The OB will probably be redesigned with the Legacy. We should see the new Legacy introduced in Japan later this year. The new model will probably hit the US sometime next year as an '05 model year.
unless you need the H6 or can wait for the 2.5T (yum yum yum), the Legacy GT has a stiffer suspension than an Outback. For that matter, the Legacy L may too or at least the L it isn't as high off the road as an OB is so shouldn't wallow as much.
Can't wait for that future 2.5T GT, just in time to replace my 98 GT! Now, if they put a real "manualmatic" on it rather than the pathetic sportshift they have on the 03 it will be really something. I read somewhere that the Subaru WRC cars can change gears in half the time of the Ferraris - like less than 100msec!! Get a production version of that on the GT (and STi) and it will be awesome!
I have been noticing an engine (2.5liter) rattle between 30 to 40mph. It's not that loud but noticeable. Is this normal? Anybody have the same experience? It only has 1400 miles on it. Could it have something to do with the gasoline octane? I used Chevron regular unleaded 87 octane.
I lived in CA, the factory recommends 5W-30, does anyone use 10W-30? Do you notice any difference on gas mileage?
My coolant gauge is just a hair below center also. Even after I just had the coolant changed.
If the engine rattle is "pinging", mine does occassionally do this very lightly under load. It does not really effect anything unless it is severe. At 1400 miles, your system might not have adjusted to your driving habits yet (yes, it does learn). As for 5W-30, check your manual and it will show you the grade to use for your temp climate. I currently use 5W-30 Mobil 1, but hear some knocking when cold. I am going to try 10W-30 next.
Maybe it's because I drove 3 different Suburbans while raising 3 kids (and their friends, girl scouts, and church youth) before I got the Outback, but I take exception to the use of the term "wallow" as regards the Outback. My car hugs the road. I call it "sure-footed".
Where is the rattle coming from? I've noticed a rattle near those same speeds, but have determined thats its probably a heat shield near the muffler/tail pipe area.
I have noticed that when my H6 engine is at idling speed, I can hear an extremely high pitch noise ( probably higher than 10 Khz; that is not an exact measurement; just guessing ) when I am standing outside next to the car. I don't hear is inside the car. That tells how good the sound insulation is on the Bean. I suspect from the fuel pump. Does anyone have any feedback for this noise?
Loved your post #7307. I do the same manuver in the snow when I get that guy that just has to ride my tail up a hill. It's not like I'm just puttin' along. Whether I'm in my Sequoia or the wife's Outback, there always seems to be somebody who wants me to go faster in the snow. I just slow to a stop and then roll away laughing while he sits there spinning in his big spoiler mobile. My wife hates this and lets me know. That's what happens when you get married I guess.
I also had the same whine at idle and pointed it out to a subaru technician when it was in for a service. He just sprayed a little bit of lubricant on the alternator belt and the whine disappeared. He said that I could use WD40 as a substitute if the whine reappeared. It's been quiet since then.
Give it a try. Just remember to give only a tiny squirt because the friction between the belt and the pulley is important.
I have a 1997 Outback. My problem is that during the winter the window will freeze to the rubber weatherstripping and prevents me from opening the door. I can pull hard to open but I fear that I will rip the rubber weatherstripping. Anyone have a solution?
This problem increases when the rubber ages, becomes porous and absorbs more moisture. One solution is to keep it slick and supple by using a rubber/vinyl treatment. I use Meguires (like Armor All), but there are many products that will do the job.
Also, keep the window spotlessly clean where it contacts the rubber. Crud holds water.
I've never heard that one before. Permatex makes a belt dressing that increase the efficiency and quiet the whine between the belt/pully. I would think putting lubricants on belts would not be a good thing. Belt dressing works great on all belt driven things like lawn mowers with wheel drives, table saws...etc. Not a bad thing to keep in the tool box. I would use belt dressing before using any lube on belts.
WD40 is petroluem-based and while it may help short term it can dry out any natural materials like rubber. It also is water-diplacing (hence the name) and could actually remove needed lubrication if you use it in spots like sway bar bushings (so don't).
Use a lithium based lube instead, they even make that in a spray can like WD40. That might make windows greasy, but I'd look for another alternative to WD40.
