The New 5W-20 grade - Good or Bad for your engine

kirbstoy · April 2003

Vinyljunkie: When I got my new 2001 Focus, Mobil-1 didn't make the 5W-20 oil Ford recommended. I went with Mobil-1 5W-30. It has performed flawlessly. I change the oil/filter @ 5K miles (warranty considerations) and to date (28K miles) have never had to add even an ounce of oil between changes. I have experienced no downsides to the 5W-30 even during 110* + summer days stuck in traffic. Good luck.

vinyljunkie · April 2003

Thanks for the information. I highly appreciate it. I think that is what I am going to end up doing.

I have no problems changing the oil myself. Thanks for the help...

mikejdsn · May 2003

I just changed from using 5w20 to mobil 1 5w30. It runs much better (quieter and smoother)-no more garbage sound. Also, remember Acura is not using 5w20, but Ford is using 5w20 because they purchased many honda engines. Why? For emission purpose. It's all about emissions!!!

tboner · May 2003

Put down the crack pipe 8^)

Ford hasn't purchased any Honda engines. In fact, I have an electronic copy of a memo where they recommend 5W20 as the oil to use for engines going back to 1992 or 1993.

I don't think Honda makes the 5.0L V8 for Ford now do they?

I'm pretty sure Ford would like to put the blame for all of those 3.8L V6 head gaskets on someone else...

Now Ford does work hand in hand with Mazda. The new 2.3L I4 engine is pretty sweet and is already in the Focus found in CA, and a couple of other east coast low emissions required states. I guess when production ramps up, the same engine will be available nationwide for the 2004 model year cars.

(BTW, this is the same 2.3L you get as the base engine in the Mazda 6)

FWIW,

TB

fleetwoodsimca · May 2003

I'm not seeing a proliferation of brands of oil in 5W-20 being stocked on the shelves. The pickin's are rather slim. Perhaps as time passes, more oil companies will compete in that segment.

dustyk · June 2003

I have only two 5W-20 motor oils listed on my spec sheet:

Pennzoil
Vis@ 82F (D445) 48.0 cSt
Vis@ 212F (D445) 8.6 cSt
Pour-point (D97) -49 F
Vis. Index (D2270) 158
Flash point (D92) 445 F

Quaker State
Vis@ 82F (D445) 45.5 cSt
Vis@ 212F (D445) 8.1 cSt
Pour-point (D97) -27 F
Vis. Index (D2270) 151
Flash point (D92) 445 F

compared to:

Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W-30
Vis@ 82F (D445) 56.0 cSt
Vis@ 212F (D445) 10.0 cSt
Pour-point (D97) -49 F
Vis. Index (D2270) 167
Flash point (D92) 430 F

Actually, the 5W-20 Pennzoil is fairly close to the Mobil 1 5W-30 full synthetic in specific characteristics, even though the Viscosity Index is a little lower. It looks like the Pennzoil starts with a slightly lower viscosity base stock, but that is to be expected for a oil in that temperature range.

The API Gravity (D287)specification for the Pennzoil is 35, and not listed for the Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 has a High Temperature/High Shear (D4683) of 3.08 @ 150 degrees centigrade, but this isn't listed for the Pennzoil.

You probably can't go wrong with the 5W-20 unless your driving in the summer time in the southwestern US.

Regards,
Dusty

csandste · June 2003

always very impressed by their oil analysis. The QS pour point is disappointing for a 5W20. Although I don't use Pennzoil, their spec sheets and oil analysis always put them at the top of the dino oil crowd along with Chevron.

bottgers · June 2003

IMO, you can't go wrong with Penn's 5W-20. It's 70% group III base stock and moly make it very comparable to a lot of today's full synthetics.

dustyk · June 2003

Just a guess, but I'd bet that they start with a higher viscosity base stock and try to stretch it downward. If you look at the viscosity index (which isn't all that bad, actually...), it's indicating that its less stable than the other two.

Regards,
Dusty

chulh1 · July 2003

I think you guys are too sensitive about some subject.

From every aspect, USA is the biggest market for most goods regardless of it's either a car or oil.

Before entering US market, every item is well tested and used in actual life 'for a long time' from where it's manufactured.

5w 20 or 0w 20 has been throughly tested and used from late 90's in places where people regard what you call 'the severe driving conditions' in USA is just a dream.
Just imagine what it would be like driving in the far East.

After extensive usage from 'tens of thousand real life results' without any major problem, some Japanese makers even considering using 0w 10 for some of their hybrid models.

Don't make fool of yourself! and use whatever oil the manual says or whatever you want without any concern!

a guy from the far east.

inkie · July 2003

Just a little more fodder for you to absorb.

