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Audi A6

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  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    I couldn't have said it better myself. I think Audis are tremendous values for the money when you compare them to MB and BMW.
  • gooddesigngooddesign Posts: 34
    Here it comes. I am dropping off my baby ('98 2.8Q) tomorrow for the following "issues".

    1. Replace defective stereo (volume knob no longer controls volume).

    2. Fix the loud creaking / squeaking noise coming from my front suspension (too loud to have clients or even friends in the car).

    3. Wiper fluid leaking (possible pump failure).

    4. Brake Service

    5. Confirm that headlights are aligned (they are Xenon - incredibly bright - I'm still getting flashed).

    Here's my question: Now that the warranty is expired, what are the odds of seeing a "good will" discount on the obvious things, like the suspension, which failed way too soon.

    I'm getting a good deal on the replacement stereo, which was quoted around $89.00 (originally $400-$500) but honestly, how many stereos go defective after three years? I think that they're just embarrassed about this item.

    While I don't expect the dealer to feel responsible for off-warranty items, they are locally owned by the same dealer who serviced our Nissans (2), Subaru (1) and Volkswagens (4). Has anyone experienced a lateral loyalty discount from an "umbrella" dealer? Is there a win/win scenario here?

    I would like some honest opinions other than the usual "the dealer owes you nothing!" and "that should be a recall." Please help.

    (I will post a follow up in the next day or two when I get the "word" from the dealer.)
  • You will pay for all "maintenance" items -- is my best guess. You shouldn't pay for the suspension -- of course that is my opinion. The other stuff, we need more data from you.

    Apparently, you have more than 50,000 miles on the car, but you didn't say how much. If you are WAY OVER on miles, I would think your chances of "free" work are diminished.

    If, on the other hand, you have run out of time and not out of miles on your A6's factory warranty, I would think you have a pretty good chance of having everything taken care of -- for good will (no charge, that is), etc.

    Is the car is good shape? Have you maintained the car at equal to or better than factory requirements? Are you your dealer's "best customer" (or at least a really good customer?). Have any of the problems you site been brought to the dealer's attention PRIOR to the expiration of the warranty?

    If you see the direction these questions are headed, I would offer the following opinion: You may have to pay for everything -- letter of the "law" kind of thing. Or, you may find yourself being the recipient of some good will on Audi's (not your dealer's) part. Generally dealers (unless they have done something "wrong") can't "eat" too much.

    I wouldn't "suggest" to them that if they don't comp all this stuff that you will never buy another Audi -- most businesses don't like dealing that way. I wouldn't want a customer, personally, that would threaten me (and I am speaking from both the dealer's and the Company's point of view). Of course, I don't work for either and their situation and the circumstances surrounding your issues may merit either your ire or them standing their ground.

    Give us some more details, please. And remember you will catch more whatevers with sugar than vinegar.
  • Here are my observations after giving up my BOW and driving my Audio for about a month now.

    1 - A6 feels bigger, and bigger is better
    2 - A6 feels more luxurious, and it is
    3 - A6 4.2 sucks down gas big time
    4 - A6 I sit higher and higher is better
    5 - A6 4.2 - exclusive - I have yet to see another on the road. Only 2.8s and 2.7s.
    6 - A6 insurance went up over $400 per year
    7 - A6 lease deal was 1,000 times better then what BMW was offering at the time
    8 - A6 is a sporty luxury car
    9 - BMW is a luxurious sports car
    10 - My kids love it especially the auto sun shades.
  • Sorry for the diversion in topic, but I thought maybe some of you A6 owners may have been previous 100 owners. I have a 1992 100CS and I just want to know if there is a secret to removing the rear headrests. Any help would be appreciated.
  • Call Bill Fleiman at Northland Audi @ 513-851-5900 if you can't get help on this board -- I had a 1992 and a 1993 100 and I can't remember any time I needed to remove the headrests, sorry.
  • jason64jason64 Posts: 50
    Hi Mark, this is my first post on this board. I've been reading this baord for a few weeks now and it is my impression that you seem to have a lot of experiences with Audi's and you are very articulate about your first hand experience. I was wondering before you bought your A6, did you consider any one of the Japanese competitors like the Lexus GS, Nissan Maxima, or Acura's? If not, what were your other choices? Thanks for your response.
  • I work with about 30 people most of whom are under the age of 40 and have relatively high incomes (well, until the recession hit, but that's another story). So, I helped several of the folks who were in car shopping mode put together some "test drive report cards" for the cars they would be test driving.

