Everyone had made such a big damn fuss about the new one. I saw pictures, saw the specs, saw the pricetag. Unimpressed. Went to chevy.com, looked at pics of Malibu, and about placed an order for one. Didn't cuz I don't think my parents would've liked paying the bill !
old 99 gls V6 sonata was better, than the 04, or current model, 06, to us.
The 99 was a make or break model for Hyundai. It was also their top-of-the-line at the time, and drove, sounded, felt like top of the line( had to roll windows down to see if the car was running, or go over rough road, and hear or feel very little NVH). The 04 looks "better", and has the manu-matic shifter, but seems you could hear the engine running, and the rear seats, you go down same secondary roads, NVH came through more.
I tested the 4 cylinder. It was acceptable(if ya get it on sale, perhaps) but it looks like any other car, just about, and the interior is not as nice as either the 99 or 04. Since they had the Xg350, and now Azera coming out( next class up)they sort of cut corners, it appears, in some areas. I like the Malibu Maxx, for the usefulness of the cargo area. No idea what we will buy in a few years. Have a good one.
If you haven't noticed, I'm biased toward American products. Strong believer about buying from within the country. That's why I'd never buy a DaimlerChrysler product. The money goes right over to Germany. Can't do that without guilty feelings coming up later.
I did not realize that delivery charges were so different from one company to the next. I also do not understand why GM would charge $740 to deliver its minivan from Atlanta to anywhere in the country when Honda charges only $550 to deliver its van from Alabama to anywhere in the country. I guess Atlanta is locate 200 miles down a two lane dirt road from anywhere. That must justify why GM can charge 35% more for delivery. Ford Taurus is also made in Atlanta. Its delivery charge is $685 compared to $550 for Honda Accord. It must be the same inconvenient Atlanta location which must account for such huge price difference for delivery.
GM and Ford always complain about currency manipulation that benefit Japanese companies. Does this mean that Honda and Toyota hire Japanese trucking companies to deliver their products from factories in Alabama and Kentucky to your neck of the woods. Maybe Domestic car companies should hire the same Japanese delivery companies to lower their delivery charges.
That's cool. I am a DAV(Disabled Veteran... I had a guy on another forum ask me what DAV meant before, that is why i just posted it as is).
I actually tried to get hired at Moraine plant, in Ohio, when i got out 10 years+ . I asked if they had any janitor positions,etc. I was turned away.
I have a relative who is an engineer, worked design and engineering, as a contractor(he said he'd wish they would direct hire him but they won't, ever, even if he quits contracting, he was told) at various places in Ohio and Indiana. (i do not know how much I can say here. I was banned from another fourm for talking about my relative and the exact palces he worked at, names, etc, and was IP banned).
Anyhow, Yeah, I can see buying American, but from my point of view...I try to buy what I like. I feel i did my time, served my country, and companies won't even hire me(unless I had a direct hire relative working at the plant).... where as Honda is hiring anyone(or sending out applications) right now in counties in Ohio, for direct hire production jobs. Had an ad in the small town local papers for help. Never saw that in Dayton area for toher companies advertising for auto firms to hire anyone they felt could do the job, or at least give ya the shot.
Still, that does not make me not want to buy American, or look, even. Honda may not hire me or my cousins who applied. I will still look, though.
There will also be the foreign car buyers only, the Buy American only, and buy what ya like crowd.
my neighbor got in my face 8 years ago, and I said" I'll drive what you think I should drive, If ya make the payments for me"..then I added" bakery job does not pay like a Dayton autoplant job, so i buy what I can buy"(and they did turn me away, despite my relative working contract design for a plant near Dayton. they said must be Direct hired relative, basically.. my "references"... Imentioned my relative, who he was, and then I was told at the gate the "real deal").
Kind of hard to feel the pain, when ya don't even get a chance, to even clean the restrooms(janitor) job.
I am just trying to explain my situation, and why I buy whatever/ Again, take care/not offense. DAV 1983-1994
To be honest, i am hoping to move( been here 10+ years) closer to dayton, so I do not get the ugly stares, or "in my face" attacks about my vehicles I buy. They tend to drive whatever, overall, near fairborn(Air Force base, Wright-Patterson). Go on the base... you see about 50/50 mix of "foreign" cars and "American" cars( maybe Ohio made Hondas, and S Korean Made Chevy Aveo's). Anyhow, I usually..... I try to mind my own business, here where i live/work, etc. Biggest "problems" is road ragers nowadays(vs" why did you buy that type of vehicle" questions).....but, form what i read, lot of people get road raged by others, no matter what ya drive. One last comment: think the kids quit bothering me because i tell them I'll buy a(whatever..."American car") if they join the military,lol... tends to throw them off of track.
Anyhow, have a good one. it is almost 1am here. Time for us older people to leave the net. Peace. DAV 1983-1994
I am sorry that they did not hire you. I would be the same way if I was you. I cannot say that I know how it feels, but I have relatives and friends that work for Honda in Marysville and Anna, and my grandpa used to work at a Chevrolet dealership in Waverly (which is where I'm from, Waverly, OH). I just could not buy a foreign product without guilt, even though it probably was built in America by American workers.
Lot of folks over here near Darke and Preble counties feel as you do.
I (nowadays) have no issues with them(we "had it out" years ago, lol).
My relative was promised direct hire, yet, when he went for an interview(in Indiana) the interivewer asked him" why are you here", he said' the boss sent me for the job"..interivewer told him"we do not hire contractors, even if they quit the contracting job". This was for a Ft Wayne job at a factory building trucks. He was working in Ohio, and going ot canada every few weeks for a few days, also.
Anyhow, yeah, i have no qualms. I just do no tlike people who "attack". I like the way you expalined your views, adn hope my explanations were of no offense, in return.
Here is the ugly solution that is coming for the Big 3 concerning costs/quality and competing with the Japanese: new or shared plants in China and other low cost countires while shuttering manufacturing in high cost areas like the USA.
A car can be built in China with high quality parts and interiors for very low prices and this would greatly undercut even the most efficient Japanese plants in the USA or Japan. Labor rates in China are 50 cents to $1/hour and will likely stay there as I recently read that there are up to 200 million rural people in China that need or want factory employment. No one should underestimate the ability of the Chinese to improve their manufacturing process and someday make world-class cars. I believe GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. realize this.
Not that I think this is good for the USA and employment, but it is inevitable given the current competitive pressures which you mention and the push for "free" trade.
As a simple example of this, my elderly father-in-law (GM only) just bought a new Chevy Equninox with the Chinese made 3.4L. He would be pretty upset if he knew about this, so I won't bother to tell him.
