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Comments
I am planning on being there. If anyone else can go, that would be great.
you can email me for the address
paid $1620.00 for it and have $920 invested so far. The crappy thing about all of this is if WG had been an honest company and notified all of us, I could have cancelled the contract during the 60 day period and been due a 100% refund. At least I saved the other $700 from the WG thieves. But get this, it seems WG told them I had the choice of continuing the warranty (which is worthless) or cancel and receive a pro-rated refund for the unused portion, which is "0" dollars due to how the crooks wrote the policy to revert to 0 miles on a new policy.
At this point I am moving on. WG can choke on my money and Chase Bank will definitely get a cut up card back as they are not for consumer protection.
I do not recommend using any credit card except American Express, as they have been the only card that really seems to protect the consumer. They respond faster than anyone and have been the only card company to ever call me concerning questionable activity on my card.
Good Luck everyone!!!
My big problem is the fact we were never NOTIFIED TO cancel even if we wanted to! They delibereately withheld the information for as long as possible (or until every newspaper/ TV station did a story on them) and sent me a letter 5 MONTHS after the June insolvency. Yea, I just received my "Sorry BS" letter in November (yet it was dated in October). They did this and continued charging our CCs - how can this be LEGAL when they knew they would not provide service? How does their behavior excuse them because we didn't NEED the service yet? We were left UNprotected but were paying for PROtection! Can't wait to see their dispute over my dispute. It isn;t enough for them to steal my Pre-June payments of over 600 bucks?? They have'em made out of STEEL.
I did the services rendered route. Last night I cancelled my credit card which had posted a credit in late October. I had not used it since I initiated my dispute in late September, requested a check for my credit balance and now the account is closed.
Are you saying that WG is actually giving back ANY contract refunds of policies sold before 6/03??
76ta1 - Did you "save" $700 because you didn't pay the full premium in April and stopped paying the balance, or because you got a pro-rated refund??
By my calculations according to WG policy, even though my policy was bought in April, 03, and I only have driven this car 3000 miles since I bought it, I still owe WG over $100. That is due to reverting the miles to "0". If I calculate by time, they owe me about $600 through the month of October. But remember it is the lesser of the two.
How's that for a stick in the eye. But let them try to collect it.
After I cancelled my CC#, I recieved two dunn notices from WG concerning my late payments.
My suggestion is to overload thier e-mail system with a few words of just what you think about them.
They publicly post their email address on thier website for different departments and you might as well try to collect what they owe you by causing them some aggravation. 65,000 people could make a statement to their inbox. You could do this every day.
The pro-rated refund crap is a joke (zero miles!), especially since they are not paying what little they are supposed to refund. I almost laughed when I was told how much I would get back after having the policy for a few months and I did laugh when the Rep added, "but refunds won't be issued until the NW insolvency is resolved." What a joke.
As for disputing any credit card charges without signatures, I believe I signed and mailed a receipt of contract with WG when they sent me my paperwork. I suppose I should have read that over real well, huh? That is when I would have learned about my so-called no-hassle refund would be practically all gone from the 3 yrs and 36k I already had on the car. Gotta give'em credit: They aren't just crooks, but they are smart crooks. And I know, I'm a fool for trusting them.
As for Mass-emailing WG, be careful. Since they are protected via bankruptcy and harrassment from creditors (like US) wouldn't surprise me if they try and sue their own customers that they already screwed over!
arbitration has to go to "matercard"
while if you have Discover card
thats it they are the issuers and arbitrators
they issue thier own ..now I see"discovered" the advantage of discover card
On topic, I've been e-mailing sites that link to WG and have had good success with getting them to stop advertising to warranty gold. If you decide to do the same, be as courteous as possible as most of the admin's have no idea that any of this is going on. Stick to the facts, you shouldn't have to embellish to make WG look bad.
I have a dispute filed with my credit card (as of the 15th). I need to call them Monday and see what the status is. How many of you have successfully reversed the charges only to have the temporary credit removed?
First part was to tickedoff1, I see from your post 1404, you got off track of which post you were replying to, no biggy.