    One of the things that we considered was "monthly lease payment" -- as literally everyone I know or am related to leases their cars. I think I may know one person who "buys" -- in cash -- a new car every 3 or 4 years, so #1 on the list was lease payment (and ALWAYS no money down).

    The purpose of the lease payment is to narrow the field down -- among other things.

    Recently, I participated in a test drive adventure for a person who ultimately purhcased a BMW 740i (short wheelbase). I also participated in a test drive adventure for a person who ultimately purchased an Audi A4 and an Audi A6 2.7T. Other test drives which used my "test drive report cards" but that I did not participate in yielded a New Beetle (VW) purchase and a really really good condition used Acura coupe.

    Let's use one of the examples:

    Lease payment amount per month (target) $500/including tax (5% tolerance, meaning for the perfect car $525).

    Lease term (target) 36 months (10% tolerance, meaning 39 months would be OK)

    Stick shift first choice

    Sporty

    Four doors

    Front wheel or all wheel drive perhaps RWD with traction control (Cincinnati has moderate winters)

    Some creature comforts, e.g. heated seats, nice stereo, power windows, etc.

    Safety features (airbags, traction control or stability program, ABS etc.)

    "Sex appeal" (attractive -- very subjective)

    Warranty / Service availability and reputation

    "Q" factor -- a "sense" that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts; or some feeling that the car has capabilities that it's individual component pieces would seem incapable of producing -- almost a "I wonder how they do that" factor

    ====

    OUR "seems reasonable list" (not my list):

    Audi A4 (1.8T, 2.8 and demo S4)
    BMW 3 series -- including the AWD version
    Chrylser 300M w/sport package
    Honda Accord (never drove, lack of sexiness -- thought the car would be boring)
    Lexus (two of them)
    Mazda (626 -- never drove, sexiness factor again)
    Saab 93
    Subaru (never drove, couldn't get over the "lack of sexiness" factor)
    Toyota (never drove, thought it would be a Lexus light -- and lacked sexiness)
    Volvo (with all-wheel-drive)
    VW Passat (all wheel drive)
    Mercedes C class (never drove, least expensive one exceeded criteria above)
    Acura (never drove, after having driven the Lexus -- not a good reason, I know)

    =====

    We drove as many cars, back to back as is humanly possible -- and over the "exact same" route. We took along a "test" CD to try out the stereo system and played the same song with the balance and tone controls set as close as possible to the other test vehicles.

    As I recall, this took one entire Saturday and two evenings after work to complete. I drove the cars, my friend drove the cars -- sometimes a saleperson went with us, sometimes we went alone. As I recall the Japanese brands always had someone ride with us, which we did not care for as they usually talk the entire time. The talkative salesperson in the back seat, I am convinced, does more to delay purchases than encourage them.

    The short short list was pretty easy to come up with -- number one on the list turned out to be the S4 (but then price got in the way). The BMW was high on the list, but then at a price point, performance got in the way (when compared to a 1.8T @ 170HP, all the toys including sport package, audio, Xenons, ESP, stick shift, etc. -- the BMW couldn't cut it without a huge step up in price.) The Volvo, for some reason was a real turn off -- perhaps as the salesman almost tried to talk us out of it. . . .well, you understand.

    That new BMW - killer Lexus (IS300) was a lot of fun, but seemed less sporty than its looks would lead one to believe, or as my friend said "all yak and no shak" -- I think I understand that. The Luxus probably had the best sound system.

    Saab -- not much sexiness for my 31 year old friend (even though his wife thought it was cute).