An alternate method of applying lithium, silicone, whatever on the door seals: spray a spot onto a cloth, then rub onto the rubber. I've used silicone onthe door seals this way, helps the window freeze problem quite a bit. I wonder if alcohol wiped onto (& then allowed to dry) that part of the glass that contacts the window seals would help?
with the tech at Lou Fusz Subaru. He (shall remain nameless) claims that Subaru has a Legacy STi in the works and will be in the US by 2005. Says its not the 2.5T but a twin-turbo variant of the 3.0 H6 that makes 350hp. He went on to claim that the price would be $45k. I have no idea where he is getting his information. I looked around a little and asked around too but I was unable to find anything about a TT H6 that Subaru has under development. No spy photos, no mention of a TT H6, nothing. So has anyone else heard this?
It's been on the net. There's a post regarding it in the "Subaru Crew Future Models" thread, that I posted several weeks back about it, including some spy photos.
You said it before - the most HP and leather seats does not make the best car or driver. I prefer good HP with excellent handling characteristics. There is always the next car coming that is quicker. Witness - the WRX STi.
In relative terms IF it really comes with 350hp, AWD, leather, massive brakes, HID, traction control, stability control, manual transmission or better yet SMG-like shifter, and is at least the same size (or a little bigger) as the current Legacy, it would be a great deal.
Other options: The S6 and RS6 Avant are not realistic even though I dream about them all the time (are $60-80k if you can find one). Granted they have V8s and are a premium brand but the price is too high for me. I did consider saving for the S6 but the price just floated too high. I always thought there should be an M3 wagon BUT such a beast does not exist so the 330Xi is all thats left. BUT at nearly $45k loaded its not that interesting to me. Mazda will release a Mazdaspeed 6 wagon at some point (I hope) but if its not AWD I will not even look at it. I like my 01 Protege ES but I dont like big power FWD cars. Subaru will have an STi WRX wagon but its too small and I really really dont want the wing and all the gold stuff.
On the other hand a 2.5L 225hp Legacy GT turbo for $27k would be fine with me.
Our local Subaru dealer has very low mileage (6000-7000-8000 miles) Outback wagons (basic wagon, no cold weather package) priced at $19350 or so. This is about $1000 less than the Legacy L/SE wagons.
I am wondering what the differences are. Aside from the body cladding (OB) and sunroofs (L/SE), I don't see much of a difference. Can anybody help me? Should I see one as a much better deal than the other?
A while back I offered the plastic wood from my 01 Legacy free for the asking. I had swapped it out for the standard L black/gray dash pieces. I had a response but lost it. Anyone interested? The pieces include:
Shifter surround HVAC surround Left side of wheel fog/cruise panel.
There isn't much difference. You can do a comparison on the Edmunds main page to see all of them. Basically the Outback has a slightly raised suspension and higher profile tire. It also has more head room due to power driver seat and no sun roof. The outback also has the outside plastic trim/cladding. Otherwise there are just a few little odds/ends but overall they are the same vehical. Both are great.
About the only "functional" difference that I can think of (aside from the additional ground clearance and larger tires) is the standard limited slip rear differential on the Outback -- it's not available on the Legacy LSE. Otherwise, they are going to be VERY similar vehicles.
I specifically chose the OB over the Legacy in 01 when I bought my OB because of the LSD rear end...I think it's a very worthwhile feature to have in the really nasty stuff. Having said that, though, I would probably choose the LSE if I were walking into the showroom today. It's an outstanding value, a bit more fun to drive than the OB, and doesn't have the 2 tone cladding (which I've never really fallen in love with). Either one, though will be a great choice!
Thanks for the responses. I didn't realize the OB base wagon had the LSD. That does seem to tip the scales a little bit.
Where do people store their cds in the Legacy/OB? I think I tried to put a case in that little storage compartment under the radio, and it didn't quite fit. Do people keep their cds in the center console?
I keep my CDs in the console. Of course, between my wife and kids, none of the CDs are in their right box (Drives me nuts, no pun intended). As for OB vs. L/SE, choose the one you like. Let your emotion have a little fun.
CDs in the console. After almost two years of juggling the individual cases (and trying to match up the right CD to the right case) I bought a small zipper book that can hold about 40 CDs - it slips into the center console just fine and best of all, does't slap from side to side like the cases would when cornering. Cases are now stacked in a closet at home. Steve
I recently bought a 03 LL Bean. I have a dog gate from my old OB that used pressure top and bottom for the gate. Can I use this with the Bean? If not, why not? It looks like it would press far enough away from the moonroof.