76ta1 - I'd make sure to talk to Chase about the fact that even if you cancel, per the terms of your contract, and are due a pro-rated refund, Warranty Gold IS NOT PAYING THE REFUNDS they are supposed to. So you still have a legitimate gripe and grounds for a charge-back.
I cancelled in the 3rd week of July and have not received a refund yet. This week I will send a demand letter to Walter Kammerman, WG CEO, demanding payment of my refund. And I will continue to do so every 3 weeks until paid. Besides this I plan to take other actions to continue to put the pressure on him to pay me what he owes me. I'm making this personal!!!
Send me, thru my e-mail address, the email of WG's CEO. Make sure to put WG in subject field since I delete e-mail from names I don't know. This is all I can say regarding this !
I'll be contacting Discover Card today to get an update to my dispute filed in October.
To be continued............
Ray T.
Here's the kicker though, if Discover receives no response from WG the charges are reinstated and nothing more can be done since the claim is beyond their 180 dispute time frame. Telling them I will close my account if Discover doesn't protect me as it's customer meant absolutely nothing to them and they even offered to cancel my card today ! So much for customer service from DC. Knowing full well WG is not going to respond I guess it may well be time to dump DC for a more customer oriented credit card company.
Ray T.
Dave
news8austin.com/content/top_stories/?ArID=89494
PS
the camera really DOES add 20 lbs(at least)... honest.
When did you buy and when did you submit the dispute, maybe that's the difference? or do I need to sharpen my pencil again!
I would think also that if WG fails to respond then the refund should stand. WG has until 12/3 to respond, just as your case, to my dispute.
While typing this I called DC again and talked to "Curtis" he stated that legally WG has 90 days to respond but DC usually issues a permanent credit after the 30 day response period. Should a response come on the 89th day from the "seller" showing the charge was valid, the charge is reinstated to the your credit card. We also are given copy of WG response to respond to thru DC.
Cross your fingers this works out for all of us taken by this unscrupulous company and keep the info highway open on this board so all can see and do to get our hard earned dollars back.
Ray T.
Should I send them a HUGE complaint - and I have compiled MANY pages and pages of stuff from News stories, National Warranty disclosures, and how WG deceived us, continued to commit fraud via their website with "testimonials" from people who NOW own worthless contracts like me, etc. Or should I just be Short and to the point that they deliberately did NOT notify my back in June, so how could I cancel anyway which should not be the case since I did NOT want to cancel! Isn't WG in breach of the contract by not providing what I am paying for? What is the big argument?
Any advice for my dispute?
Apparently taking the "I cannot believe the audacity of theives like WG" route isn't working.
I purchased the 6yr/100,000 Diamond on 7/26/02. WG was calling and reduced the price to somewhat more reasonable price of $1689 from well over $2K. I had payments of $489 down and $120 after that for 10 months. My last 2 payments occurred on 4/03 and 5/03. Those have been refunded under the 6 month dispute. The other amount is still pending with a 3 Dec 03 response deadline. In my dispute letter which was mailed 10/17/03, I stated the facts of the situation and backed up my payment claim with a Quicken printout. DC finally got to the dispute on 11/3/03 and gave WG a 30 day response time line. TICK-TICK.
Dave
It seems unbelievable that you are able to dispute a contract from July 2002, yet Mastercard won't allow me to dispute (for the same reasons) from March 2003!
archive.org
This site will let you go back and look at the WG website at a given period of time. I've printed out the last date they have on record where it shows how they take care of their customers, and are protected, blah, blah, blah.
Don't know if it will help, but it couldn't hurt.
Ironically This statement was on the FEB 2003 page when I shopped for WG: In BOLD no less:
"Warranty Gold won't play games with your money."
Do I need to mention it is NOT on their current site? I guess they DO play games with it.
It would be very helpful to know who or who does not take care of their customers.
Like with my experience, they understand my claim, but will only help so much due to their "policy" when it comes to protecting me from businesses like WG.
More CUTE little REASSURANCES from WG that were FALSE:
From the WG website, Feb 2003
What reassurance do I have that your company will be here in years to come to honor claims?
