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Pontiac GTO
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Comments
(Like the new Malibu will suffer.) Better to get full list on a model with a tight supply.
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=- - 4005&useraccessmode=success#disclaimer
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
For cryin' out loud there are some idiots at GM. Why, Why, Why not build the GTO with a more aggressive look! What is the point of the low budget look?! How could they mess this up? HOW? HOW? HOW?
I gotta go, I am simply fuming with the way GM dropped the ball...again. They should just stick to building trucks and the Vette because none of their cars inspire excitement, especially the new GTO!!!
AAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!
JQ3
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I thought they ruined the first GTO too. The damn thing looked just like a LeMans...
I had been seriously considering the GTO, but since I found out how they shrunk the trunk (for the exhaust, gas tank safety, or whatever), I have had second thoughts. I need a good-sized trunk, and the GTO just doesn't cut it, especially when you consider that it is NOT a small car. Oh, well...
"The problem is that GM has some sort of agreement with the UAW about importing complete cars from overseas (i.e., non-UAW/CAW countries). So they're holding down the number so as to not tick off the union."
There are also U.S. import restrictions on importing assembled vehicles from other countries. The reason many foreign automobile manufacturers assemble vehicles in North America is to get around these tarrifs and restrictions. Since this car is being built outside North America, there is a chance it will be imposed to these types of restrictions.
We now have a domestic automaker producing a car that is:
A) Reaonably priced (compared to anything with the same room, interior quality and performance)
Roomy enough for 4 full sized adults
C) Styled for adults who want performance in a car that doesn't scream out "I'm going through a midlife crisis".
The original GTO was never a great styling masterpiece. When it was introduced in 1964, it was just an option on a bland midsize Pontiac car. When GM introduced the flowing C pillar design of the late 60's, the GTO followed. Sure, compared to cars today that are styled after a used bar of soap, the 60's cars are dramatic and sylish. But back then they weren't all that.
I'd like to see a row of GM cars (LeMans, GTO, Cutlass, Chevelle, etc.) with all their badges and identifying stripes removed. Then I'd like to take a bunch of people by and see if they can identify which car is which. I bet you over 75% of the people wouldn't be able to.
Because they were all bland midsize GM coupes back then.
How is the new GTO really any different?
Hot engine + Bland midsize car = GTO
Always has been. Always will be.
I could go for a few more curves, but I'd much rather be short a few than have too many. Yes, the "hey look at me" styling of previous Pontiac performance and some current imports is something I'm happy to avoid.
I love the idea of a large comfortable car with a mean V8 that can roast the tires, and pummel the latest batch of over-hyped V6's. All the while still handling extremely well and delivering good fuel economy too.
Lastly, the article says the last GM car to not have the name of the company on it (ex: "Pontiac") was the Oldsmobile Aurora. The 2000 and 2001 Catera models do not have the word "Cadillac" written anywhere on the car. So that's 2!
Just small corrections, but I had to voice them. Let's just hope the GTO doesn't have the horrible initial quality that the 1997 and 1998 Catera suffered from.
Jeff
Tampa, FL
2000 Cadillac Catera Sport
If the GTO was to fail, it obviously wouldn't be for that reason. But, sending over a ten-year chassis design might be a problem. Who knows?
Certainly, GM could put a little more effort into R&D, and come up with something fresh. However, rebadging models seems to have worked for GM for 40 years, so why fix it if it ain't broke?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Nothing a little aftermarket can't cure.
IMHO, the GTO will not age well. Have you seen the older Grand Prix's? Talk about looking outdated! Some of you accept the styling of the GTO and I totally respect your opinions. But, as for me I'll take ctennis3811's advice, "DON'T BUY IT!!!" For those of you who defend its bland, generic and cheap looks...GO BUY IT!!
If the General did a total redesign instead of an update of a current design, I doubt they could have hit that price point.
Not all old GTo's were hot.
Very cool car, just not as sporty as we remember them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2444114059&category=7244
Although, I can see how one could wish that Pontiac had showcased a new design direction with it's new halo model. Instead it looks like, well a member of Pontiac's current model range. Which is fine, but a little unexciting.
I guess we will have to wait for the Soltice to see the new direction of Pontiac design.
Given those additions (which were more common than not on the old ones I don't think many would consider a '68 GTO coupe plain, then or now.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The new GTO can have wheel, spoilers, hood scoops, added and look as muscular as any older GTO.
In the same way the Tempest/Lemans had things added to make it look sportier.
2nd of all, that '68 is NOT plain in my book. Just look at that hood. Can you add something like that to the new one? Sure. I could also cram an LS6 into a hyundai and spank this GTO. But why spend that kind of time and money when I could get something else straight from the factory that can do the job? If I gotta look at a new car and think about what I'll do to it BEFORE I even buy it, then its not worth buying, in my opinion.
and 3rdly, I think the complaints about the new one are more to the fact that it looks like a plain old grand prix, not necessarily that it in itself is plain. It just does nothing to distinguish itself from the other Pontiacs on the showfloor.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Thought you guys would be interested in looking at a low option, plain jane survivor.
I felt the overall tone of my post was positive for both the new and old.
The GTO has been my favorite musclecar since I was 12. Tried to buy my neighbor's '70 Judge in 1983 and my next door neighbor's '72 GTO in 1980.
I sometimes wonder why I continue to participate in these forums.
That's what Pontiac did. They originially took the "plain Jane" LEmans and John DeLorean stuffed a "honkin", high output V8 in it. That was the birth of the muscle car.
