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Comments
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I've never purchased tires from them, but I did get the air-bags on my 3/4-ton pickup truck from them, and they also advertise their battery selection quite heavily.
I remember my Dad telling me just before going off to college in a little VW Rabbit with bald tires - go to Les Schwab - then I won't worry so much."
No - I have no connection with them at all. Just raised in a small Oregon town.
Just good people!!
I think one reason people bash CR is because CR staff aren't enthusiasts and don't test products from that point of view.
I read in Automobile Magazine where they tested the ultra performance tires. They used a Mustang Cobra as a test vehicle and did all the testing on a racetrack. It was an interesting article but how applicable is that in real life? Who drives at 10/10th's on the road? And how many of us own Mustang Cobra's?
In many ways CR tests are much more thorough because they employ many methods. Car magazines primarily use one car in one environment.
I don't read CR regularly and have only refered their reviews when evaluating appliances. My opinion is that they seem to do a great job with scientific evaluations resulting in unbiased reviews. With me, that works fine for appliances because I'm not passionate about appliances (well, maybe my Jenair range). CR doesn't take the butt-o-meter, the smell of leather, nor the wheeeeeeeee factor into account when testing automobiles. I could be wrong, but don't they test them like appliances?
This isn't a bash against CR - the methods they employ try to diminish the subjective items that enthusiasts say can't be measured. As such, CR seems to do things in a balanced way without interjecting preconceived notions that many of us might factor in.
When it comes to buying cars (the total car), I agree with a certain wheeeee factor (robr2), which I can get from the enthusiast magazines, but I need to know about reliability ratings from the recent past, and CR has that.
So it becomes a combination of the two.
I wouldn't buy a car just because Motor Trend calls it their Car of the Year, for example. From what I've been reading posted on this site, that just means I'll be seeing a lot of advertising for that model.
COY awards have a heavy dose of subjective analysis (??) in them; Styling, Value, etc.. I want OBJECTIVE reviews. Mostly because I don't always think certain models are "pretty" when the C&D or Motor Trend writer does.. Whatever happened to ROAD TEST magazine ?? It had objective tests by "car people". Was a great mag back in the late 70's..
And I just bought a set of tires based upon the ratings from "real people" in the Tire Rack website. And I am very happy with the tires. The ratings and comments are very close to the mark compared to my own experiences so far.
CR has one of the most elaborate automotive testing facilities in the world. I can't think of another publication of any type that has invested so much into a single facility. They describe it in their annual car review edition.
While I agree that it would be fun driving and writing about cars for a living, the type of testing done by enthusiast mags do not come close to what CR does.
It may not be a fair comparison as CR's mission is quite different from most car mags. You'll probably never see a review of ultra high performance tires in CR like you would never see a review of affordable all-season radials in Car & Driver. Two different audiences.
But how relative is the C&D test if you don't have that kind of car and/or do that kind of driving? It's nice that the BFG tires generates 0.2g more than a comparable Michelin, but how is that benefiting me when I'm driving home from work in a heavy rainstorm and need wet traction a million times more than high g-force ratings?
You are absolutely right - CR and CD have completely different missions and goals. I don't think I said they didn't and my comparison of them was simply that they employ different methods of testing. My post was not intended to dismiss CR. Rather, I praised them for the fact that they do a great job evaluating products in an unbiased method. As I said, I rarely consult CR. My impression is that they test automobiles the same way as appliances and laundry detergent and try to factor out the subjective influences. With automobiles, there is more to it than just unbiased testing. True, it may provide a basis for someone in their research. Nothing wrong with that - I just don't find CR personally helpful.
As for tire comparison, I admit that for the majority of people the CR report is more helpful than CD test. I don't see where I said it wasn't. If relativity to real life is the issue, then why do enthusiast publications bother to list top speed, review Porsches, and test drive battleships. Because we the consumer like to read about that stuff. Yes, the skidpad readings have little bearing in real life. But 90% of the content in those magazines would never be published if they didn't go to the extremes and tell us about it.
Once again, I have nothing against CR and those who read and refer to it. They do a very good job at what they do. For me, I prefer the input of other sources of information who take into account other factors.
It's hard to find impartial and extensive consumer-focused testing on tires. IMO, it's just too hard to do.
Reading all the info available before making a purchase is a smart thing to do. Regardless of who writes it. Every car owner needs tires but very few enter the buying process with a good education. They end up making a decision based on a sales clerks recommendation or, worse, by price.
One of the best things about Edmund's Town Hall is that it acts as another research tool for potential buyers. But since there are so few research tools available to tire buyers, I think it's unwise to dismiss one because it is not enthusiast-oriented.
