edwinfong: Les Schwab has been selling tires in the Pacific Northwest since at least 1973, probably a lot earlier. The company has many outlets all over Oregon and Washington (at least), even in some smaller towns.
Les Schwab has lots of stores in Boise too. I have a buddy with a 4x4 pickup and he gets his summer and winter tires there. They switch his studded tires back on forth twice a year for free, so he's pretty happy with Les. Steve Host Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Les Schwab stores are about as common as slugs here in the Northwest. If you go to their Web site and look at their locator map, they have stores all over Washington, Oregon, Idaho, western Montana, northern California and Nevada, and in Alaska, too. The thing about them is that they don't have stores only in the big cities - just about any place that has two gas stations and a grocery store seems to have a Les Schwab too. According to their Web site, they started in 1952 in Prineville, Oregon, so I guess they feel their roots are in the smaller rural communities.
I've never purchased tires from them, but I did get the air-bags on my 3/4-ton pickup truck from them, and they also advertise their battery selection quite heavily.
best SUV tires out there IMO are pirelli scorpion AT and the dunlop radial rover P metric.Had them both on my 98jimmy i prefer the pirelli over the dunlops cause i got better traction in the snow, but on the other hand the dunlops weren't so bad either and they also had a slightly better tread life but were not as quite as the pirelli. anyway there's my 2cents in this discusion any opinions are welcome.
These guys are top notch on customer service. They do all repairs, free. Rotate your tires, free, change a flat, free - no matter where you are!! They come to you. When you drive up, they run out to your car before you can get the door open. They are extremely fast. I remember my Dad telling me just before going off to college in a little VW Rabbit with bald tires - go to Les Schwab - then I won't worry so much." No - I have no connection with them at all. Just raised in a small Oregon town. Just good people!!
I bought the November issue of Consumer Reports which has the tire comparison in it--I am such a nerd! They really liked the Michelin X-One. On another note, they also compared the Jaguar S-Type, BMW 530i, Audi A6 2.7tq, and Mercedes E320. As much as everyone around here chastises CR, the results were very similar to what I would expect from Edmund's, except I think they would have forgiven the Audi's turbo lag and rated it higher.
I think they provide an extremely valuable service. And their testing procedures and methods are second to none.
I think one reason people bash CR is because CR staff aren't enthusiasts and don't test products from that point of view.
I read in Automobile Magazine where they tested the ultra performance tires. They used a Mustang Cobra as a test vehicle and did all the testing on a racetrack. It was an interesting article but how applicable is that in real life? Who drives at 10/10th's on the road? And how many of us own Mustang Cobra's?
In many ways CR tests are much more thorough because they employ many methods. Car magazines primarily use one car in one environment.
I think those of us who read Automobile, CD, RT, Autoweek and contribute here consider ourselves to be enthusiasts. Further, we would like to think that given the opportunity to test high performance tires on a Cobra on a race track at 10/10ths we would/could do it in a heartbeat. How many of us have thought we could do Jamie Kitman's or Brock Yates' job???
I don't read CR regularly and have only refered their reviews when evaluating appliances. My opinion is that they seem to do a great job with scientific evaluations resulting in unbiased reviews. With me, that works fine for appliances because I'm not passionate about appliances (well, maybe my Jenair range). CR doesn't take the butt-o-meter, the smell of leather, nor the wheeeeeeeee factor into account when testing automobiles. I could be wrong, but don't they test them like appliances?
This isn't a bash against CR - the methods they employ try to diminish the subjective items that enthusiasts say can't be measured. As such, CR seems to do things in a balanced way without interjecting preconceived notions that many of us might factor in.
I like that CR tests everything like appliances. When I'm looking to buy tires, I want the most scientific, dispassionate results I can get - as bretfraz says, I'm not going to push to 10/10ths.
When it comes to buying cars (the total car), I agree with a certain wheeeee factor (robr2), which I can get from the enthusiast magazines, but I need to know about reliability ratings from the recent past, and CR has that.
So it becomes a combination of the two.
I wouldn't buy a car just because Motor Trend calls it their Car of the Year, for example. From what I've been reading posted on this site, that just means I'll be seeing a lot of advertising for that model.
can often be a wolf in sheeps clothing. I bought one once, not because it was the car of the year, it was just coincidence! I would still be kicking myself 15 years later if I had justified buying it because it was rated by one of the enthusiast mags as COY.. It, along with 30% of all of them sold, had a major transmission problem. CR may have missed it too, but then again, they might have noted that it was a brand new transmission and may have warned the readers. Maybe not.. COY awards have a heavy dose of subjective analysis (??) in them; Styling, Value, etc.. I want OBJECTIVE reviews. Mostly because I don't always think certain models are "pretty" when the C&D or Motor Trend writer does.. Whatever happened to ROAD TEST magazine ?? It had objective tests by "car people". Was a great mag back in the late 70's.. And I just bought a set of tires based upon the ratings from "real people" in the Tire Rack website. And I am very happy with the tires. The ratings and comments are very close to the mark compared to my own experiences so far.
