Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

dino001 · September 2016

fintail said:
However, the Phaeton is alive and well in Germany and other markets.

Didn't know that. Checked the German site - indeed, it is.

graphicguy · September 2016

I like my son's '16 GTI, a lot. They have become quite nice, well built, quick, sporty, nice materials, etc. I have only looked at A/S3s and have not driven one. So, can't comment on that count. However, given the price difference, I'd be might tempted to stick with a a GTI or Golf R given their similarities to the Audis and their price advantages.

stickguy · September 2016

I like the GTI too, with just a few quibbles particular to me, and my needs. Which is why I would actually be interested in the WB now, since it really is a bit of a "baby GTI" for people that don't need the last 2-3 10ths (that would probably never use anyway).

plus, you can always make select upgrades over time to make a stealth one (chip the engine, throw on new springs/wheels) if you really need to. The only thing I would really miss is plaid seats, but i wouldn't get them on a GTI anyway, since I want a moonroof.

28firefighter · September 2016

For whatever it's worth, I think the replacement for the GTI will likely be an S3/S4 - but that is at least 3-4 years out, if not longer. My plan is to payoff the GTI this fall and then buy a CPO X3/Q5/RDX equivalent for the wife that will last us through the daycare years.

andres3 · September 2016

stickguy said:
I like the GTI too, with just a few quibbles particular to me, and my needs. Which is why I would actually be interested in the WB now, since it really is a bit of a "baby GTI" for people that don't need the last 2-3 10ths (that would probably never use anyway).

plus, you can always make select upgrades over time to make a stealth one (chip the engine, throw on new springs/wheels) if you really need to. The only thing I would really miss is plaid seats, but i wouldn't get them on a GTI anyway, since I want a moonroof.

My issue is I like the plaid cloth but prefer an upgraded Stereo system. Impossible, although someone might have mentioned the new performance pack might solve that?

driver100 · September 2016

That steering in the Chryco 300 felt pretty dangerous today. It happens about every 5 miles, I am driving along and then the car wants to veer in the opposite direction....only lasts about 4 or 5 seconds. I have to hang onto the wheel tight with 2 hands, and pull it back on track. It feels like the wheels got caught in a streetcar track and want to go on their own.

I switched the 300 for an X1. Talk about firm steering....feels like there is no power steering, but, I am getting used to it after the loosey goosey 300. Annoying that I can't switch off the off on ignition. Interior is pretty basic, but, the X1 is solid, it is engineered right, it feels light years ahead of the 300 - and it has 28k miles on it compared to 6k on the 300.

Discount thinks it is low on power steering fluid....but, only 6k miles!

houdini1 · September 2016

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:
I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here
Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.
fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.
And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:

Take, for instance, the tiny European city runabout known as the Aston Martin Cygnet. In its most basic version it sells at more than $45,000. The car is actually made by Toyota and a Toyota version (identical except for some interior accoutrements) can be had for less than $17,000. On an apples-to-apples comparison, Which? reckons the average price discrepancy is more than $31,000. Thus those who prefer Aston Martin’s badge pay an outrageous three times more for exactly the same Toyota engineering!

Don't forget that Mercedes is just a glorified Smart Car !

driver100 · September 2016

houdini1 said:

"houdini1
Don't forget that Mercedes is just a glorified Smart Car !

That is funny.

Seriously though, I have had a rental Fusion, Cruze, Chrysler 300, BMW iX, and I have no idea how I will last until December without my Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! (sorry whoever was offended by using that name)

nyccarguy · September 2016

graphicguy said:
I like my son's '16 GTI, a lot. They have become quite nice, well built, quick, sporty, nice materials, etc. I have only looked at A/S3s and have not driven one. So, can't comment on that count. However, given the price difference, I'd be might tempted to stick with a a GTI or Golf R given their similarities to the Audis and their price advantages.

