The latest iteration, which debuts next week at the 2012 Geneva Auto Show, substitutes a familiar TDI engine, in this case a 2.0-liter four-cylinder unit slated for widespread use in the company's new MQB modular platform, which will underpin the replacements for the Golf, the Tiguan and a variety of siblings.
The TDI is also coupled with the seven-speed DSG, and makes a thumping 295 lb-ft of torque. As on the earlier Cross Coupe concept, the latest version adds a pair of electric motors, one that delivers 133 lb-ft to the front axle and the other providing 199 lb-ft to the rear. VW says the combination under full load supplies up to 516 lb-ft of torque — considerably more than the 6.3-liter W12 engine that powers the 2012 Audi A8.
The Cross Coupe TDI Hybrid jets from zero to 60 in 6.5 seconds — faster than the gasoline/electric version — and can travel up to 28 miles in pure electric mode, drawing on energy stored in the 9.8kWh lithium-ion battery pack.
VW says the Cross Coupe TDI Hybrid will return an average 55 mpg, giving it a range of 800 miles.
I don't know, pictures lie. I put the back seats in my Sequoia and it has no space at all. You could get a Passat TDI and get 1600 miles out of a tank, if you don't drive like a maniac. :shades:
Any CUV with a 4 cylinder diesel will get my heart rate up enough to come down off my mountain for a look see. We looked at the ML 350 Bluetec and my wife would let me spend the cash on one of those. That may happen before our fall vacation drive. I am convinced I could squeeze 30+ MPG out of the Mercedes. I would rather have 40 but 30 is twice what I get out of the Sequoia. According to VW a Jetta wagon alltrack is on the concept list. It has a little more ground clearance. I could get into that for sure. I like the Sportswagen if it was not so low to the ground.
..."You could get a Passat TDI and get 1600 miles out of a tank, if you don't drive like a maniac. "...
Indeed this was mentioned in the VW/Taylor articles, the biggest thing being the Passat TDI being driven MINUS -5 mpg UNDER the speed limit (presumably 65 mph). There is at once both a lot in the light and HIDDEN about that. Naturally, they probably use a few more trade secrets to pump it past 84 mpg. So in my mind, it would be an almost can do easy 62 mpg, ( if I drove MINUS -5 under the speed limit (65 mph) or drive @ 60 mph) on a road trip. I personally would fight road hypnosis, but hey 62 to 84 mpg IS do able.
But then it does beg the question, WHY, when you can get presumably 55 mpg doing nothing special?
I think this race is designed to keep the Taylors in X country driving contracts. There is one simple premise: IF the Taylors can get 84 mpg in a Passat with a 43 H EPA, what can they ( code for "everyman") get with a CUV with an 55 mpg EPA ? The simple ratios suggest 107 mpg ??? My take (SWAG) is @ 55 mpg, they are running out of wiggle room.
Also if the weights are in and around 2950 to even 3300#s, 295 # ft of torque is very respectable. Current 2.0 TDI engines post 236# ft. So that is 25% more torque.
That is the problem. A joy ride around San Diego would be depleted in about 60 miles or less. Too many hills that really drain the EVs. It would only be for my short trips to Costco, 13 miles each way and many trips 6 miles.
SD (others also) in a lot of ways would be a perfect environment for the plug in EV Prius.
I am sure that way hot temperatures 105 degrees (in Las Vegas) to 0 degrees (many other places in the country) and less can only punish an already optimistic battery life ( shorter range).
Given today's and continued policies of every increasing prices with electrical power prices more than even RUG/PUG/ULSD prices, I would say we can look forward and relish much higher prices. Since this is a diesel thread, when I bought the first diesel in 2003, the "HIGH" price of diesel was 1.85 per gal. I filled today, the cheapest I could find @ 3.97 per gal ULSD. RUG was 4.05 per gal. ULSD given todays prices has AVERAGED a 12.7% rise every year since then.
We will probably repeat this thread when natural gas passenger vehicles become more "viable" :lemon: SOS D F (same old stuff, different fuel)
Perhaps Secretary of the Energy, Steven Chu, Ph'D has got the drill down right. Own ZERO cars, get a government job, so the remaining taxpayers pay to transport him in an entourage of HUGE gasser bullet proof SUV's at ZERO personal expense. :shades: :lemon: Go home free with government paid air line tickets, or military transportation. Well, I guess the good news here is the fed does not pay fed and state fuel taxes, nor state income taxes on the fuel it uses !!
recent discussion of 26 mpg vs 50 mpg, who really cares that I drive a diesel car that literally gets 92% BETTER fuel mileage than Ateixera's? Not only that he( almost hilariously) says it is a fuel sipper
Your attacks have gotten personal, not to mention I never said the Miata was a fuel sipper. To add insult to injury, you misspelled my name.