My owner's manual calls for a tire rotation every 10,000 miles. Here's my question: Assuming this schedule is followed, wouldn't you be switching a set of evenly worn tires at 20,000 miles? If so, what is the purpose? Thanks in advance.
I still subscribe to Autoweek as well as Sports Car Market, and am a former sub to the three mags you mentioned as well as many others.
CR has one of the most elaborate automotive testing facilities in the world. I can't think of another publication of any type that has invested so much into a single facility. They describe it in their annual car review edition.
While I agree that it would be fun driving and writing about cars for a living, the type of testing done by enthusiast mags do not come close to what CR does.
It may not be a fair comparison as CR's mission is quite different from most car mags. You'll probably never see a review of ultra high performance tires in CR like you would never see a review of affordable all-season radials in Car & Driver. Two different audiences.
But how relative is the C&D test if you don't have that kind of car and/or do that kind of driving? It's nice that the BFG tires generates 0.2g more than a comparable Michelin, but how is that benefiting me when I'm driving home from work in a heavy rainstorm and need wet traction a million times more than high g-force ratings?
You are absolutely right - CR and CD have completely different missions and goals. I don't think I said they didn't and my comparison of them was simply that they employ different methods of testing. My post was not intended to dismiss CR. Rather, I praised them for the fact that they do a great job evaluating products in an unbiased method. As I said, I rarely consult CR. My impression is that they test automobiles the same way as appliances and laundry detergent and try to factor out the subjective influences. With automobiles, there is more to it than just unbiased testing. True, it may provide a basis for someone in their research. Nothing wrong with that - I just don't find CR personally helpful.
As for tire comparison, I admit that for the majority of people the CR report is more helpful than CD test. I don't see where I said it wasn't. If relativity to real life is the issue, then why do enthusiast publications bother to list top speed, review Porsches, and test drive battleships. Because we the consumer like to read about that stuff. Yes, the skidpad readings have little bearing in real life. But 90% of the content in those magazines would never be published if they didn't go to the extremes and tell us about it.
Once again, I have nothing against CR and those who read and refer to it. They do a very good job at what they do. For me, I prefer the input of other sources of information who take into account other factors.
And I didn't feel you attacked CR nor am I defending them. I'm certainly not attacking you and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
It's hard to find impartial and extensive consumer-focused testing on tires. IMO, it's just too hard to do.
Reading all the info available before making a purchase is a smart thing to do. Regardless of who writes it. Every car owner needs tires but very few enter the buying process with a good education. They end up making a decision based on a sales clerks recommendation or, worse, by price.
One of the best things about Edmund's Town Hall is that it acts as another research tool for potential buyers. But since there are so few research tools available to tire buyers, I think it's unwise to dismiss one because it is not enthusiast-oriented.
Most information is helpful. However, it is important to consider the source and how the data is gathered.
I think the Tire Rack website is informative, but remember the person responding is usually comparing their worn tires to the new tires they just purchased. And because tires deteriorate gradually, 99 times out of 100 I would expect a positive evaluation on the new tire. Even IF when the old tire was new, it was better.
Also, they seldom can compare two or three new tires, they can only give an opinion on the one they purchased. If there's another tire that's much better, they didn't get a chance to try it.
I think this is where the magazine comparison tests (CR and others) are most beneficial. They are able to test all of them on a level playing field. Unfortunately, they never seem to test the class of tires I'm interested in when I need tires.
Another factor when surveying buyers that affects their objectivity: Many buyers want to convince others (and themselves) that they made the right choice and spent their money wisely.
And to rehash: I think the discussion got off-track shortly ago when it was asked who among us could do the job of the enthusiast mags' writers.
Hello. I was wondering if anyone could give me any suggestions on tires for a 1997 GMC Sonoma Regular cab shortbed 2wd. I currently have the P205/75R15 Tiger Paws on 15x7 in aluminum wheels. I'm looking for some tires that will perform well on-road and in wet conditions and will provide good tread wear. Also was thinking about getting some wider tires too, maybe · P225/75R15 or so. Not sure what is the widest tires I can install. So if anyone could help me in getting good tires at a reasonable price, let me know... Thanks
They just introduced a new feature letting club members search and order tires from Sam's inventory. You can look at what's in stock at your local whse or place an order to be picked up. You can place a special order for a tires the whse's normally don't stock. Every tire is priced.
