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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Remember that when toyota started its TQM in Japan, workers were stopping the line many times a day, slowing down production. But eventually they earned a high quality reputation, and the lines were not stopped as frequently anymore.
Meybe Ford is finally going though some quality improvements on its own.
I can add "concerns" to that list as well.
I'm concerned that maybe the leather is too slippery.
I'm concerned that maybe the carpet in the trunk shouldn't be as good as it is.
I'm concerned that maybe there's no enough colors to choose from.
I'm concerned that they sky might fall.
I'm concerned about world hunger...
See what I mean ? There's always concerns, and they are addressed immediately before being shipped. If not, they are parked in a lot and the concern is rectified before being shipped out. Last "concern" dealt with having to reprogram (Flash) the computer software, so a number of units were parked at a lot awaiting.
Compare this to my initial 2000 LS, which requires a software "re-flash" and had a TSB issued for it, after I took delivery of it.
In good old US UAW plants the shop guys are outspoken and willing to share their opinions.
The Japanese based US plants hide their dirty laundry better on startup issues is the main difference.
I'd rather Ford hold the produc to iron out the bugs rather than do it after they've sold a lot of them. Every new auto design is going to have its startup issues, and this being a completely new vehicle for Ford except for the basic engine, you can expect more than with just a freshening.
The 500 has much larger trunk; folding rear & front passenger seat backs; sits up a little higher; a little more head room. For my needs, the extra cargo space does not offset the other weaknesses versus the Avalon.
My last 4 vehicles have been Fords - 3 Taurus and an F150 - so I was leaning toward the 500. It's a fine automobile, a lot of car for the money. But I'm concerned about quality/reliability with such a new model.
Now I'll have to decide whether to wait for the upcoming '05 Avalon or try to get a deal on an '04.
As for me, I will take the AWD on the Ford and the CVT and the much larger interior and trunk, larger dealer network and easier availablity of parts and service. You might also want to compare prices of comparably equipped units.
While the 500 is a very nice vehicle, it's almost as if they took tracing paper and copied the Passat from VW. If they were going so far as to create the "Ford" version of the Passat, they could have at least copied the antenna as well. Is Ford really that cheap to have a front mounted antenna on the 500? It really takes away from what is overall a nicely copied design.
Buying my VW Passat (v6 w/5spd manual) was overall a very good decision. I did think about another Maxima, but wanted something a bit different. I actually went to my local Ford dealer and parked my Passat next to the 500 and they were a spitting image of each other; with the exception of the 500 having a taller roof line and that unsightly front mounted antenna.
I will be curious to see how the 500/FS/Montego will hold up, but with Nissan, Toyota and Honda offering better build quality, reliability and resale values; I have my doubts for the Ford/Mercury duo.
As for resemblance to the Passat, you should know where the chief designer of Ford Motor Company came from. Audi. Controlled by? You guessed it. VW. Still, the resemblance is not quite as strong, TO ME, as it is to you.
I've owned Maximas. I am not NEARLY as impressed with their reliablity as you are. You see, I can tell transmission stories, too. They are about a Maxima with less than 33,000 miles.
And, according to the most recent projected residuals, the Five Hundred retains MORE of its value after three years than will either Maxima or Altima (but not Accord).
Just as you wouldn't buy a Five Hundred, I wouldn't think of buying a Maxima or Altima. But you don't see my posting in the Nissan forums. With all due respect, I must ask you, why are you posting here? Are you trying to warn us? Or are you feeling just a teeny, tiny bit of insecurity at not considering the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego/Ford Freestyle?
johni, next Avalon is a new model, but shouldn't have any start-up production problems. It's virtually identical to the current Camry.
500 will take a giant leap forward in resale compared with Taurus. but to say it's going to leap over all except Accord is premature. This is what I've read: after 3 years, Accord (55%), Altima (52%), Camry (50%), 500 (48%). But big improvement, 500 is going to be in the playpen of its competitors, Taurus now is in the low 30's.
http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2004055bfull.gif
The year prior to the S40 being released, Volvo rated in the top 3 in initial quality, to show an example. And now with the new S40, things should be back to normal.