It's a pure sports car, and a HECK of a lot more fun than any diesel.
I'm considering a fuel sipper but if it makes me half as smug as you are, then I will reconsider!
$3.75 for RUG and $4.19 for diesel this AM. You need to move to where Gary lives, or better yet, to Europe!
the more efficient a system is to begin with, the less energy can be saved by further improving the system's efficiency.
We don't necessarily disagree...
My point was if a conventional diesel saves 20-40% on fuel, then a hybrid diesel should be able to save the same 20-40%.
Now, the part I quote above means it would be 20-40% of a smaller amount to begin with.
Having said that, if a gas+electric hybrid can do 50mpg, then a diesel+electric hybrid should be able to do 60-70mpg. Thing is, going from 50 to 60 means far less real monetary gains, but it's still 20-40%.
I really think you are being way too defensive beyond the question (being has how you didn't directly ANSWER it) or maybe your indirect response REALLY ANSWERS the question.
NO ONE, beyond YOU and me really cares as the (our) anecdotes applying to the over general situation !! ?? Again in that sense, I am smug about NOTHING. Perhaps it is really you, for how did I dare make a contrast between 26 mpg and 50, which you don't believe anyway? Like the host (about my 50 mpg), I really do not care that you get 26 mpg !! It offends me not in the slightest !! Conversationally, if you are happy about it, so am I. HONEST !
Again the second question, but really in light of you not directly answering it, a variation of the original question.
Were you unclear of why I used "fantasy" diesel hybrid Prius?
Given your past choices, I think you would probably be an unlikely candidate to actually buy such a "concept" vehicle, IF it ever hits the US markets. Actually neither would I. CLEARLY (maybe not to you) so does TOYOTA, albeit no diesel hybrid Prius on the US market. So in that sense, we are in probable agreement, both on price/performance and probable execution.
My op/ed is Prius has been/is/remains already priced WAY too high for what it gives you. Evidently CR was not very impressed with the new Prius C. Additionallyt it makes mentioned the redesigned Civic was nixed off the recommended list, some months earlier.
Juice is easier to spell. I think diesel has dropped 20 cents below regular up his way also. Go figure. From the reports on the Golf GTD you would probably like driving it. Alas it will not make it to our 3rd World country. How many cars that can get 50 MPG can hit a top speed of 240 KMH?
Indeed, (for the non CA perspective) CA tends to run highest in the nation when it comes to fuel prices. Is it ALWAYS # !? Thank heavens no! It also does not help that CA has "boutique" fuel blends with pricing to go along. Again it taxes diesel 10.5 cents more so IF there was "justice" Diesel should be 10.5 cents cheaper (3.87). I did post earlier what I paid on Sunday for ULSD. (3.97) with RUG being 4.05 to 4.19.
Sorry but I have trouble even understanding your writing.
What was the question?
Why do I drive the most fun & affordable roadster on the market?
Because I can.
Why does it get 26mpg?
Because it takes me an hour to drive 13 miles. I'm sitting still and idling most of the time. I don't use it on trips and weekends because we have a van for weekends since we need the space. And before you ask, my van does 27mpg with 2 families in it, which beats the MPG per person of any diesel or hybrid on the market, bar none.
Back to my commute.
Guess what? I'm getting 0 mpg in that state (idling in the city).
A diesel would also get 0 mpg.
Do enough of that, even half the time, and your mileage plummets.
I think diesel has dropped 20 cents below regular up his way also.
Unfortunately, not even close. Cheapest diesel is at least 22 cents more, and I've have to drive about 20 minutes to get it, which sort of defeats the purpose.
Rockville is cheaper than Potomac, diesel was $4.05 but regular dropped to $3.53.
And before you ask, my van does 27mpg with 2 families in it, which beats the MPG per person of any diesel or hybrid on the market, bar none.
Not so fast with the bar none. The short wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter people van will hold 12 passengers and is capable of 27 MPG. One owner is claiming 39 MPG, which I find pretty optimistic. My long wheel base tall Sprinter RV got 25 MPG on a regular basis out on the highway cruising at 70 MPH. I don't think the price per passenger mile will be beat by a smaller vehicle. Even the Nissan NV 12 passenger van may beat your Sienna.