Warranty Gold submits actuarily required funds to a third-party administrator, which sets up "trust reserves". These reserves are used to pay for claims.
Are your vehicle service contracts adequately backed?
Yes. Warranty Gold's claim reserve is reinsured to offer you, the consumer, the ultimate in protection. Our Administrator reinsures our Trust Reserves twice to adequately cover all claims today and tomorrow. The insurer that backs our contracts is "A-" (Excellent) rated and the reinsurer is "A" (Excellent) rated by A.M. Best. Your Warranty Gold service contract is absolutely reliable and secure.
Doesn't that make you feel SAFE?
What should we say in our objection letters to the attorney? The most obvious thing I object to is having my contract voided. Another is WG proposing a pro-rated refund. I didn't cancel the contract, Warranty Gold did! Consequently, I claimed the full contract purchase price when I filed my claim with the bankruptcy court.
There's only a few days left to object, we need to get organized!
NOTE TO ALL HOLDERS OF CONTRACTS SOLD PRIOR TO
JUNE 7, 2003:
ON NOVEMBER 12, 2003, THE BANKRUPTCY COURT
ENTERED AN ORDER AT THE DEBTORS REQUEST
REJECTING ALL EXTENDED WARRANTY CONTRACTS SOLD
BY WARRANTY GOLD PRIOR TO JUNE 7, 2003. IF YOU
WISH TO REQUEST A COPY OF THIS ORDER, YOU MAY DO
SO BY EMAILING REORGANIZATION@WARRANTYGOLD.COM.
TO FILE AN OBJECTION TO THIS ORDER, YOU MUST
FILE THE OBJECTION IN WRITING WITH THE ATTORNEY
FOR THE DEBTOR LISTED ABOVE BY DECEMBER 8, 2002.
DO NOT FILE THE OBJECTION WITH THE BANKRUPTCY
COURT. A STATUS HEARING ON RESPONSES/OBJECTIONS
TO THIS ORDER WILL BE HELD ON DECEMBER 23, 2003
AT 1:30 P.M. IN BANKRUPTCY COURTROOM #1, HOMER
THORNBERRY JUDICIAL BUILDING, 903 SAN JACINTO,
AUSTIN, TEXAS 78701. IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR
AN OBJECTING OR RESPONDING PARTY TO ATTEND THE
12/23 HEARING AS NO RIGHTS WILL BE DETERMINED
AT THAT TIME. AT THE 12/23 HEARING, THE COURT
WILL ONLY CONSIDER THE PROCEDURE BY WHICH SUCH
OBJECTIONS OR RESPONSES CAN BE SCHEDULED AND
THE TIME FOR FILING CLAIMS RESULTING FROM
REJECTION OF THESE CONTRACTS.
DEADLINES TO FILE A PROOF OF CLAIM:
Proof of claim must be received by the
bankruptcy clerks office by the following
deadline:
For all creditors (except a governmental unit):
MARCH 17, 2004
For a governmental unit: MAY 11, 2004
For instructions and forms for filing a proof
of claim, go to:
http://www.warrantynews.com/beforejune6.asp
Address For Filing Of Proofs Of Claim:
Warranty Gold Reorganization
P. O. Box 2227
Austin, Texas 78768-2227
Creditors May Not Take Certain Actions:
The filing of the bankruptcy case automatically
stays certain collection and other actions
against the debtor and the debtors property.
If you attempt to collect a debt or take other
action in violation of the Bankruptcy Code, you
may be penalized.
Address For Filing Pleadings Only:
U.S. Bankruptcy Court
903 San Jacinto, suite 322
Austin, TX 78701
www.txwb.uscourts.gov
For the Court:
/s/ Lawrence T. Bick
Clerk of the Bankruptcy Court
EXPLANATIONS
Filing of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Case:
A bankruptcy case under Chapter 11 of the
Bankruptcy Code (Title 11, United States Code)
has been filed in this court by or against the
debtor listed on the front side, and an order
for relief has been entered. Chapter 11 allows
a debtor to reorganize or liquidate pursuant to
a plan. A plan is not effective unless
confirmed by the court. You may be sent a copy
of the plan and a disclosure statement telling
you about the plan, and you might have the
opportunity to vote on the plan. You will be
sent notice of the date of the confirmation
hearing, and you may object to confirmation of
the plan and attend the confirmation hearing.