Turbos haven't possed an issue with them. They are actually very reliable in the industry. And they have experience with both light, and high pressure turbo's.
LR issues stem prior to Ford buying them from BMW. Things didn't improve much when BMW aquired them, and redesigned the Range Rover. BMW...same one that has had 13+ recalls on the X5. So the Range Rover has definately received it's fair share of issues. There's a bunch of new products (with new and reliabily tested engineering) that will debut from LR soon enough. BMW didn't have SUV experience, or the resources to improve LR, hence, why they sold it to Ford.
The S80 with the a 3.0L would require some major sub-frame reconfiguration. Since it uses an I-6, it was built to allow sufficient space for crash protection. And only a 4 speed automatic fits with the I-6 and Turbo... Placing a 3.0L in it, would equal, the 500 (which was engineered to allow for a bigger V6, as oppose to an Inline.
Plus Ford doesn't wish to interchange engines between them. Volvo is working on a 4.4L V8 that will debut in the Xc90, and will eventually be implemented into the S80.
To answer your question as to why I'm posting on here, it's just like everyone else. We're here to talk to about the 500/Montego/FS. Please don't take this as Ford "bashing". I'm simply voicing my distrust of the Ford brand. Personally, I don't see what all the hype is over the car. It’s a new Ford product that is attempting to “win-back” customers who have gone onto foreign brands.
True, it is a risk when it comes to the quality, resale and reliability of the 500/Montego/FS but given Ford's previous track record with these issues; it's anyone’s guess.
While the design mimics the Passat, for Ford; it is a clean design given what they currently offer. The only other Ford to actually have some style was the 1996 Taurus. The design did mimic the Infiniti J30, but at that time, there was no other domestic car like it.
As a current student of the Art Center and in my junior year of auto design, I am aware that J. Mays is currently at FoMoCo. I applaud Ford for bringing him over.
As far as the previous history w/the Maxima, I still have my 87 and it currently has 237k on it and it's still going. The only thing I've done outside of regular maintenance is have the transmission replaced as a precaution due the amount of miles. In addition to the 87, we also still have the 91 and the 98; both with well over 100k and NO problems along with the 2004.
When my parents bought my Passat in 2002, the 500 were still in the testing phase so there is NO insecurity at not considering the 500.....I'm very happy with my VW.
Mark
Take a look at a few posts from Future Ford forums if you like reading up on a few future products coming up, like the Fusion, Mark LT, Mariner, etc.
john cline ii, five hundred miles from being responsive?
Luckily the name hasn't been changed to Frown Victoria.
Notice how the 500 is classified as a midsize, whereas it really borders on full size. Guess no one wants to upset the crown jewels....
If I don't get a build date soon, I may decide instead to buy a most honorable Subaru 2.5 turbo wagon. I don't want to, but I can only wait so long. After all, the old Impala has 170,000 + miles on it and these 1200 mile round trips that I often take are beginning to worry me just a bit...
I know older Subaru's had defroster and some of you guys can back me up here, i think rust problems too, ala mazda.
Anywhay, why would you go for a blown 2.5 when you can get a naturally aspirated 3? The Five-Hundred is cooler than any wagon, standing out or not. and would you realy take the Subaru gimmiky interrior over the classy wood paneling and thought out design on the 500?
And hey, the 500 is a Ford, red white and blue American Sedan that the company needs to sell badly, and is a perfect fit for anyone who needs a practical sedan not interested in going fast.
I have criticised it myself for not having xenon and nav, but its still way better than a WAGON!
I bet you'd get some positive comments from anyone you'd take on a ride with you
Guys we can help johnclineii right? Lets find out why Ford can't get the ordering system straight, meybe the moderator here has some input, and ford employees here?
Its your money, but I'd rather take the bus than drive a wagon, but its just me Good luck with your descision but i can tell so far, from what we have seen and read about this car leads me to believe that if your not interested in the latest technology (aside from transmission tech) or drag racing that this car is worth waiting for...
Hell I'd get it myself if it had RWD, wood paneling on doors, Xenon, Nav and a manumatic (Could you imagine a maual shifting auto with six speeds!)... Oh ya, and at least 250 hp... Sry lol im not in the cars market but like what i see and wish ford luck with sales...