    So, to make a very long story short -- the Passat, BMW, Audi A4 and for weirdness, the Chrysler 300M made "second" looks worthwhile for some reason.

    Net net: a "custom ordered 2001 Audi A4 1.8Tquattro sport with ALL available options" -- no money down, 39 months and $424 per month.

    The A6 2.7T was compared with a BMW 530i -- no contest, not even close -- my friend leased the 2.7T.

    The 740i -- that's another long story -- especially when you venture into a test drive of the Mercedes S class.

    Hope this helps.
  • Mark, I see that you've provided a lot of knowledgable info to townhall participants on both the A6 and S4 pages. Wondering if you'd like to render an opinion on my situation?

    I thought for sure that I was sold on the A6 2.7T, but made the "mistake" today of test driving a 2001 S4 w/tiptronic. Needless to say a thrill of a ride. Here's the dilemma. The dealership I visited has 12 loaded 2001 A6 2.7T's sitting in the lot, so I know they're ready to deal. I'm guessing that I can get a $46,825 MSRP for around $43,000 (about the top of my comfort range considering taxes and all). In the meantime, you've said a lot about the expected improvements in the 2002 A6 2.7T to make me feel like it would be smarter to wait rather than settle on a 2001 model. However, my fear is that I do wait for the 2002 model only to discover that they're selling for upwards of $48,000 with little bargaining to be done (price now getting outside of what I wanted to spend).

    Meanwhile, this 2001 S4 has a sticker of $41,925 and I think I can probably get it for around $40,000 (or the big banner on the car says lease for $500/mth, 36 mths). What to do?

    I love all of the amenities in the A6 and the extra cargo and rear passenger room. But realistically, 90% of the time I am in my car alone commuting and the S4 would be suitable enough (I have 2 small children and only occasionally have more than 2 adults in my car at the same time). The expected $3000 price difference between the A6 and the S4 is not critical to me. Do you see better value in one alternative versus the other 2001 A6 2.7T ($43,000) vs. 2001 S4 ($40,000)? Or, will the 2002 A6 2.7T really be worth the wait and the extra cash?

    Thanks in advance. Any other readers, if you care to give me our thoughts it would be much appreciated. I will post this same message on the S4 board.
  • The performance (acceleration, ie) of both of these cars is supposed to be similar. There are reasons to consider both alternatives (or perhaps all three alternatives better said). In my case, the back seat is of some fair amount of importance -- when I take clients to lunch or golf for example.

    The S4 -- for me -- would be a blast but more so if it had a manual transmission.

    My current fave, actually is what I am calling S4-lite -- which is to say a fully loaded 2002 A4 3.0 quattro with the 6 speed manual, 17" sport suspension package and all the luxury add-ons (this at this moment in time is the best of all worlds, in my opinion).

    However, a 2001 2.7T A6 for a really really good lease price for 36 or fewer months would be tempting because we do operate (well most of us do, anyway) in a world where "price IS a factor."

    If money is not a factor, things might be different. Based on what I have driven and what I have read, I would TODAY go with a fully decked out Pearl White with Grey Leather ALL optioned 2002 A4 3.0 with sport suspension and 6 spd manual tranny for 30 or 36 months -- and never look back.

    The 2002 A4 does have just enough more back seat to allow me to take clients and co workers to lunch or a golf outing (and there is enough trunk space for their clubs too).

    Hope this helps.
  • jason64jason64 Posts: 50
    Mark, I understand your passion for Audi's and I understand you will only lease them. But if you were to purchase a car and keep it for good (10yr+), which car would you buy and why? Thanks.
  • A 2002 (TODAY, ie) Audi S8. And I would buy the best extended warranty on the planet earth.
  • To answer your questions: 47k miles, very nice condition except for scuff at lower front bumper (groan) and perfect maintenance. BUT, it's a '98 so the warranty expired at 36k.

    They took care of NOTHING but I didn't threaten them either. Maybe I should try hardball. Or maybe I should just buy an Acura.