Fast forward to today. Pontiac takes a plain Jane, kind of Grand Prix sort of car and stuffs a "honkin" 'vette engine in it.
Same principle....same result!
The 64-73's looked like the rest of the LeMans's, which in fact looked like "any other Pontiac". (not counting the Judges).
b4z - you aren't being "criticized" for it, but if that's how you feel and you want to post your thoughts without any feedback whatsoever, then why DO you participate in forums?? That IS kind of the whole point, is it not?? I thought it was great that you posted that link. I love seeing it, but you also said you thought it should shut people up about the looks of the new one. That ain't gonna happen.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Because they can!
In all seriousness, I would have loved some styling cues from the "old" Lemans/GTO. But, the whole "retro" thing is a hit or miss gambit (hit = PT Cruiser, miss = Thunderbird) Fact is, from the get go Pontiac (more to the point, Lutz) said they wanted to revive the spirit of the original. I think that's what they did.
They took an old idea, updated it with today's modern design and power advances and brought out a car that, if not everybody's cup of tea, is one of the performance stars in all of "cardom".
Come to think of it, they did the same exact thing they did over 3 decades ago with the original.
These clues were actually subtle. At a glance
many would think they were looking at a LeMans (which like the Goat could be plain or quite deluxe).
Except for the wing (which BTW I don't like) the
new Goat could use a little more differentiation from the garden variety GPs and Bonnies.
B4z, I misinterpreted the term "plain" in your post. In fact it is correct to say that that was a "plain Jane GTO for it's era.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Modern design? hardly. That design is already 7 model years old (body-wise). That's ancient in terms of today's constantly evolving marketplace and fickle consumers.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
i would expect them to start arriving in the dealerships in the next 2 weks.
If I were GM's design chief I'd tell my GTO guys to take a lesson from Pininfarina. In 1968 they figured out away to show the Ferrari look in a new way without using cliched "surface excitement.
They were leapfrogging ahead whilst across the ocean GM's guys were copying the '62 Ferrari GTO
(Corvette C3)
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I would love to see a four door version. A Pontiac giving the big boy sedans from BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar a run for their money, I love it. Of course that would hurt sales for the CTS-V so it will never happen.
Interesting comparo...
Length:
GTO — 189.8
CTS-V — 194.5
Width:
GTO — 72.5
CTS-V — 70.6
Weight:
GTO — 3725
CTS-V — 3847
Horsepower:
GTO — 350
CTS-V — 400
Torque:
GTO — 365 lbs-ft
CTS-V — 395 lbs-ft
0-60:
GTO — 5.3
CTS-V — 4.6
Price:
GTO — 31k
CTS-V — 49k
Old Omega platform vs. new with same basic powerplant (minus tuning). Seems like GM has done a pretty good job keeping these cars different enough in performance to keep the CTS-V looking like the top dog in the range.
There are so close that it would be a perfect comparison test.
Oh yeah, the BMW is $70,000!!
I'm really looking forward to the feel of those seats... a real 2 + 2
rctennis3811 - Not sure many folks here "hate" it. I think its more to the point of not loving it. Its just not the kind of car that makes me think "wow! I GOTTA have that!!"
b4z - i was just reading about the 6 in autoweek. somebody already borrowed it in my office, though, so this is from memory... but they mentioned how, to get it down to that weight, the frame is aluminum and the hood and trunk are plastic! Really doesn't give me much confidence. Ok, so even if the 6 stands up in a crash, can you imagine the repair bill?? "sorry, sir, we can't rework the body, we need to buy a whole new one." Yikes!
deadphoenix - not everyone likes new cars with retro style.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Ford is hardly doing it right. The Thunderbird has been canceled due to poor sales.
Length is 190 inches weight is 3725lbs and 0-60 is 5.5 secs with 325 hp.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
As a previous owner of a '67 GTO (spent every dime I had at the time I bought it used), you wouldn't have been able to tell it from a run of the mill Lemans if it weren't for the GTO emblems and the hood scoop.
I would have liked a bit of "retro" in the new GTO. Maybe some "slotted" rear lights (like in the '66 GTO) or the big dual "ovoid" grill treatment like in the '67. Maybe even the flat real wood dash like they originally had.
retro styling is a tough nut in many cases. As mentioned before, Ford "could have" had a hit with the Thunderbird. In fairness to the Thunderbird, I think the styling was OK. Where Ford got into trouble was with its driving dynamics and the hit and miss interior. I wanted to buy one. Having a test drive, it really didn't feel very sporty. Plus, it was a little "weak kneed" in the performance dept.
That's something that won't plague the GTO from what I read.
As Q pointed out, there are a bunch of good cars that are playing in that space today like the 350Z, RX8, G35c, etc. They are all roughly in the same price range, too. That wasn't the case when the original GTO prowled the streets.
I do want to see the GTO succeed. Only time will tell.....
They can ask whatever they want but they are sacrificing long term business relationships for short term gain.
Thunderbird: $4000 market adjustment.
Status: production ending.
Ford Focus SVT: $3995 market adjustment.
status: production ending.
Hope Pontiac dealers can get the dollar signs out of their eyes and don't kill the goat that laid the golden egg.
I still don't really get the Grand Prix comparison... the only thing that even remotely resembles Grand Prix is the front grill shape. And that's got to be there, since it's a Pontiac trademark! Truth is, that's the only significant styling difference between the GTO and the Monaro. I hardly think the Aussies styled their Monaro to look like a Pontiac Grand Prix. Also, the 2004 Monaro is only three model years old. I know the chassis started life as the Omega/Catera, but in this highly updated incarnation has few parts that have not been replaced or altered.