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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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There's no reason we couldn't build a 2.0L V8 engine. Oh, wait, Ferrari did that already in 1975. Before computers were being used to design them, or direct injection or... or... or... 180HP without even fuel injection. I hear it was very fun to drive.
I believe it was a 3L V8, and it was fun to drive once past 3K RPM, under that the webber carbs were on the rich side and the engine wasn't happy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_GT4
Only sold in Europe (as usual, the bums), but a sweet little ride.
The 308 GT4 did 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, while the 208 with 50 less HP(vs the U.S. model with smog) did it in 7.7. But there was a massive difference in fuel economy. Almost 10mpg in actual driving since that power difference really was only felt if you flogged the 308 hard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk4JWVLMvvM
The video quality is terrible, but it does have a lovely sound and handles, well, like a Ferrari should
Small engines don't have to be 3 and 4 cylinder lumps. IIRC, the smallest V8 engine you can buy (more for toys and go-karts) weights about 12 pounds and puts out 9hp.
I did like the sound of that little V8, but it actually sounded more like a 4 cyl to me, so I would be curious to see the firing order...I almost think that it is firing two cylinders at a time using a...what..180¼ crank??..thinkin' outloud here..
I may reserve the first one in USA (October if we're lucky?) .
Anyone got a deposit on one yet?
I'm very interested in getting a diesel engine car, I'm very much interested in the new BMW 3 series wagon and 3 series GT diesel when they make it over here, I just wish the prices of gas/fuel would stabilize some.
So for D2 this weekend, it ranged from $4.15, $4.09, 3.99, 3.89. I got a minus -. 10 cent discount per gal.
If I get off the beaten path, say wander into the high desert in NV, that dynamic has its own set of ranges . (NV's D2 tax is WAY cheaper than CA's and sales tax)
Another is because of the TDI's range, I can literally chose any of the above to... fuel not at all. :shades: This past trip, I got 31 mpg (R/T). So a 26.4 gal tank would let me range 818 miles.
The UK site has the ML250 Bluetec combined rating at 44.8 MPG that would be 37.3 MPG US. And 42 MPG US on the highway. I would love to get my hands on the steering wheel of that beauty.
It will take a mainstream model like that with a diesel and killer mpg to really gain momentum for diesel. Diesel Camry or Accord would really get diesel out there. We will see what the Mazda 6 does, but it is still kind of a bit player.
Good observations you all !
GLK 250, CRV, etc. The diesel's Passat and Jetta, JSW TDI (lots of etc's but older models) , really have put Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, Chrysler, et al. on notice regarding the TDI. If I had to guess, to really build the "perfect" motor, we are talking between 2.1 to 2.75 L for the balance between great mpg/torque, and up to twin turbos.
The over all truth: it has been logical and for a long time to have diesel options wherever there is a gasser, gasser hybrid option E85, natural gas, plug in hybrid, etc. One example is out of 270 M European passenger vehicles, fully 50% + PLUS are diesels. The US market is @ 258.4 M vehicles with less than 5% diesels.
Underlying all of this are the fact that Northern America is sooooooo overwhelmingly blessed with energy as to be beyond profound. Just the central CA portion is literally and figuratively BEYOND the Saudi Arabia of natural gas.
All the German diesel models are selling very well. As high as 80% in the VW Sportswagen. The Domestics and Japanese have dropped the ball. Chrysler is going to try and catch up with the Jeep GC and small Ram diesels. Not sure what the holdup is on the Cruze diesel. Honda blew it 5 years ago when they could not make their diesel clean enough for CARB. The CRV diesel sold in the EU is not that great for mileage. Not in a league with VW or MB.
Honda CR-V Fuel Consumption :: 2.2 i-DTEC EX Auto
Urban Fuel
34.4 mpg
Extra Urban
47.1 mpg
Combined
41.5 mpg
Mercedes Benz M-Class Fuel Consumption :: ML 250 BlueTEC SE
Urban Fuel
38.7 mpg
Extra Urban
50.4 mpg
Combined
44.8 mpg
Maybe Mercedes is having second thoughts about this vehicle for the US market?