    I picked up my car last night and wasn't completely happy. The rebuilt Bose stereo that was to be installed several weeks ago (but never arrived) failed to arrive again, and this time, no one bothered to tell me not to come in.

    I had added some other items to the list to be looked at (brake service light, wiper fluid light, creaking suspension, align headlamps, etc.) whenever the radio came in and they had told me that the stereo shipment wouldn't arrive until this week. We scheduled a date a week in advance for me to come in.

    Instead of calling me to let me know that the part was still on back order, they let me come in (no loaner so I had to bum a ride), made me wait until afternoon, called and talked me into spending $500 on a brake job, $180 on a defective headlamp washer fluid pump and $375 on a lower control arm replacement.

    They called back to say the job was done. I then asked if the radio is installed yet, they say that it never arrived.

    MUST.CONTROL.FIST.OF.DEATH. (...as the Dilbert saying goes.)

    Making a long story short (ha), I picked up the car right before closing and drove home. I can feel a big difference in the brakes, which is good. I'm still afraid to buy generic brakes after a bad Midas incident with my old '85 VW GTI. The Audi price seems incredibly steep but what are you going to do? These pads better never squeak.

    My wife and I go to dinner and the first thing she says is, "What's that noise?" There was still a very audible creaking sound (quieter though) coming from the front end. Don't the service techs test drive the cars after the work is done?

    I also had the service history for the car printed out for my records since I plan to own this car for a long time. To make matters worse, the 45k mile service that I thought I had performed in June seems to have been performed three months before I bought the car in March. Did I get bamboozled? My visits to the dealer were not documented on the print out either. I need to make a phone call apparently.

    The alignment of the headlamps was not brought up or mentioned on the invoice. I have no idea how they could have forgotten this since they had my itemized fax in their hands. Perhaps the headlamp alignment was fine(?)

    And of course, I still can't listen to my radio.

    Now for the icing. Last night my wife is letting me have it for all this trouble and for spending $1000 on a car that's "ONLY 3 YEARS OLD." She's primarily upset because I have always had my service performed at the dealer instead of at Joe Schmoe's Imports and claims that I waste money at the Dealer. I can't argue so I keep my mouth shut like a good hubby.

    Then, this morning, she calls me from the side of the highway; her '99 Subaru Forester's transmission blew up while in the fast lane during rush hour. She's stranded for two hours until Subaru tows her to the dealer.

    Are you ready for this? The Subaru people tell her that someone (apparently the Indy Lube that changed her oil two days ago) drained her differential and that her transmission is toast. A mere $4,600 will fix it.

    Two cars down within 24 hours. I challenge anyone to beat my luck this month. I'm interested in seeing how fast the Lube people respond and how the Subaru service compares to Audi's service.

    In the meantime, I'm going to professionally frame that Free Car Wash Voucher that my dealer gave me last night. It's too valuable to me to ever use...
  • ajaymeajayme Posts: 74
    I could never understand why anyone would take their "specialty" car (BMW,AUDI,SUBARU,ETC) to the chain oil places when many of the dealers advertise Internet Specials, i.e. BMW-328 oil change $45, Audi $55, etc. It just doesn't make sense. They even screwed my Taurus oil change years ago. They do have insurance so you'll get your money back but what a hassle. Good luck to you-I know you've learned your lesson.
  • I thought the Audi Advantage until recently was 3 years or 50,000 miles. You indicated, gooddesign, that your warranty died at 36K, yet your car "only" has 47K miles on it.

    Now, I can and have done the math -- you are technically out of the 3/50K warranty. But, I do believe that you are "entitled" to some relief -- perhaps instead of a $1,000 bill a $500 bill. And, with the lack of dealer "cooperation" (no call re parts not in, etc.), I would think that an Audi "advocate" would or should be helpful to you. They exist, and so long as you don't dump on them -- remember until they hear from you, they are NOT the bad person -- they generally want to help Audi strengthen the reputation of BOTH their cars and their dealers.

    The person I communicate with is named Carole Glynn -- she is a long time Audi employee and her mission in life is to create and retain LOYAL Audi owners, like me.