In a nutshell, better and cheaper Big 3 cars are coming soon via foreign production and Americans will likely buy.
What will it take for consumers to buy American brands? ---- The answer to this question is simple, yet the American vehicle manufacturers simply do not understand the concept! ------ Americans will purchase "American vehicles", when the BIG THREE stand behind their products!---(When a problem arises through normal use, with required maintenance being performed, they need to repair it without question.) EXAMPLE: ---- The Dodge Intrepid has been plagued with engine sluge / carbon problems, and steering problems. The Chrysler corporation knows about this issue, but chooses to blame the consumer. Do a search on the "net" and you will see this issue. Ford has been plagued with transmission and cooling system, (head gasket failures) and chooses to blame the consumer. GM has been plagued with intake head gasket failures, (the coolant leaks into the crankcase on certain V6 engines). They also "drag their feet on the repair"! ----- The American public can understand that vehicles are man made, and as such, problems will arise as the vehicle is being used on a daily basis. But, when the manufacturer tries to negate their resposibility by placing the blame for the malfunction on the consumer, the consumer only has one weapon, and that is his / her choice of vehicle at the next time of purchse. The American vehicle manufacturers have a VERY POOR concept of public relations. They have created their own problems, and now they are trying to place the blame for their financial problems on the doorstep of the unions. ------- QUESTION;---- if all the people who are purchasing Honda, Kia, Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, Volvo and BMW would purchase a new American Big Three vehicle, would they be in financial trouble? ----"NO"! They created their own issue, and they are still not taking responsibility. They complin about the cost of labor to build their vehicle, but they forget that without the labor pool, their vehicles cannot be built. It is their lack of respect for the customer base that is destroying the Big Three, and they simply cannot understand this fact! --------- Best regards. ---- Dwayne
I had a Mustang that I drove for two winters in Alaska and three winters in Chicago, I can count on one hand of a high school shop teacher the number of times I had trouble in the snow with it.
FWIW most of the vehicles I see in the ditch after a snowstorm are SUV's. I think they just think that they have 4WD and can handle it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well that's the way Texas Panhandle folks drive. We get a decent amount of snow too. I being from Michigan am scared to death to drive down here. You have someone in their Suburban on a cell phone doin' 75 mph in a blizzard. :confuse:
You have guilty feelings if you don't buy an American car? otherwise the money goes right over to Germany? I believe the profits go to the stockholders of those very publicly traded shares,regardless of origin.
That's why I'd never buy a DaimlerChrysler product. The money goes right over to Germany
Funny thing, I'm trying to make my 99 Wrangler even more German- that's why I fitted it with Bilstein shocks, Hella E-code headlamps, and MB Quart speakers. I maintain that those mods help it to fit in with my two Bavarians
That has been my experience as well. If you are a competent driver and the car is fitted with proper tires you should be able to handle the slippery stuff no matter which or how many wheels are driven. FWD can be an advantage in some situations(subcompacts for example), but in the US it is mostly used as a crutch to compensate for poor driving ability.
I also don't know what accounts for such difference between what Japanese companies charge and what American companies charge for delivery. But it does show one important point, and that is that Domestic Car companies are just not capable of operating efficiently. The reason that I looked at deliver charge is because it is the same service provided by companies. Comparing Honda Accord to Ford Taurus is difficult because they are not the same identical car. Therefore there can be substantial price difference. Delivery of Honda Accord is the exact same thing as delivery of Ford Taurus.
Delivery charge comparison is a true APPLES to APPLES comparison. And what do we see? We see that Domestic Apples are more expensive then Japanese Apples.
Normally delivery of any product is a question is quantity. The more cars you have to deliver the cheaper each one should cost to deliver. GM still builds more cars then anyone else in America. GM should have the lowest delivery charges in America because of economies of scale.
Ford produces close to 1 million Trucks in America per year. Why they could not negotiate the same rate as Toyota for delivery of Tundra. Ford over charges $270.00 ($875 vs $605)for each and every truck that they send to dealers. That is $270 million that we as consumers over pay compared to Toyota shipping their trucks.
I don't know if Domestics are just trying to make an extra buck on this delivery charge or they are really so clueless that they cannot negotiate a better contract with UPS.
American companies are good at trucks or muscle cars like the Mustang and the Corvette. I don't want or need those types of vehicles.
As far as passenger cars go, they've been a cruel joke for years. Citing improved reliability in their cars over the years is all fine and good. But the Japanese have managed to make very reliable cars that you're not embarrassed to be seen climbing into in the parking lot. Most of the American cars I've seen and driven are hideous to look at on the outside and equally unpleasant to the eye and touch on the inside. The Mercury Milan is a step in the right direction. I just think it's a great looking car inside and out. Unfortunately, we don't get it here in Canada. We get the Fusion, but I don't care for the styling. Interior's nice, but on the outside it's gaudy looking, especially those tacky rear tail lamps and the funky trapezoidal headlamps with the chrome overkill in between. The Milan is a looker, and if it were available up north, I'd probably buy it. If the American companies can continue on this path of offering stylish, reliable, well-equipped cars with well-appointed interiors, then I'd have no problem putting my dollars towars American brands.
You'd be embarassed to be seen in a G6, Impala, CTS, STS, 300, Charger, Lacrosse (allure) or Lucerne? You think those cars are worse looking than the Camry, Accord, Altima or Sonata? Please tell me you are joking. You are obviously out of touch with current vehicles because the interior and exterior designs of recent domestic sedans are much better than they were a short four or five years ago. When people like you make generalizations about all domestic interiors being sub par and all imports being great I wish you would leave some examples. Other than the Accord, what affordable Japanese family sedan has a "great" interior? The camry's interior is probably one of the plainest on the market and it looks terrible in the upper level trims with the fake woodgrain. The Sonata's interior looks like it's five years old and doesnt even look as modern as the Malibu. The Altima's interior was improved last year and has gone from sub-par to about average. I personally think the Milan, Impala and Lacrosse have better interiors than the Altima.
First of all, Japanese plants arent unionized and would bet that their employees do not have health plans as generous as those of UAM workers. Second of all the Asians only build plants in rural southern areas where there are few jobs and thus they can hire people who wont be very demandind. Third of all the Asians have few if any retirees to support and that reduces their legacy costs to virtually nothing. Meanwhile Ford and GM have to support hundreds of thousands of retirees who wont do them the favor of dying. The Asians are opening plants here to try and stem the tide of any potential backlash from consumers and to avoid any tariffs on imports that may arise in the years to come. It's not a cheap place to build cars, especially not compared to South Korea. The other thing is that some of these plants make products that no one else in the world wants (Titan, Tundra, etc.) so it only makes sense to build those vehicles in the states. Interestingly enough, few of their luxury models are built in the US even though those brands generally dont exist back in Japan. What does that tell you about thier faith in the abilities of their US workforce. If everything was truly about design and their engineers are so great, why can't Lexus/Infiniti/Acura models be built here?