You have to be a member and log in to the site, and the interface isn't the most intuitive, but it nice to shop Sam's online and compare prices.
Brands they carry are Michelin, Goodyear, BFGoodrich, and Uniroyal.
I have narrowed down some tires for my 97 Maxima SE. The two tires that I am considering are the Dunlop Sport A2 and the Mich Energy MXV4+. I am looking for a superior ride and excellent rain/snow traction. I am leaning toward the Dunlop's because of the great reviews from satisfied customers at the Tire Rack web sight. Anybody have any experience with either? Please help I need to get a set VERY SOON. Thanks
The Dunlops will probably be more of a sporty tire based on the design. The Michelins are more a "luxury touring tire" and will provide a quieter, but less responsive ride.
Rain traction will most likely be good with either tire, but not snow traction. Remember, both are all-season tires so everything is a comprimise. For excellent snow traction you'll need to invest in a pair of dedicated winter tires.
A friend of mine just purchased the Sport A2s for his Forester and he likes them a lot.
As they are new tires as of a few months ago, no consumers have really had them out in much snow as of yet I would think. Tirerack definitely liked them in the wet and dry. I would expect them to be average all season tires in the snow.
Thanks for all the great info, Ken & Bretfaz. Here's where I'm at now. For folks who haven't read my previous posts, I need to have all seasons 'cz I don't have the room to store winter tires, I live in Minneapolis and own a Subaru Forester S. After doing much research I've found that there is very little available with great snow traction and decent handling in my size, 215/60/16. I've also become a bit of a "mudder" in my old age, and I'd like to continue doing that. I'd also like to keep my H rating.
OK . . . 1. Nokian NRW looks real good but it comes in 225/60/16 and 225/55/16. Both tires will throw my speedometer off by about 1 mile at 60 mph. a) Has anyone with the Forester S changed tire size by a small increment and what was your experience with it? I'm really concerned whether the larger tire will hit anything. b) Does changing the tire size by less than 3% invalidate any warranties, in particular the power train? c) The NRWs have a 50,000 mile warranty, but does anyone know how long they really last? (I've also posted this on SUBARU FORESTER.)
Since I am also balking at the Nokian price (YIKES! EEK! KAPLUNK! --- the sound of me fainting!) Also Nokian considers anything in a 55 ratio a performance tire and charges 20 bucks more per pop for it. At Golden Valley Tire in Plymouth, MN, with new valves & stems, balancing & disposal, 4 NRWs will run me from the upper $500s to almost $700. As you may gather, I'm looking for alternatives.
Is there any word up on BF Goodrich Control T/A M80? Tire Rack doesn't carry it, so I can't check that way. My mechanic recommended it to me as good for my purpose, but I can't find anything on it except on the BF Goodrich page. And, BTW, it comes in my size. I know the Control T/A M65 is a great tire on snow/ice and has good handing, but does not come in my size and is not "H".
IIRC, the Control M80's and the M65's are about the same. The big diff is in the treadlife warranty; 80K vs. 65K.
I checked out etires and Tread Depot and came up with other tires but the Nokian's ain't cheap.
A Forester owner will know better than I but I don't think a 225 tires is gonna cause too many problems.
When determining speedo accuracy, make sure you compare tire heights not just sizes. Not all 225/60-16 tires are the same size, just like not all size 2 dresses are the same.
Sounds like you're on the fence between tire performance and price. I don't know what to suggest.
I'm off to the SEMA show tomorrow. I'll pick up a bunch of info from the mfr's and distributors. LMK if you want specific info on a specific tire and I'll try to get it for you.
What does SEMA stand for? I'd appreciate it if you could pick up info on the BFG Control M80 and on the Cooper Lifeliner SLE, another new tire with an 80,000 mile warranty that was recommended to me by the same tire person I checked out the Nokians with. He says the tread looks really agressive on it. He says compared to the M80, the Cooper SLEs look better. Don't know if you get a chance to eyeball any of these things, but if you do, please report back.
BTW, one of the hosts on the Subaru Forester board has 225/60/16s on his Forester S, but says he has rims with a special offset that puts it further away from the springs in the back. He thinks that without the offset it might be a tight fit. The guy at Golden Valley Tire said he could put one on in that size (they actually stock Nokians) and check that out for me. I'll probably wait until I see how much more feedback I get.
