Got Chase's letter saying they are sorry, they can't help in doing a credit for services not rendered. Seems since I never filed a claim for a repair, they cannot consider it services not rendered. I first have to file a claim, of which I do not have a repair needing to be done. I bought a policy in April, 2003 and paid $1620.00 for it and have $920 invested so far. The crappy thing about all of this is if WG had been an honest company and notified all of us, I could have cancelled the contract during the 60 day period and been due a 100% refund. At least I saved the other $700 from the WG thieves. But get this, it seems WG told them I had the choice of continuing the warranty (which is worthless) or cancel and receive a pro-rated refund for the unused portion, which is "0" dollars due to how the crooks wrote the policy to revert to 0 miles on a new policy.
At this point I am moving on. WG can choke on my money and Chase Bank will definitely get a cut up card back as they are not for consumer protection.
I do not recommend using any credit card except American Express, as they have been the only card that really seems to protect the consumer. They respond faster than anyone and have been the only card company to ever call me concerning questionable activity on my card.
I am having a similar problem as WG is claiming the same thing for me about cancellation, and I was NOT Told when I purchased the policy a refund would be pro-rated back to ZERO miles (As we HAVE a manufacturer's warranty!) but it is to insure we receive little to nothing back! My big problem is the fact we were never NOTIFIED TO cancel even if we wanted to! They delibereately withheld the information for as long as possible (or until every newspaper/ TV station did a story on them) and sent me a letter 5 MONTHS after the June insolvency. Yea, I just received my "Sorry BS" letter in November (yet it was dated in October). They did this and continued charging our CCs - how can this be LEGAL when they knew they would not provide service? How does their behavior excuse them because we didn't NEED the service yet? We were left UNprotected but were paying for PROtection! Can't wait to see their dispute over my dispute. It isn;t enough for them to steal my Pre-June payments of over 600 bucks?? They have'em made out of STEEL.
Ok. So I have been "cramming" all of this boloney! Trying to figure out what's on the "pop-quiz", what are the correct answers. I have read as much as I can! Uggg. Someone Please. Just found out 11/4/03, I/we want to get our claim pd. 11/5/03 and get the remaining portion of our policy. I know - ya right. The bankruptcy notice is too "legal" - we need lay mans terms. Anyone?
I am a merchant that accept credits card, when ever one of my customers dispute a charge, i am required to sent a copy of a swiped or imprinted slip of the charge to the bank within a certain time period. Since WG only took my info over the phone without requiring me to sign any type of document to sent back. I would assume that if i just tell my credit card company that i have no idea what the charges were for and I have never even heard of WG. they would have to contact WG to get prove we signed up. Since no contract was ever signed I don't think that WG can prove anything. the only way is if they sent a recording of the phone conversation and that would take alot of work. Even if your caught lying, you can easily say you forgot. And if the CC company question why the charges went on for several months before you notify them, just say in the past u didn't look at it closely or someone else were paying it for u. The problem with alot of the posting is that everyone seems to be acknowledging the charges to the CC and and hoping the cc company will understand the situation but that tells them the charges are legit. In regards to the bankruptcy preventing credits back to credit cards, I would assume that since WG is still doing business and is still accepting credit cards, the banks still can debit or credit WG's credit card account.
Any warranty company that wants your money on-line or money before you read the contract, you better run! These thieves are promoting the warranties they have made up and self administrate! Buy from a broker, not a marketing company. Read the contracts, do your homework!
Excellent post #1384 above. Many should consider requesting a copy of the sales slip, which merchants are required by law to keep for 12 months minimum. WG will be unable to provide one.
I did the services rendered route. Last night I cancelled my credit card which had posted a credit in late October. I had not used it since I initiated my dispute in late September, requested a check for my credit balance and now the account is closed.
My policy I got in 6/02 specified the pro-rated cancellation amount. I don't have my policy here right now, but my understanding was that the refund was prorated between zero miles and whatever the limit was on your policy. I believe they also amortized the length of your contract and gave you the LESSER amount of the two computations. So, for example, if you bought a 100k mile limit policy on a car with 45k miles on it, and wished to cancel the policy 5 months later with 50k miles on the car, you would only be entitled to a 50% refund.
Are you saying that WG is actually giving back ANY contract refunds of policies sold before 6/03??
76ta1 - Did you "save" $700 because you didn't pay the full premium in April and stopped paying the balance, or because you got a pro-rated refund??
A trucker who drives an 80,000lb truck NEEDS that capacity to pull freight. The contractor who buys a huge pickup NEEDS to haul and tow large quantities of gear, tools, materials, crew. The livery driver who buys a large van or SUV NEEDS space for people and luggage. The family with 1.2 children does not (in most cases) NEED a Ford Excursion. Nor does the average single person NEED an Escalade to commute to work. When others needs put me at greater risk, I say OK. When other persons wants put me at greater risk, I begin to have a problem. For those of you who NEED a large SUV once or twice a year for family vacation, why not save yourself the $5000 premium over a car and rent one?
The only way I saved $700 from WG is cancelling my old CC number. And yes WG did lead Chase to believe there would be a refund, but due to their slick way of wording the policy it cost me $920 for less than 5 months of warranty of which 3 months were after July, 03.
By my calculations according to WG policy, even though my policy was bought in April, 03, and I only have driven this car 3000 miles since I bought it, I still owe WG over $100. That is due to reverting the miles to "0". If I calculate by time, they owe me about $600 through the month of October. But remember it is the lesser of the two.
How's that for a stick in the eye. But let them try to collect it.
After I cancelled my CC#, I recieved two dunn notices from WG concerning my late payments.
My suggestion is to overload thier e-mail system with a few words of just what you think about them.
They publicly post their email address on thier website for different departments and you might as well try to collect what they owe you by causing them some aggravation. 65,000 people could make a statement to their inbox. You could do this every day.
When I asked my CC company about cancelling my account I was led to believe the dispute has to be settled - cause I would have cancelled it when I received my chargeback. But WG had (and of course TOOK) the action to dispute my dispute so until it is resolved cancelling my account would not leave me free of WG or I figure I'd owe my CC company the amount reversed and they'd come after me. The pro-rated refund crap is a joke (zero miles!), especially since they are not paying what little they are supposed to refund. I almost laughed when I was told how much I would get back after having the policy for a few months and I did laugh when the Rep added, "but refunds won't be issued until the NW insolvency is resolved." What a joke.
As for disputing any credit card charges without signatures, I believe I signed and mailed a receipt of contract with WG when they sent me my paperwork. I suppose I should have read that over real well, huh? That is when I would have learned about my so-called no-hassle refund would be practically all gone from the 3 yrs and 36k I already had on the car. Gotta give'em credit: They aren't just crooks, but they are smart crooks. And I know, I'm a fool for trusting them.
As for Mass-emailing WG, be careful. Since they are protected via bankruptcy and harrassment from creditors (like US) wouldn't surprise me if they try and sue their own customers that they already screwed over!
Well, my cc company gave me some news today! They gave me back 500.00 of the 740.00 WG owed me on my cancelled pro-rated contract. I'll still file a claim since they put me through this nightmare to begin with. Besides, knowing WG they will come up with some BS to reverse the charge but at least I have some satisfaction for the moment! A big thank you to those who suggested how to properly word a dispute for charges over the 60 day limit!