Unless a trustee is serving, the debtor will
remain in possession of the debtors property
and may continue to operate any business.
Creditors May Not Take Certain Actions:
Prohibited collection actions are listed in
Bankruptcy Code 362. Common examples of
prohibited actions include contacting the debtor
by telephone, mail, or otherwise to demand
repayment; taking actions to collect money or
obtain property from the debtor; repossessing
the debtors property; starting or continuing
lawsuits or foreclosures.
Meeting of Creditors:
A meeting of creditors is scheduled for the
date, time and location listed on the front
side. The debtor or debtors representative
must be present at the meeting to be questioned
under oath by the trustee and by creditors.
Creditors are welcome to attend, but are not
required to do so. At the meeting, the creditors
may elect a trustee other than the one named on
this notice, examine the debtor, and transact
such other business as may properly come before
the meeting. The meeting may be continued and
concluded at a later date without further notice.
FAILURE OF THE DEBTOR OR HIS ATTORNEY TO APPEAR
AT THE SECTION 341(a) MEETING OR TO TIMELY FILE
SCHEDULES AND STATEMENT OF AFFAIRS MAY RESULT IN
DISMISSAL, DENIAL OF THE DEBTORS DISCHARGE, OR
OTHER APPROPRIATE RELIEF.
Claims:
A proof of claim is a signed statement describing
a creditors claim. If a proof of claim is not
included with this notice, you can obtain one at
any bankruptcy clerks office. You may look at
the schedules that have been or will be filed at
the bankruptcy clerks office. If your claim is
scheduled and is not listed as disputed,
contingent, or unliquidated, it will be allowed
in the amount scheduled unless you file a Proof
of Claim or you are sent further notice about
the claim. Whether or not your claim is
scheduled, you are permitted to file a Proof of
Claim. If your claim is not listed at all or if
your claim is listed as disputed, contingent, or
unliquidated, then you must file a Proof of Claim,
or you might not be paid any money on your claim
against the debtor in the bankruptcy case. The
court has set March 17, 2004 as the deadline to
file a Proof of Claim if you are not a
governmental entity. The court has set May 11,
2004 as the deadline to a Proof of Claim if you
are a governmental entity. Pursuant to Local
Rule 3002(a)&(b) proof of claim or proof of
interest shall be filed in duplicate, complete
with attachments. A copy with attachments shall
be served on the debtors attorney.
Discharge of Debts:
Confirmation of a chapter 11 plan may result in
a discharge of debts, which may include all or
part of your debt. See Bankruptcy Code 1141(d).
A discharge means that you may never try to
collect the debt from the debtor, except as
provided in the plan.
Any proof of claim should be filed at the
following address:
Warranty Gold Reorganization
P. O. Box 2227
Austin, Texas 78768-2227
A motion or other pleading (other than an
objection or response to the 11/12/03 rejection
order) should be filed at the following address:
U.S. Bankruptcy Court
903 San Jacinto, suite 322
Austin, TX 78701
You may inspect all papers filed, including the
list of the debtors property and debts, at the
bankruptcy court or at:
http://www.warrantynews.com/pleadings.asp.
Legal Advice:
The staff of the bankruptcy clerks office cannot
give legal advice. You may want to consult an
attorney to protect your rights. For further
information, please email
reorganization@warrantygold.com.
=============================================
Porter Rogers Dahlman & Gordon
Attn: Lynn Hamilton Butler
2600 Via Fortuna, Suite 130
Austin, TX 78746
Subject: Objection to Order in Warranty Gold’s Bankruptcy Case Number 03-15721
Ref: Warranty Gold Contract # WG XXXXXX
I object to the order allowing Warranty Gold to reject the referenced extended warranty contract. I bought this contract in good faith, and paid for it in full at the time of purchase. I have continued to abide by the terms of the contract by performing and keeping documentation of all required scheduled maintenance activity.
