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2007 Toyota Camry Problems and Repairs

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Comments

  • tagpatstagpats Member Posts: 3
    i'm sure it is the minority who have problems with their car, but boards like these also represent the minority. i've owned 10 cars and have never posted or even looked at a board before. i'm sure that is the case with the vast majority of the several hundred thousand who are driving a 2007 camry. a minority of the minority doesn't necessarily make the problems miniscule.

    if it were just a few of us with transmssion problems, toyota would not have issued a tsb or modified their brand new transmission 3 times in less than a year to correct the problem. they would have just popped in the same new tranny and we'd all be good to go.

    can't speak for the rest, but i love my camry despite the flare and am sure it will be corrected in time.
  • jetjockgjetjockg Member Posts: 80
    I'll chill as you say when Toyota moves on, admits to their woes and corrects the defective transmissions. I like my 2007 Camry LE that I have owned since March 06. However I do not like the beer can transmission that hesitates and does what it wants to. Not what I want it to do. Your phrase "Let's move on" is often used in politics. In other words let's not talk about this embarrassing subject.
  • htown1htown1 Member Posts: 2
    14 miles
  • chuck28chuck28 Member Posts: 259
    I'm wondering how many Toyota salesman are on these post trying to discredit the negative problems concerning these 07's camry's. I would also take note that test driving a car off the lot will not duplicate these problems seeing that most of the problems are after cold starts( sitting for 8hrs or more). I can assure you these problems are more common than you think. I also think that many people that don't know about the mechanics of the car don't realize they have the problem. I've talked to many female camry owners that say they love their car and get many complements and have know idea that their trans is defected until you tell them.I do not mean to stereotype females as I kmow some who are well educated on this matter.
    Anyhow Happy New Year to all!
  • jofallonjofallon Member Posts: 29
    When I went to the dealer after I bought the LE, to ask about the transmission, the service manager immediately had one of his people take it for a 20 minute test drive with me. No questions, no comments, stone-faced. There were two occasions on the test drive when it had the 2-3 second hesitation before accelerating. The mechanic told me it's supposed to behave like that. He said it should fix itself as it learns my driving habits, certainly by 30,000 miles. They probably don't say that to potential customers, of course. They prefer to dwell on the Accord's perhaps outdated styling.

    The local dealer has a meeting with new Camry owners on Jan 10; I may go and see what they say.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Does that leave you to wonder about your lifemate's driving habits interfering with your own....?

    Anything "learned" about individual or personal driving habits, styles, should be erased each time the vehicle is started, and according to the engineering white papers I have read that's exactly what happens.

    Otherwise I would rather hate for my wife to be the follow-on rental customer for Kyle Petty.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    The local dealer has a meeting with new Camry owners on Jan 10; I may go and see what they say.

    that's interesting... can you be more specific?
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Probably just the normal "come and meet the service department" meeting. Every new car I've bought recently has one of these.
  • jetjockgjetjockg Member Posts: 80
    I was not attacking anyone, just posting some articles by experts in the field. Let us assume that very few Toyotas have transmission problems. I would assume that if Toyota knew that only a few cars had do be repaired, exchange or bought back they would gladly do it to keep the customers happy. In my case and others on this forum Toyota has completely ignored our pleas and closed our cases at Toyota Customer Experience. The phrase I get from everyone is that is the way it is supposed to work yet Toyota Customer Experience sent the following letter to a person on this forum who posted it.
    "The poor response you described typically surfaces either when the accelerator is depressed fully to the floor or when depressed in an aggressive manner. The newer version of the Camry has transitioned from a manual throttle linkage to an electronic throttle control system. The electronic throttle control monitors the everyday driving habits of the operator and then tailors itself to make the most efficient gearshifts. On rare occasions when the operator fully depresses the pedal or depresses the pedal in an aggressive manner, the system may experience a delay in determining how to make the optimal gearshift.

    At this time Toyota has no plans to make changes to the shift characteristics of the transmission. To minimize this condition, we recommend trying a firm yet gradual application of the accelerator.