Since the chargebacks are a dispute that WG can dispute and I WILL dispute again, my CC co told me these are temp credits until the mess is resolved most likely thru arbitration with Mastercard.
if you have a cc like chase or MBNA etc the final arbitration has to go to "matercard"
while if you have Discover card thats it they are the issuers and arbitrators they issue thier own ..now I see"discovered" the advantage of discover card
Sorry for the off topic post. I was switching between this board and anther and accidently posted to the wrong one. On topic, I've been e-mailing sites that link to WG and have had good success with getting them to stop advertising to warranty gold. If you decide to do the same, be as courteous as possible as most of the admin's have no idea that any of this is going on. Stick to the facts, you shouldn't have to embellish to make WG look bad. I have a dispute filed with my credit card (as of the 15th). I need to call them Monday and see what the status is. How many of you have successfully reversed the charges only to have the temporary credit removed?
This is a repost of my earlier post #1395, which was deleted for being too harsh, sorry mods!
First part was to tickedoff1, I see from your post 1404, you got off track of which post you were replying to, no biggy.
76ta1 - I'd make sure to talk to Chase about the fact that even if you cancel, per the terms of your contract, and are due a pro-rated refund, Warranty Gold IS NOT PAYING THE REFUNDS they are supposed to. So you still have a legitimate gripe and grounds for a charge-back.
I cancelled in the 3rd week of July and have not received a refund yet. This week I will send a demand letter to Walter Kammerman, WG CEO, demanding payment of my refund. And I will continue to do so every 3 weeks until paid. Besides this I plan to take other actions to continue to put the pressure on him to pay me what he owes me. I'm making this personal!!!
Yup, the host was on the hunt and deleted my post response to yours and tickedoff. Send me, thru my e-mail address, the email of WG's CEO. Make sure to put WG in subject field since I delete e-mail from names I don't know. This is all I can say regarding this ! I'll be contacting Discover Card today to get an update to my dispute filed in October. To be continued............
Discover Card has issued "temporary credit" on my account for the 2 policies purchased in 2002. WG has 30 days to respond from 11/4/03 credit date. Here's the kicker though, if Discover receives no response from WG the charges are reinstated and nothing more can be done since the claim is beyond their 180 dispute time frame. Telling them I will close my account if Discover doesn't protect me as it's customer meant absolutely nothing to them and they even offered to cancel my card today ! So much for customer service from DC. Knowing full well WG is not going to respond I guess it may well be time to dump DC for a more customer oriented credit card company.
Discover needs WG to repsond? My MC (and Amex is the same way from what I recall) said if WG did NOT respond then the credits would be permanent but of course WG repsonded - don't be shocked if they still respond and Dispute YOUR dispute as they are still in business. They really expect us to continue Paying for this worthless warranty MONTHS after they refused to honor it. I wonder why DC insists a merchant respond?
Wait a minute Rayt2. I am getting a different message from DC. According to Clay in DC "Disputes", if WG DOES NOT respond to a customer dispute by the 30 day deadline, then your temp. credit becomes permanent. My deadline is Dec 3 and as of yesterday WG had not responded to my claim. I mentioned the WG bankruptcy. Clay stated that I will get a refund of my entire $1689 (of which $240 falls under the 6 month dispute and already permanently credited) even though WG is in bankruptcy. Clay then stated that DC will go to the bankruptcy court, become a creditor and try to recoup my $1689 and DC will eat any difference from the BK settlement. I'll believe it when I see it, but it made me feel really good that I have received $240 and a very good chance of receiving the entire refund. Dave
That's what "Nikua" of DC disputes stated to me on phone yesterday. I'd much rather hope it goes the way you reported it. When did you buy and when did you submit the dispute, maybe that's the difference? or do I need to sharpen my pencil again! I would think also that if WG fails to respond then the refund should stand. WG has until 12/3 to respond, just as your case, to my dispute. While typing this I called DC again and talked to "Curtis" he stated that legally WG has 90 days to respond but DC usually issues a permanent credit after the 30 day response period. Should a response come on the 89th day from the "seller" showing the charge was valid, the charge is reinstated to the your credit card. We also are given copy of WG response to respond to thru DC.
Cross your fingers this works out for all of us taken by this unscrupulous company and keep the info highway open on this board so all can see and do to get our hard earned dollars back.
Haven't received my WG Dispute from my CC yet...and was wondering if anyone had advice as to what I should submit. Apparently they are legally able to STEAL my money without having to honor a contract so I must continue the fight. Their dispute is I did not "cancel" my policy and they lied I never contacted them when I stated in my first dispute I found out about the insolvency when my dealership had me contact WG. Should I send them a HUGE complaint - and I have compiled MANY pages and pages of stuff from News stories, National Warranty disclosures, and how WG deceived us, continued to commit fraud via their website with "testimonials" from people who NOW own worthless contracts like me, etc. Or should I just be Short and to the point that they deliberately did NOT notify my back in June, so how could I cancel anyway which should not be the case since I did NOT want to cancel! Isn't WG in breach of the contract by not providing what I am paying for? What is the big argument? Any advice for my dispute? Apparently taking the "I cannot believe the audacity of theives like WG" route isn't working.
Look, they're still in business, selling contracts and what have you. They need to start paying claims for their NWIG customers on a first-filed, first-paid basis. And start issuing refunds to those of us that cancelled on a first-cancelled, first-refunded basis. Even if it takes them a while to get to you, eventually you would be compensated and then they could honestly say they have showed good faith. Otherwise, they are just crooks who are passing the buck by blaming NWIG.
THAT is exactly what they are doing, trying to look blameless even after Nat War issued a statement Nat War DID NOT SELL us the policy and it was the seller's responsibilty to honor contracts. What tees me off even more is half of MY MONEY went into the NEW TRUSTEE ACCOUNT paying for the new contract holders repairs or more likely, simply into profits for WG. Ridiculous.
Ray & Nowarranty, I purchased the 6yr/100,000 Diamond on 7/26/02. WG was calling and reduced the price to somewhat more reasonable price of $1689 from well over $2K. I had payments of $489 down and $120 after that for 10 months. My last 2 payments occurred on 4/03 and 5/03. Those have been refunded under the 6 month dispute. The other amount is still pending with a 3 Dec 03 response deadline. In my dispute letter which was mailed 10/17/03, I stated the facts of the situation and backed up my payment claim with a Quicken printout. DC finally got to the dispute on 11/3/03 and gave WG a 30 day response time line. TICK-TICK. Dave
I've gotten mixed messages from my CC company. First I was told the reason my charges BEFORE the June insolvency were not even considered for chargebacks was because I "was technically covered" for those 3 months (Mar/Apr/May). This was a verbal response, I requested a WRITTEN response of denial and never received one from my CC company. When I called back again, the verbal response was "Well prior to June would be over our 120 day chargeback policy". So which is it? I don't know. When I file my dispute that WG is fighting, I am thinking I should once again go back to my Original dispute of the entire policy that WG has breached. I claimed they did not provide service, withheld information (the insolvency) and continued fraudulently charging my CC KNOWING they would not be providing me with the Service. I sent them all the information and all it would take was a simple call to WG to learn they were not honoring the contract, right? Not so simple I guess? So they gave me four months worth of charges as a temp credit, but wouldn't even consider the original Deposit and 3 monthly payments before the June insolvency. The fact that WG is fighting my dispute has irked me enough to want to dispute the entire contract price again despite my CC ignoring my pleas. And shouldn't a CC be required to explain WHY they are not accepting an entire dispute in a written response?