It's hard to argue against a GTI, especially at the price point of the 2017 Sport. As far as public roads go, sure 292 hp (in the R) is better than the "standard" 220 hp but I'd have a hard time justifying the price difference between a GTI Sport & an R. Even with AWD & the other goodies. Then I'd have to price out an S3 vs. Golf R and drive them back to back. It might come down to the sales experience. The R usually commands close to sticker while an S3 can be had for a discount that would bring its selling price closer to the R.

driver100 · September 2016

"houdini1

Don't forget that Mercedes is just a glorified Smart Car !

And Fiat is a: Alfa Romeo, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Ram and SRT.

berri · September 2016

Driver, I think the 300 has drive by wire, so you were smart to get out of it since it could be warning of a computer system failure. Incidentally, a United Airbus had an issue like that which ran it off the taxiway in Denver the other day.

fintail · September 2016

I forget if I asked, which rental agency? X1s are uncommon in fleets on this continent.

driver100 said:
That steering in the Chryco 300 felt pretty dangerous today. It happens about every 5 miles, I am driving along and then the car wants to veer in the opposite direction....only lasts about 4 or 5 seconds. I have to hang onto the wheel tight with 2 hands, and pull it back on track. It feels like the wheels got caught in a streetcar track and want to go on their own.

I switched the 300 for an X1. Talk about firm steering....feels like there is no power steering, but, I am getting used to it after the loosey goosey 300. Annoying that I can't switch off the off on ignition. Interior is pretty basic, but, the X1 is solid, it is engineered right, it feels light years ahead of the 300 - and it has 28k miles on it compared to 6k on the 300.

Discount thinks it is low on power steering fluid....but, only 6k miles!

driver100 · September 2016

berri said:
Driver, I think the 300 has drive by wire, so you were smart to get out of it since it could be warning of a computer system failure. Incidentally, a United Airbus had an issue like that which ran it off the taxiway in Denver the other day.

I forgot about that. It did go through my mind that if it was ps fluid, it would be more constant. I thought at one point I should call and have them pick up the car....if I hit a car or someone because of this steering it could be my fault for driving it knowing it wasn't right.....and I would have to prove there was a malfunction.

Another thought was, I don't know how much this car is worth, say $38k, I think I would rather pay say $45k for a 328, A4 or C Class that I know has a much better chance of being designed right. I have heard people balk at paying $45k for a car....but, at least you aren't throwing away $38k on something not really made right.

driver100 · September 2016

fintail said:
I forget if I asked, which rental agency? X1s are uncommon in fleets on this continent.

driver100 said:
That steering in the Chryco 300 felt pretty dangerous today. It happens about every 5 miles, I am driving along and then the car wants to veer in the opposite direction....only lasts about 4 or 5 seconds. I have to hang onto the wheel tight with 2 hands, and pull it back on track. It feels like the wheels got caught in a streetcar track and want to go on their own.

I switched the 300 for an X1. Talk about firm steering....feels like there is no power steering, but, I am getting used to it after the loosey goosey 300. Annoying that I can't switch off the off on ignition. Interior is pretty basic, but, the X1 is solid, it is engineered right, it feels light years ahead of the 300 - and it has 28k miles on it compared to 6k on the 300.

Discount thinks it is low on power steering fluid....but, only 6k miles!

It was Discount. It just happened that when I called in they had the X1 getting washed and almost ready to go. I imagine they didn't want to fool around when there was a steering problem. The guy said I see you had an E400, so I can give you this X1.
No blind spot warning and no rear camera, but, it is solid as a rock.

snakeweasel · September 2016

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:
I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here
Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.
fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.
They are also slightly de-contented Lamborghini though. Oh yeah, and 4-wheel Ducati's

Well since both Lamborghini and Ducati both have long histories before being acquired by Audi and they have their DNA going back before Audi it is far less so than an Audi built with VW DNA.

snakeweasel · September 2016

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:
I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here
Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.
fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.
They are also slightly de-contented Lamborghini though. Oh yeah, and 4-wheel Ducati's
Come on, the TT is just a dressed up beetle.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/audi-tt-rs-receives-substantial-performance-boost/

I wonder how much Audi will price that Beetle! Will pretty much outrun anything. I'm told the TT is not an uncommon daily driver in Germany.