    Your feedback is appreciated; it is through communications such as yours that we become aware of our customers' expectations and reactions. It also provides us with valuable insight when planning and developing future products and services to increase our customers' satisfaction.
    Toyota Customer Experience”

    A week later a TSB was published as a fix to the imaginary problem. The TSB helped but did not cure the problem. If you call the 1-800 number At TCE they say there is no problem with the transmission and we can of no further assistance to you! What a company!!
  • vince_lmtvince_lmt Member Posts: 25
    I have been following the posts related to the rpm flare issue for several weeks. Initially we decided to replace our current Camry with a new one (XLE / V6) but have since decided against it. We just do not want to be exposed to this kind of a problem, both with the car and in trying to deal with Toyota. Reading your post reminded me of how frustrating it can be in trying to deal with Toyota's corporate hierarchy.

    Hopefully Toyota will resolve this problem so everyone who is dealing with this issue will be able to completely enjoy this really great automobile.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    is to give the (perhaps few) folks who are having any sort of difficulty with their 07 Camry a place to talk with others who may be having the same difficulty/ies.

    It is neither necessary nor appropriate to tell people that because your experience differs from theirs, they are wrong in what they report.

    I'm quite sure from everything I've read about the 07 Camry that the largest majority of owners are happy and problem-free. But it is a fact that some are having some problems, some of which are very serious, and they are entitled to discuss them here without enduring insinuations that they are being less than truthful.

    By the same token, those of you who are having problems need to accept that not everyone has the same issues you do. If you find you need to tell someone ("female" or not) they are having a transmission issue, it's extremely likely that's because they are NOT having a transmission issue.

    In other words, no one should assume his or her experience with the 07 Camry is everyone else's.

    Let's try to keep that in mind, okay?

    Now, let's allow this discussion to focus on being helpful to people with problems. Those who aren't having difficulties, please say thank you and visit the main Camry group to find other discussions of interest.

    Thanks.
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Member Posts: 1,134
    )) "Anything "learned" about individual or personal driving habits, styles, should be erased each time the vehicle is started, and according to the engineering white papers I have read that's exactly what happens." ((

    wwest, you didn't get that out of any automatic transmission engineering white papers regarding "fuzzy logic" cumulative learning. (It's called "cumulative" for a reason... ;)) And yes, multiple drivers will result in some intermediate shift response characteristics not to the liking of one or all drivers - particularly if one of the principle users drives like a grampa and the other at the opposite end of the spectrum drives like a boy-racer in a hurry to get to his own funeral. To erase the "learned" shift quality parameters in some cases involves something as simple as disconnecting the negative battery cable. In other cars, a scan-tool has to be connected to the OBD-II port and programmed out through a specific instructional routine - but it's NEVER automatically done.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    There are two types of adaptive learning involved in modern day automotive vehicle systems. The first of these involves learning, and continually relearning, the tolerances of the various sensors and forcing functions of the servomechanisms. That learning aspect will continue and the parameters retained for as long battery power is supplied. Just as you noted some of these are even retained in non-volatile memory to over come periods of no battery power.

    If what you state were true then why do the many more expensive and/or upscale vehicles that can recognize the various, different, key codes used by each driver not state something in line with the need to not go randomly swapping keys?

    Now, given the wide and diverse demographics of this market can you think of even one good and valid reason that personal driving styles or habits should be retained beyond the point of shutting down the engine?

    To the contrary, the white papers I have read indicate that these systems begin to learn the driver's unique style or habits as soon as the vehicle is put in motion and within a very short period the driver has been "binned" into 1 of 4 categories. A short time later the driver's style is further resolved into 1 of 16 categories and thereafter the driver may actually be rebinned should the system note a change in style.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    My husband and I just purchased a 07 Camry a couple of days before Thanksgiving. It has been in and out of the service dept several times and is going back today. It seems to be the same problems discussed here.(I am glad to see it is just our imagination)A saving grace for us(if there is any) is that a Toyota employee had the same problem and has had his transmission replaced. Whereas for us, they have said it was a "service bulletin"and replaced a part. Still have the problem. This is my first Toyota and if the problem isn't fixed, I may go back to a Ford. This car is beautiful and other than this problem we are very happy with it. But it is frustrating to keep taking it in to the service dept and nothing is done. I would think Toyota would want to solve this issue. If it isn't fixed today, I don't know what to do next...
  • geniesuegeniesue Member Posts: 3
    My husband and I just purchased a 07 Camry a couple of days before Thanksgiving. It has been in and out of the service dept several times and is going back today. It seems to be the same problems discussed here.(I am glad to see it is just our imagination)A saving grace for us(if there is any) is that a Toyota employee had the same problem and has had his transmission replaced. Whereas for us, they have said it was a "service bulletin"and replaced a part. Still have the problem. This is my first Toyota and if the problem isn't fixed, I may go back to a Ford. This car is beautiful and other than this problem we are very happy with it. But it is frustrating to keep taking it in to the service dept and nothing is done. I would think Toyota would want to solve this issue. If it isn't fixed today, I don't know what to do next...
  • jofallonjofallon Member Posts: 29
    I asked him about that; and yes, he said it would be a problem. If h and w have significantly different driving styles (which is not unlikely), the computer could never really adjust to either. If you have teenagers?...