My Honda Accord is sitting outside with 220k and I just put in oil and gas and go, and all original except for hoses, belts, tires etc..
Right. But the car has no soul and screams "I still live with my mother". I prefer driving something more interesting even though it requires the occasional repair.
"Right. But the car has no soul and screams "I still live with my mother". I prefer driving something more interesting even though it requires the occasional repair."
What do you mean still with your mother? I don't understand that statement at all. You say the car has no soul(accord.) Does a Tarus or the Malibu have soul? Come on now. I am a big Honda fan. The only Accord I can;t stand is the current one. The mid 90's Accord's were pretty good looking.
"First of all, Japanese plants arent unionized and would bet that their employees do not have health plans as generous as those of UAM workers."
I won't disagree with you there.
"Third of all the Asians have few if any retirees to support and that reduces their legacy costs to virtually nothing."
Again I agree with you.
"The Asians are opening plants here to try and stem the tide of any potential backlash from consumers and to avoid any tariffs on imports that may arise in the years to come."
What backlash from customers? I don't see any. The Japanese and Koreans have been taking market share away from the Domestics since 1998-1999. I agree with you on the tariffs issue though.
"What does that tell you about thier faith in the abilities of their US workforce. If everything was truly about design and their engineers are so great, why can't Lexus/Infiniti/Acura models be built here?"
"I know some acuras are built in the states"
Lexus builds the RX330 in Canada. I read an aticle in Newsweek a couple years and Toyota said if the Canadian plant does a good job building the RX330 Toyota will let them build another Lexus model. Yeah on Acura's built in the states the TL, RL, and may be the MDX is built in the US. The TSx and RSX are built in Japan. I'm actually not sure about that one(the MDX.) I don't get why you are talking about faith in US workers though. Thats not a fair statement I feel. The Camry and Accord;s have always been built here and sell alot of copies on a yearly basis so they must be pretty reliable because alot of people buy them year in and year out. I am not a big Toyota fan but they do built a good car.
1487-I respect your post and you as a poster. I wasn't trying to diss you on your last statement abpout faith in US workers just in case you took it kind of personally.
See the Domestics can keep talking about healthcare and other costs but its about product. I think Ford and Chrysler are finally getting its about the product. I don't think Gm gets it aside from Caddy and SUV's.
It has nice harmony parts in that chorus with the Camry and Mazdas that were sitting at the Hertz locations last time I went by!!!
Did not someone post that the Impala is being sold in much lower numbers to the (captive) rental companies? Does someone has _real_ information on that. I read it here on edmunds so it must be true.
"You'd be embarassed to be seen in a G6, Impala, CTS, STS, 300, Charger, Lacrosse (allure) or Lucerne?"
Personally I don't think the STS looks better than the pevious STS. The LaCrosse its looks like a bunch of cars put together stylistically, but the interior is good. Even Consumer Reports likes the interior. THe CTS I don't like the interior. The looks of it don't do it for me. The Charger is alright though looks and fit and finish wise. The 300 I don't like the looks of it. The interior is alright though. It doesn't scream rental car but it isn't as good as interior in the Acura TL.
"The camry's interior is probably one of the plainest on the market and it looks terrible in the upper level trims with the fake woodgrain.:
I'll agree with you on the Camry's interior but the interior in the Camry Solara is much better. I wouldn't buy either however.
"The Altima's interior was improved last year and has gone from sub-par to about average. I personally think the Milan, Impala and Lacrosse have better interiors than the Altima."
I sat in an 05 Altima and the interior has improved alot since the 02 model(first year of the current generation Altima.) To be fair a LaCrosse wouldn't be a direct competitor to the Altima. A Buick compared to a Nissan. Nobody would cross-shop a Buick with a Nissan. Thats not to say the Buick is crap its just that its two different audiences of car. Nissan's audience is younger than Buicks audience. I haven't seen the Impala's interior yet. The exterior is alright though. I will be going to the autoshow in a couple weeks so I'll see all the cars.
Yeah Cr rates it their lowest rated car or one of their lowest rated cars. I just think Nissan just doesn't have experience to build a big SUV like that thus the bad reliability. As for build quality of Japanese Cars that doesn't mean because one Japanese Car has bad reliability the rest all are bad.
I just don't get it the Domestic Big 3 suppotters like to blast the Japanese Automakers. The bottom line is Nissan doesn;t have experience in building a big truck like that.
BTW, my parents only buy Domestic Big 3 cars. Only once have they purchased a Japanese Car. By comparison I don't care for American Cars for some reason even though I grew up on them.
"I just don't get it the Domestic Big 3 suppotters like to blast the Japanese Automakers."
Trust me, it's only in response to those on the opposite side who seem to like doing the same thing in reverse.
Personally, I don't care too much about JD Powers, Communist Reports, etc.
I know through personal experience (and that of relatives and close friends) that the foreign cars have about the same number of issues as the American cars. Granted, it's limited in scope to a certain type of car (namely, family sedan). But I honestly haven't seen any differences worth crowing about(either way) between Taurus, Camry, Civic, etc. And that's based on several of each.
I even went out looking the last few days at body panels on foreign jobs and domestics. Hmmm, they all look like they have about the same kinds of gaps to me. Interiors all look about the same, as well. Wasn't able to drive them all, but I have test-driven them each time I get a new vehicle.
I think the differences these days are largely in people's minds.
oh yeah, VW sells to fleets alright. STACKS AND STACKS of base model Jettas (VE) and Passats, sold to Enterprise in my area.
Speaking of Enterprise (and with imidazol's remarks echoing in my ears), I was witness to quite an extraordinary sight the other night. Was cruising past our local Enterprise used car sale lot, which is in a dead end street, and figured I would go take a quick look just for the heck of it. Turned into this otherwise empty street (no other businesses and it is quite long - Enterprise is at the end) and instantly remarked on the fact that the whole street was filled with cars parked on the curb - most unusual for that street.
And then I realized they were all exactly the same car - the revered Impala LS (is it revered? Somebody told me it was. :-P). Yes, Enterprise in my town had taken delivery of its latest group of new cars, close to three dozen Impalas of varying colors, all with "ERAC" (Enterprise Rent-A-Car) written on the glass.