Not sure but I do know that the TT started out with a Beetle frame, an Beetle engine and a Beetle transmission. Basically Audi changed the body panels and spruced up the interior. Not sure how much of the Beetle the current TT retains but in the beginning it was just a Beetle with plastic surgery.

snakeweasel · September 2016

qbrozen said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:
And you hit on one reason that I tend to shy away from luxury cars.

EXCEPT, there are those that are totally different. For example, Maximas and Altimas are FWD and therefore no Infiniti equivalent. The only Lexus car that crosses over (I think) is the ES. And there are many other examples of course.

I know that there are those that are totally different, that's why I said one of the reasons. There are other reasons that i shy away from them.

snakeweasel · September 2016

fintail said:
Yep that's along the lines of what I said, the higher models trickled down to the Phaeton, which went over like a lead balloon here. However, the Phaeton is alive and well in Germany and other markets.

If MB or BMW based a premium branded car on a Mini or Smart, I am certain there would be howls.

You mean something like this?

snakeweasel · September 2016

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:
I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here
Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.
fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.
And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:

Take, for instance, the tiny European city runabout known as the Aston Martin Cygnet. In its most basic version it sells at more than $45,000. The car is actually made by Toyota and a Toyota version (identical except for some interior accoutrements) can be had for less than $17,000. On an apples-to-apples comparison, Which? reckons the average price discrepancy is more than $31,000. Thus those who prefer Aston Martin’s badge pay an outrageous three times more for exactly the same Toyota engineering!

Don't forget that Mercedes is just a glorified Smart Car !

I think you are going the wrong way on this one.

ab348 · September 2016

driver100 said:

And Lincolns are glorified Fusions, Lexus is glorified Camry, GMC Yukon is Chev Tahoe, and then there is this:

And here I always thought a Lexus was a glorified Corolla. Next thing you'll be telling me that Acuras are just glorified Hondas!

jmonroe · September 2016

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:
K
jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:
Driver, can't you just share a car for that short a time? If not, figure out when you really need it, and rent much cleaner overall.
I agree. Hard to share, my wife is all over the place doing her yoga, tennis, gym, bridge, doctor, dentist and other things women do, talk about doilies or something, and I have to be at tennis, pickleball , and....I guess that's about it.

I think renting is the best plan. The only one better is if someone sold me a great car for a low price, then I could sell it after 6 weeks.....but, there would be license, taxes, advertising, mechanical certificate.......I just talked myself out of that one.
C'mon now, man up and take her car early in the morning while Mrs. Driver is still sleeping and do what you want to do with it. You know she will be at home when you get back, right?

Do that once and let us know how that worked out.

jmonroe
Thanks for the idea.....not much tennis or pickleball before 6:30 a.m..

And, how would you like to get by with one car?

And, do you let Mrs. JM drive your car?

My wife can drive my car if she really has to....like if my arm and leg got broken. She doesn't really like driving it....too big (one reason I get a larger car).

I always say, there are 3 things I don't lend 1) my underwear, 2) my toothbrush, 3) my car!
Mrs. j does not like to drive ANY car but hers, once she gets used to a car she won't drive anything else. If she had a tank, once she got used to it that would be all she would want to drive.

jmonroe
I gave my wife a driving lesson in the E400 so that she would know what to do if I passed out or if she needed to drive it in an emergency. When we drive to Florida I do it all, I would rather be driving than be the passenger.....probably a control issue. Most people split the driving, she would prefer not to drive unless she has to.

Drive to Florida takes about 23 hours of actual driving time. About 8 hours 1st day, 9 the second, and 6 or 7 the third.

I wanted to show Mrs. j how to drive my car just in case an emergency of some type popped up and she said she could drive it if she HAD to.

As for driving when we go on vacation that is also out because she does not drive on interstates. Years ago when we went on a vacation, after we stopped to eat she said she would drive because she thought I looked tired. I reminded her that she didn't drive interstates but I guess she wanted to help me and insisted. Son#1 was of driving age at this time but he went with some of his friends to Ocean City MD ahead of us about 3 days earlier so he couldn't help with the driving and Son #2 did not even have his permit yet so he couldn't help drive. I finally agreed to let her drive figuring that it would be a good experience. WRONG, after about 2 miles I told her to pull over and let me have the wheel. She did not do anything wrong other than squeeze the life out of the steering wheel and drove just at the speed limit only in the right lane, even had semi's pass us and pull in front of us a few times. That did it, I took over from their and she said, "I was just getting the hank of it, you should have given me more time". Son #2 said, "Mom, we want to get there today while the sun is still shining and we can go into the ocean. You should learn on your own time".