    A rental Camry? I'd not like to imagine what it could mean.

    I wonder why they try to have it learn how you drive. People learn faster, and I really can get used to anything, if it's predictable. The hesitation would be less annoying if you could count on it. Sometimes, I hit the gas and I get an alarmingly fast response. Followed by a panicked braking, of course.
  • jofallonjofallon Member Posts: 29
    Right, I think that's it. But you can ask questions, so I may go anyway.

    They make a lot of money if they persuade you to go back to them for service, so it makes sense to do this.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Do you have a Lemon Law in your state? If so get the details of what is required to envoke this law. Most of the time it is taking it to be fixed for the same problem so many times without results. If you meet this, then I would see the higher ups at the dealer along with a registered letter to Toyota giving them ONE more chance to fix your problem or else, Lemon Law. If enough people would go this route then maybe they will get off their high horse and deal with it. At least it would sure bring out the media. :lemon:
  • jetjockgjetjockg Member Posts: 80
    Hi Pat, I am trying to keep an open mind about the Toyota transmission problem (the hesitation/delay problem.)What have you read specifically that made you make the comment-
    "I'm quite sure from everything I've read about the 07 Camry that the largest majority of owners are happy and problem-free." The few available articles that I have read indicate that the Toyota recall rate has increased 41 times (not percent the last two years.)If they had 1000 recalls 2 years ago they have 41000 recalls now. It is hard to get accurate local news about this because if a local paper prints bad news about an automobile company they lose a bulk of their advertising money.The next time you read a paper look at the number of pages dedicated to auto advertising. PS I knew you were not going to let that comment about a female slip by!
  • ski7304ski7304 Member Posts: 16
    My husband & I bought the V6 Camry back in Sept. Although the car was for my husband, I was the one who test drove the car (for the entire day) and negotiated the deal. The day I test drove it, I did not feel any hesitation at all. I really liked the drive and so I had my husband drive it and he liked it as well. Around the 1,000 mile mark, I noticed a hesitation in the acceleration and some gears seemed to get stuck. I also noticed that once my foot was off the gas, the car decelerated too fast as if I was applying the break. Since I don't drive the car that much, I asked my husband if he noticed it. He told me he did but that it was probably something that would go away once the car was "broken in". Well 2 weeks ago, I came upon this website and forum and I could not believe what I was reading. So many other Camry owners w/ the same problems. At this point we were at the 5,000 mile mark which I felt was plenty of time for the car to be "broken in" and so we brought it on for service. The tech duplicated the problem and ordered a valve body, O ring and gasket. The parts are still on order and so it is not fixed yet, but I am very weary that those parts are going to fix the problem. I believe, like some others out there, that this is a major problem. It may not be all Camrys, but it is definetly enough to have some attention paid to it. I am all for a class action law suit. I know I will personally be contacting a lawyer regarding the lemon law if it is not fixed to my satisfaction within 3 times. I've used the lemon law before and it was enacted for reasons just like this and I am not going to allow Toyota to bully me into thinking "its just the way the car is made." I expect a new car to run like a new car, not a LEMON!

    I wish I had seen this forum before buying, it really would have persuaded me to buy American again. This is my first and last Toyota!!!
  • geniesuegeniesue Member Posts: 3
    Well folks, here's the update. We took our Camry in yesterday after doing the Toyota Tango and they have finally decided to put in a new transmission. But wait, there's more...for some strange reason there is a back order on transmissions and so we will have to take our car back again when one becomes available..grrr. So we are picking up our car today and will wait for the phone call. Hopefully that will be the end of the saga for us. We are lucky, we have friends who don't mine taxing us around to pick up and drop off the car. I don't know what people who need their car for work etc do. They did let us have a loaner this last time, but I think it was because I threatened to trade the Camry in on a Mustang. Anyway, we'll keep our fingers crossed that the new transmission works better.
  • jollygreen1jollygreen1 Member Posts: 42
    I am glad I began reading this forum because I was thinking of buying an 07 later on in the year and give my great running 05 2.4L LE to my niece who is in college. I will now wait at least another year or two. Maybe I can find my niece a nice used Corolla or Civic. I know the "host" probably doesn't like to here this kind of thing, but I do not want the problems others have had. Jollygreen1
  • vince_lmtvince_lmt Member Posts: 25
    A partial answer to the question of "how many" can be obtained from Toyota USA's 800 number. I don't recall which options I selected from the voice prompts to get to the recording but according to the recording the number of failures, due to the snap ring problem, where 2nd and 4th gears stop working, is < .5% of total sales. Since this is a 6 speed problem that percentage does not apply to 4 cyl models and it probably does not reflect the rpm flare issue. I'm sure that number will be a well kept secret unless Toyota is forced to do a recall.