    I too have had my share of PRODUCT problems -- I bet the Mercedes, Lexis, Acuras and BMW's all have their problems too. In my opinion, it is how problems are handled, not the lack of them (although that WOULD be nice, if true) -- yet, I have virtually always had my problems resolved and my "faith" in the integrity of the company (Audi) undamaged. My dealer, whom I endorse, is not perfect -- but they do "fix their foul ups." So, not only do I "tolerate" the imperfect machines created by humans, I also find little to fault in the service I receive from MY dealer.

    Reading your words, I am close to shocked and apalled at the treatment you received. On the other hand, there are two sides to every story. I tend to totally accept your account however, as I have heard far too many tales regarding dealers (of Audis AND other brands) than I would think are even remotely acceptable.

    The book, "BLOWN TO BITS" has a chapter about auto dealerships -- it begins "Car Dealers are sitting ducks. . ." your story underscores this point.

    I would, politely and professionally, NOT TAKE THIS type of treatment -- I would explain the situation ( minus the Subaru, which is another issue to be taken up with quickie lube ) to Audi and an Audi advocate.

    I certainly cannot assure you that all will be fixed -- but I suspect you will get satisfaction.

    Please keep us posted, as I HOPE Audi monitors this board.

    Good luck.

    PS I agree with the guy about the quickie lube -- avoid them at ALL costs. Go to a dealer.
  • Last Friday, my 5 page letter with "full quotes" from this message board and AudiWorld were mailed to Audi of America -- with a letter, from me, requesting help and resolution. While my concerns were stated, I did not "[non-permissible content removed] and moan" or threaten -- indeed I professed my enjoyment of my Audi Experiences and my intention to purhcase future Audis within a 12 - 15 month time frame (my wife) and 18+ month time frame (myself).

    Today, the service manager from Northland Audi here in Cincinnati called me to tell me that my letter had been seen and circulated within Audi. They have a "let's try this and see if it works" solution. I am not quite "delighted" -- but I am very pleased with the quick response and obvious concern -- and the obvious desire to "get it right."

    Here is what they are doing: they have a "Hunter" (brand) machine that will be "loaned" to the dealership -- this machine turns the rotors while they are HOT and ON THE CAR. The net of this is to dynamically hone the rotor in a "live" condition. Kinda like the difference between static and dynamic wheel balancing. From this point on, ANYTHING I say I will be making up, so I will not say anything more about the actual procedure.

    If this "treatment" remedies the purring or shuddering brakes, my dealership says they will actually purchase one of these Hunter machines -- so they may have it permanently. Hmmm, guess that means they suspect it will be a source of revenue (via the Audi Advantatge maybe?) and customer satisfaction.

    They said they would call me next week to tell me when to bring the car in for the "treatment." Now, one other thing, the service manager says this is "the engineers' solution" -- he said it is possible it will work and it is possible it will not work. I appreciate the candor, frankly.

    And finally, while I do feel a bit like a Guinea pig, I also feel like this is progress.
  • It was Jiffy Lube, not the brand I mentioned above. My apologies. But that is a Subie topic.

    I will keep you posted on my progress with Audi and thanks, Mark, for the great advice and support! I could very easily be a loyal "Audi Man" if given half a chance.
  • July 27, 2001

    Ms. Carol Glynn
    Audi Brand Loyalty Manager
    3800 Hamlin Road
    Auburn Hills, MI 48326

    Dear Ms. Glynn:

    I wrote to you on May 29th complimenting employees from one of your dealerships, Joseph Northland Audi, in Cincinnati. Since that time, I have had additional service experiences and they too have exceeded expectations. The people at this dealership are a "joy" to do business with.

    As I mentioned in my May 29th letter, I had been experiencing brake problems with my 2001 A6 4.2 - and as you may recall, this is my second A6 4.2 (I had a 2000 model too), and the other 4.2 also had similar problems. The dealership did replace the front rotors and later replaced the front pads. I also replaced all four tires and had a four-wheel alignment performed.