So yes, lots of Impalas get sold to rental companies. In fact, more than 50% of Impala sales in 2004 were to fleets.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Trust me, it's only in response to those on the opposite side who seem to like doing the same thing in reverse."
"Personally, I don't care too much about JD Powers, Communist Reports, etc."
Communist Reports: thats funny but they have been more freindly to American Car Companies of late. They do reccomend the Focus as their top small car at the moment. They liked the Caddy CTS-V and just gave a great review of the Caddy STS but they didn't like the rear seat room. They liked the LaCrosse but they said for 30K for a loaded up LaCrosee they are better cars in that price range.
Its just that like I said only Chrysler makes an Domestic Big 3 (well 2 1/2) looking at. I know Ford is starting to get it but they need more time.
"know through personal experience (and that of relatives and close friends) that the foreign cars have about the same number of issues as the American cars. Granted, it's limited in scope to a certain type of car (namely, family sedan). But I honestly haven't seen any differences worth crowing about(either way) between Taurus, Camry, Civic, etc. And that's based on several of each."
Yeah my parents's Domestics cars have been great for them except for one lemon since the 80's.
But I honestly haven't seen any differences worth crowing about(either way) between Taurus, Camry, Civic, etc. And that's based on several of each."
Uh, well and you probably know this a Tarus is not a competitor to a Civic so lets leave the Civic out of the equation for a second. The Tarus and the Camry: Ok both are family cars but the 2005 Tarus wasn't compltely redesigned since the 96 model I don't think(correct If I'm wrong.) The Camry recieved a whole redesign for the 02 model year so its kinda different in comparing the 2 cars. I should also mention though the Camry for Generation 3(92-96) and 4(97-01) used the same platform as well. I just think the 96 Tarus exterior styling abd not a whole overhaul for the 00 model year of the Tarus sunk the Tarus to its end. I agree with you the gap between the Domestics and Japanese in quality/reliability has closed significantly since the early 90's.
"I even went out looking the last few days at body panels on foreign jobs and domestics. Hmmm, they all look like they have about the same kinds of gaps to me. Interiors all look about the same, as well. Wasn't able to drive them all, but I have test-driven them each time I get a new vehicle."
Again I agree in interior quality the gap between the Domestics and Japanese has closed there but not completey. Personally I think Chrsyler has the best interiors the Domestics offer but I think GM has some work to do in the interior department. Ford is getting there. In some class of cars the Japanese do have an edge in interior plastics over some American Car models. Like I was comparing the 300C's interior to the Acura TL's interior before. Last year at the autoshow I sat in both the Caddy CTS and STS and was left unimpressed with their interiors. Even the Hyundai XG had a better interior than either of the Caddy's. Than again I did not like the interior plastics in the Infinti G35 and Nissan Pathfinder so I can;t just bash the domestics for that either.
"I think the differences these days are largely in people's minds."
Quality reliability I will agree with you but I have to say the domestics have work to do in the interior department. I haven't seen the Impala's interior yet so we'll see. The G6's interior is ok. I did see it at the NHRA drag this summer in Englishtown, NJ. They had the G6 as a showcar in the pit area.
BTW, I am not pro-Japanese car I do have a liking in NASCAR and stuff like that. No I am not one of those anti-american car people. I used top be but I have opened up my mind in the past few years.
"I don'tknow which coast you're on but a LOT of buyers bought the earlier Impala and many are buying here that aren't fleets and rental companies.
I live in the East Coast(New Jersey.) Whay I meant was you were saying that Camry;s and Mazda's are sold to rental fleets. I;m saying by manufacturer Honda is the only manufacturer with very limited fleet sales. The Domestic Big 3 , Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Kia, sell their share of cars to rental fleets. I'm not saying its a bad thing to sell rental fleets because I like Mazda but I;m just saying Honda is the only manufacturer with very limited rental fleet sales.
On the Impala even though Chevy may have cut down their rental fleet sales of it they probably sell more Impala's to rental fleets than Honda sells Accord's to rentals. I'm not bashing GM for selling the Impala to rental fleets but I';m just making an honest statement.
>I'm not bashing GM for selling the Impala to rental fleets but I';m just making an honest statement.
I understand your point now. One poster likes to bash anything anti GM, so if a car shows up in rental that's negative. Actually our local area has primarily Impalas as the city cars. They serve very, very well apparently. then become police cars.
Since last year Honda has increased rental sales a lot. It used to be 5% of sales, now it's 10%, not much lower than Nissan and Toyota, which are in the low teens. I read that on the web but didn't post it.
GM and Ford are in the hi 20's, low 30's; Chrysler low 20's.
From reading these posts everyone, it seems most agree the American car companies need to do better on the following to win people back:
1. Better styling on interior. They are getting better, but still not quite there. I agree this is important because of the amount of time we sit in the vehicle.
2. Better styling exterior. Perhaps they need to start designing cars like everyone else...a jelly bean design!! It seems to be working for everyone else. Go hire a German to design the vehicles.
3. Better paint jobs (I added this). The foreign manufacturers do much better job coating at least five times, while American companies are still doing three. At my wife's work, her Lexus gets killed by bird droppings near trees that would have ruined by Chevy by now.
4. Better warranty terms. Increase bumper to bumper from 3/36 to 5/60. Exclude tires and brakes (things I think can be ruined when someone dogs a car). I have 85,000 mi on my Trailblazer with original brakes and they are probably only half worn. Then include a 5/100 drivetrain warranty. If I were GM or Ford, I may leave the bumper to bumper as is, but defintely increase the drivetrain warranty like Chrysler did. Chrysler did well selling mini-vans because of the 7/70 drivetrain warranty.
5. Several have mentioned the American Autos need to offer better fuel economy. I disagree. When you compare a six cylinder Grand Prix and a six cylinder Camry, the fuel economy is the same. When you compare a Toyota Sequoia to a Ford Expedition, the vehicle economy is the same. I will say that American cars seems to get better HWY MPG than the others when you compare similar engine displacement and size of vehicle. For instance, the Tahoe gets better HWY MPG than the Sequoia and the Tahoe has a bigger engine and heavier weight! My Trailblazer gets the same fuel economy as a 4-Runner, but I have 275 horsepower and get 22 HWY MPG, and I think the Trailblazer is bigger than the 4-Runner.