    As of 1/3/07 NHTSA's website contains 32 complaints specific to 07 Camry transmission issues. These complaints are listed across 3 separate "transmission" categories. I did not read the details of each complaint so it is possible that some posted complaints may reference some other transmission or driveline topic.

    Interestingly, there are no complaints filed on NHTSA's website for Lexus ES350 transmission problems. The V6 Camry and ES350 use the same transmission.

    The ClubLexus forum does contain 2 discussion threads for ES350 transmission problems. This specific posting contains some interesting insight into the problem, and hopefully the fix.

    http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250652&page=3

    Vince
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I wouldn't be too harsh on Toyota were I you. Ford and VW seem to be having the very same downshift hesitation problem with their automatic transaxle FWD vehicles.

    I just saw where Ford has adopted a variable displacement ATF oil pump for the new Ford Edge and I suspect its to fix this very problem.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,154
    What about the Avalon?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi - I moved your other post to a better place for it. Here's the link: jollygreen1, "Toyota Camry - Rattles" #678, 3 Jan 2007 1:52 pm.
  • jetjockgjetjockg Member Posts: 80
    I am well a where of the quality of the Detroit autos. That&#146;s why I have owned Nissan products for 33 years until I made the terrible mistake of buying a 2007 Camry Le March 06. I understand that the recall rate for Toyota is as high as or higher than the Detroit cars.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Some off-topic posts have been removed.
  • barry17barry17 Member Posts: 1
    I also have this problem. The transmission downshifts unexpecedly usally about 100 yds after starting up the car. I think it may also be related to putting the car in reverse and then driving forward. The dealer updated the controls on the transmission in late December. This solution had no beneficial effect. It may have worsened the problem. I have a V6 LE.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Downshifts...??

    Most Toyota transaxles have the O/D locked out until the ATF is WARM, then it will upshift into O/D.

    Mine takes up to about a 1/4 mile on a cold morning.

    But that's an upshift so who knows..??
  • neil1aaneil1aa Member Posts: 2
    When I'm driving about 35mph or higher...if all of a sudden I push the Accelerator Pedal to get a needed sudden increase in speed (Like in a lane merge on the freeway), the car hesitates and takes several attempts until it does.

    Took the car to dealer (jersey city).
    They Recaliberated ECU ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION (PER TSB#EG056-06).

    Then was advised the car would be sluggish for about 10 to 15 miles then it would be ok.
    Also, the mechanic said "your car should be much better now but there will always be hesitation....it's normal".

    Drove the car 25 miles to confirm that hesitation when pushing the accelarotor while on 35 or highr speeds doesnt increase the car's speed.

    Called dealer again and they were more than eager to help.....will see what happens when they check the car next week.

    Also! I test drove a camry LE at another dealer and found out the car got the same problem.

    So it looks like a defect in all 2007 CAMRY LE.

    Needless to say, this condition in the wrong situation can result in severe injuries and even death!

    I think at this point it may be too early to file a complaint re this defect to NHTSA (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/).

    Must say service dept of Toyota at jersey city is very responsive.

    Please share your experience.