I think the Tire Rack website is informative, but remember the person responding is usually comparing their worn tires to the new tires they just purchased. And because tires deteriorate gradually, 99 times out of 100 I would expect a positive evaluation on the new tire. Even IF when the old tire was new, it was better.
Also, they seldom can compare two or three new tires, they can only give an opinion on the one they purchased. If there's another tire that's much better, they didn't get a chance to try it.
I think this is where the magazine comparison tests (CR and others) are most beneficial. They are able to test all of them on a level playing field. Unfortunately, they never seem to test the class of tires I'm interested in when I need tires.
My $0.02.
Another factor when surveying buyers that affects their objectivity: Many buyers want to convince others (and themselves) that they made the right choice and spent their money wisely.
And to rehash: I think the discussion got off-track shortly ago when it was asked who among us could do the job of the enthusiast mags' writers.
Greg
I'm replacing Bridgestone RE92s and these two appear to be decent all-weather tires. TIA
You have to be a member and log in to the site, and the interface isn't the most intuitive, but it nice to shop Sam's online and compare prices.
Brands they carry are Michelin, Goodyear, BFGoodrich, and Uniroyal.
Don't forget that these two tires are Sam's Club exclusives. If you have a problem the only place to get in-warranty coverage is Sam's.
Rain traction will most likely be good with either tire, but not snow traction. Remember, both are all-season tires so everything is a comprimise. For excellent snow traction you'll need to invest in a pair of dedicated winter tires.
A friend of mine just purchased the Sport A2s for his Forester and he likes them a lot.
Ken
OK . . .
1. Nokian NRW looks real good but it comes in 225/60/16 and 225/55/16. Both tires will throw my speedometer off by about 1 mile at 60 mph.
a) Has anyone with the Forester S changed tire size by a small increment and what was your experience with it? I'm really concerned whether the larger tire will hit anything.
b) Does changing the tire size by less than 3% invalidate any warranties, in particular the power train?
c) The NRWs have a 50,000 mile warranty, but does anyone know how long they really last?
(I've also posted this on SUBARU FORESTER.)
Since I am also balking at the Nokian price (YIKES! EEK! KAPLUNK! --- the sound of me fainting!) Also Nokian considers anything in a 55 ratio a performance tire and charges 20 bucks more per pop for it. At Golden Valley Tire in Plymouth, MN, with new valves & stems, balancing & disposal, 4 NRWs will run me from the upper $500s to almost $700. As you may gather, I'm looking for alternatives.
Is there any word up on BF Goodrich Control T/A M80? Tire Rack doesn't carry it, so I can't check that way. My mechanic recommended it to me as good for my purpose, but I can't find anything on it except on the BF Goodrich page. And, BTW, it comes in my size. I know the Control T/A M65 is a great tire on snow/ice and has good handing, but does not come in my size and is not "H".
Please jump in, people.
Many thanks,
Noelle
I checked out etires and Tread Depot and came up with other tires but the Nokian's ain't cheap.
A Forester owner will know better than I but I don't think a 225 tires is gonna cause too many problems.
When determining speedo accuracy, make sure you compare tire heights not just sizes. Not all 225/60-16 tires are the same size, just like not all size 2 dresses are the same.
Sounds like you're on the fence between tire performance and price. I don't know what to suggest.
What does SEMA stand for? I'd appreciate it if you could pick up info on the BFG Control M80 and on the Cooper Lifeliner SLE, another new tire with an 80,000 mile warranty that was recommended to me by the same tire person I checked out the Nokians with. He says the tread looks really agressive on it. He says compared to the M80, the Cooper SLEs look better. Don't know if you get a chance to eyeball any of these things, but if you do, please report back.
BTW, one of the hosts on the Subaru Forester board has 225/60/16s on his Forester S, but says he has rims with a special offset that puts it further away from the springs in the back. He thinks that without the offset it might be a tight fit. The guy at Golden Valley Tire said he could put one on in that size (they actually stock Nokians) and check that out for me. I'll probably wait until I see how much more feedback I get.
Thanks again.
Noelle
Specialty Equipment Market Association
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
BFG's and Cooper's. 10-4.
1) Michelin Pilot XGT H4
2) Michelin Energy MXV4+ XSE H-Rated
3) Dunlop Sport SP A2
I have read very good reviews about the Dunlops, at the tire rack website.
Also, Is there a high amount of road noise with the Pilots ? How is the Tread Wear ?
Currently, I have 51,000 miles on my OEM Goodyear GA, without any problems. It can still go another 6000 miles but I wanted to change them before it starts snowing here.