If that tire store will mount s 225 tire to check fitment, I'd have that done. Then you or the tire installer can measure how much clearance you'll have with the wider tire. My guess is that you'll be OK. The 225 tire is about 1/2" wider section width. But it always pays to check.
After going through most of this thread, I couldn't really answer this question for my particular situation. I recently purchased a '01 Mazda MPV that came with Yoko 205/65/15 376's. They have 13K miles, but had never been rotated. The fronts were fairly worn, but still have some life. The backs look good. They've been rotated and re-balanced twice by the dealer because I am having this annoying vibration problem and I'm about ready to buy some Michelin's. I have the factory set of MXV4+ on my '00 Accord and that has got to be the smoothest, quietest ride I've ever felt. So, that's the question: which of these two tires are best for the MPV, keeping in mind that I prefer the smooth and quiet ride?
I put Michelin X Ones on my Saturn LW200 to replace the horrible noisy Firestone Affinity OEMs. The X Ones are quiet and smooth at the manufacturer's recommended 30 PSI but overinflating them a bit higher makes them noisier without improving the handling so I keep them at the recommended pressure. They handle well, have excellent wet and dry traction and are pretty quiet to my ears (can talk normally and listen to the radio quietly at freeway speeds -- wind noise is more noticable with the wagon's roofracks). I'm going to try them in the snow before deciding whether or not I need a set of Arctic Alpins for winter.
I was trying to decide between the following tires for my 98 Concorde Lxi. A bit of snow driving is also involved.
1) Michelin Pilot XGT H4 2) Michelin Energy MXV4+ XSE H-Rated 3) Dunlop Sport SP A2
I have read very good reviews about the Dunlops, at the tire rack website.
Also, Is there a high amount of road noise with the Pilots ? How is the Tread Wear ?
Currently, I have 51,000 miles on my OEM Goodyear GA, without any problems. It can still go another 6000 miles but I wanted to change them before it starts snowing here.
I replaced the OEM General crap on my Taurus with a set of Michelin Pilot XGT H4s. The car sticks like glue to the road and they are showing no treadwear (I have 10k on them, rotated at 5k). The car feels very secure with this rubber. I recomend these tires.
I've had a couple sets of each but not on the same vehicles.
Mxv4s probably have the advantage in the smooth ride department but thinking back I couldn't tell unless I did back to back drives in the same vehicle with each tire.
As you have found out, minivans are really rough on front tires. They really need to be rotated every 5,000 miles. But it was a minivan that I 1st tried X-ones on. It was obvious that the X-0nes wore much better than any previous tire I've owned (30 years of driving). Mxv4s were only average in wear on the 2 vehicles I used them on (wagon and sedan). (disappointing since the "Energy" compound was suppose to last longer)
Since I'm willing to pay for Michelins, I go with the long wearing tires (X-ones). You have a clear goal of a smooth quiet tire, go with MXV4.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. A week in Vegas and all kinds of stuff is piling up.... ;-)
Anyhoo, I looked at both the BFG Control T/A M80 and the Cooper Lifeliner SLE. Both are very comparable but have some differences too.
The Cooper is a new tire in their line. The rep told me it would work great in 4-season driving. The T-rated version has a 70,000 mile treadlife warranty where the H & V-rated tires only 50,000. Interestingly, the old Lifeliner STE never rated well in snow traction. Apparently Cooper is trying to improve that with the new SLE.
The BFG looks very Michelin X-One-ish. It has a 80,000 mile warranty.
Previously I made a statement that the M65 and M80 are basically the same tire but different warranties. I was wrong, they are a bit different. The BFG folks said the M65 maight provide a bit better snow traction where the M80 was designed to be a smooth, fairly quiet tire with long tread life.
At SEMA Bridgestone announced that the Firestone brand will be replaced in the CART series by the Bridgestone brand. They made the announcement at their booth on Tuesday with Michael Andretti.
Now CART will be linked closer to Formula One where Bridgestone is widely used.
The Dayton line will no longer be involved in racing with the demise of the Dayton Indy Lights series.
Good to hear from you. Thanks for augmenting my research on the BFGs and Cooper SLE by eyeballing both of those tires and talking to the reps. It's nice to have an opinion from a person with an experienced eye.
Would you believe my mechanic put BFG Control TA M/80s on his van last January. He says he hasn't had any problems, but he doesn't drive the van that much. His kids on the other hand, drove the van very often when they had no money for gas. His daughter drove to Sioux Falls last January in a snowstorm and got stuck. Now, of course, she was trying to drive through 8-10" of unplowed snow in a van. I figure I'd have better luck in my Forester.