6??? Do the American car companies need to offer automatic five gear transmission so they can "outperform" the other vehicles in road tests? Lets face it, most American car companies uses a higher gear ratio, while the Japanese and Germans auto makers use a lower gear ratio. I personally like the way things are with American car companies offering better torque (the real strength of an engine) compared to high revving low torque, high horsepower engines. People on this forum talking about how much faster a Japanese or German Auto are compared to an American Auto...the real difference is the five gears vs. four gears. Do 0-60 mph times really impact a persons' decision to buy a car??? If so, then American Automakers should build a variety which they starting to do, (Chevy Cobalt and Saturn outperforming Honda)
The Domestic Big 3 as you call them have had quality problems for the last two decades. Also, most DOMESTIC Big 3 cars are not made domestically. They are made in Canada, Mexico, or Korea, with a very few exceptions. I know this because I sold cars for several years, as well as worked in the service department area's. By comparison, more and more imports are being made in America. Their resale values are higher, as well as their quality in manufacturing and assembly. It should strike you as funny that the Imports (which are made domestically) are proving to be better investments, than the Domestics (which are made outside these United States) which are proving to be disposable vehicles.
While you may have been looking at the cars to see the difference between them, it's the things you can't see that make the difference! A prime example is a Honda Accord I used to own. 1990 model EX, that we drove for 11 1/2 years. Bought it used, with 60K miles on it when it was a year old. I paid $9,300 for it. When it was totaled in an accident 11 1/2 years later with 150,000 miles on it, we were given $5,500 in cash value from the insurance company. Could you imagine, in your wildest dreams getting even close to that kind of value out of a Domestic Big 3 car? HIGHLY unlikely!
I support the vehicles that are made here in the Domestic United States. They have shown to have higher resale values than the ones made abroad, as well as fewer mechanical problems. If you doubt this, compare the values of these various vehicles at NADA, Kelley Blue Book, or Edmunds.com. The results will prove my point for me!
is mostly about perception, when it comes right down to it. The REALITY of the industry today is of little consequence, as public perception of the car companies is what will drive puchasing decisions.
So if American cars are really ALL THAT now, then domestic CEOs can pat each other on the back and grin. As long as they keep it up consistently for a decade or so, they can look forward to rich profits around the year 2015!
From 1980-2000 the domestic car companies abused the trust of their customers to the maximum extent possible, and while there is evidence that this has now begun to stop, it will take a decade or so to tell if they are really making quality automobiles that can stand the test of time now.
That's why they should put on a 7/100 powertrain warranty without delay, to run for the intervening decade until people are convinced they really are building quality again. Whether or not the quality is there, people will be more likely to buy knowing their new car will be under warranty for most of the time they own it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Good point. I am sure Buick has a better paint coating than Chevy. I think my next vehicle will be a Buick, if they continue the Rainer liner, but my wife keeps telling me I cannot own a Buick until I am 50. BS- This is another problem that will be most difficult for some domestic brands, an "image" problem with people sterotyping that Buicks and Cadillacs are for retired people.
I support the vehicles that are made here in the Domestic United States. They have shown to have higher resale values than the ones made abroad, as well as fewer mechanical problems. If you doubt this, compare the values of these various vehicles at NADA, Kelley Blue Book, or Edmunds.com. The results will prove my point for me!
Well, you've sold me! After reading your comment I simply cannot believe that anyone would pick an unreliable import over a superior Domestic United States product. Goodbye, Three Series and X3! Hello, Cobalt and Vue! It will sure be nice to spend my time on the road instead of in the shop. And to think, I only got $9500 for my 130K 1997 528i when I sold it. I now know that a 1997 Lumina would have brought at least $15000.
I buy what will give best gas mileage for the room and dependability offered vis-a-vis the cost of interacting with original price, maintenance "required" by dealer to continue warranty and good service. I always shopped HoToy. I have bought Buick since 1980 Olds--last car I _bought_ that was not Buick. (I won a Mustang.)
The import dealers were outrageous in this area to shop as well as to negotiate. Service stories were rampant on extra charges with coworkers.
Only problem I don't accept is the intake manifolds on 3800s and some certain others not having been replaced or at least prorated in some way for cost.
The Americans need to divorce themselves from pushrods in most applications, despite the economic benefits of using old engines long since paid for.
Read the new Motor Trend (COY Issue I think) short review of the G6 GTP with the new 3.9 VVT OHV engine. They seem to think it really is as good as an OHC engine, and MT is no fan of American Cars or OHV engines.
We just don't want to support the overhead. I don't want to pay $1500 from my car purchase for Health Insurance for GM's workers.
What GM, Ford or DCX car, when comparison shopped vs. a [non-permissible content removed] competitor, costs $1500 more? Almost every one I've cross shopped or read about costs $2K -$4K LESS than an equivelant [non-permissible content removed] car in actual transaction price.
Comments
The 99 was a make or break model for Hyundai. It was also their top-of-the-line at the time, and drove, sounded, felt like top of the line( had to roll windows down to see if the car was running, or go over rough road, and hear or feel very little NVH). The 04 looks "better", and has the manu-matic shifter, but seems you could hear the engine running, and the rear seats, you go down same secondary roads, NVH came through more.
I tested the 4 cylinder. It was acceptable(if ya get it on sale, perhaps) but it looks like any other car, just about, and the interior is not as nice as either the 99 or 04.
Since they had the Xg350, and now Azera coming out( next class up)they sort of cut corners, it appears, in some areas.
I like the Malibu Maxx, for the usefulness of the cargo area.
No idea what we will buy in a few years.
Have a good one.
GM and Ford always complain about currency manipulation that benefit Japanese companies. Does this mean that Honda and Toyota hire Japanese trucking companies to deliver their products from factories in Alabama and Kentucky to your neck of the woods. Maybe Domestic car companies should hire the same Japanese delivery companies to lower their delivery charges.
I am a DAV(Disabled Veteran... I had a guy on another forum ask me what DAV meant before, that is why i just posted it as is).
I actually tried to get hired at Moraine plant, in Ohio, when i got out 10 years+ . I asked if they had any janitor positions,etc. I was turned away.
I have a relative who is an engineer, worked design and engineering, as a contractor(he said he'd wish they would direct hire him but they won't, ever, even if he quits contracting, he was told) at various places in Ohio and Indiana.
(i do not know how much I can say here. I was banned from another fourm for talking about my relative and the exact palces he worked at, names, etc, and was IP banned).
Anyhow, Yeah, I can see buying American, but from my point of view...I try to buy what I like.
I feel i did my time, served my country, and companies won't even hire me(unless I had a direct hire relative working at the plant)....
where as Honda is hiring anyone(or sending out applications) right now in counties in Ohio, for direct hire production jobs. Had an ad in the small town local papers for help. Never saw that in Dayton area for toher companies advertising for auto firms to hire anyone they felt could do the job, or at least give ya the shot.