It seems unbelievable that you are able to dispute a contract from July 2002, yet Mastercard won't allow me to dispute (for the same reasons) from March 2003!
I'm putting together my case to make my temporary credit, permanent, and found something that I thought was cool, and possibly helpful.
archive.org
This site will let you go back and look at the WG website at a given period of time. I've printed out the last date they have on record where it shows how they take care of their customers, and are protected, blah, blah, blah.
That's a great idea to at least go back and print out the website from the month I got suckered into buying this crapy warranty. Google has caches of old web pages too which is where I got my "Testamonial" used on the cover web page from November that led new suckers into believing a customer with contracts pre-June 2003 were HAPPY about WG's coverage. Guess they STILL didn't know either, huh? Thanks for the site!
Ironically This statement was on the FEB 2003 page when I shopped for WG: In BOLD no less:
"Warranty Gold won't play games with your money."
Do I need to mention it is NOT on their current site? I guess they DO play games with it.
From what I am seeing here is the Mastercard companies are not being very supportive of this issue and are not assisting with chargebacks. If anyone on here has gotten assistance from MC, please list the details as I would like to use this info in my continuing dispute. I think it would be beneficial to all of us if everyone posted thier experience with all the CC companies i.e.(MC, Visa, Amex, Discover, etc....) It would be very helpful to know who or who does not take care of their customers.
are like Wireless Services - You don't like the Service? We've got MILLIONS of other customers, virtually ALL the cell customer services suck, so GO to them. It's not like you have a choice other then not using this kind of service, beit a Credit Card or a cell for example. I don't think they really care if you stay or go. It's a good strategy to have ALL the big companies provide "rude who cares" customer serive. I haven't had ANY rude CS from my CC, but the overall feeling is "We'll do what we can which is not much." Like with my experience, they understand my claim, but will only help so much due to their "policy" when it comes to protecting me from businesses like WG.
More CUTE little REASSURANCES from WG that were FALSE: From the WG website, Feb 2003
What reassurance do I have that your company will be here in years to come to honor claims?
Warranty Gold submits actuarily required funds to a third-party administrator, which sets up "trust reserves". These reserves are used to pay for claims.
Are your vehicle service contracts adequately backed?
Yes. Warranty Gold's claim reserve is reinsured to offer you, the consumer, the ultimate in protection. Our Administrator reinsures our Trust Reserves twice to adequately cover all claims today and tomorrow. The insurer that backs our contracts is "A-" (Excellent) rated and the reinsurer is "A" (Excellent) rated by A.M. Best. Your Warranty Gold service contract is absolutely reliable and secure.
Can we prevent WG's bankruptcy by contesting it? Is everyone here fighting it? I just read the Bankruptcy notice and we have to notify them by Dec 8th if we are contesting it.
I'd like to file "an objection to the order," but I don't have a copy of the order. Has anyone requested a copy from WG? I tried to down load it from the bankruptcy court's web site but couldn't find it. Couldn't find it on robphelan's web site either.
What should we say in our objection letters to the attorney? The most obvious thing I object to is having my contract voided. Another is WG proposing a pro-rated refund. I didn't cancel the contract, Warranty Gold did! Consequently, I claimed the full contract purchase price when I filed my claim with the bankruptcy court.
There's only a few days left to object, we need to get organized!
The following is a COPY & PASTE of an email I received regarding the bankruptcy. Maybe this will help you.
NOTE TO ALL HOLDERS OF CONTRACTS SOLD PRIOR TO JUNE 7, 2003: ON NOVEMBER 12, 2003, THE BANKRUPTCY COURT ENTERED AN ORDER AT THE DEBTORS REQUEST REJECTING ALL EXTENDED WARRANTY CONTRACTS SOLD BY WARRANTY GOLD PRIOR TO JUNE 7, 2003. IF YOU WISH TO REQUEST A COPY OF THIS ORDER, YOU MAY DO SO BY EMAILING REORGANIZATION@WARRANTYGOLD.COM. TO FILE AN OBJECTION TO THIS ORDER, YOU MUST FILE THE OBJECTION IN WRITING WITH THE ATTORNEY FOR THE DEBTOR LISTED ABOVE BY DECEMBER 8, 2002. DO NOT FILE THE OBJECTION WITH THE BANKRUPTCY COURT. A STATUS HEARING ON RESPONSES/OBJECTIONS TO THIS ORDER WILL BE HELD ON DECEMBER 23, 2003 AT 1:30 P.M. IN BANKRUPTCY COURTROOM #1, HOMER THORNBERRY JUDICIAL BUILDING, 903 SAN JACINTO, AUSTIN, TEXAS 78701. IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR AN OBJECTING OR RESPONDING PARTY TO ATTEND THE 12/23 HEARING AS NO RIGHTS WILL BE DETERMINED AT THAT TIME. AT THE 12/23 HEARING, THE COURT WILL ONLY CONSIDER THE PROCEDURE BY WHICH SUCH OBJECTIONS OR RESPONSES CAN BE SCHEDULED AND THE TIME FOR FILING CLAIMS RESULTING FROM REJECTION OF THESE CONTRACTS.
DEADLINES TO FILE A PROOF OF CLAIM: Proof of claim must be received by the bankruptcy clerks office by the following deadline: For all creditors (except a governmental unit): MARCH 17, 2004
Address For Filing Of Proofs Of Claim: Warranty Gold Reorganization P. O. Box 2227 Austin, Texas 78768-2227
Creditors May Not Take Certain Actions: The filing of the bankruptcy case automatically stays certain collection and other actions against the debtor and the debtors property. If you attempt to collect a debt or take other action in violation of the Bankruptcy Code, you may be penalized.
Address For Filing Pleadings Only: U.S. Bankruptcy Court 903 San Jacinto, suite 322 Austin, TX 78701 www.txwb.uscourts.gov
For the Court:
/s/ Lawrence T. Bick Clerk of the Bankruptcy Court
EXPLANATIONS Filing of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Case: A bankruptcy case under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code (Title 11, United States Code) has been filed in this court by or against the debtor listed on the front side, and an order for relief has been entered. Chapter 11 allows a debtor to reorganize or liquidate pursuant to a plan. A plan is not effective unless confirmed by the court. You may be sent a copy of the plan and a disclosure statement telling you about the plan, and you might have the opportunity to vote on the plan. You will be sent notice of the date of the confirmation hearing, and you may object to confirmation of the plan and attend the confirmation hearing. Unless a trustee is serving, the debtor will remain in possession of the debtors property and may continue to operate any business.
Creditors May Not Take Certain Actions: Prohibited collection actions are listed in Bankruptcy Code 362. Common examples of prohibited actions include contacting the debtor by telephone, mail, or otherwise to demand repayment; taking actions to collect money or obtain property from the debtor; repossessing the debtors property; starting or continuing lawsuits or foreclosures.
Meeting of Creditors: A meeting of creditors is scheduled for the date, time and location listed on the front side. The debtor or debtors representative must be present at the meeting to be questioned under oath by the trustee and by creditors. Creditors are welcome to attend, but are not required to do so. At the meeting, the creditors may elect a trustee other than the one named on this notice, examine the debtor, and transact such other business as may properly come before the meeting. The meeting may be continued and concluded at a later date without further notice.