The guy at Golden Valley Tire took a look at both the M/80s and the Cooper SLE and said to get the Cooper. I do wonder if his commission is higher on the Cooper or if it was an honest opinion. After talking to a few dealers, I found out that the Cooper Lifeliner SLE started selling in this area around March 2001 and there is no word-of-mouth about this tire on snow. Of course, all the Cooper sales reps say "It's great on snow."
I'm gonna take your advice and call the guy at Golden Valley Tire tommorrow and see if he'll do the fitment for the Nokian NRW in 225/60/16. Golden Valley carries a lot of different tires. If the 225s fit just fine, it will open up my choices a bit, although I may still end up with the Nokians. My mechanic pointed out to me that with my all-wheel drive I should still come out pretty good even if the tire I choose does not have the very best snow traction.
So much for my saga. Thanks again and I'll keep ya posted.
I have these tires on my 2000 Odyssey and have experienced two winters in Calgary Alberta including many ski trips to the mountains. I was very impressed when new and I still think they are pretty good in snow and slush. I don't think they are great on ice and because of that I am shopping for a good ice radial - maybe the Toyo Observe or Arctic Alpin.
I will be replacing my OEM symmety tires on my 99 Odyssey as the tread didn't last. I did have the tires rotated on a regular basis and do drive cautiously. Several tire dealers have recommended the Michelin X One or Pirelli P3000. I've heard some good comments for the Michelin but does anyone have any comments on the Pirelli? The Canadian winter is coming and the majority of the driving will not be on snow covered roads...plenty of salt...got to protect those aluminum rims.
You may want to include the BFGoodrich Control T/A M80 or M65 and the Goodyear Regatta 2.
Both have performed well in winter driving conditions and will perform fine during those few months the salt trucks are parked.
Oh, and slap a coat of wax on those wheels. The salt will eat the clearcoat post haste. Even the spray waxes are OK if you apply it a few times during the winter.
Guess what? I'm wearing the Nokians!! Size 225/60/16, with 1/4" to spare from the struts in the back. Front has plenty of room, haven't detected any rubbing yet. Dave at Golden Valley Tire did quite a bit of checking before he did the fitment. Dave knew it would be tight, but says he's seen these things vary from car to car in the same model. Said if I have any problems, come on back!! I will have to pick up a spare in the same size & speed rating, but it doesn't have to be a Nokia.
They did set the tire pressure too high, though. (37-38.5) I can see them not setting it to the ridiculously low number on the door of the Forester (29 front & back), but at least they could have come out & asked me. I'll wait till the morning when the tires are cold and let some air out to 34 psi. Ride feels much more stable and less bouncy that it did with the Yoko Geos, though.
My second choice if the Nokias did not fit or if anything goes wrong, is going to be the BFG Control TA M/80.
Thanks again for your help, Bretfraz. And if Ken is lurking out there, thanks for the great advice.
Let us all know how the Nokian's perform in the snow and slush. It's a tire that gets a lot of talk but not too many folks actually own them. Be nice to read some first-hand commentary.
Wow! So you went with the Nokians after all. That's great -- you must be happy.
Please keep us informed on it's performance along all types of weather. I'm really interested in how different they are compared to the Geos. I might even get a set myself. BTW, how much were they before installation?
The original equipment tires on my 1999 Civic EX need replaced after 67,000 miles. They are 65R14 Firestones. I'm looking for tires that will offer better handling and ride, along with decent wet weather traction and 60,000 tread life. When I called the local tire shop (which seemed to offer the best combination of price and service), I originally asked for Michelins, but the technician said they don't offer good wet weather traction, so he doesn't carry them anymore. I decided to order four Goodyear Regattas and set up an appointment for this Monday (because it's a holiday and I'm off work), but about 30 minutes later the owner called back and said he couldn't get those in by Monday and tried to sell me four Toyos instead. Has anyone heard about this brand? At this point I'm inclined to go somewhere else.
Well, it's difficult to offer specific advice unless we know exactly what Toyo model is being offered and in what size.
I'm assuming your Civic has the OE Firestone FR480's in 185/65-14. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
What Michelin did you ask for? The Michelin Rainforce MX4 and the X-One are excellent wet-weather tires. Both would be superior choices.
The Goodyear Regatta 2 can be bought at any Penske Auto Center inside K-Mart. If you have a Sam's Club membership, they offer a private label version of the Regatta 2 called the Allegra. Same basic tire.
Comments
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I've never purchased tires from them, but I did get the air-bags on my 3/4-ton pickup truck from them, and they also advertise their battery selection quite heavily.