I performed massive amounts of research before purchasing this service contract. I even spoke with Mr. Steve Rossi on the phone a couple of times to get a better understanding of why I should go with Warranty Gold (see attachment 2). I also relied heavily on Warranty Gold’s web site for information. For example, their claim that “Warranty Gold doesn’t gamble with our customer’s money,” “Warranty Gold won’t play games with your money,” and “With Warranty Gold, you are protected for the life of the contract.” (see attachments 3-5)
I do not want this contract cancelled. I paid Warranty Gold in full, and I expect them to honor their commitment. If they no longer wish to do so, they may issue a refund for the entire purchase price. Page 15 of my contract states that I may cancel the contract at any time and “a portion of the contract charge may be refunded according to the pro-rata method.” Well, I do not seek to cancel our contract, Warranty Gold does. Consequently, I do not want a pro-rated refund. Warranty Gold can either honor our contract or issue me a full-price refund.
I also object to this order because I bought this contract from Warranty Gold, not from its re-insurers. Consequently, I do not want my contract voided because of the problems of a failed re-insurer. As long as Warranty Gold remains in business I expect my contract to be honored.
Sincerely,
5 Attachments:
1. Warranty Gold Contract Declaration Page
2. Pre-purchase e-mail from Steve Rossi (2 pages)
3-5. Copies of Downloaded Warranty Gold Web Site Pages
With all do respect you have been watching too many Perry Mason reruns with that "I object to the order" business (scroll below). You're wasting your time with such a letter. You'll be better served trying to enter this item in dispute with your credit card company/and or following the court claim process.
None of these WG people have the money to pay our claims or give us refunds so in this case court bankruptcy protection gives us customers the greatest potential to get something back from WG.
=========
#1427 of 1427 Here's My Draft Objection, Any Thoughts? by takenbywg1 Nov 30, 2003 (4:36 pm)
Below is a copy of the draft objection letter I plan to send in before December 8th. Any comments? I'm not a legal person, so I have no idea if this will suffice, but I thought I'd post it here to at least get the ball rolling. I have no intention of taking this lying down!!!
=============================================
Porter Rogers Dahlman & Gordon
Attn: Lynn Hamilton Butler
2600 Via Fortuna, Suite 130
Austin, TX 78746
Subject: Objection to Order in Warranty Gold’s Bankruptcy Case Number 03-15721
Ref: Warranty Gold Contract # WG XXXXXX
I object to the order allowing Warranty Gold to reject the referenced extended warranty contract. I bought this contract in good faith, and paid for it in full at the time of purchase. I have continued to abide by the terms of the contract by performing and keeping documentation of all required scheduled maintenance activity.
I performed massive amounts of research before purchasing this service contract. I even spoke with Mr. Steve Rossi on the phone a couple of times to get a better understanding of why I should go with Warranty Gold (see attachment 2). I also relied heavily on Warranty Gold’s web site for information. For example, their claim that “Warranty Gold doesn’t gamble with our customer’s money,” “Warranty Gold won’t play games with your money,” and “With Warranty Gold, you are protected for the life of the contract.” (see attachments 3-5)
I do not want this contract cancelled. I paid Warranty Gold in full, and I expect them to honor their commitment. If they no longer wish to do so, they may issue a refund for the entire purchase price. Page 15 of my contract states that I may cancel the contract at any time and “a portion of the contract charge may be refunded according to the pro-rata method.” Well, I do not seek to cancel our contract, Warranty Gold does. Consequently, I do not want a pro-rated refund. Warranty Gold can either honor our contract or issue me a full-price refund.
I also object to this order because I bought this contract from Warranty Gold, not from its re-insurers. Consequently, I do not want my contract voided because of the problems of a failed re-insurer. As long as Warranty Gold remains in business I expect my contract to be honored.
Sincerely,
5 Attachments:
1. Warranty Gold Contract Declaration Page
2. Pre-purchase e-mail from Steve Rossi (2 pages)
3-5. Copies of Downloaded Warranty Gold Web Site Pages
True, those of us are still fighting WG thru our Credit Cards, and WG is fighting back. And Takenbywg1 may not have a CC chargeback option if the contract was purchased a while ago. I am having a difficult enough time with my CC going back ONLY 4 months and WG STILL is not satisfied with ripping me off for over 600 bucks from my deposit & payment from 6 months prior.