FAILURE OF THE DEBTOR OR HIS ATTORNEY TO APPEAR AT THE SECTION 341(a) MEETING OR TO TIMELY FILE SCHEDULES AND STATEMENT OF AFFAIRS MAY RESULT IN DISMISSAL, DENIAL OF THE DEBTORS DISCHARGE, OR OTHER APPROPRIATE RELIEF.
Claims: A proof of claim is a signed statement describing a creditors claim. If a proof of claim is not included with this notice, you can obtain one at any bankruptcy clerks office. You may look at the schedules that have been or will be filed at the bankruptcy clerks office. If your claim is scheduled and is not listed as disputed, contingent, or unliquidated, it will be allowed in the amount scheduled unless you file a Proof of Claim or you are sent further notice about the claim. Whether or not your claim is scheduled, you are permitted to file a Proof of Claim. If your claim is not listed at all or if your claim is listed as disputed, contingent, or unliquidated, then you must file a Proof of Claim, or you might not be paid any money on your claim against the debtor in the bankruptcy case. The court has set March 17, 2004 as the deadline to file a Proof of Claim if you are not a governmental entity. The court has set May 11, 2004 as the deadline to a Proof of Claim if you are a governmental entity. Pursuant to Local Rule 3002(a)&(b) proof of claim or proof of interest shall be filed in duplicate, complete with attachments. A copy with attachments shall be served on the debtors attorney.
Discharge of Debts: Confirmation of a chapter 11 plan may result in a discharge of debts, which may include all or part of your debt. See Bankruptcy Code 1141(d). A discharge means that you may never try to collect the debt from the debtor, except as provided in the plan.
Any proof of claim should be filed at the following address: Warranty Gold Reorganization P. O. Box 2227 Austin, Texas 78768-2227
A motion or other pleading (other than an objection or response to the 11/12/03 rejection order) should be filed at the following address:
U.S. Bankruptcy Court 903 San Jacinto, suite 322 Austin, TX 78701
Legal Advice: The staff of the bankruptcy clerks office cannot give legal advice. You may want to consult an attorney to protect your rights. For further information, please email reorganization@warrantygold.com.
Below is a copy of the draft objection letter I plan to send in before December 8th. Any comments? I'm not a legal person, so I have no idea if this will suffice, but I thought I'd post it here to at least get the ball rolling. I have no intention of taking this lying down!!! =============================================
Porter Rogers Dahlman & Gordon Attn: Lynn Hamilton Butler 2600 Via Fortuna, Suite 130 Austin, TX 78746
Subject: Objection to Order in Warranty Gold’s Bankruptcy Case Number 03-15721
Ref: Warranty Gold Contract # WG XXXXXX
I object to the order allowing Warranty Gold to reject the referenced extended warranty contract. I bought this contract in good faith, and paid for it in full at the time of purchase. I have continued to abide by the terms of the contract by performing and keeping documentation of all required scheduled maintenance activity.
I performed massive amounts of research before purchasing this service contract. I even spoke with Mr. Steve Rossi on the phone a couple of times to get a better understanding of why I should go with Warranty Gold (see attachment 2). I also relied heavily on Warranty Gold’s web site for information. For example, their claim that “Warranty Gold doesn’t gamble with our customer’s money,” “Warranty Gold won’t play games with your money,” and “With Warranty Gold, you are protected for the life of the contract.” (see attachments 3-5)
I do not want this contract cancelled. I paid Warranty Gold in full, and I expect them to honor their commitment. If they no longer wish to do so, they may issue a refund for the entire purchase price. Page 15 of my contract states that I may cancel the contract at any time and “a portion of the contract charge may be refunded according to the pro-rata method.” Well, I do not seek to cancel our contract, Warranty Gold does. Consequently, I do not want a pro-rated refund. Warranty Gold can either honor our contract or issue me a full-price refund.
I also object to this order because I bought this contract from Warranty Gold, not from its re-insurers. Consequently, I do not want my contract voided because of the problems of a failed re-insurer. As long as Warranty Gold remains in business I expect my contract to be honored.
Sincerely,
5 Attachments: 1. Warranty Gold Contract Declaration Page 2. Pre-purchase e-mail from Steve Rossi (2 pages) 3-5. Copies of Downloaded Warranty Gold Web Site Pages
With all do respect you have been watching too many Perry Mason reruns with that "I object to the order" business (scroll below). You're wasting your time with such a letter. You'll be better served trying to enter this item in dispute with your credit card company/and or following the court claim process.
None of these WG people have the money to pay our claims or give us refunds so in this case court bankruptcy protection gives us customers the greatest potential to get something back from WG.
=========
#1427 of 1427 Here's My Draft Objection, Any Thoughts? by takenbywg1 Nov 30, 2003 (4:36 pm) Below is a copy of the draft objection letter I plan to send in before December 8th. Any comments? I'm not a legal person, so I have no idea if this will suffice, but I thought I'd post it here to at least get the ball rolling. I have no intention of taking this lying down!!! =============================================
Porter Rogers Dahlman & Gordon Attn: Lynn Hamilton Butler 2600 Via Fortuna, Suite 130 Austin, TX 78746
Subject: Objection to Order in Warranty Gold’s Bankruptcy Case Number 03-15721
Ref: Warranty Gold Contract # WG XXXXXX
I object to the order allowing Warranty Gold to reject the referenced extended warranty contract. I bought this contract in good faith, and paid for it in full at the time of purchase. I have continued to abide by the terms of the contract by performing and keeping documentation of all required scheduled maintenance activity.
I performed massive amounts of research before purchasing this service contract. I even spoke with Mr. Steve Rossi on the phone a couple of times to get a better understanding of why I should go with Warranty Gold (see attachment 2). I also relied heavily on Warranty Gold’s web site for information. For example, their claim that “Warranty Gold doesn’t gamble with our customer’s money,” “Warranty Gold won’t play games with your money,” and “With Warranty Gold, you are protected for the life of the contract.” (see attachments 3-5)
I do not want this contract cancelled. I paid Warranty Gold in full, and I expect them to honor their commitment. If they no longer wish to do so, they may issue a refund for the entire purchase price. Page 15 of my contract states that I may cancel the contract at any time and “a portion of the contract charge may be refunded according to the pro-rata method.” Well, I do not seek to cancel our contract, Warranty Gold does. Consequently, I do not want a pro-rated refund. Warranty Gold can either honor our contract or issue me a full-price refund.
I also object to this order because I bought this contract from Warranty Gold, not from its re-insurers. Consequently, I do not want my contract voided because of the problems of a failed re-insurer. As long as Warranty Gold remains in business I expect my contract to be honored.
Sincerely,
5 Attachments: 1. Warranty Gold Contract Declaration Page 2. Pre-purchase e-mail from Steve Rossi (2 pages) 3-5. Copies of Downloaded Warranty Gold Web Site Pages
With all due respect, THIS is supposed to be a LETTER OF OBJECTION, so what is wrong with takenbywg1's letter? He is entering a LETTER of OBJECTION with his objections. It sounds straight and to the point. I am going to write a similar letter to Object to those crooks voiding contracts and taking our $. True, those of us are still fighting WG thru our Credit Cards, and WG is fighting back. And Takenbywg1 may not have a CC chargeback option if the contract was purchased a while ago. I am having a difficult enough time with my CC going back ONLY 4 months and WG STILL is not satisfied with ripping me off for over 600 bucks from my deposit & payment from 6 months prior.