I remember my Dad telling me just before going off to college in a little VW Rabbit with bald tires - go to Les Schwab - then I won't worry so much."
No - I have no connection with them at all. Just raised in a small Oregon town.
Just good people!!
I think one reason people bash CR is because CR staff aren't enthusiasts and don't test products from that point of view.
I read in Automobile Magazine where they tested the ultra performance tires. They used a Mustang Cobra as a test vehicle and did all the testing on a racetrack. It was an interesting article but how applicable is that in real life? Who drives at 10/10th's on the road? And how many of us own Mustang Cobra's?
In many ways CR tests are much more thorough because they employ many methods. Car magazines primarily use one car in one environment.
I don't read CR regularly and have only refered their reviews when evaluating appliances. My opinion is that they seem to do a great job with scientific evaluations resulting in unbiased reviews. With me, that works fine for appliances because I'm not passionate about appliances (well, maybe my Jenair range). CR doesn't take the butt-o-meter, the smell of leather, nor the wheeeeeeeee factor into account when testing automobiles. I could be wrong, but don't they test them like appliances?
This isn't a bash against CR - the methods they employ try to diminish the subjective items that enthusiasts say can't be measured. As such, CR seems to do things in a balanced way without interjecting preconceived notions that many of us might factor in.
When it comes to buying cars (the total car), I agree with a certain wheeeee factor (robr2), which I can get from the enthusiast magazines, but I need to know about reliability ratings from the recent past, and CR has that.
So it becomes a combination of the two.
I wouldn't buy a car just because Motor Trend calls it their Car of the Year, for example. From what I've been reading posted on this site, that just means I'll be seeing a lot of advertising for that model.
COY awards have a heavy dose of subjective analysis (??) in them; Styling, Value, etc.. I want OBJECTIVE reviews. Mostly because I don't always think certain models are "pretty" when the C&D or Motor Trend writer does.. Whatever happened to ROAD TEST magazine ?? It had objective tests by "car people". Was a great mag back in the late 70's..
And I just bought a set of tires based upon the ratings from "real people" in the Tire Rack website. And I am very happy with the tires. The ratings and comments are very close to the mark compared to my own experiences so far.
CR has one of the most elaborate automotive testing facilities in the world. I can't think of another publication of any type that has invested so much into a single facility. They describe it in their annual car review edition.
While I agree that it would be fun driving and writing about cars for a living, the type of testing done by enthusiast mags do not come close to what CR does.
It may not be a fair comparison as CR's mission is quite different from most car mags. You'll probably never see a review of ultra high performance tires in CR like you would never see a review of affordable all-season radials in Car & Driver. Two different audiences.
But how relative is the C&D test if you don't have that kind of car and/or do that kind of driving? It's nice that the BFG tires generates 0.2g more than a comparable Michelin, but how is that benefiting me when I'm driving home from work in a heavy rainstorm and need wet traction a million times more than high g-force ratings?
You are absolutely right - CR and CD have completely different missions and goals. I don't think I said they didn't and my comparison of them was simply that they employ different methods of testing. My post was not intended to dismiss CR. Rather, I praised them for the fact that they do a great job evaluating products in an unbiased method. As I said, I rarely consult CR. My impression is that they test automobiles the same way as appliances and laundry detergent and try to factor out the subjective influences. With automobiles, there is more to it than just unbiased testing. True, it may provide a basis for someone in their research. Nothing wrong with that - I just don't find CR personally helpful.
As for tire comparison, I admit that for the majority of people the CR report is more helpful than CD test. I don't see where I said it wasn't. If relativity to real life is the issue, then why do enthusiast publications bother to list top speed, review Porsches, and test drive battleships. Because we the consumer like to read about that stuff. Yes, the skidpad readings have little bearing in real life. But 90% of the content in those magazines would never be published if they didn't go to the extremes and tell us about it.
Once again, I have nothing against CR and those who read and refer to it. They do a very good job at what they do. For me, I prefer the input of other sources of information who take into account other factors.
It's hard to find impartial and extensive consumer-focused testing on tires. IMO, it's just too hard to do.
Reading all the info available before making a purchase is a smart thing to do. Regardless of who writes it. Every car owner needs tires but very few enter the buying process with a good education. They end up making a decision based on a sales clerks recommendation or, worse, by price.
One of the best things about Edmund's Town Hall is that it acts as another research tool for potential buyers. But since there are so few research tools available to tire buyers, I think it's unwise to dismiss one because it is not enthusiast-oriented.