I was very tempted to go for the L SE. Still am, but...
The base OB has the All Weather Package. The OB has larger breaks, better suspension (IMO, and I believe the seat is height adjustable. You are giving up on the dual moon roofs.
I think the price is now more comparable as you can snag a Base OB for about $20,300-$20,500.
Has anyone had problems with the headroom in the rear seat of the OB? I sat in the Legacy GT and was almost bumping the roof.
Decisions Decisions... Wish it could be one of each. lol
Lou - where can you get a 2003 OB for $20300? The MSRP is over $23000, and Edmunds lists the TMV at about $22000.
The 2002 OB doesn't come standard with the all weather package. I have found one at a dealer about 2 hours away - new, but with 3600 miles on it, manual transmission, for $20500. If I could get a 2003 for that price, I'd go for it! (I live in Arkansas, so shopping at a car dealer in the DC area is definitely out - unless they deliver)
In fact, I was going to write to ask the list if the $20500 price sounded reasonable for a car like this. I guess I'd still like to know what people think....
My local dealer in NY was running ads for '03 base model OB wagons with automatic for $21.6K, about $800 less with stick. And the '03 included the AWP and CD. That is in your ballpark, and you would be getting a new model. You are currently comparing a year old used OB with a new Legacy.
Last year I was willing to go $2k higher for the OBW over the Legacy L wagon (neither had sun roofs then) for the following items std on the OBW:
Limited slip rear and more ground clearance (I live with snow), power drivers seat, upgraded headlamps (4 bulb vs 2 bulb) with fogs (which I re-aimed for more 'down the road light'), better roof rack, larger tires on alloy wheels, rock salt and stone resistant lower body cladding.
You have to decide whether these items are important to you (or maybe even fall in the negatives category).
I like the Outback! But, until now, I didn't think we could afford one. The Legacy is nice, but sunroofs/moonroofs don't speak to me. I like the strange two tone body. I like the look of the raised suspension. I like the idea of the rear LSD (even if I never use it here, which might be true). I'd love to have the all weather package. I don't need it much, but sometimes (like tomorrow morning when it will be 7 degrees outside) it just seems like it would be handy.
I am not sure, however, that I can get my local dealer to match prices with dealers in NY, NJ, or DC. I will go and ask, but I'm sure he'll just laugh at me. That is why we are considering last year's model at another dealer 2 hours away. It would be a way to get into an Outback.
Also, the local dealer has those low mileage 2002 OBs that we may go for. They are automatics, which we don't really want. It is a tough decision, drive 2 hours for a car we'd like better or buy local and save the hassle.
As for the colors, I really like the red and white ones, the seamist green is OK. The dark blue is OK, too. In a perfect world I'd get a red one, probably.
Comments
Ken
Bob
Can't wait for that future 2.5T GT, just in time to replace my 98 GT! Now, if they put a real "manualmatic" on it rather than the pathetic sportshift they have on the 03 it will be really something. I read somewhere that the Subaru WRC cars can change gears in half the time of the Ferraris - like less than 100msec!! Get a production version of that on the GT (and STi) and it will be awesome!
I lived in CA, the factory recommends 5W-30, does anyone use 10W-30? Do you notice any difference on gas mileage?
If the engine rattle is "pinging", mine does occassionally do this very lightly under load. It does not really effect anything unless it is severe. At 1400 miles, your system might not have adjusted to your driving habits yet (yes, it does learn). As for 5W-30, check your manual and it will show you the grade to use for your temp climate. I currently use 5W-30 Mobil 1, but hear some knocking when cold. I am going to try 10W-30 next.
Greg
-mike
-juice
--jay
Seriously, I did not feel that much difference between the OBW and a Legacy L when I was shopping for my '02.
Steve
Alland
Greg
Give it a try. Just remember to give only a tiny squirt because the friction between the belt and the pulley is important.
-mike
Also, keep the window spotlessly clean where it contacts the rubber. Crud holds water.
Steve
my two cents.
now that's 4 cents.
Len
Use a lithium based lube instead, they even make that in a spray can like WD40. That might make windows greasy, but I'd look for another alternative to WD40.
-juice
Cheers!