You see, I don't want a pro-rated refund. Some folks might be happy with that, but not me. I believe WG should either transfer us to their new administrator or give us a full refund.
So, in my opinion, those of us that don't want to settle should send in a letter of objection. It may not make any difference, but even if only half of us object, that's well over 30,000 people!
As for the wording of my letter, I'm not a lawyer. I was simply using the same wording that was in the bankruptcy notification. It clearly stated that we must file objections in writing, so I mirrored that same language in my letter...an approach I'm sure even Perry Mason would've approved of. ;-)
(You might want to take a look at that notification. See #1425 above)
The bankruptcy court will locate all of WG's assets and look at all of the claims from customers, employees, vendors, and others. In the end the court will divide up WG's assets based on an orderly judicial process.
The WG officers and managers will be highly motivated to truthfully disclose all the WG assets, and other business relationships, as perjury can result in jail time.
Without the orderly process of court bankruptcy one large creditor could aggressively jump in and get a judgment in the large creditor's favor wiping out all the assets, leaving thousands of us "small" customers with no assets to ever get. Assets could also "disappear."
In the bankruptcy court process the court will get all the facts, sort it all out, and in a judicial process distribute what assets are left.
The attorneys, accountants, investigators, and others needed to straighten this out will also be paid from this "asset pot." And no, I am not an attorney or an accountant.
As a customer I got "screwed", it happens and no I don't like it.
However, WG can't simply walk away from past debts. They must be paid. For WG to come out from under bankruptcy protection, they must pay previous claims or pro-rated cancelled policies, whether they were cancelled by us or the bankruptcy court.
Assuming all of this is true (no I'm not a lawyer), the bankruptcy courts are the best way we will get at least something back, but we have to file a claim to the court, which I've already done.
Although I'm 100 percent behind the Chapter 11 reorganiztion, I'm not convinced allowing WG to reject our contracts is the best way for us to recover our money. If enough people object, the court will order them to revise their plan.
I'd much rather the court order WG to use whatever they can recoup from NWIC to pay for transferring us to the new administrator, or to make refunds to those that who have already sent in cancellation requests.
I'm sure WG has looked at that option and discarded it because it would severely diminish or even wipe out their profits for the forseeable future. Oh, well...remember that their web site says they are staying in business and continuing to sell warranties just so they can help us out. Well, then, let them use their profits to help!
Has WG's president/CEO offered to forego his salary until this is settled? How many refunds would that cover if he did? How about all the advertising money they've saved by choosing not to publicize this mess? How many claims would that pay? You can bet your pro-rated refund that WG's reorg plan is in THEIR best interest, which may or may not be in ours. Face it, selling extended warranties has to be a lucrative business or WG would have simply closed up shop. They're reorganizing in their best interest so they can keep selling warranties and making money...which may or may not help those of us who bought prior to June 7, 2003. If you don't think it will, send in your written objection.
Actually according to court papers on robphlans website, Michael Kammerman is listed as one of the top 20 creditors. Translation, he will get his money before we get ours (to the tune of 20k). Kind of a slap in the face, huh?
Actually, as far as I have been able to figure out, you can't sue a company that's under chapter 11 protection. Also, I think with the exception of New Jersey, you would have to bring suit in Austin, where WG is based. You can file in your local jurisdiction, but WG would request (and probably get) a change of venue.
In particular, I am looking for a source of more specific information about a fact contained in a newspaper report that KPMG had determined that Warranty Gold had been warned of financial problems with National Warranty in late 2002. I would like to obtain a copy of any documents evidencing that notice since I purchased TWO policies in May 2003 - several months after Warranty Gold was on notice of a financial problem.
This is a copy of the newspaper report:
"He also said Warranty Gold didn't learn of National Warranty's financial plight until June 6, although a report from KPMG, the accounting firm handling the liquidation, says National Warranty warned Warranty Gold late in 2002 that it might not have enough money to cover its service contracts."