I use Honda 5W20 in my '02 CRV to satisfy the warranty. This oil was made by Mobil.
When I purchased the new bottles they are made by Exxon apparantly Honda switched to Exxon. My observations from a chemists point of view: Oil is a few shades darker {no big deal}, oils seems much more viscous [now thats a big deal] To check I compared a part bottle of Mobil versus the Exxon 5W20. I used Gardner Holt bubble tubes. You fill the tubes with the testing media to a certain point cork the top to a specified line and compare the bubbles by turning the tubes against known samples of stable liquids at a specific temp. I used 77 degrees F. I do not have the sample liquids so I checked the two samples against each other. The Exxon is about two and a half bubbles slower which means the oil is more viscous. Two and a half bubbles is considerable so I don't believe its a + or - QC spec. Did Honda change the specs. to a heavier oil? Did some problems occur with the thinner viscosity made by Mobil? I am wondering.... but, I will definitely check the next lot I purchase.

rerenov8r · July 2003

Isn't Mobil, Exxon and Exxon is Mobil (they merged a while ago...

It seems highly unusual that the two samples would have different viscosities if they have the same API rating...

It seems almost IMPOSSIBLE that they would change the oil in the bottle to something that is NOT what the LABEL says it is.

Even more unlikely is that ANY change was due to problems -- what are the odds that there are problems and none of the Honda/Acura forums here or on the wider WWW haven't noted anything unusual???

tboner · July 2003

Remember the 5W20 numbers are at specific temps. I believe the "hot" number of 20 is measured at about 100C and the 5W is measured much lower.

You might check over at bobistheoilguy.com as they've got some "oil geeks" who can probably explain it to ya, but I'm pretty sure that how fast they drip at 77F doesn't mean anything.

Besides 2.5 bubbles slower out of how many 10, 100, 1000? I have to admit, I'm am not familiar with your test method.

However it is possible that two "room temp" samples behave very differently than they will at operating temps.

TB

swschrad · July 2003

I can't remember which.

yes, ExxonMobil Corporation is merged as it gets. they may have decided to cut down bottle designs. I doubt it means they have decided to cut down formulations, they probably have four times as many SKUs now as when they were two different companies

that's just how it works, like leaving coathangers in a dark closet and they multiply.

inkie · July 2003

As I wrote in my last message I will check again for sure. I have used the bubble tubes in R&D labs for many years in conjunction with sophisticated equip. and its a very good tool for judgeing viscosity. I will admit I never checked motor oil but I have checked many petroleum products that were more viscous and also less viscous. It could be a difference in reology at the temp. I checked them at and when checking at the proper temps. they may fall in line. Perhaps the newer Exxon oil has more detergent or wetting agents and at 77degrees wets better or its just that this test is meaningless as you say. I dunno. But thanks for your input and I probably will go to bobistheoilguy .

rerenov8r · July 2003

It is just that I doubt that Honda would make a change due to "oil related problems" and I similarly doubt that if both products says it is API 5W20, ExxonMobil is not going to put something that doesn't meet the standard (at the appropriate test temp/condtions...)

dustyk · July 2003

The SAE standard is the lower limit weight specification at 0 (zero) degrees F only if the motor oil has a "W" after the number.

The standard for the upper range is 212 degrees F.

The lone exception is any oil that is "0W" (zero-W). Obviously oil cannot be zero weight (no viscosity). Even water has viscosity. In the case of "0W" motor oils, the lower limit is actually that of 5W, but the pour point is considerably lower.

Regards,
Dusty

swordfish555 · July 2003

I have a 2003 Civic & correct me if I'm wrong, but the owners manual only "recommends" the 5w20 oil. It also "recommends" Honda wax & Honda vinyl protectant etc....I take this to read I can use other than the 5w20 with absolutely no fear of warranty problems.

bottgers · July 2003

Wax and oil viscosities are two absolutely different issues. I'd say if your engine blows and you were using 10W-40, this may cause a problem with your warranty.

according2me · July 2003

I've used M1 5w30 and 10w30 since 10K miles in my 01 Accord. I'm well out of warranty now at 101k miles and can report that I still have no leaks and use no oil between 6K changes. Use 5w20 if you are expecting problems with your warranty, but I'm in this for the long-haul (300K miles). BTW, I'm still getting better than 35mpg at 70mph cruising the interstate with the AC on, as of my last road trip a month ago.

I believe any synth 30w product would be able to duplicate these figures. But, M1 is very available over the counter.

The New 5W-20 grade - Good or Bad for your engine

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