    Thank you

    neil
  • mvperez4jesusmvperez4jesus Member Posts: 231
    Thanks, and i beleive "That's the idea." We need to help each other, although i did not buy my camry yet; the only reason that is holding me is the "transmission issues that you see people speaking about on Yahoo, MSN, AOL, etc. just check their web sites. However, i am willing to wait a couple of months to see is that hanges. My point is the following: although i admit tha the new camry looks great/ and has all the new stuff (ebd, ba, 4 discs, mp3, more airbags, etc, etc) you can get a decent deal for a honda accord today for $1000 below invoice) and a better financing option. Now the only thing that has me i between them is the shape of the camry; but as far as i know, the honda accord continues to be the best car in Aerica. those are the only cars that you will see running with more than 300000 miles, with no major mechanical probles, has the best re-sale value, and any dealer will pay just as much for your car as anyone off the street. Like i said it is just about the body.
  • rjh5rjh5 Member Posts: 1
    I just found this message board. I have a V-6 SE that had the transmission replaced 2800 miles, this was back in July 06', and got the car back and experienced a leaking noise like my window was open. I took it back again where they fixed that problem. Now with my new transmission I have 13,000 miles I was still experiencing shifting and hesitation problems so at my routine oil change at the dealership I told him about the transmission problems I was still experiencing and asked if these were new transmissions in the 07' where the assistant service manager said that they were having all sorts of problems with the 07' and that they were trying to fix the problem before they sold them. Well I get my car back after the routine fix to experience a noisy car at 70 MPH so I call my salesman that I bought the car from and told him that I have had it with this car and got a return call from the customer service manager telling me to test drive it with the head technician. I did this yesterday to find out that someone was installing I believe he said a clucth part upside down and this has caused damage to the transmission. He also told me that the transmission is computer operated and they have had to make adjustments and they came out with the 4 cylinder replacement chip but he wasn't sure if they have come out with the V-6 computer chip. Hopefully Toyota will get this corrected.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Since you have private email I am sending this public. If you would have taken the time to read througn the posts here you would find that everyone has already shared their thoughts and their is NO cure for this problem at present. Toyota has half heartedly at best tried to solve this problem but for the most part denies it. Only way I see of this problem being solved is through mass lemon law compainsts or a class action suit which will get the media's noise into things and we all know what the media will do. They will have no choice but to work on the problem big time until it's fixed. :lemon: :lemon:
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Since this EXACT problem, 1-2 second downshift delay upon re-application of pressure to the gas pedal, first began to be reported with the 2002 Camry (and 04 RX series) I rather doubt it will be fixed anytime soon.

    Ford has just announced that the new Ford Edge has a variable displacement ATF pump which I strongly suspect is being adopted to solve this very same problem as is being reported for many of their FWD vehicles.

    Knowing how the "standard" fixed volume ATF pump is constructed within most automatic transmissions it is hard for me to imagine how it might be easily converted to a variable displacement pump.

    Were it me I would look into adding a small accummulater pressure storage tank much like the one used in the ABS pumpmotor assembly.

    Adopting a variable ATF pump would very likely mean a complete and total redesign of the transaxles and that might be an explanation for why Toyota has not yet come up with a satisfactory fix.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    How about they do away with the electronic gas pedal and go back to a wired version. Do you think this may help?
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i think the problem with doing that is that now the throttle valve position is under the control of the ECU with the accelerator pedal being one input; DBW is infrastructure for some safety stuff like VSC where you might want to intentionally de-rate engine power even though the accelerator is being pressed more.

    with the linkage being mechanical, the throttle is going to open and close with the accelerator pedal. and if the gas doesn't increase when the pedal is pressed, and the throttle is opened, then you can go too lean and stall which is a no-no and safety problem in and of itself.

    isn't DBW fun fun fun?
  • neil1aaneil1aa Member Posts: 2
    I wonder if the Hesitation problem puts the CAMRY LE in the LEMON category ;)

    Aside from class action suits...I thinke if all of us make it a point to RATE the CAMRY LE in as many places as possible...this might help.

    By the way, any suggestions as sites where we can rate     the camry to reflect this serious problem?
  • 07xle07xle Member Posts: 177
    I wonder if the Hesitation problem puts the CAMRY LE in the LEMON category


    NO!!!!!!!!!!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Well, yes and no.

    First, the only Toyota I own is a Prius.

    But I do have a 2001 AWD RX300 which exhibits the earlier symptoms resulting from the revised shift pattern/schedule adopted late in the last century as a safety measure. Seemingly on all Toyota, Lexus, Ford and VW FWD vehicles with automatic transaxles. At least those are the marques wherein complaints of 1-2 second throttle lag or downshift downshift delay/hesitation problems can be most easily found.

    My solid suspecion is that sometime late in the late century, say 1995, the automotive insurance industry approached the automotive manufacturing industry with the news that statistically FWD and front torque biased AWD vehicles were proving to be dramatically more hazardous(***) in foul weather conditions than their RWD and rear torque biased AWD counterparts.