That was the last time she ever did that and I ain't sorry one bit.

jmonroe
If I ever did that to my wife I'd still be standing on the side of the road. Not that she wouldn't have driven just like yours but she wouldn't tolerate being told about it.

Not my wife, she would have let me drive. Now she wouldn't talk to be for the next few days over it but she wouldn't leave me there.

Well, if you were a "glass half full" type of guy you would welcome the peace and quite for those few days. Maybe even finish that book that you were meaning to get back to.

jmonroe

stickguy · September 2016

True. I often enjoy the silent treatment. Peaceful.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2016

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:
I wonder if BMW salespeople ever explain turn signal operation to their prospects - hard to believe it based on what I see on the road here
Around here sometimes I think Toyota salespeople never explain that their cars have gas pedals.
fintail said:

I don't see MB salespeople putting down others much, but I do remember one who went on about how Audis are glorified VWs.

Audis are glorified VW's.
They are also slightly de-contented Lamborghini though. Oh yeah, and 4-wheel Ducati's
Come on, the TT is just a dressed up beetle.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/audi-tt-rs-receives-substantial-performance-boost/

I wonder how much Audi will price that Beetle! Will pretty much outrun anything. I'm told the TT is not an uncommon daily driver in Germany.
Not sure but I do know that the TT started out with a Beetle frame, an Beetle engine and a Beetle transmission. Basically Audi changed the body panels and spruced up the interior. Not sure how much of the Beetle the current TT retains but in the beginning it was just a Beetle with plastic surgery.

The Audi TT shared a platform with quite a few Audi/VW products, including New Beetle, Golf Mk IV, A3, etc.

sda · September 2016

Question for those who recently bought a TDI in anticipation of profiting. Now that you have a TDI, assuming there wasn't a settlement but you just bought the car like any other, do you like the TDI? Would you keep it long term or do you prefer a gasoline powered vehicle? What do you like, what don't you about the TDI?

nyccarguy · September 2016

I thing the general consensus is that most of the guys like them except @qbrozen who isn't comfortable in his JSW and he also doesn't like that it doesn't have 420 hp like the CTS V Sport he traded in for it

henryn · September 2016

I owned a 2008 Passat, purchased new, kept for 5 years and 103k miles. 2.0T gas engine. I liked it enough that I would have bought another one, but they will not sell you a Passat with the 2.0T engine anymore. This present car, the 2013 Passat TDI is my first diesel car. I did own a Ford Super Duty diesel for many years, but an entirely different experience.

I like this car. If it didn't have a sunroof, I would probably keep it until December of 2018 with no depreciation. After I take the buyback, if I could buy a brand new one (without the sunroof), I would give that very serious consideration.

But right now, in a new Passat, you can't get the 2.0T. And you can't get the diesel. Heck, you can't even get one with satellite radio or the power driver's seat without being forced into a sunroof. Which takes away so much headroom that I am not comfortable. So no, I won't be buying another one.

But I do like the diesel. I have the display set to show avg mpg since the last start. I have made several freeway trips, 20 to 30 miles, where my avg mpg was 47 or 48. On one trip, the display showed 50 mpg when I pulled off the freeway. And torque, oh yes, it feels good, I like driving it. The DSG is kind of weird, takes some getting used to, but not a deal breaker, not at all.

As I said, I would buy another one if... But under present circumstances, no I won't. Their loss.

28firefighter · September 2016

I really like the TDI. The A3 itself is not practical for our purposes, but the engine and powertrain is phenomenal.

If I could find a Golf Sportwagen TDI after this mess, I'd buy it.

snakeweasel · September 2016

driver100 said:

houdini1 said:

"houdini1
Don't forget that Mercedes is just a glorified Smart Car !