I think the Tire Rack website is informative, but remember the person responding is usually comparing their worn tires to the new tires they just purchased. And because tires deteriorate gradually, 99 times out of 100 I would expect a positive evaluation on the new tire. Even IF when the old tire was new, it was better.
Also, they seldom can compare two or three new tires, they can only give an opinion on the one they purchased. If there's another tire that's much better, they didn't get a chance to try it.
I think this is where the magazine comparison tests (CR and others) are most beneficial. They are able to test all of them on a level playing field. Unfortunately, they never seem to test the class of tires I'm interested in when I need tires.
My $0.02.
Another factor when surveying buyers that affects their objectivity: Many buyers want to convince others (and themselves) that they made the right choice and spent their money wisely.
And to rehash: I think the discussion got off-track shortly ago when it was asked who among us could do the job of the enthusiast mags' writers.
Greg
I'm replacing Bridgestone RE92s and these two appear to be decent all-weather tires. TIA
You have to be a member and log in to the site, and the interface isn't the most intuitive, but it nice to shop Sam's online and compare prices.
Brands they carry are Michelin, Goodyear, BFGoodrich, and Uniroyal.
Don't forget that these two tires are Sam's Club exclusives. If you have a problem the only place to get in-warranty coverage is Sam's.
Rain traction will most likely be good with either tire, but not snow traction. Remember, both are all-season tires so everything is a comprimise. For excellent snow traction you'll need to invest in a pair of dedicated winter tires.
A friend of mine just purchased the Sport A2s for his Forester and he likes them a lot.
Ken
OK . . .
1. Nokian NRW looks real good but it comes in 225/60/16 and 225/55/16. Both tires will throw my speedometer off by about 1 mile at 60 mph.
a) Has anyone with the Forester S changed tire size by a small increment and what was your experience with it? I'm really concerned whether the larger tire will hit anything.
b) Does changing the tire size by less than 3% invalidate any warranties, in particular the power train?
c) The NRWs have a 50,000 mile warranty, but does anyone know how long they really last?
(I've also posted this on SUBARU FORESTER.)
Since I am also balking at the Nokian price (YIKES! EEK! KAPLUNK! --- the sound of me fainting!) Also Nokian considers anything in a 55 ratio a performance tire and charges 20 bucks more per pop for it. At Golden Valley Tire in Plymouth, MN, with new valves & stems, balancing & disposal, 4 NRWs will run me from the upper $500s to almost $700. As you may gather, I'm looking for alternatives.
Is there any word up on BF Goodrich Control T/A M80? Tire Rack doesn't carry it, so I can't check that way. My mechanic recommended it to me as good for my purpose, but I can't find anything on it except on the BF Goodrich page. And, BTW, it comes in my size. I know the Control T/A M65 is a great tire on snow/ice and has good handing, but does not come in my size and is not "H".
Please jump in, people.
Many thanks,
Noelle
I checked out etires and Tread Depot and came up with other tires but the Nokian's ain't cheap.
A Forester owner will know better than I but I don't think a 225 tires is gonna cause too many problems.
When determining speedo accuracy, make sure you compare tire heights not just sizes. Not all 225/60-16 tires are the same size, just like not all size 2 dresses are the same.
Sounds like you're on the fence between tire performance and price. I don't know what to suggest.
What does SEMA stand for? I'd appreciate it if you could pick up info on the BFG Control M80 and on the Cooper Lifeliner SLE, another new tire with an 80,000 mile warranty that was recommended to me by the same tire person I checked out the Nokians with. He says the tread looks really agressive on it. He says compared to the M80, the Cooper SLEs look better. Don't know if you get a chance to eyeball any of these things, but if you do, please report back.
BTW, one of the hosts on the Subaru Forester board has 225/60/16s on his Forester S, but says he has rims with a special offset that puts it further away from the springs in the back. He thinks that without the offset it might be a tight fit. The guy at Golden Valley Tire said he could put one on in that size (they actually stock Nokians) and check that out for me. I'll probably wait until I see how much more feedback I get.
Thanks again.
Noelle
Specialty Equipment Market Association
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
BFG's and Cooper's. 10-4.
1) Michelin Pilot XGT H4
2) Michelin Energy MXV4+ XSE H-Rated
3) Dunlop Sport SP A2
I have read very good reviews about the Dunlops, at the tire rack website.
Also, Is there a high amount of road noise with the Pilots ? How is the Tread Wear ?
Currently, I have 51,000 miles on my OEM Goodyear GA, without any problems. It can still go another 6000 miles but I wanted to change them before it starts snowing here.