    The obvious message being: "either fix what's wrong or we will start charging a premium to insure FWD and..., vehicles."

    Another obvious point along this line is like the over-confidence drivers of 4WD/4X4's get in foul weather so do many FWD owners due to the extra traction provided by the engine weight being over the driven wheels/tires.

    But that wasn't the major issue.

    Engine compression braking on a FWD vehicle can have a really adverse affect on vehicular control on a slippery roadbed surface. Even more to the point the anti-lock braking system can be made non-functional due to engine compression braking.

    So nowadays almost all FWD and front biased AWD vehicles with automatic transaxles will UPSHIFT upon a FULL lift-throttle event. That leaves you in coastdown mode in to high of a gear ratio should you suddenly have need for quick acceleration.

    Because the engine is now at idle and with the trnasaxle having just completed an upshift there is now insufficient ATF pressure/flow to complete the required downshift quickly.

    So the manufacturers have chosen to use DBW, e-throttles, to delay the onset of engine torque developement until the downshift can be completed.

    *** Ford Motor Company has just been awarded a patent for two techniques which appear to directly address this issue. The first of these involves substantially reducing the level of regenerative braking on a hybrid vehicle when the OAT declines close to or below freezing. The second involves disabling regenerative braking the instant the anti-lock braking system activates so as not to interfere with ABS activity.

    The only vehicles in production to which Ford could currently apply this patent are both FWD or front torque biased AWD.
  • mmogabmmogab Member Posts: 11
    Yes, the Accord is a great car but as you will read in auto reports and see for youself, it is out of date. For 2006 they tweeked the rear end a little but it doesn't have the look of the new Camry, but to each their own. You may or may not know this but the "new" Accord is due out in the 4th quarter of 2007. It hasn't been seen yet but I work in the automotive business and service a Honda dealer who tells me that it will have many ques of the Civic - only bigger of course. They won't be selling those for 1000 below invoice when they come out. To be subjective, you might check out the 2007 Altima (Nissan). It too is in the comparitive ranks of the Camry and Accord but it too will be probably hard to get under invoice pricing. Good luck on which car you decide.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    My solid suspecion is that sometime late in the late century, say 1995, the automotive insurance industry approached the automotive manufacturing industry with the news that statistically FWD and front torque biased AWD vehicles were proving to be dramatically more hazardous(***) in foul weather conditions than their RWD and rear torque biased AWD counterparts.

    This isn't directly related to the topic at hand, but I had to respond to your comment. There is NO evidence that front-wheel-drive vehicles were involved in a greater frequency of crashes in inclement weather conditions compared to rear-wheel-drive vehicles. Therefore, the insurance industry never approached the automotive industry demanding changes.

    If there were such evidence, there is no doubt in my mind that the research arm of the insurance companies, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, would have publicized a study to that effect.

    If you can provide a link to ANY research showing FWD vehicles are so dangerous in bad weather, I'd like to see it.
  • drjamesdrjames Member Posts: 274
    myperez4jesus, as mmogab noted, if you like everything about the current Accord, you'll get a great deal since the new Accord will debut late this year. Similarily, the new Altima is worth consideration as well.

    That said, it is the Camry that has been the best selling car in the US for 9 of the past 10 years, not the accord. Should you be interested in the Camry, and are looking at the I4 5A, just make sure it's built after October. As for the V6 6A, I'm still not aware of anyone with one built in the past few months that has reported the RPM flare.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    You can be certain sure that the automotive insurance industry is just as "beholden" to the automotive industry as are the automotive magazines and your daily newspaper.

    Can you spell "parasite"?

    Can you imagine what would happen to FWD automotive sales, let along used car values, assuming what I surmise is true and the information became publically available from a source considered as reliable as the IIHS?

    "...There is NO evidence...."

    Not only does the Ford patent speak strongly to this issue there is clear and certain evidence that Toyota, Ford, and VW have "stuck to their guns" in the face of fierce public outcry about the adverse affects of these 1-2 second downshift delays. Why wouldn't they simply revert to the old tried and true shift pattern/schedule?

    For Toyota it seems to have begun with all the reported premature transaxle failures in the 99 RX300. The most real indication of this being a problem was with the 2003 Camry transaxle as recorded via the TSB issued in the spring of 2003. And as you can see those exact problems continue with the 2007 models.

    Eight years is an awfully long time for Toyota to take to correct a design problem.