Paul
Bob
Greg
-mike
Greg
Other options:
The S6 and RS6 Avant are not realistic even though I dream about them all the time (are $60-80k if you can find one). Granted they have V8s and are a premium brand but the price is too high for me. I did consider saving for the S6 but the price just floated too high.
I always thought there should be an M3 wagon BUT such a beast does not exist so the 330Xi is all thats left. BUT at nearly $45k loaded its not that interesting to me.
Mazda will release a Mazdaspeed 6 wagon at some point (I hope) but if its not AWD I will not even look at it. I like my 01 Protege ES but I dont like big power FWD cars.
Subaru will have an STi WRX wagon but its too small and I really really dont want the wing and all the gold stuff.
On the other hand a 2.5L 225hp Legacy GT turbo for $27k would be fine with me.
-mike
I am wondering what the differences are. Aside from the body cladding (OB) and sunroofs (L/SE), I don't see much of a difference. Can anybody help me? Should I see one as a much better deal than the other?
Thanks,
Tamara
-mike
Shifter surround
HVAC surround
Left side of wheel fog/cruise panel.
(sorry for the cross post)
bit
There isn't much difference. You can do a comparison on the Edmunds main page to see all of them. Basically the Outback has a slightly raised suspension and higher profile tire. It also has more head room due to power driver seat and no sun roof. The outback also has the outside plastic trim/cladding. Otherwise there are just a few little odds/ends but overall they are the same vehical. Both are great.
--jay
I specifically chose the OB over the Legacy in 01 when I bought my OB because of the LSD rear end...I think it's a very worthwhile feature to have in the really nasty stuff. Having said that, though, I would probably choose the LSE if I were walking into the showroom today. It's an outstanding value, a bit more fun to drive than the OB, and doesn't have the 2 tone cladding (which I've never really fallen in love with). Either one, though will be a great choice!
Brian
Where do people store their cds in the Legacy/OB? I think I tried to put a case in that little storage compartment under the radio, and it didn't quite fit. Do people keep their cds in the center console?
Thanks again,
Tamara
Greg
01 OB in Winestone /mud/sand/salt/ice
Steve
Thanks.
S
The base OB has the All Weather Package. The OB has larger breaks, better suspension (IMO, and I believe the seat is height adjustable. You are giving up on the dual moon roofs.
I think the price is now more comparable as you can snag a Base OB for about $20,300-$20,500.
Has anyone had problems with the headroom in the rear seat of the OB? I sat in the Legacy GT and was almost bumping the roof.
Decisions Decisions... Wish it could be one of each. lol
- Lou
The 2002 OB doesn't come standard with the all weather package. I have found one at a dealer about 2 hours away - new, but with 3600 miles on it, manual transmission, for $20500. If I could get a 2003 for that price, I'd go for it! (I live in Arkansas, so shopping at a car dealer in the DC area is definitely out - unless they deliver)
In fact, I was going to write to ask the list if the $20500 price sounded reasonable for a car like this. I guess I'd still like to know what people think....
Tamara
Liberty Subaru Base Outback with 5 Spd. The 20,299 is on their "specials" page. Unfortunately, I don't think they deliver to Arkansas.
Van Bortel Subaru
The Van Bortel site reports a $500 cash back incentive although their prices are higher.
-mike
Last year I was willing to go $2k higher for the OBW over the Legacy L wagon (neither had sun roofs then) for the following items std on the OBW:
Limited slip rear and more ground clearance (I live with snow), power drivers seat, upgraded headlamps (4 bulb vs 2 bulb) with fogs (which I re-aimed for more 'down the road light'), better roof rack, larger tires on alloy wheels, rock salt and stone resistant lower body cladding.
You have to decide whether these items are important to you (or maybe even fall in the negatives category).
Steve
Tamara - can I ask which one you like emotionally? and what color?
Greg
I am not sure, however, that I can get my local dealer to match prices with dealers in NY, NJ, or DC. I will go and ask, but I'm sure he'll just laugh at me. That is why we are considering last year's model at another dealer 2 hours away. It would be a way to get into an Outback.
Also, the local dealer has those low mileage 2002 OBs that we may go for. They are automatics, which we don't really want. It is a tough decision, drive 2 hours for a car we'd like better or buy local and save the hassle.
As for the colors, I really like the red and white ones, the seamist green is OK. The dark blue is OK, too. In a perfect world I'd get a red one, probably.
Sigh.
Tamara