Those are amazingly efficient, but not as easy to live with as our van (under 200" length and very quick).
I'd rent one for a big family reunion, though. Last time we got a Ford E something and it was an awful drive. We'd take bets on which kid would get car sick first. Probably got 12mpg, too. :sick:
Those tall ones wouldn't even fit in my car port.
Still, great shuttle or vacation rental.
If you rent a Ford with kids, bring barf bags. You will need them. :sick:
My point was if a conventional diesel saves 20-40% on fuel, then a hybrid diesel should be able to save the same 20-40%.
The other advantage of such a setup is that diesel engines have no problem running at a fixed speed for hours. As a generator or small turbine, they run a few percentage points more efficient than gasoline generators. They also last much, much longer.
In addition, if the engine is always going one exact speed, a smog control system is easy to design and far more efficient. Better life, better efficiency, and less pollution. There's no mistake that locomotives use this technology. Using it in automobiles will net the same sort of gains.
I found our tall Mercedes Sprinter RV a little too unstable in the wind for my taste. And we ended up staying in motels anyway. So an SUV is more practical for us. A person with a lot of kids could justify the Sprinter. Size wise it is big even in the short wheel base version. So is my Sequoia. I am thinking 190" is ideal. I have a big garage so no problem with the Sequoia's 203". We put the rear seats in and it cuts down on the storage too much. The problem is ours has the bucket seats in the second row. So when I had the rear seats in my storage we could only take 4 people. They did ride in comfort with lots of room to stretch out. We still have 2.5 years on our Toyota platinum warranty. As long as I sell before that runs out I am fine. Someone should have a diesel I can't resist by then.
Spring is so tall, has huge side panels....tough to overcome that. OTOH you can play racquetball inside, they're so big.
My van seats 8, so it would take a last name of Dugger to need more than that.
My car port is well sized, but it can be hard to get the trash cans around if it were any bigger (van is 199" or so).
You saw my home-made backup cam/7" Navi in the GPS thread, so that helps parking.
I could combine the Miata/minivan in to one car, but I really think I'd be making huge compromises on both. It would feel big in the city, and small on trips.
Also, a good city car is very different from a good highway/trip car, at least to me.
Maybe I could share one engine between 2 cars. 173 horsepower at 4,500 rpm and 310 pound-feet of torque and a gloriously-low 2,000 rpm. Works for both.
I saw the name of this thread intriguing, however, it has turned into a B*tch fight... Between two people. Why? Sound like two drag queens fighting it out on Raul Paul Drag Race...
My partner and I have been looking into buying a Diesel car now for roughly 6 months. We test drove the new Passt TDI, and was impressed with the car, the rear legroom is very impressive and the real world mileage has been impressive, but the dealers are selling them before they hit the lot. We like the 2011 BMW 335d, and I have found two of them used at great prices, but the thing that had really stopped us from buying was the price of Diesel which was about 20 cents more then premium. However, in the last 3 weeks the price of Diesel has fallen here in phoenix to prices I haven't seen in a while, less then 2 miles our house Diesel can be had for $3.45 gallon this is .20 cheaper then unleaded. So price isn't the issue anymore. I have a 2011 335d at an Atlanta BMW, it is a CPO 6yr/100K mile warrant has 30K miles for $37K the car is fully loaded, and is roughly $4500 under KBB. On my flight back from NY, I'll be making a detour down to Atlanta to see the car, if it as clean as the dealer says, I'll buy it....
So, what is stopping people from buying a Diesel car?
Diesel prices don't make sense to me. Gas has dropped like a rock lately here in Birmingham, AL. Diesel is still sky high, about 50 cents more per gallon.
In the BMW example, the 335d probably is going away in the US, due to the new high mpg 4 cylinders with turbos in the new 3 series.
As I see it, that's the big problem with diesels. Gas powered models continue to advance into the traditional high mpg realm of diesels, and for many, diesel still has a stigma that was largely created by the poor attempt at creating diesel powered cars by GM in the 70's. And, many still think of diesel as being "dirty".
It is surprising that one of the more passionate folks has/does not owned a diesel, even as he states a lot of his family does.
As two that have have seemingly never/have not bought a diesel and part of the 95% that own gassers and probably not diesels, perhaps you might want to answer the question .
If the .20 cent price of diesel differential (over PUG) is one of your main stumbling blocks, you might wish to reconsider getting a 335 D BMW (or any higher performance sports car/sedan, and that use PUG) for that matter. First off, the price of diesel DOES fluctuate.