    Don't we ALL know that these transaxles used to downshift upon full lift-throttle events? Other than the aforementioned safety issue why such a drastic change in the shift pattern/schedule and seeming only for FWD models?

    Because anyone having ever driven a stick shift FWD vehicle on adverse roadbed conditions knows full well the hazards of downshifting to slow or stop. Best to use the e-brake lightly.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    One must also realize that the Camrys good sales figures are in part due to their fleet sales to rental companies like Enterprise, Alamo & others. I've yet to see any Accords in rental fleets, so the Camrys sales numbers aren't really truthful in that regard. Having owned 2 in the '90's, they were both competent "appliances" with lousy brakes. And with the teething problems at Toyota of late, I'd definitely wait until these latest acceleration problems are resolved.
    It reminds me of Toyota's attitude with the "oil sludging" problem. Toyota blew it with their somewhat slow response of even acknowledging the problem. Seems like history is repeating itself again. Sad too.
    What's happening with the auto industry of late. Why can't any company just produce a trouble free product that anybody can afford to buy & own? I'm at a loss on this question...!

    The Sandman :mad:
  • mcserimcseri Member Posts: 16
    ALL 2007 TOYOTA CAMRY OWNERS:

    The evidence is out there. The dealerships know of the problem. There is definitly a transmission problem with their new line of Camry's. Most importantly, the transmission issue is an extremely dangerous safety issue for all of us. We all need to bond together and start writing letters to Toyota, continue giving bad reviews to the new Camry, complain to the National Institute for Highway Safety, write letters to our senators and congressman. We need to force a transmission recall among Toyota and place pressure upon the company. Thousands of people read this forum and Toyota has a team developed to read our posts and figure out how to do damage control through the press.

    If Toyota will not issue a safety recall for the 2007 Camry transmissions within the next 4-6 months, a class action lawsuit will have to be formed and will be available to all 2007 Camry owners.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    First you said, My solid suspecion [sic] is that sometime late in the late century, say 1995, the automotive insurance industry approached the automotive manufacturing industry with the news that statistically FWD and front torque biased AWD vehicles were proving to be dramatically more hazardous(***) in foul weather conditions than their RWD and rear torque biased AWD counterparts.

    Then you said, You can be certain sure that the automotive insurance industry is just as "beholden" to the automotive industry as are the automotive magazines and your daily newspaper.

    Can you spell "parasite"?

    So which is it? Is the insurance industry able to stand up to the auto companies and say it's time do something about these "hazardous" front-wheel-drive vehicles? Or is it a "parasite" that feeds off the auto industry?

    All your statements about how automatic transmissions upshift, downshift, and hesitate are beside the point. Where is the evidence that FWD vehicles have been "dramatically more" hazardous than RWD vehicles in bad weather conditions? Can you point to higher fatalities and injuries? No, all you can cite over and over are Ford's patents which deal with regenerative braking, which is used at present only in hybrid vehicles.

    This is my last comment on the issue, although I find it curious that if you think FWD and "front torque biased" AWD vehicles are so hazardous, why do you own both a Prius and a Lexus RX? Shouldn't you be driving a Crown Vic and a Tahoe instead?

    Now, let's return to the topic at hand, before the hosts step in and ban this side thread.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Were I ever to have to stand trial under purely circumstantial evidence against me I now have a model for the persons selected to be on the jury.

    Agreed, there is no SOLID evidence that FWD vehicles are more hazardous in wintertime foul weather conditions, and only past history leads me to believe that the insurance industry has gotten involved.

    So, I hereby revise my statement as follows...

    My solid suspecion, based on the purely circumstantial evidence before me, is that sometime late....
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Let's get back to the Camry issues now.
  • ski7304ski7304 Member Posts: 16
    I totally agree with you on this. My Camry is in the shop right now and they are supposedly fixing my transmission problem with some new parts. I must say, I was given a 2007 Camry 4 CYL as a loaner car and it drives much nicer than my V6. I am very certain that as soon as I drive out of the dealership with my "fixed" V6, I will experience the same problems. They have no idea how to fix this problem at this point and they are trying to appease us with "trying" to fix it. If it is not fixed when I drive off the lot, I will turn right back around and bring it in again. That will be visit #2 and they only have 3 chances to RESOLVE the problem before I take action with the Lemon Law. EVERYONE needs to do this...there is no way they can ignore this problem if everyone who has a problem takes a stand!
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