I think if you're willing to compromise on power and handling to achieve outstanding fuel economy for a decent-sized SUV that will maintain value, then there you go....
If the GLK250 can do high 30s in combined driving, it will be a winner, with low 40s on the highway...
BMW hasn't officially released MPG # for it's 2.1 diesel yet, but reports are 2 series wagon should get high 30's easily on the highway..
It will be interesting to see what other Asian car manufacture will release a diesel in the US..
I think MB MIGHT be able to get way with greater than entry level pricing. I think if they do it that way, they will bank on the aspirational aspects of the brand. In other words, basic (upscaling) customer training. :confuse:
Yes, I think VW understood the concept, AND more importantly demonstrated IT with the execution of the de-contented Jetta, after it was pounded into them for literally decades (by the US markets) , in contrast to Audi/Porsche/MB/BMW/et al. Secondarily, they took a lot of heat/gas from so called "loyal VW cultists". They were vindicated by not only better subsequent (de-contended) Jetta sales @ lower/affordable price points, but with an additional almost total hit with the launching of the American PASSAT: assembled in the USA !!!
I am not sure they have ever considered it for the US market. For me driving mostly highways, 369 ft lbs of torque is plenty. More than their V6 standard engine. Better for long uphill runs than the gasser.
It should be a quite a bit less than the RX hybrid and beat the socks off mileage wise. It will likely out handle the Lexus as well. For those that want a city SUV for racing from the stoplights the RX is probably the best choice. Everything else the MB diesels should satisfy.
I am actually getting a lot of confirmation (on the road) that a lot of folks (one might encounter on the road) really are either surprised @ or do not understand the issue of turbo diesel torque.
On higher altitude mountain legs, longer UPGRADEs (2,000 to 5,000 ft): two Corvettes (C5/6 @ different times) saw fit to pass me. I hate to say this, but I really only woke up to them being Corvettes after they passed me in the #2/2 lanes.
Unbeknownst to them:
1. I had 5 folks in the vehicle
2. app 1000 #'s of GEAR
3. rpm were in sleeps ville
4. getting 29 mpg.
Both seemed a bit confused , as I (did not change speeds but) kept up with them (4/5 car lengths behind) approaching 7,386 ft. Down grade was another hoot, but you were talking upgrade.
The concept of "small + luxury" is an interesting marketing challenge. To offset the visual problem of size, which clashes with the problem of price (in other words, you expect some small things to be costly, but not so much cars), then you have to dangle some other perk.
in the case of the MINI, a not-so-cheap small car, the perk was "cute and fun to drive".
So what's MB's perk going to be to convince someone to pay a substantial sum of money for a crossover of modest size? (probably more than $40,000 out the door).
It's heavy at 4,250 lbs, so it'll feel "solid". Performance is very frisky 0-60, nonetheless, due to the massive torque.
Perhaps the "me first" aspect, since the Q3 and X3 won't have a diesel just yet?
It's the same price as the gas (which in my area anyway, still sell like hotcakes) but gets significantly better mileage.
The crossover is just about the perfect vehicle for the 60+ boomer crowd. If they retire with a decent income, they may want to go for the luxury without spending a fortune at the gas pump every 300 miles.
It's got to be more about luxury than economy to buy this vehicle.
So for example (I dont know what the GLK250 gasser/diesels gets) VWT 30/20 mpg = 3,333/5,000 gals =1,667 gals over 100,000 miles. Right now, 1,667 more gal @4 per gal = $6,668/10 years/10k miles per year= $667 per year more. Over 10 years time the diesel's resale is/has been @ a premium to the gasser.
Not a diesel issue, but MB has to sell on their brand I think. The problem is that BMW and Audi are hurting their luxury sales and even "regular" VWs have grabbed some of their potential "performance" market. I bet Dieter will be gone this year.
Don't you get the B class with diesel already? I ran into a couple with a MB B CDI. They said they were from Canada. Though the plates looked European. They were loving the little thing. Looked like a smaller version of the GLK.
I've seen plenty of these in Seattle, with BC plates.
I think there are 5 different E-class diesel engines in Germany.