That is funny.

Seriously though, I have had a rental Fusion, Cruze, Chrysler 300, BMW iX, and I have no idea how I will last until December without my Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! (sorry whoever was offended by using that name)

Did you spell it Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz because it makes you sleepy?

snakeweasel · September 2016

driver100 said:

berri said:
Driver, I think the 300 has drive by wire, so you smart to get out of it since it could be warning of a computer system failure. Incidentally, a United Airbus had an issue like that which ran it off the taxiway in Denver the other day.
I forgot about that. It did go through my mind that if it was ps fluid, it would be more constant. I thought at one point I should call and have them pick up the car....if I hit a car or someone because of this steering it could be my fault for driving it knowing it wasn't right.....and I would have to prove there was a malfunction.

Another thought was, I don't know how much this car is worth, say $38k, I think I would rather pay say $45k for a 328, A4 or C Class that I know has a much better chance of being designed right. I have heard people balk at paying $45k for a car....but, at least you aren't throwing away $38k on something not really made right.

When you mass produce anything there will be the occasional product that gets through that doesn't perform right. Paying more doesn't make that go away. If anything when you pay more you are getting a more complected product so you could very well have a better chance of some type of failure.

driver100 · September 2016

"snakeweasel"

"snakeweasel"
Did you spell it Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz because it makes you sleepy?

No, I spelled it like that because there is nothing else like it, it is special, so it is a Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, not to be confused with say a Foooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddddddddddd or Chryslerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
which I have had lately as rentals.

driver100 · September 2016

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

berri said:
Driver, I think the 300 has drive by wire, so you smart to get out of it since it could be warning of a computer system failure. Incidentally, a United Airbus had an issue like that which ran it off the taxiway in Denver the other day.
I forgot about that. It did go through my mind that if it was ps fluid, it would be more constant. I thought at one point I should call and have them pick up the car....if I hit a car or someone because of this steering it could be my fault for driving it knowing it wasn't right.....and I would have to prove there was a malfunction.

Another thought was, I don't know how much this car is worth, say $38k, I think I would rather pay say $45k for a 328, A4 or C Class that I know has a much better chance of being designed right. I have heard people balk at paying $45k for a car....but, at least you aren't throwing away $38k on something not really made right.
When you mass produce anything there will be the occasional product that gets through that doesn't perform right. Paying more doesn't make that go away. If anything when you pay more you are getting a more complected product so you could very well have a better chance of some type of failure.

I think there is truth to that, but, although you pay more, and it is more complicated so it may break down - think power windows as an example - you are getting more substance and a more enjoyable product for your money.

If my brother is buying a camera he will check four makes, then choose the cheapest. If he is buying a car he will check 2 or 3 and buy the cheapest. His research consists of finding the cheapest possible product. He chooses restaurant meals the same way. I choose what I really like and want, but, that I can still afford. Food, cameras, cars anything are more than getting my moneys worth...they are also how much enjoyment I will get from it.

If a really nice car costs $6000 more, I would try to buy it and pay the extra $2000 a year to buy it, and get maximum enjoyment from it. Life is limited, enjoy it to the max!

qbrozen · September 2016

sda said:

Question for those who recently bought a TDI in anticipation of profiting. Now that you have a TDI, assuming there wasn't a settlement but you just bought the car like any other, do you like the TDI? Would you keep it long term or do you prefer a gasoline powered vehicle? What do you like, what don't you about the TDI?

I like the engine. That's about it. Transmission is real sluggish off the line but OK once underway. It is roomy in the back for the kids. No way I could keep it long term due to not being comfy in it though.

explorerx4 · September 2016

@driver100,
You are buying an Average White Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (70's musical reference)

driver100 · September 2016

explorerx4 said:
@driver100,
You are buying an Average White Benzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (70's musical reference)

I am not sure about that one, but there was this one:

https://youtu.be/7tGuJ34062s

fordfool · September 2016

The rear rack is for golf clubs, right! Understandably, there is no license
plate frame because it's not meant to be driven off of the course.

oldfarmer50 · September 2016

driver100 said:
That steering in the Chryco 300 felt pretty dangerous today. It happens about every 5 miles, I am driving along and then the car wants to veer in the opposite direction....only lasts about 4 or 5 seconds. I have to hang onto the wheel tight with 2 hands, and pull it back on track. It feels like the wheels got caught in a streetcar track and want to go on their own.