Still, that does not make me not want to buy American, or look, even.
Honda may not hire me or my cousins who applied.
I will still look, though.
There will also be the foreign car buyers only, the Buy American only, and buy what ya like crowd.
my neighbor got in my face 8 years ago, and I said" I'll drive what you think I should drive, If ya make the payments for me"..then I added" bakery job does not pay like a Dayton autoplant job, so i buy what I can buy"(and they did turn me away, despite my relative working contract design for a plant near Dayton. they said must be Direct hired relative, basically.. my "references"... Imentioned my relative, who he was, and then I was told at the gate the "real deal").
Kind of hard to feel the pain, when ya don't even get a chance, to even clean the restrooms(janitor) job.
I am just trying to explain my situation, and why I buy whatever/
Again, take care/not offense.
DAV
1983-1994
Go on the base... you see about 50/50 mix of "foreign" cars and "American" cars( maybe Ohio made Hondas, and S Korean Made Chevy Aveo's).
Anyhow, I usually.....
I try to mind my own business, here where i live/work, etc.
Biggest "problems" is road ragers nowadays(vs" why did you buy that type of vehicle" questions).....but, form what i read, lot of people get road raged by others, no matter what ya drive.
One last comment: think the kids quit bothering me because i tell them I'll buy a(whatever..."American car") if they join the military,lol... tends to throw them off of track.
Anyhow, have a good one. it is almost 1am here. Time for us older people to leave the net.
Peace.
DAV
1983-1994
Lot of folks over here near Darke and Preble counties feel as you do.
I (nowadays) have no issues with them(we "had it out" years ago, lol).
My relative was promised direct hire, yet, when he went for an interview(in Indiana) the interivewer asked him" why are you here", he said' the boss sent me for the job"..interivewer told him"we do not hire contractors, even if they quit the contracting job".
This was for a Ft Wayne job at a factory building trucks.
He was working in Ohio, and going ot canada every few weeks for a few days, also.
Anyhow, yeah, i have no qualms. I just do no tlike people who "attack". I like the way you expalined your views, adn hope my explanations were of no offense, in return.
Gotta run.
Old people need sleep, lol
DAV
83-94
A car can be built in China with high quality parts and interiors for very low prices and this would greatly undercut even the most efficient Japanese plants in the USA or Japan. Labor rates in China are 50 cents to $1/hour and will likely stay there as I recently read that there are up to 200 million rural people in China that need or want factory employment. No one should underestimate the ability of the Chinese to improve their manufacturing process and someday make world-class cars. I believe GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. realize this.
Not that I think this is good for the USA and employment, but it is inevitable given the current competitive pressures which you mention and the push for "free" trade.
As a simple example of this, my elderly father-in-law (GM only) just bought a new Chevy Equninox with the Chinese made 3.4L. He would be pretty upset if he knew about this, so I won't bother to tell him.
In a nutshell, better and cheaper Big 3 cars are coming soon via foreign production and Americans will likely buy.
FWIW most of the vehicles I see in the ditch after a snowstorm are SUV's. I think they just think that they have 4WD and can handle it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Rocky
I believe the profits go to the stockholders of those very publicly traded shares,regardless of origin.
Funny thing, I'm trying to make my 99 Wrangler even more German- that's why I fitted it with Bilstein shocks, Hella E-code headlamps, and MB Quart speakers. I maintain that those mods help it to fit in with my two Bavarians
Delivery charge comparison is a true APPLES to APPLES comparison. And what do we see? We see that Domestic Apples are more expensive then Japanese Apples.
Normally delivery of any product is a question is quantity. The more cars you have to deliver the cheaper each one should cost to deliver. GM still builds more cars then anyone else in America. GM should have the lowest delivery charges in America because of economies of scale.
Ford produces close to 1 million Trucks in America per year. Why they could not negotiate the same rate as Toyota for delivery of Tundra. Ford over charges $270.00 ($875 vs $605)for each and every truck that they send to dealers. That is $270 million that we as consumers over pay compared to Toyota shipping their trucks.
I don't know if Domestics are just trying to make an extra buck on this delivery charge or they are really so clueless that they cannot negotiate a better contract with UPS.
As far as passenger cars go, they've been a cruel joke for years. Citing improved reliability in their cars over the years is all fine and good. But the Japanese have managed to make very reliable cars that you're not embarrassed to be seen climbing into in the parking lot. Most of the American cars I've seen and driven are hideous to look at on the outside and equally unpleasant to the eye and touch on the inside. The Mercury Milan is a step in the right direction. I just think it's a great looking car inside and out. Unfortunately, we don't get it here in Canada. We get the Fusion, but I don't care for the styling. Interior's nice, but on the outside it's gaudy looking, especially those tacky rear tail lamps and the funky trapezoidal headlamps with the chrome overkill in between. The Milan is a looker, and if it were available up north, I'd probably buy it. If the American companies can continue on this path of offering stylish, reliable, well-equipped cars with well-appointed interiors, then I'd have no problem putting my dollars towars American brands.
Well that is one way to get your work force excited about your product. Maybe that explains why GM workers actually think that GM products are decent.
Probably most of it is for retired GM employees.
I know some acuras are built in the states,
I live in Montgomery. Do you live in one of those counties?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Right. But the car has no soul and screams "I still live with my mother". I prefer driving something more interesting even though it requires the occasional repair.
What do you mean still with your mother? I don't understand that statement at all. You say the car has no soul(accord.) Does a Tarus or the Malibu have soul? Come on now. I am a big Honda fan. The only Accord I can;t stand is the current one. The mid 90's Accord's were pretty good looking.
I won't disagree with you there.
"Third of all the Asians have few if any retirees to support and that reduces their legacy costs to virtually nothing."
Again I agree with you.
"The Asians are opening plants here to try and stem the tide of any potential backlash from consumers and to avoid any tariffs on imports that may arise in the years to come."
What backlash from customers? I don't see any. The Japanese and Koreans have been taking market share away from the Domestics since 1998-1999. I agree with you on the tariffs issue though.
"What does that tell you about thier faith in the abilities of their US workforce. If everything was truly about design and their engineers are so great, why can't Lexus/Infiniti/Acura models be built here?"