My court claim was filed and recorded on 20 Nov 2003. I also sent a letter to my CC company, but they haven't had time to respond yet. In my opinion, sending in an objection is simply the next step in this process.
You see, I don't want a pro-rated refund. Some folks might be happy with that, but not me. I believe WG should either transfer us to their new administrator or give us a full refund.
So, in my opinion, those of us that don't want to settle should send in a letter of objection. It may not make any difference, but even if only half of us object, that's well over 30,000 people!
As for the wording of my letter, I'm not a lawyer. I was simply using the same wording that was in the bankruptcy notification. It clearly stated that we must file objections in writing, so I mirrored that same language in my letter...an approach I'm sure even Perry Mason would've approved of. ;-)
(You might want to take a look at that notification. See #1425 above)
I want this to be handled through a bankruptcy court so that we have a reasonable degree of assurance that we'll get something from this. I believe that it is to our benefit that Warranty Gold has filed (or was "forced") for bankruptcy.
The bankruptcy court will locate all of WG's assets and look at all of the claims from customers, employees, vendors, and others. In the end the court will divide up WG's assets based on an orderly judicial process.
The WG officers and managers will be highly motivated to truthfully disclose all the WG assets, and other business relationships, as perjury can result in jail time.
Without the orderly process of court bankruptcy one large creditor could aggressively jump in and get a judgment in the large creditor's favor wiping out all the assets, leaving thousands of us "small" customers with no assets to ever get. Assets could also "disappear."
In the bankruptcy court process the court will get all the facts, sort it all out, and in a judicial process distribute what assets are left.
The attorneys, accountants, investigators, and others needed to straighten this out will also be paid from this "asset pot." And no, I am not an attorney or an accountant.
As a customer I got "screwed", it happens and no I don't like it.
of chapter 11 bankruptcy court is that the company does not plan on going out of business, but must submit a "survival" plan to the court to come out of bankruptcy. While under the protection of the courts, no one can sue the company and force them to pay previous contracts or claims.
However, WG can't simply walk away from past debts. They must be paid. For WG to come out from under bankruptcy protection, they must pay previous claims or pro-rated cancelled policies, whether they were cancelled by us or the bankruptcy court.
Assuming all of this is true (no I'm not a lawyer), the bankruptcy courts are the best way we will get at least something back, but we have to file a claim to the court, which I've already done.
Has anyone here attempted a chargeback with Citibank VISA? I have prepared a small-claims suit against them in the event they fail to homor my request for a chargeback.
I agree that our best shot at getting anything at all is through the courts. However, it's my understanding that the order up for objection is the one allowing WG to actually reject our contracts (not whether or not they can file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, they've already done that).
Although I'm 100 percent behind the Chapter 11 reorganiztion, I'm not convinced allowing WG to reject our contracts is the best way for us to recover our money. If enough people object, the court will order them to revise their plan.
I'd much rather the court order WG to use whatever they can recoup from NWIC to pay for transferring us to the new administrator, or to make refunds to those that who have already sent in cancellation requests.
I'm sure WG has looked at that option and discarded it because it would severely diminish or even wipe out their profits for the forseeable future. Oh, well...remember that their web site says they are staying in business and continuing to sell warranties just so they can help us out. Well, then, let them use their profits to help!
Has WG's president/CEO offered to forego his salary until this is settled? How many refunds would that cover if he did? How about all the advertising money they've saved by choosing not to publicize this mess? How many claims would that pay? You can bet your pro-rated refund that WG's reorg plan is in THEIR best interest, which may or may not be in ours. Face it, selling extended warranties has to be a lucrative business or WG would have simply closed up shop. They're reorganizing in their best interest so they can keep selling warranties and making money...which may or may not help those of us who bought prior to June 7, 2003. If you don't think it will, send in your written objection.
You:Has WG's president/CEO offered to forego his salary until this is settled?
Actually according to court papers on robphlans website, Michael Kammerman is listed as one of the top 20 creditors. Translation, he will get his money before we get ours (to the tune of 20k). Kind of a slap in the face, huh?
You:I have prepared a small-claims suit against them in the event they fail to homor my request for a chargeback.
Actually, as far as I have been able to figure out, you can't sue a company that's under chapter 11 protection. Also, I think with the exception of New Jersey, you would have to bring suit in Austin, where WG is based. You can file in your local jurisdiction, but WG would request (and probably get) a change of venue.
I am preparing to file both a claim with my credit card company and also possibly an objection to the bankruptcy proceedings based upon fraud claims.
In particular, I am looking for a source of more specific information about a fact contained in a newspaper report that KPMG had determined that Warranty Gold had been warned of financial problems with National Warranty in late 2002. I would like to obtain a copy of any documents evidencing that notice since I purchased TWO policies in May 2003 - several months after Warranty Gold was on notice of a financial problem.
This is a copy of the newspaper report:
"He also said Warranty Gold didn't learn of National Warranty's financial plight until June 6, although a report from KPMG, the accounting firm handling the liquidation, says National Warranty warned Warranty Gold late in 2002 that it might not have enough money to cover its service contracts."
Comments
I am planning on being there. If anyone else can go, that would be great.
you can email me for the address
paid $1620.00 for it and have $920 invested so far. The crappy thing about all of this is if WG had been an honest company and notified all of us, I could have cancelled the contract during the 60 day period and been due a 100% refund. At least I saved the other $700 from the WG thieves. But get this, it seems WG told them I had the choice of continuing the warranty (which is worthless) or cancel and receive a pro-rated refund for the unused portion, which is "0" dollars due to how the crooks wrote the policy to revert to 0 miles on a new policy.
At this point I am moving on. WG can choke on my money and Chase Bank will definitely get a cut up card back as they are not for consumer protection.
I do not recommend using any credit card except American Express, as they have been the only card that really seems to protect the consumer. They respond faster than anyone and have been the only card company to ever call me concerning questionable activity on my card.
Good Luck everyone!!!
My big problem is the fact we were never NOTIFIED TO cancel even if we wanted to! They delibereately withheld the information for as long as possible (or until every newspaper/ TV station did a story on them) and sent me a letter 5 MONTHS after the June insolvency. Yea, I just received my "Sorry BS" letter in November (yet it was dated in October). They did this and continued charging our CCs - how can this be LEGAL when they knew they would not provide service? How does their behavior excuse them because we didn't NEED the service yet? We were left UNprotected but were paying for PROtection! Can't wait to see their dispute over my dispute. It isn;t enough for them to steal my Pre-June payments of over 600 bucks?? They have'em made out of STEEL.
I did the services rendered route. Last night I cancelled my credit card which had posted a credit in late October. I had not used it since I initiated my dispute in late September, requested a check for my credit balance and now the account is closed.
Are you saying that WG is actually giving back ANY contract refunds of policies sold before 6/03??
76ta1 - Did you "save" $700 because you didn't pay the full premium in April and stopped paying the balance, or because you got a pro-rated refund??
By my calculations according to WG policy, even though my policy was bought in April, 03, and I only have driven this car 3000 miles since I bought it, I still owe WG over $100. That is due to reverting the miles to "0". If I calculate by time, they owe me about $600 through the month of October. But remember it is the lesser of the two.
How's that for a stick in the eye. But let them try to collect it.
After I cancelled my CC#, I recieved two dunn notices from WG concerning my late payments.