The first time it goes higher than PUG (if that is your point of comparison) and secondarily RUG, you are going to regret your decision and blame boards like these for your frustration/s. In your case, probably x 2. Another is PUG is almost ALWAYS more costlier than RUG.
Another than literally has nothing to do with diesel, are cars like the BMW's 335 D and 330 I (gassers) literally EAT tires. You might want to price a set of 4. Most folks that I know that have BMW's, get new tires @ 30,000 miles intervals. These situations are by commuting folks and not folks that like to use the sport in sports sedan/car.
The oem 03 Jetta diesel oem GY LS-H's lasted 112,300 miles. The replacements were $308. Is that a guarantee you will get 112,300 miles on a Passat TDI or 30,000 miles on a BMW 335D? N00000 ! . But they will probably be WAY CHEAPER and last longer needing less sets of tires per miles intervals..
If I lived in Birmingham,AL and was paying $3.14/g for regular and Diesel $3.69/g (thanks to Gas Buddy) I wouldn't think about a diesel either, however, I do not and where I live, Diesel is less then Regular which would make better sense then a gas car...
Yes, it will, not much has been released from BMW about it, it will be either a 2L or 2.2L turbo Diesel, roughly 200hp... With the 8 spd auto they have will match up perfectly with the engine. I read this in the one of the car mag's about two months ago.
The price of fuel (diesel) was a stumbling block, when it was .3o cent more then Premium, the added saving of the diesel did not make sense, however, with the price of diesel now .20 less then regular unleaded, the savings are even better. Granted the prices of Fuel goes up and down like a Duncan YoYo, I'm not too sure about getting a diesel. That is why when I saw the header for this forum I thought it would be a good place to read and listen to others... Boy was that a wrong assumption....
BTW, my 2005 330i doesn't eat tires as you say, I'm on my second set of tires, and I have 57K miles on the car and I have around 2K of track miles on my car.
peebs, diesel combustion has many advantages and its fun to discuss them indeed. but boasting about one's college degrees or suggesting them for others is inappropriate.
you are evidently talking about "an additive effect", some kind of mathematical operation conveniently defined by you, let's call it Fpeebs(x,y). You can write it if you like, and start a thread about it. Meanwhile I am talking about the addition operation precisely, and how it does not apply to efficiency percentages. Addition is well-defined, so please don't try to redefine it, ok? It's this: Faddition(x,y) = x + y . (Aka the "sum".)
And this is the fact being discussed: Total efficiency is Less Than the SUM of a system's individual component efficiencies.
There are lots of ways to explain this to those who are interested:
1. ideally a system can only get asymptotically closer to 100% efficiency no matter what technology/technique you add to whatever system.
2. it's like the 'paradox' of tortoise & the hare - the hare can only get halfway closer to the tortoise - he will never reach 100% of the way to the tortoise. if we as the tortoise could *add* efficiency percentages, we could get past 100% efficiency.
3. Two 51% systems cannot be combined to make a 102% efficient system. Instead a ~54% efficiency system will result (approximate/example) if two 51% efficient subsystems are combined.
I would be interested in a 4 cylinder BMW diesel. In the X3 or better in the X5 size SUV. I test drove the X5 35D and it is a rocket. Way more power than I need to get onto the Freeways. I am waiting for the GLK 250 Bluetec, to show up at the dealers this Fall or next Spring. Right now the ML350 Bluetec is on top of my list to replace my gas hog Sequoia. I have about 2.5 years left on the warranty. I want to sell while it is still covered to get top dollar.
So I take it if and when the prices start yoyo ing again, as per both your concerns and .30 cents higher than premium example that it will still make sense to you and you still will be happy? We come at the issue from some of the highest fuel prices in the nation. I will probably SWAG that some parts of Alaska and probably Hawaii are higher. So in a real sense almost EVERYWHERE I go ( by car) fuel is cheaper ! Think of this thread as a testing of the mettle, rather than a new and use diesel car sales/marketing site.
I am also glad your BMW 2005 330I does not eat tires. It is probably one of the few that I heard of that does not. I take it you do not use it to commute much? A relative does and it DOES eat tires. It also has had a lot more little things go wrong with it than I care to document, remember and discuss. LLLLLOVE the car however.
I will likely buy my diesel when the price of diesel fuel is higher than RUG. I did that in 2005 with my Passat TDI and was able to get it well below invoice. I think people are learning as PU and SUV sales are high with the high price of gas.