"I know some acuras are built in the states"
Lexus builds the RX330 in Canada. I read an aticle in Newsweek a couple years and Toyota said if the Canadian plant does a good job building the RX330 Toyota will let them build another Lexus model. Yeah on Acura's built in the states the TL, RL, and may be the MDX is built in the US. The TSx and RSX are built in Japan. I'm actually not sure about that one(the MDX.) I don't get why you are talking about faith in US workers though. Thats not a fair statement I feel. The Camry and Accord;s have always been built here and sell alot of copies on a yearly basis so they must be pretty reliable because alot of people buy them year in and year out. I am not a big Toyota fan but they do built a good car.
1487-I respect your post and you as a poster. I wasn't trying to diss you on your last statement abpout faith in US workers just in case you took it kind of personally.
See the Domestics can keep talking about healthcare and other costs but its about product. I think Ford and Chrysler are finally getting its about the product. I don't think Gm gets it aside from Caddy and SUV's.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So much for that superior Japanese quality. LOL
Did not someone post that the Impala is being sold in much lower numbers to the (captive) rental companies? Does someone has _real_ information on that. I read it here on edmunds so it must be true.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Personally I don't think the STS looks better than the pevious STS. The LaCrosse its looks like a bunch of cars put together stylistically, but the interior is good. Even Consumer Reports likes the interior. THe CTS I don't like the interior. The looks of it don't do it for me. The Charger is alright though looks and fit and finish wise. The 300 I don't like the looks of it. The interior is alright though. It doesn't scream rental car but it isn't as good as interior in the Acura TL.
"The camry's interior is probably one of the plainest on the market and it looks terrible in the upper level trims with the fake woodgrain.:
I'll agree with you on the Camry's interior but the interior in the Camry Solara is much better. I wouldn't buy either however.
"The Altima's interior was improved last year and has gone from sub-par to about average. I personally think the Milan, Impala and Lacrosse have better interiors than the Altima."
I sat in an 05 Altima and the interior has improved alot since the 02 model(first year of the current generation Altima.) To be fair a LaCrosse wouldn't be a direct competitor to the Altima. A Buick compared to a Nissan. Nobody would cross-shop a Buick with a Nissan. Thats not to say the Buick is crap its just that its two different audiences of car. Nissan's audience is younger than Buicks audience. I haven't seen the Impala's interior yet. The exterior is alright though. I will be going to the autoshow in a couple weeks so I'll see all the cars.
I just don't get it the Domestic Big 3 suppotters like to blast the Japanese Automakers. The bottom line is Nissan doesn;t have experience in building a big truck like that.
BTW, my parents only buy Domestic Big 3 cars. Only once have they purchased a Japanese Car. By comparison I don't care for American Cars for some reason even though I grew up on them.
Uh, well Honda I think is the only automaker not to sell exclusively to fleets. I'm not sure if VW sells to fleets.
Trust me, it's only in response to those on the opposite side who seem to like doing the same thing in reverse.
Personally, I don't care too much about JD Powers, Communist Reports, etc.
I know through personal experience (and that of relatives and close friends) that the foreign cars have about the same number of issues as the American cars. Granted, it's limited in scope to a certain type of car (namely, family sedan). But I honestly haven't seen any differences worth crowing about(either way) between Taurus, Camry, Civic, etc. And that's based on several of each.
I even went out looking the last few days at body panels on foreign jobs and domestics. Hmmm, they all look like they have about the same kinds of gaps to me. Interiors all look about the same, as well. Wasn't able to drive them all, but I have test-driven them each time I get a new vehicle.
I think the differences these days are largely in people's minds.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Speaking of Enterprise (and with imidazol's remarks echoing in my ears), I was witness to quite an extraordinary sight the other night. Was cruising past our local Enterprise used car sale lot, which is in a dead end street, and figured I would go take a quick look just for the heck of it. Turned into this otherwise empty street (no other businesses and it is quite long - Enterprise is at the end) and instantly remarked on the fact that the whole street was filled with cars parked on the curb - most unusual for that street.
And then I realized they were all exactly the same car - the revered Impala LS (is it revered? Somebody told me it was. :-P). Yes, Enterprise in my town had taken delivery of its latest group of new cars, close to three dozen Impalas of varying colors, all with "ERAC" (Enterprise Rent-A-Car) written on the glass.
So yes, lots of Impalas get sold to rental companies. In fact, more than 50% of Impala sales in 2004 were to fleets.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Personally, I don't care too much about JD Powers, Communist Reports, etc."
Communist Reports: thats funny but they have been more freindly to American Car Companies of late. They do reccomend the Focus as their top small car at the moment. They liked the Caddy CTS-V and just gave a great review of the Caddy STS but they didn't like the rear seat room. They liked the LaCrosse but they said for 30K for a loaded up LaCrosee they are better cars in that price range.
Its just that like I said only Chrysler makes an Domestic Big 3 (well 2 1/2) looking at. I know Ford is starting to get it but they need more time.
"know through personal experience (and that of relatives and close friends) that the foreign cars have about the same number of issues as the American cars. Granted, it's limited in scope to a certain type of car (namely, family sedan). But I honestly haven't seen any differences worth crowing about(either way) between Taurus, Camry, Civic, etc. And that's based on several of each."
Yeah my parents's Domestics cars have been great for them except for one lemon since the 80's.
But I honestly haven't seen any differences worth crowing about(either way) between Taurus, Camry, Civic, etc. And that's based on several of each."
Uh, well and you probably know this a Tarus is not a competitor to a Civic so lets leave the Civic out of the equation for a second. The Tarus and the Camry: Ok both are family cars but the 2005 Tarus wasn't compltely redesigned since the 96 model I don't think(correct If I'm wrong.) The Camry recieved a whole redesign for the 02 model year so its kinda different in comparing the 2 cars. I should also mention though the Camry for Generation 3(92-96) and 4(97-01) used the same platform as well. I just think the 96 Tarus exterior styling abd not a whole overhaul for the 00 model year of the Tarus sunk the Tarus to its end. I agree with you the gap between the Domestics and Japanese in quality/reliability has closed significantly since the early 90's.
"I even went out looking the last few days at body panels on foreign jobs and domestics. Hmmm, they all look like they have about the same kinds of gaps to me. Interiors all look about the same, as well. Wasn't able to drive them all, but I have test-driven them each time I get a new vehicle."
Again I agree in interior quality the gap between the Domestics and Japanese has closed there but not completey. Personally I think Chrsyler has the best interiors the Domestics offer but I think GM has some work to do in the interior department. Ford is getting there. In some class of cars the Japanese do have an edge in interior plastics over some American Car models. Like I was comparing the 300C's interior to the Acura TL's interior before. Last year at the autoshow I sat in both the Caddy CTS and STS and was left unimpressed with their interiors. Even the Hyundai XG had a better interior than either of the Caddy's. Than again I did not like the interior plastics in the Infinti G35 and Nissan Pathfinder so I can;t just bash the domestics for that either.