Any help is appreciated.
Need the compromise of all season tires...tough to have that 2nd winter set.
Mxv4s probably have the advantage in the smooth ride department but thinking back I couldn't tell unless I did back to back drives in the same vehicle with each tire.
As you have found out, minivans are really rough on front tires. They really need to be rotated every 5,000 miles. But it was a minivan that I 1st tried X-ones on. It was obvious that the X-0nes wore much better than any previous tire I've owned (30 years of driving). Mxv4s were only average in wear on the 2 vehicles I used them on (wagon and sedan). (disappointing since the "Energy" compound was suppose to last longer)
Since I'm willing to pay for Michelins, I go with the long wearing tires (X-ones). You have a clear goal of a smooth quiet tire, go with MXV4.
Anyhoo, I looked at both the BFG Control T/A M80 and the Cooper Lifeliner SLE. Both are very comparable but have some differences too.
The Cooper is a new tire in their line. The rep told me it would work great in 4-season driving. The T-rated version has a 70,000 mile treadlife warranty where the H & V-rated tires only 50,000. Interestingly, the old Lifeliner STE never rated well in snow traction. Apparently Cooper is trying to improve that with the new SLE.
The BFG looks very Michelin X-One-ish. It has a 80,000 mile warranty.
Previously I made a statement that the M65 and M80 are basically the same tire but different warranties. I was wrong, they are a bit different. The BFG folks said the M65 maight provide a bit better snow traction where the M80 was designed to be a smooth, fairly quiet tire with long tread life.
Hope all this helps. Let us know what you decide.
Now CART will be linked closer to Formula One where Bridgestone is widely used.
The Dayton line will no longer be involved in racing with the demise of the Dayton Indy Lights series.
Would you believe my mechanic put BFG Control TA M/80s on his van last January. He says he hasn't had any problems, but he doesn't drive the van that much. His kids on the other hand, drove the van very often when they had no money for gas. His daughter drove to Sioux Falls last January in a snowstorm and got stuck. Now, of course, she was trying to drive through 8-10" of unplowed snow in a van. I figure I'd have better luck in my Forester.
The guy at Golden Valley Tire took a look at both the M/80s and the Cooper SLE and said to get the Cooper. I do wonder if his commission is higher on the Cooper or if it was an honest opinion. After talking to a few dealers, I found out that the Cooper Lifeliner SLE started selling in this area around March 2001 and there is no word-of-mouth about this tire on snow. Of course, all the Cooper sales reps say "It's great on snow."
I'm gonna take your advice and call the guy at Golden Valley Tire tommorrow and see if he'll do the fitment for the Nokian NRW in 225/60/16. Golden Valley carries a lot of different tires. If the 225s fit just fine, it will open up my choices a bit, although I may still end up with the Nokians. My mechanic pointed out to me that with my all-wheel drive I should still come out pretty good even if the tire I choose does not have the very best snow traction.
So much for my saga. Thanks again and I'll keep ya posted.
Both have performed well in winter driving conditions and will perform fine during those few months the salt trucks are parked.
Oh, and slap a coat of wax on those wheels. The salt will eat the clearcoat post haste. Even the spray waxes are OK if you apply it a few times during the winter.
They did set the tire pressure too high, though. (37-38.5) I can see them not setting it to the ridiculously low number on the door of the Forester (29 front & back), but at least they could have come out & asked me. I'll wait till the morning when the tires are cold and let some air out to 34 psi. Ride feels much more stable and less bouncy that it did with the Yoko Geos, though.
My second choice if the Nokias did not fit or if anything goes wrong, is going to be the BFG Control TA M/80.
Thanks again for your help, Bretfraz. And if Ken is lurking out there, thanks for the great advice.
Regards,
Noelle
Let us all know how the Nokian's perform in the snow and slush. It's a tire that gets a lot of talk but not too many folks actually own them. Be nice to read some first-hand commentary.
Enjoy the Forester.
- - Bret - -
Wow! So you went with the Nokians after all. That's great -- you must be happy.
Please keep us informed on it's performance along all types of weather. I'm really interested in how different they are compared to the Geos. I might even get a set myself. BTW, how much were they before installation?
Ken
I'm assuming your Civic has the OE Firestone FR480's in 185/65-14. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
What Michelin did you ask for? The Michelin Rainforce MX4 and the X-One are excellent wet-weather tires. Both would be superior choices.
The Goodyear Regatta 2 can be bought at any Penske Auto Center inside K-Mart. If you have a Sam's Club membership, they offer a private label version of the Regatta 2 called the Allegra. Same basic tire.