My suggestion is to overload thier e-mail system with a few words of just what you think about them.
They publicly post their email address on thier website for different departments and you might as well try to collect what they owe you by causing them some aggravation. 65,000 people could make a statement to their inbox. You could do this every day.
The pro-rated refund crap is a joke (zero miles!), especially since they are not paying what little they are supposed to refund. I almost laughed when I was told how much I would get back after having the policy for a few months and I did laugh when the Rep added, "but refunds won't be issued until the NW insolvency is resolved." What a joke.
As for disputing any credit card charges without signatures, I believe I signed and mailed a receipt of contract with WG when they sent me my paperwork. I suppose I should have read that over real well, huh? That is when I would have learned about my so-called no-hassle refund would be practically all gone from the 3 yrs and 36k I already had on the car. Gotta give'em credit: They aren't just crooks, but they are smart crooks. And I know, I'm a fool for trusting them.
As for Mass-emailing WG, be careful. Since they are protected via bankruptcy and harrassment from creditors (like US) wouldn't surprise me if they try and sue their own customers that they already screwed over!
arbitration has to go to "matercard"
while if you have Discover card
thats it they are the issuers and arbitrators
they issue thier own ..now I see"discovered" the advantage of discover card
On topic, I've been e-mailing sites that link to WG and have had good success with getting them to stop advertising to warranty gold. If you decide to do the same, be as courteous as possible as most of the admin's have no idea that any of this is going on. Stick to the facts, you shouldn't have to embellish to make WG look bad.
I have a dispute filed with my credit card (as of the 15th). I need to call them Monday and see what the status is. How many of you have successfully reversed the charges only to have the temporary credit removed?
First part was to tickedoff1, I see from your post 1404, you got off track of which post you were replying to, no biggy.
76ta1 - I'd make sure to talk to Chase about the fact that even if you cancel, per the terms of your contract, and are due a pro-rated refund, Warranty Gold IS NOT PAYING THE REFUNDS they are supposed to. So you still have a legitimate gripe and grounds for a charge-back.
I cancelled in the 3rd week of July and have not received a refund yet. This week I will send a demand letter to Walter Kammerman, WG CEO, demanding payment of my refund. And I will continue to do so every 3 weeks until paid. Besides this I plan to take other actions to continue to put the pressure on him to pay me what he owes me. I'm making this personal!!!
Send me, thru my e-mail address, the email of WG's CEO. Make sure to put WG in subject field since I delete e-mail from names I don't know. This is all I can say regarding this !
I'll be contacting Discover Card today to get an update to my dispute filed in October.
To be continued............
Ray T.
Here's the kicker though, if Discover receives no response from WG the charges are reinstated and nothing more can be done since the claim is beyond their 180 dispute time frame. Telling them I will close my account if Discover doesn't protect me as it's customer meant absolutely nothing to them and they even offered to cancel my card today ! So much for customer service from DC. Knowing full well WG is not going to respond I guess it may well be time to dump DC for a more customer oriented credit card company.
Ray T.
Dave
news8austin.com/content/top_stories/?ArID=89494
PS
the camera really DOES add 20 lbs(at least)... honest.
When did you buy and when did you submit the dispute, maybe that's the difference? or do I need to sharpen my pencil again!
I would think also that if WG fails to respond then the refund should stand. WG has until 12/3 to respond, just as your case, to my dispute.
While typing this I called DC again and talked to "Curtis" he stated that legally WG has 90 days to respond but DC usually issues a permanent credit after the 30 day response period. Should a response come on the 89th day from the "seller" showing the charge was valid, the charge is reinstated to the your credit card. We also are given copy of WG response to respond to thru DC.
Cross your fingers this works out for all of us taken by this unscrupulous company and keep the info highway open on this board so all can see and do to get our hard earned dollars back.
Ray T.
Should I send them a HUGE complaint - and I have compiled MANY pages and pages of stuff from News stories, National Warranty disclosures, and how WG deceived us, continued to commit fraud via their website with "testimonials" from people who NOW own worthless contracts like me, etc. Or should I just be Short and to the point that they deliberately did NOT notify my back in June, so how could I cancel anyway which should not be the case since I did NOT want to cancel! Isn't WG in breach of the contract by not providing what I am paying for? What is the big argument?
Any advice for my dispute?
Apparently taking the "I cannot believe the audacity of theives like WG" route isn't working.
I purchased the 6yr/100,000 Diamond on 7/26/02. WG was calling and reduced the price to somewhat more reasonable price of $1689 from well over $2K. I had payments of $489 down and $120 after that for 10 months. My last 2 payments occurred on 4/03 and 5/03. Those have been refunded under the 6 month dispute. The other amount is still pending with a 3 Dec 03 response deadline. In my dispute letter which was mailed 10/17/03, I stated the facts of the situation and backed up my payment claim with a Quicken printout. DC finally got to the dispute on 11/3/03 and gave WG a 30 day response time line. TICK-TICK.
Dave
It seems unbelievable that you are able to dispute a contract from July 2002, yet Mastercard won't allow me to dispute (for the same reasons) from March 2003!
archive.org
This site will let you go back and look at the WG website at a given period of time. I've printed out the last date they have on record where it shows how they take care of their customers, and are protected, blah, blah, blah.
Don't know if it will help, but it couldn't hurt.
Ironically This statement was on the FEB 2003 page when I shopped for WG: In BOLD no less:
"Warranty Gold won't play games with your money."
Do I need to mention it is NOT on their current site? I guess they DO play games with it.
It would be very helpful to know who or who does not take care of their customers.
Like with my experience, they understand my claim, but will only help so much due to their "policy" when it comes to protecting me from businesses like WG.
More CUTE little REASSURANCES from WG that were FALSE:
From the WG website, Feb 2003
What reassurance do I have that your company will be here in years to come to honor claims?
Warranty Gold submits actuarily required funds to a third-party administrator, which sets up "trust reserves". These reserves are used to pay for claims.
Are your vehicle service contracts adequately backed?
Yes. Warranty Gold's claim reserve is reinsured to offer you, the consumer, the ultimate in protection. Our Administrator reinsures our Trust Reserves twice to adequately cover all claims today and tomorrow. The insurer that backs our contracts is "A-" (Excellent) rated and the reinsurer is "A" (Excellent) rated by A.M. Best. Your Warranty Gold service contract is absolutely reliable and secure.
Doesn't that make you feel SAFE?
What should we say in our objection letters to the attorney? The most obvious thing I object to is having my contract voided. Another is WG proposing a pro-rated refund. I didn't cancel the contract, Warranty Gold did! Consequently, I claimed the full contract purchase price when I filed my claim with the bankruptcy court.
There's only a few days left to object, we need to get organized!
NOTE TO ALL HOLDERS OF CONTRACTS SOLD PRIOR TO
JUNE 7, 2003:
ON NOVEMBER 12, 2003, THE BANKRUPTCY COURT
ENTERED AN ORDER AT THE DEBTORS REQUEST
REJECTING ALL EXTENDED WARRANTY CONTRACTS SOLD
BY WARRANTY GOLD PRIOR TO JUNE 7, 2003. IF YOU
WISH TO REQUEST A COPY OF THIS ORDER, YOU MAY DO
SO BY EMAILING REORGANIZATION@WARRANTYGOLD.COM.