"I think the differences these days are largely in people's minds."
Quality reliability I will agree with you but I have to say the domestics have work to do in the interior department. I haven't seen the Impala's interior yet so we'll see. The G6's interior is ok. I did see it at the NHRA drag this summer in Englishtown, NJ. They had the G6 as a showcar in the pit area.
BTW, I am not pro-Japanese car I do have a liking in NASCAR and stuff like that. No I am not one of those anti-american car people. I used top be but I have opened up my mind in the past few years.
I live in the East Coast(New Jersey.) Whay I meant was you were saying that Camry;s and Mazda's are sold to rental fleets. I;m saying by manufacturer Honda is the only manufacturer with very limited fleet sales. The Domestic Big 3 , Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Kia, sell their share of cars to rental fleets. I'm not saying its a bad thing to sell rental fleets because I like Mazda but I;m just saying Honda is the only manufacturer with very limited rental fleet sales.
On the Impala even though Chevy may have cut down their rental fleet sales of it they probably sell more Impala's to rental fleets than Honda sells Accord's to rentals. I'm not bashing GM for selling the Impala to rental fleets but I';m just making an honest statement.
I understand your point now. One poster likes to bash anything anti GM, so if a car shows up in rental that's negative. Actually our local area has primarily Impalas as the city cars. They serve very, very well apparently. then become police cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM and Ford are in the hi 20's, low 30's; Chrysler low 20's.
1. Better styling on interior. They are getting better, but still not quite there. I agree this is important because of the amount of time we sit in the vehicle.
2. Better styling exterior. Perhaps they need to start designing cars like everyone else...a jelly bean design!! It seems to be working for everyone else. Go hire a German to design the vehicles.
3. Better paint jobs (I added this). The foreign manufacturers do much better job coating at least five times, while American companies are still doing three. At my wife's work, her Lexus gets killed by bird droppings near trees that would have ruined by Chevy by now.
4. Better warranty terms. Increase bumper to bumper from 3/36 to 5/60. Exclude tires and brakes (things I think can be ruined when someone dogs a car). I have 85,000 mi on my Trailblazer with original brakes and they are probably only half worn. Then include a 5/100 drivetrain warranty. If I were GM or Ford, I may leave the bumper to bumper as is, but defintely increase the drivetrain warranty like Chrysler did. Chrysler did well selling mini-vans because of the 7/70 drivetrain warranty.
5. Several have mentioned the American Autos need to offer better fuel economy. I disagree. When you compare a six cylinder Grand Prix and a six cylinder Camry, the fuel economy is the same. When you compare a Toyota Sequoia to a Ford Expedition, the vehicle economy is the same. I will say that American cars seems to get better HWY MPG than the others when you compare similar engine displacement and size of vehicle. For instance, the Tahoe gets better HWY MPG than the Sequoia and the Tahoe has a bigger engine and heavier weight! My Trailblazer gets the same fuel economy as a 4-Runner, but I have 275 horsepower and get 22 HWY MPG, and I think the Trailblazer is bigger than the 4-Runner.
6??? Do the American car companies need to offer automatic five gear transmission so they can "outperform" the other vehicles in road tests? Lets face it, most American car companies uses a higher gear ratio, while the Japanese and Germans auto makers use a lower gear ratio. I personally like the way things are with American car companies offering better torque (the real strength of an engine) compared to high revving low torque, high horsepower engines. People on this forum talking about how much faster a Japanese or German Auto are compared to an American Auto...the real difference is the five gears vs. four gears. Do 0-60 mph times really impact a persons' decision to buy a car??? If so, then American Automakers should build a variety which they starting to do, (Chevy Cobalt and Saturn outperforming Honda)
Bueller? Bueller?
While you may have been looking at the cars to see the difference between them, it's the things you can't see that make the difference! A prime example is a Honda Accord I used to own. 1990 model EX, that we drove for 11 1/2 years. Bought it used, with 60K miles on it when it was a year old. I paid $9,300 for it. When it was totaled in an accident 11 1/2 years later with 150,000 miles on it, we were given $5,500 in cash value from the insurance company. Could you imagine, in your wildest dreams getting even close to that kind of value out of a Domestic Big 3 car? HIGHLY unlikely!
I support the vehicles that are made here in the Domestic United States. They have shown to have higher resale values than the ones made abroad, as well as fewer mechanical problems. If you doubt this, compare the values of these various vehicles at NADA, Kelley Blue Book, or Edmunds.com. The results will prove my point for me!
>"Domestic Big 3 as you call them have had quality problems for the last two decades."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Comparing a Toyota Lexus to a Chevy for paint layers is a stretch! My Buicks get bombed by birds and I've had no ill effects.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So if American cars are really ALL THAT now, then domestic CEOs can pat each other on the back and grin. As long as they keep it up consistently for a decade or so, they can look forward to rich profits around the year 2015!
From 1980-2000 the domestic car companies abused the trust of their customers to the maximum extent possible, and while there is evidence that this has now begun to stop, it will take a decade or so to tell if they are really making quality automobiles that can stand the test of time now.
That's why they should put on a 7/100 powertrain warranty without delay, to run for the intervening decade until people are convinced they really are building quality again. Whether or not the quality is there, people will be more likely to buy knowing their new car will be under warranty for most of the time they own it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, you've sold me! After reading your comment I simply cannot believe that anyone would pick an unreliable import over a superior Domestic United States product.
Goodbye, Three Series and X3!
Hello, Cobalt and Vue!
It will sure be nice to spend my time on the road instead of in the shop. And to think, I only got $9500 for my 130K 1997 528i when I sold it. I now know that a 1997 Lumina would have brought at least $15000.
The import dealers were outrageous in this area to shop as well as to negotiate. Service stories were rampant on extra charges with coworkers.
Only problem I don't accept is the intake manifolds on 3800s and some certain others not having been replaced or at least prorated in some way for cost.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Read the new Motor Trend (COY Issue I think) short review of the G6 GTP with the new 3.9 VVT OHV engine. They seem to think it really is as good as an OHC engine, and MT is no fan of American Cars or OHV engines.
What GM, Ford or DCX car, when comparison shopped vs. a [non-permissible content removed] competitor, costs $1500 more? Almost every one I've cross shopped or read about costs $2K -$4K LESS than an equivelant [non-permissible content removed] car in actual transaction price.