On BMW tires. If they don't drop the Run-Flat tires they will NOT get my cash. Mercedes has seen the error of RF tires and dropped them at least on the MLs.
RFTs are such a dismal failure that I can't imagine why anybody still offers them. I guess they are hoping the technology will improve soon. Or maybe they just get a super sweet deal on them from the tire manufacturers.
In some respects, BMW USA has really been on notice that it needs to get better fuel mileage, if it wants or needs to skirt the penalties (for not doing so). As you and I have discussed on this thread, this is almost laughable in that many more fuel efficient options, mainly diesel for the nexus of this thread are available world wide that are never seen on the US markets. So for example, if they get the GLK 250 and others, etc, etc, right, for my op/ed it can not help but be a hit. So to my mind yes, 4 cylinder turbo to twin, 8 speed automatic/6 speed manual transmissions, high fuel mileages: 35 to 45 mpg, etc, etc.
At the risk of repeating myself, I absolutely LOVED the BMW 335 D. For any BMW and road/touring car enthusiast, what is not to like about 425# ft of torque and 36 mpg? '11 335 I's post 26 H EPA's . So per year, the diesel would use 417 gal and the gasser 577 gal. So @ todays prices (3.99 D2/4.39 PUG) yearly fuel costs would be 1,664/2,533., or D2 being 869 CHEAPER.
To use another poster's example, albeit concern. So with D2 @ a .30 cent premium to PUG, the yearly cost would be 1,955 ($4.69 x 417gal ). vs $2,533 PUG., or diesel still $577 cheaper.
However, for our major tasks at hand, with more than 87 percent of the anticipated yearly mileage being commute mileage (14k/16k), in one of the worst of the nations commute patterns, it makes almost no sense at all.
It would be akin to strapping a race horse to a plow. It was all the more disappointing in that it did not even have traction amongst the BMW faithful.
Comments
The TDI is also coupled with the seven-speed DSG, and makes a thumping 295 lb-ft of torque. As on the earlier Cross Coupe concept, the latest version adds a pair of electric motors, one that delivers 133 lb-ft to the front axle and the other providing 199 lb-ft to the rear. VW says the combination under full load supplies up to 516 lb-ft of torque — considerably more than the 6.3-liter W12 engine that powers the 2012 Audi A8.
The Cross Coupe TDI Hybrid jets from zero to 60 in 6.5 seconds — faster than the gasoline/electric version — and can travel up to 28 miles in pure electric mode, drawing on energy stored in the 9.8kWh lithium-ion battery pack.
VW says the Cross Coupe TDI Hybrid will return an average 55 mpg, giving it a range of 800 miles.
http://www.insideline.com/volkswagen/cross-coupe/vw-cross-coupe-tdi-hybrid-heads- -to-2012-geneva-auto-show.html
Think it's big enough for you?
Any CUV with a 4 cylinder diesel will get my heart rate up enough to come down off my mountain for a look see. We looked at the ML 350 Bluetec and my wife would let me spend the cash on one of those. That may happen before our fall vacation drive. I am convinced I could squeeze 30+ MPG out of the Mercedes. I would rather have 40 but 30 is twice what I get out of the Sequoia. According to VW a Jetta wagon alltrack is on the concept list. It has a little more ground clearance. I could get into that for sure. I like the Sportswagen if it was not so low to the ground.
http://blogs.vw.com/conceptcars/2012/04/02/wagon-suv-alltrack-between-vw-unveils- -concept-vehicle-ny-auto-show/
Indeed this was mentioned in the VW/Taylor articles, the biggest thing being the Passat TDI being driven MINUS -5 mpg UNDER the speed limit (presumably 65 mph). There is at once both a lot in the light and HIDDEN about that. Naturally, they probably use a few more trade secrets to pump it past 84 mpg. So in my mind, it would be an almost can do easy 62 mpg, ( if I drove MINUS -5 under the speed limit (65 mph) or drive @ 60 mph) on a road trip. I personally would fight road hypnosis, but hey 62 to 84 mpg IS do able.
But then it does beg the question, WHY, when you can get presumably 55 mpg doing nothing special?
I think this race is designed to keep the Taylors in X country driving contracts.
Also if the weights are in and around 2950 to even 3300#s, 295 # ft of torque is very respectable. Current 2.0 TDI engines post 236# ft. So that is 25% more torque.
I am sure that way hot temperatures 105 degrees (in Las Vegas) to 0 degrees (many other places in the country) and less can only punish an already optimistic battery life ( shorter range).
