity.

    Your attending the judging process would be educational, informative, & inspiring.

    Hose clamps, bumper bolts, & fender bolts are just a few items that can cost points. Striving for perfection is to be admired. :)
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,690
    I heard a story once about how a woman took her Mustang in to get new tires, and then had a fit because when they gave the car back to her, the little ponies on the hubcaps weren't lined up! :P
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