I switched the 300 for an X1. Talk about firm steering....feels like there is no power steering, but, I am getting used to it after the loosey goosey 300. Annoying that I can't switch off the off on ignition. Interior is pretty basic, but, the X1 is solid, it is engineered right, it feels light years ahead of the 300 - and it has 28k miles on it compared to 6k on the 300.

Discount thinks it is low on power steering fluid....but, only 6k miles!

The way people treat rental car it's probably because someone DID drive on railroad tracks.

jmonroe · September 2016

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

berri said:
Driver, I think the 300 has drive by wire, so you smart to get out of it since it could be warning of a computer system failure. Incidentally, a United Airbus had an issue like that which ran it off the taxiway in Denver the other day.
I forgot about that. It did go through my mind that if it was ps fluid, it would be more constant. I thought at one point I should call and have them pick up the car....if I hit a car or someone because of this steering it could be my fault for driving it knowing it wasn't right.....and I would have to prove there was a malfunction.

Another thought was, I don't know how much this car is worth, say $38k, I think I would rather pay say $45k for a 328, A4 or C Class that I know has a much better chance of being designed right. I have heard people balk at paying $45k for a car....but, at least you aren't throwing away $38k on something not really made right.
When you mass produce anything there will be the occasional product that gets through that doesn't perform right. Paying more doesn't make that go away. If anything when you pay more you are getting a more complected product so you could very well have a better chance of some type of failure.
I think there is truth to that, but, although you pay more, and it is more complicated so it may break down - think power windows as an example - you are getting more substance and a more enjoyable product for your money.

If my brother is buying a camera he will check four makes, then choose the cheapest. If he is buying a car he will check 2 or 3 and buy the cheapest. His research consists of finding the cheapest possible product. He chooses restaurant meals the same way. I choose what I really like and want, but, that I can still afford. Food, cameras, cars anything are more than getting my moneys worth...they are also how much enjoyment I will get from it.

If a really nice car costs $6000 more, I would try to buy it and pay the extra $2000 a year to buy it, and get maximum enjoyment from it. Life is limited, enjoy it to the max!

You mention power windows and everyone today has them and they are pretty darn reliable. I don't remember anyone lately complaining about them but that was not the case years ago.

In 1966 I bought my first new car, a Bonneville 2 door hardtop that had power windows. The window sticker showed them as a $107 adder, the full MSRP was $4007 even. When I'm at the negotiating table I told the salesman to order me one just like it but not with power windows because back then they were known to be troublesome. The salesman didn't want to do that just because of the windows and said something like, "will you buy this car today if I only charge you my cost for the windows"? I said that depends on what your cost is and he said $55. So I bought the car.

About 2 months later when I put down the right rear window it went down but it came off the track and when I got home I had to use two sticks to finagle the track back in place. This was not the common problem. The common problem was the motor burning out back in those days. To help remind me to be careful not to put that window down too far, I used a piece of duct tape to hold a small block of wood to the top inside of the window. It wasn't very fashionable but it worked for a few weeks before I could get the car to the dealer waaay on the other side of the Burgh from the suburb I lived in. Like I said not fashionable but it sure did get comments when I parked the car in various parking lots including at work. I couldn't count how many people asked, "what's that on your window"? When I explained it to them almost all of them said, "yeah, I guess they're nice when they work but I don't think I'd want to live with them until they become more reliable".

The first I remember seeing power windows was back in the early 50's on Cadillac's, Lincoln's, Imperial's, Packard's etc. not on the run of the mill everyday cars.

I don't think anyone would want a car today without power windows and I'd be at the top of that list. Heck, most people today don't even want to hold their finger on the button to lower and raise the window. They want the one push/pull style to operate the windows. I guess they need those fingers ready to operate their phones.