TO FILE AN OBJECTION TO THIS ORDER, YOU MUST
FILE THE OBJECTION IN WRITING WITH THE ATTORNEY
FOR THE DEBTOR LISTED ABOVE BY DECEMBER 8, 2002.
DO NOT FILE THE OBJECTION WITH THE BANKRUPTCY
COURT. A STATUS HEARING ON RESPONSES/OBJECTIONS
TO THIS ORDER WILL BE HELD ON DECEMBER 23, 2003
AT 1:30 P.M. IN BANKRUPTCY COURTROOM #1, HOMER
THORNBERRY JUDICIAL BUILDING, 903 SAN JACINTO,
AUSTIN, TEXAS 78701. IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR
AN OBJECTING OR RESPONDING PARTY TO ATTEND THE
12/23 HEARING AS NO RIGHTS WILL BE DETERMINED
AT THAT TIME. AT THE 12/23 HEARING, THE COURT
WILL ONLY CONSIDER THE PROCEDURE BY WHICH SUCH
OBJECTIONS OR RESPONSES CAN BE SCHEDULED AND
THE TIME FOR FILING CLAIMS RESULTING FROM
REJECTION OF THESE CONTRACTS.
DEADLINES TO FILE A PROOF OF CLAIM:
Proof of claim must be received by the
bankruptcy clerks office by the following
deadline:
For all creditors (except a governmental unit):
MARCH 17, 2004
For a governmental unit: MAY 11, 2004
For instructions and forms for filing a proof
of claim, go to:
http://www.warrantynews.com/beforejune6.asp
Address For Filing Of Proofs Of Claim:
Warranty Gold Reorganization
P. O. Box 2227
Austin, Texas 78768-2227
Creditors May Not Take Certain Actions:
The filing of the bankruptcy case automatically
stays certain collection and other actions
against the debtor and the debtors property.
If you attempt to collect a debt or take other
action in violation of the Bankruptcy Code, you
may be penalized.
Address For Filing Pleadings Only:
U.S. Bankruptcy Court
903 San Jacinto, suite 322
Austin, TX 78701
www.txwb.uscourts.gov
For the Court:
/s/ Lawrence T. Bick
Clerk of the Bankruptcy Court
EXPLANATIONS
Filing of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Case:
A bankruptcy case under Chapter 11 of the
Bankruptcy Code (Title 11, United States Code)
has been filed in this court by or against the
debtor listed on the front side, and an order
for relief has been entered. Chapter 11 allows
a debtor to reorganize or liquidate pursuant to
a plan. A plan is not effective unless
confirmed by the court. You may be sent a copy
of the plan and a disclosure statement telling
you about the plan, and you might have the
opportunity to vote on the plan. You will be
sent notice of the date of the confirmation
hearing, and you may object to confirmation of
the plan and attend the confirmation hearing.
Unless a trustee is serving, the debtor will
remain in possession of the debtors property
and may continue to operate any business.
Creditors May Not Take Certain Actions:
Prohibited collection actions are listed in
Bankruptcy Code 362. Common examples of
prohibited actions include contacting the debtor
by telephone, mail, or otherwise to demand
repayment; taking actions to collect money or
obtain property from the debtor; repossessing
the debtors property; starting or continuing
lawsuits or foreclosures.
Meeting of Creditors:
A meeting of creditors is scheduled for the
date, time and location listed on the front
side. The debtor or debtors representative
must be present at the meeting to be questioned
under oath by the trustee and by creditors.
Creditors are welcome to attend, but are not
required to do so. At the meeting, the creditors
may elect a trustee other than the one named on
this notice, examine the debtor, and transact
such other business as may properly come before
the meeting. The meeting may be continued and
concluded at a later date without further notice.
FAILURE OF THE DEBTOR OR HIS ATTORNEY TO APPEAR
AT THE SECTION 341(a) MEETING OR TO TIMELY FILE
SCHEDULES AND STATEMENT OF AFFAIRS MAY RESULT IN
DISMISSAL, DENIAL OF THE DEBTORS DISCHARGE, OR
OTHER APPROPRIATE RELIEF.
Claims:
A proof of claim is a signed statement describing
a creditors claim. If a proof of claim is not
included with this notice, you can obtain one at
any bankruptcy clerks office. You may look at
the schedules that have been or will be filed at
the bankruptcy clerks office. If your claim is
scheduled and is not listed as disputed,
contingent, or unliquidated, it will be allowed
in the amount scheduled unless you file a Proof
of Claim or you are sent further notice about
the claim. Whether or not your claim is
scheduled, you are permitted to file a Proof of
Claim. If your claim is not listed at all or if
your claim is listed as disputed, contingent, or
unliquidated, then you must file a Proof of Claim,
or you might not be paid any money on your claim
against the debtor in the bankruptcy case. The
court has set March 17, 2004 as the deadline to
file a Proof of Claim if you are not a
governmental entity. The court has set May 11,
2004 as the deadline to a Proof of Claim if you
are a governmental entity. Pursuant to Local
Rule 3002(a)&(b) proof of claim or proof of
interest shall be filed in duplicate, complete
with attachments. A copy with attachments shall
be served on the debtors attorney.
Discharge of Debts:
Confirmation of a chapter 11 plan may result in
a discharge of debts, which may include all or
part of your debt. See Bankruptcy Code 1141(d).
A discharge means that you may never try to
collect the debt from the debtor, except as
provided in the plan.
Any proof of claim should be filed at the
following address:
Warranty Gold Reorganization
P. O. Box 2227
Austin, Texas 78768-2227
A motion or other pleading (other than an
objection or response to the 11/12/03 rejection
order) should be filed at the following address:
U.S. Bankruptcy Court
903 San Jacinto, suite 322
Austin, TX 78701
You may inspect all papers filed, including the
list of the debtors property and debts, at the
bankruptcy court or at:
http://www.warrantynews.com/pleadings.asp.
Legal Advice:
The staff of the bankruptcy clerks office cannot
give legal advice. You may want to consult an
attorney to protect your rights. For further
information, please email
reorganization@warrantygold.com.
=============================================
Porter Rogers Dahlman & Gordon
Attn: Lynn Hamilton Butler
2600 Via Fortuna, Suite 130
Austin, TX 78746
Subject: Objection to Order in Warranty Gold’s Bankruptcy Case Number 03-15721
Ref: Warranty Gold Contract # WG XXXXXX
I object to the order allowing Warranty Gold to reject the referenced extended warranty contract. I bought this contract in good faith, and paid for it in full at the time of purchase. I have continued to abide by the terms of the contract by performing and keeping documentation of all required scheduled maintenance activity.
I performed massive amounts of research before purchasing this service contract. I even spoke with Mr. Steve Rossi on the phone a couple of times to get a better understanding of why I should go with Warranty Gold (see attachment 2). I also relied heavily on Warranty Gold’s web site for information. For example, their claim that “Warranty Gold doesn’t gamble with our customer’s money,” “Warranty Gold won’t play games with your money,” and “With Warranty Gold, you are protected for the life of the contract.” (see attachments 3-5)
I do not want this contract cancelled. I paid Warranty Gold in full, and I expect them to honor their commitment. If they no longer wish to do so, they may issue a refund for the entire purchase price. Page 15 of my contract states that I may cancel the contract at any time and “a portion of the contract charge may be refunded according to the pro-rata method.” Well, I do not seek to cancel our contract, Warranty Gold does. Consequently, I do not want a pro-rated refund. Warranty Gold can either honor our contract or issue me a full-price refund.