Any help is appreciated.
Need the compromise of all season tires...tough to have that 2nd winter set.
Mxv4s probably have the advantage in the smooth ride department but thinking back I couldn't tell unless I did back to back drives in the same vehicle with each tire.
As you have found out, minivans are really rough on front tires. They really need to be rotated every 5,000 miles. But it was a minivan that I 1st tried X-ones on. It was obvious that the X-0nes wore much better than any previous tire I've owned (30 years of driving). Mxv4s were only average in wear on the 2 vehicles I used them on (wagon and sedan). (disappointing since the "Energy" compound was suppose to last longer)
Since I'm willing to pay for Michelins, I go with the long wearing tires (X-ones). You have a clear goal of a smooth quiet tire, go with MXV4.
Anyhoo, I looked at both the BFG Control T/A M80 and the Cooper Lifeliner SLE. Both are very comparable but have some differences too.
The Cooper is a new tire in their line. The rep told me it would work great in 4-season driving. The T-rated version has a 70,000 mile treadlife warranty where the H & V-rated tires only 50,000. Interestingly, the old Lifeliner STE never rated well in snow traction. Apparently Cooper is trying to improve that with the new SLE.
The BFG looks very Michelin X-One-ish. It has a 80,000 mile warranty.
Previously I made a statement that the M65 and M80 are basically the same tire but different warranties. I was wrong, they are a bit different. The BFG folks said the M65 maight provide a bit better snow traction where the M80 was designed to be a smooth, fairly quiet tire with long tread life.
Hope all this helps. Let us know what you decide.
Now CART will be linked closer to Formula One where Bridgestone is widely used.
The Dayton line will no longer be involved in racing with the demise of the Dayton Indy Lights series.
Would you believe my mechanic put BFG Control TA M/80s on his van last January. He says he hasn't had any problems, but he doesn't drive the van that much. His kids on the other hand, drove the van very often when they had no money for gas. His daughter drove to Sioux Falls last January in a snowstorm and got stuck. Now, of course, she was trying to drive through 8-10" of unplowed snow in a van. I figure I'd have better luck in my Forester.
The guy at Golden Valley Tire took a look at both the M/80s and the Cooper SLE and said to get the Cooper. I do wonder if his commission is higher on the Cooper or if it was an honest opinion. After talking to a few dealers, I found out that the Cooper Lifeliner SLE started selling in this area around March 2001 and there is no word-of-mouth about this tire on snow. Of course, all the Cooper sales reps say "It's great on snow."
I'm gonna take your advice and call the guy at Golden Valley Tire tommorrow and see if he'll do the fitment for the Nokian NRW in 225/60/16. Golden Valley carries a lot of different tires. If the 225s fit just fine, it will open up my choices a bit, although I may still end up with the Nokians. My mechanic pointed out to me that with my all-wheel drive I should still come out pretty good even if the tire I choose does not have the very best snow traction.
So much for my saga. Thanks again and I'll keep ya posted.
Both have performed well in winter driving conditions and will perform fine during those few months the salt trucks are parked.
Oh, and slap a coat of wax on those wheels. The salt will eat the clearcoat post haste. Even the spray waxes are OK if you apply it a few times during the winter.
They did set the tire pressure too high, though. (37-38.5) I can see them not setting it to the ridiculously low number on the door of the Forester (29 front & back), but at least they could have come out & asked me. I'll wait till the morning when the tires are cold and let some air out to 34 psi. Ride feels much more stable and less bouncy that it did with the Yoko Geos, though.
My second choice if the Nokias did not fit or if anything goes wrong, is going to be the BFG Control TA M/80.
Thanks again for your help, Bretfraz. And if Ken is lurking out there, thanks for the great advice.
Regards,
Noelle
Let us all know how the Nokian's perform in the snow and slush. It's a tire that gets a lot of talk but not too many folks actually own them. Be nice to read some first-hand commentary.
Enjoy the Forester.
- - Bret - -
Wow! So you went with the Nokians after all. That's great -- you must be happy.
Please keep us informed on it's performance along all types of weather. I'm really interested in how different they are compared to the Geos. I might even get a set myself. BTW, how much were they before installation?
Ken
I'm assuming your Civic has the OE Firestone FR480's in 185/65-14. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
What Michelin did you ask for? The Michelin Rainforce MX4 and the X-One are excellent wet-weather tires. Both would be superior choices.
The Goodyear Regatta 2 can be bought at any Penske Auto Center inside K-Mart. If you have a Sam's Club membership, they offer a private label version of the Regatta 2 called the Allegra. Same basic tire.