Life can't exist today without multi-tasking.

jmonroe

houdini1 · September 2016

fordfool said:

The rear rack is for golf clubs, right! Understandably, there is no license
plate frame because it's not meant to be driven off of the course.

The only way I would drive that thing is if everyone else had to drive one too ! At least it looks like it has an escape hatch in the roof.

houdini1 · September 2016

Air conditioning. I'm old, but years ago one of my old bosses was telling me about some of his exploits when he was younger. His company car had one of those units that you hung on the outside of your window, rolled the window up on a flange and held it in place. He had a few drinks one night in Phoenix and forgot and rolled the window down. Crash! He said the last time he saw the "air conditioner", it was bouncing down the road behind him.

js06gv · September 2016

It was Discount. It just happened that when I called in they had the X1 getting washed and almost ready to go. I imagine they didn't want to fool around when there was a steering problem. The guy said I see you had an E400, so I can give you this X1.
No blind spot warning and no rear camera, but, it is solid as a rock.

The fact that ANY BMW these days comes without a backup camera is just ridiculous.

jmonroe · September 2016

houdini1 said:
Air conditioning. I'm old, but years ago one of my old bosses was telling me about some of his exploits when he was younger. His company car had one of those units that you hung on the outside of your window, rolled the window up on a flange and held it in place. He had a few drinks one night in Phoenix and forgot and rolled the window down. Crash! He said the last time he saw the "air conditioner", it was bouncing down the road behind him.

I never heard of a window A/C in a car. That must have been a real sight.

I appoint @driver100 to go fetch a pic of this.

jmonroe

roadburner · September 2016

My 2er doesn't have one; if you need one for that model I'd suggest using public transit.

berri · September 2016

Anyone else getting a pop up for mono.vizo.com wanting to tag and track you on this site. I'm getting it on two different computers and only for this website. It is called smart_tag.js

jmonroe · September 2016

js06gv said:

It was Discount. It just happened that when I called in they had the X1 getting washed and almost ready to go. I imagine they didn't want to fool around when there was a steering problem. The guy said I see you had an E400, so I can give you this X1.
No blind spot warning and no rear camera, but, it is solid as a rock.

The fact that ANY BMW these days comes without a backup camera is just ridiculous.

I was thinking the same about that.

I doubt that model is a true Ultimate Driving Machine by todays standards.

jmonroe

jmonroe · September 2016

berri said:
Anyone else getting a pop up for mono.vizo.com wanting to tag and track you on this site. I'm getting it on two different computers and only for this website.

Not me. At least not yet. It could be a dues thing.

jmonroe

berri · September 2016

It is weird. The name is called smart_tag.js . I get it both on a Windows 10 and a Windows 7 computer using Edge or Explorer 11 respectively. Does not respond to any virus or adware software, nor CC Cleaner.

stever · September 2016

Sounds like it may be some tracking software and some say it's a virus. Didn't nose around but for a few seconds but found this.

js06gv · September 2016

roadburner said:
My 2er doesn't have one; if you need one for that model I'd suggest using public transit.

I know from previous comments that you think the addition of modern safety equipment turns cars into sissy mobiles, but I'm not talking about a rear cam from a "need" standpoint. They are about to become mandatory as standard equipment on every vehicle (can't remember in which year, but it's soon). To me, that a premium manufacturer doesn't just build them in ahead of time before they are forced to do so is the ridiculous part. It's similar to when dual airbags weren't mandated until 1997 (really 1994, but the Feds let manufacturers choose to linger on for 3 more years with one bag and an "automatic" belt for the passenger) Several companies, Mercedes and BMW included, got ahead of the curve and installed dual bags sooner.

oldfarmer50 · September 2016

Some bedtime reading. Pleasant dreams.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclaren/570/2016/2016-motor-trend-best-drivers-car/?wc_mid=4035:3474&wc_rid=4035:1116404&_wcsid=803D36F0164E42D5126522EAB2C8C7A98135065E0AC9FD2F

berri · September 2016

Well, forgot about system restore. Gave it a try and so far, so good. I guess we'll see...

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