I also object to this order because I bought this contract from Warranty Gold, not from its re-insurers. Consequently, I do not want my contract voided because of the problems of a failed re-insurer. As long as Warranty Gold remains in business I expect my contract to be honored.
Sincerely,
5 Attachments:
1. Warranty Gold Contract Declaration Page
2. Pre-purchase e-mail from Steve Rossi (2 pages)
3-5. Copies of Downloaded Warranty Gold Web Site Pages
With all do respect you have been watching too many Perry Mason reruns with that "I object to the order" business (scroll below). You're wasting your time with such a letter. You'll be better served trying to enter this item in dispute with your credit card company/and or following the court claim process.
None of these WG people have the money to pay our claims or give us refunds so in this case court bankruptcy protection gives us customers the greatest potential to get something back from WG.
=========
#1427 of 1427 Here's My Draft Objection, Any Thoughts? by takenbywg1 Nov 30, 2003 (4:36 pm)
Below is a copy of the draft objection letter I plan to send in before December 8th. Any comments? I'm not a legal person, so I have no idea if this will suffice, but I thought I'd post it here to at least get the ball rolling. I have no intention of taking this lying down!!!
=============================================
Porter Rogers Dahlman & Gordon
Attn: Lynn Hamilton Butler
2600 Via Fortuna, Suite 130
Austin, TX 78746
Subject: Objection to Order in Warranty Gold’s Bankruptcy Case Number 03-15721
Ref: Warranty Gold Contract # WG XXXXXX
I object to the order allowing Warranty Gold to reject the referenced extended warranty contract. I bought this contract in good faith, and paid for it in full at the time of purchase. I have continued to abide by the terms of the contract by performing and keeping documentation of all required scheduled maintenance activity.
I performed massive amounts of research before purchasing this service contract. I even spoke with Mr. Steve Rossi on the phone a couple of times to get a better understanding of why I should go with Warranty Gold (see attachment 2). I also relied heavily on Warranty Gold’s web site for information. For example, their claim that “Warranty Gold doesn’t gamble with our customer’s money,” “Warranty Gold won’t play games with your money,” and “With Warranty Gold, you are protected for the life of the contract.” (see attachments 3-5)
I do not want this contract cancelled. I paid Warranty Gold in full, and I expect them to honor their commitment. If they no longer wish to do so, they may issue a refund for the entire purchase price. Page 15 of my contract states that I may cancel the contract at any time and “a portion of the contract charge may be refunded according to the pro-rata method.” Well, I do not seek to cancel our contract, Warranty Gold does. Consequently, I do not want a pro-rated refund. Warranty Gold can either honor our contract or issue me a full-price refund.
I also object to this order because I bought this contract from Warranty Gold, not from its re-insurers. Consequently, I do not want my contract voided because of the problems of a failed re-insurer. As long as Warranty Gold remains in business I expect my contract to be honored.
Sincerely,
5 Attachments:
1. Warranty Gold Contract Declaration Page
2. Pre-purchase e-mail from Steve Rossi (2 pages)
3-5. Copies of Downloaded Warranty Gold Web Site Pages
True, those of us are still fighting WG thru our Credit Cards, and WG is fighting back. And Takenbywg1 may not have a CC chargeback option if the contract was purchased a while ago. I am having a difficult enough time with my CC going back ONLY 4 months and WG STILL is not satisfied with ripping me off for over 600 bucks from my deposit & payment from 6 months prior.
You see, I don't want a pro-rated refund. Some folks might be happy with that, but not me. I believe WG should either transfer us to their new administrator or give us a full refund.
So, in my opinion, those of us that don't want to settle should send in a letter of objection. It may not make any difference, but even if only half of us object, that's well over 30,000 people!
As for the wording of my letter, I'm not a lawyer. I was simply using the same wording that was in the bankruptcy notification. It clearly stated that we must file objections in writing, so I mirrored that same language in my letter...an approach I'm sure even Perry Mason would've approved of. ;-)
(You might want to take a look at that notification. See #1425 above)
The bankruptcy court will locate all of WG's assets and look at all of the claims from customers, employees, vendors, and others. In the end the court will divide up WG's assets based on an orderly judicial process.
The WG officers and managers will be highly motivated to truthfully disclose all the WG assets, and other business relationships, as perjury can result in jail time.
Without the orderly process of court bankruptcy one large creditor could aggressively jump in and get a judgment in the large creditor's favor wiping out all the assets, leaving thousands of us "small" customers with no assets to ever get. Assets could also "disappear."
In the bankruptcy court process the court will get all the facts, sort it all out, and in a judicial process distribute what assets are left.
The attorneys, accountants, investigators, and others needed to straighten this out will also be paid from this "asset pot." And no, I am not an attorney or an accountant.
As a customer I got "screwed", it happens and no I don't like it.
However, WG can't simply walk away from past debts. They must be paid. For WG to come out from under bankruptcy protection, they must pay previous claims or pro-rated cancelled policies, whether they were cancelled by us or the bankruptcy court.
Assuming all of this is true (no I'm not a lawyer), the bankruptcy courts are the best way we will get at least something back, but we have to file a claim to the court, which I've already done.
Although I'm 100 percent behind the Chapter 11 reorganiztion, I'm not convinced allowing WG to reject our contracts is the best way for us to recover our money. If enough people object, the court will order them to revise their plan.
I'd much rather the court order WG to use whatever they can recoup from NWIC to pay for transferring us to the new administrator, or to make refunds to those that who have already sent in cancellation requests.
I'm sure WG has looked at that option and discarded it because it would severely diminish or even wipe out their profits for the forseeable future. Oh, well...remember that their web site says they are staying in business and continuing to sell warranties just so they can help us out. Well, then, let them use their profits to help!
Has WG's president/CEO offered to forego his salary until this is settled? How many refunds would that cover if he did? How about all the advertising money they've saved by choosing not to publicize this mess? How many claims would that pay? You can bet your pro-rated refund that WG's reorg plan is in THEIR best interest, which may or may not be in ours. Face it, selling extended warranties has to be a lucrative business or WG would have simply closed up shop. They're reorganizing in their best interest so they can keep selling warranties and making money...which may or may not help those of us who bought prior to June 7, 2003. If you don't think it will, send in your written objection.
Actually according to court papers on robphlans website, Michael Kammerman is listed as one of the top 20 creditors. Translation, he will get his money before we get ours (to the tune of 20k). Kind of a slap in the face, huh?
Actually, as far as I have been able to figure out, you can't sue a company that's under chapter 11 protection. Also, I think with the exception of New Jersey, you would have to bring suit in Austin, where WG is based. You can file in your local jurisdiction, but WG would request (and probably get) a change of venue.
In particular, I am looking for a source of more specific information about a fact contained in a newspaper report that KPMG had determined that Warranty Gold had been warned of financial problems with National Warranty in late 2002. I would like to obtain a copy of any documents evidencing that notice since I purchased TWO policies in May 2003 - several months after Warranty Gold was on notice of a financial problem.
This is a copy of the newspaper report:
"He also said Warranty Gold didn't learn of National Warranty's financial plight until June 6, although a report from KPMG, the accounting firm handling the liquidation, says National Warranty warned Warranty Gold late in 2002 that it might not have enough money to cover its service contracts."