Or does it not make much difference in typical driving conditions?
Thanks for the help.
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~shreeram/news_items/stability_control.htm- l
AWD and traction control do help maintain control but it is more useful in situations with reduced traction, ice, snow, sand, and gavel, etc. because they redirect engine power when wheel slippage is detected.
There are some recent studies which indicate that stability control systems can greatly, I think it's by about 30%, reduce the risk of single vehicle accidents, I'd definitely recommened it if it's an option. but personally I wouldn't make an ultmate decision about whether or not I bought a vehicle based on its availability. The studies compared only cars that are currently equipped with such systems, mostly high performance cars, and from personal experience I'd say that keeping driving speeds within safe limits for the prevailing road conditions and paying attention are far more important. I've unfortunately been in a couple of single vehicle accidents in my life, one involved my car being flipped over, I received only a badly bruised elbow and ego, and I doubt that stability control, per se, would have prevented either one, though in one case ABS would almost certainly have helped.
Back to your question: AWD with traction control, or FWD and stability control? It depends on your driving style and the sort of weather you are likely to encounter. If you live somewhere very snowy, especially if it's hilly too, I'd get AWD. If you live in the south and like driving fast FWD with stability control is probably going to serve you better, of course AWD with stability control would be the best option.
Traction Control: Opps, be nice, don't do it again.
AWD: Actively gets you out of a possible boo-boo.
So is 7.5 seconds slower in a Ford than in a Buick? Has GM developed some new technology that alters the passage of time? Or maybe the guys at MT should quit playing lacrosse and read their own magazine!
Of course this is MT, so it's probably just a typo...
So far I've seen two samples: one Montego and one Five Hundred, both base models. The Montego had good exterior panel alignment for the most part, especially around the hood and doors. The trunk was average. The Ford was good around the doors as well, but had a misaligned hood. It usually takes a couple months production to get this dialed in, so it may get better. The paint on both cars displayed an average amount of orange peel for a car in this price range.
The only other issues I noticed are the interior door latch handles (which look like they came from the same parts bin as the '05 Mustang) don't line up in their recesses very well, and the carpet is cut close to the front side of the front seats, especially on the passenger side. The raw edge of the carpet is visible if the seat is pushed all the way back.
Other than that they look pretty good.
Mark
Mark
Is Ford perhaps working on a heavy duty use 500 ala taxi or police version?
This will keep CV for strict rental and police duty...for awhile....
Many goodies debuting in the next few years. Personally I would like to go back to something with 2 doors, not hardcore as Mustang, but Cougar possibility. This whole "OH we want to go in your car" senario is getting annoying.
Since the LS replacement will run AWD on a P2 platform, I'm content over the AWD issue. I myself have wanted to go into AWD for quite sometime, unfortuantely there's never been an alternative. Also looking at the Volvo C70 replacement, and possible C90 Super Coupe. which should address all my concerns.
I have around 2 years left on my 2nd LS before I hit 100K mark and trade again, therefore I'm hoping there's better options than last time around.
I doubt a Montego will grace my garage, but I'm very interested in it from a progress in concept perspective. The Freestyle could find its way into my fleet someday. I've about decided that SUVs are perfect for everything, now that they come in so many flavors, I doubt I'll go back to a regular sedan, but who knows. If so, it would be more in the Town Car theme...
I myself can't deal with an SUV. Mainly because of how aggresive I drive, dislike having extra people in the car, do not wish to carry much cargo, and like to make it known "Single and loving it, no responsibilities for me" hehe...
Unfortunately sales are dwindling and the market is fragmented, therefore don't be surprised if numerous coupes are built off exsisting modified sedans, longer refreshining cycles, or killed off totally.
Now, the P2 platform can be modified for a Coupe structure if need be, although it'll add some weight.
Starting in 91 we saw a true Cat. Fully independent rear suspension, H type front suspension. Adjustable shocks. But the 91 series did needed a stiffer unibody.
But we will most likey see a FWD with a 3.5 with sales at about 40k units.