    The replacement brakes, for a while, seemed to be an improvement over the factory originals, but the problem has returned. I began a search on the Internet for new (non-OEM) brake rotors. I also began participating regularly in two Audi A6 message boards or forums as AudiWorld.com calls them. I generally "converse" with my fellow Audi owners at length about my enjoyment of Audis and my praise for Northland Audi - especially on edmunds.com town hall.

    After my concerns that my brakes, while apparently capable of stopping the car adequately, "did not feel like the brakes that should be on a car listing for over $56,000," resurfaced, I was again determined to get to the bottom of the issue. I was also resolute that I would buy (out of my own pocket), if necessary, new brakes for my 8 month old Audi. My lease still has 21 months to go, and I am dissatisfied with the brakes.

    Make no mistake; I am only dissatisfied with this one component of my experience with this car. As noted, the dealership still is ranked, by me, as a "10." The management, sales and service people are beyond reproach - nothing being said herein is any indication of dissatisfaction with them, in any way.

    Moreover, it is my intent to lease yet another Audi product within the next 18 - 21 months, as has been my pattern ever since I got my first new Audi - a 1978 Audi 5000 (from the same dealership, by the way). My wife still loves her 2001 225HP TT - and she wants another TT (her lease is up in 15 months).

    However, therefore, notwithstanding, it has become virtually a quest of mine to "get to the bottom" of the brakes on this car - as the phrase goes " . . .something just ain't right!"

    Other than repeat myself, I can think of no better, clearer or more powerful way to communicate this message than sharing the results of my Internet surfing with you. The following quotes are from two Audi Fan web sites; and, while there are certainly complaints about Audi's lightly sprinkled throughout these sites, these sites are overwhelmingly populated by people like me, people who are big fans of the Audi marquis.

    After reviewing the following posts from these Audi A6 message boards, I request your empathy and your assistance in remedying the issue (with respect to my "shuddering" front brakes).

    Thanks for your time and help. And thanks again to the great folks at Joseph Northland Audi here in Cincinnati.

    Very truly yours,

    Attachments -- directly copied quotes from edmunds and Audiworld followed -- for brevity's sake I will not reproduce them -- but I sent three pages worth and then later found many more quotes that were "dead on" the A6 (and apparently A8 and S4) issues I have (and had).

    Hope this is helpful for you, if you need to deal with the fine folks at Audi of America -- I can only speak from my experience, but THEY HAVE BEEN SUPER!
  • And. . . Audi of America's responsiveness continues to meet and exceed expectations.

    Minutes ago I received a call from Audi of America -- this call and the one from the local dealership service manager marked my second call from "Audi" today.

    They basically said the same thing that the dealer said -- but indicated they wanted to personally assure me that my letter (see above) had made the rounds within Audi and that they were going to stay on the case until the issues were resolved.

    I have owned my own business since 1985 -- my business is 100% a service business. I have found that customers or clients want perfection, may even hope for it and sometimes even EXPECT it (rarely). Yet, the realities of the world are that perfection happens rarely, very rarely -- and most of the time people accept that "things aren't always perfect." What they do EXPECT and each in their own way DEMAND is an "appropriate" response to the lack of perfection or error or product issue, etc.

    The net is: I wish Audis were perfect (like my customers wished my services were perfect), I know they will not be perfect (ditto my customers) -- I judge my vendors (as my customers judge me) not by them being perfect (or not) but how they handle the imperfections (how problems or issues are resolved). With respect to Audis, I have been and continue to be loyal to the brand (and "vote" for the brand with my dollars) not because they build perfect machines, but because of the way they treat me and deal with the issues that come up with imperfect humans and machines.

    The folks at Audi have been Extraordinary in this aspect of my relationship with them. They truly exceed expectations as a company, even in the face of selling products that sometimes break -- and they exceed expectations with great people (like Ms. Glynn, see letter above to know who I am talking about).

    Thought you'd like to know. And of course I will let you all know how the "procedure" works on my A6's brakes.
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