Tata Nano Diesel To Deliver 94 MPG, Non-EPA (thetruthaboutcars.com)
Not everyone in India is enamored with diesels though (sounds familiar...). (Livemint.com)
As of 2010, India is home to 40 million passenger vehicles. link title
2009 NHTSA figures US @ 258.8 M. European is closer to 270.4 M.
..."The number of registered cars, buses, vans, and trucks on the road in China reached 62 million in 2009,"...
link title
Nah, may as well shoot for 100. Nice round number.
40 million cars and 1.2 billion people. Something's going to have to give there somewhere.
If that is true, not too much different in China.
I am not sure what you mean of "what has to give."
We will probably repeat this thread when natural gas passenger vehicles become more "viable"
Perhaps Secretary of the Energy, Steven Chu, Ph'D has got the drill down right. Own ZERO cars, get a government job, so the remaining taxpayers pay to transport him in an entourage of HUGE gasser bullet proof SUV's at ZERO personal expense. :shades: :lemon: Go home free with government paid air line tickets, or military transportation. Well, I guess the good news here is the fed does not pay fed and state fuel taxes, nor state income taxes on the fuel it uses !!
Your attacks have gotten personal, not to mention I never said the Miata was a fuel sipper. To add insult to injury, you misspelled my name.
It's a pure sports car, and a HECK of a lot more fun than any diesel.
I'm considering a fuel sipper but if it makes me half as smug as you are, then I will reconsider!
$3.75 for RUG and $4.19 for diesel this AM. You need to move to where Gary lives, or better yet, to Europe!
We don't necessarily disagree...
My point was if a conventional diesel saves 20-40% on fuel, then a hybrid diesel should be able to save the same 20-40%.
Now, the part I quote above means it would be 20-40% of a smaller amount to begin with.
Having said that, if a gas+electric hybrid can do 50mpg, then a diesel+electric hybrid should be able to do 60-70mpg. Thing is, going from 50 to 60 means far less real monetary gains, but it's still 20-40%.
Uhhhh...you realize that was a concept, right?
When it makes production, I doubt it will be sold in the USA, though I'd love to be wrong.
They should replace the Tiguan with something based on that concept, my fear is it would cost $40 grand equipped.
NO ONE, beyond YOU and me really cares as the (our) anecdotes applying to the over general situation !! ?? Again in that sense, I am smug about NOTHING. Perhaps it is really you, for how did I dare make a contrast between 26 mpg and 50, which you don't believe anyway? Like the host (about my 50 mpg), I really do not care that you get 26 mpg !! It offends me not in the slightest !! Conversationally, if you are happy about it, so am I. HONEST !
Again the second question, but really in light of you not directly answering it, a variation of the original question.
Given your past choices, I think you would probably be an unlikely candidate to actually buy such a "concept" vehicle, IF it ever hits the US markets. Actually neither would I. CLEARLY (maybe not to you) so does TOYOTA, albeit no diesel hybrid Prius on the US market. So in that sense, we are in probable agreement, both on price/performance and probable execution.
My op/ed is Prius has been/is/remains already priced WAY too high for what it gives you. Evidently CR was not very impressed with the new Prius C. Additionallyt it makes mentioned the redesigned Civic was nixed off the recommended list, some months earlier.
CR/Prius C 2012
My op/ed is literally for years CR has been rated well Prius/Civic for easily 1 and 2 decades or more (respectively).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KprlXYwgoec&feature=related
Indeed, we have comments floating around like "Your ego is bigger than the V10 TDI's torque curve."
A little mutual respect goes a long way around here.
Don't they measure in Liters per 100 km over there?
What was the question?
Why do I drive the most fun & affordable roadster on the market?
Because I can.
Why does it get 26mpg?
Because it takes me an hour to drive 13 miles. I'm sitting still and idling most of the time. I don't use it on trips and weekends because we have a van for weekends since we need the space. And before you ask, my van does 27mpg with 2 families in it, which beats the MPG per person of any diesel or hybrid on the market, bar none.
Back to my commute.
Guess what? I'm getting 0 mpg in that state (idling in the city).
A diesel would also get 0 mpg.
Do enough of that, even half the time, and your mileage plummets.
Apples to oranges.
You're not driving my commute.
Nor is your car a roadster.
And again you're comparing your best/ideal mileage to my worst. Remember there are 5 TDIs on fueleconomy.gov reporting 28mpg.
28 mpg vs. 26 mpg is close, plus at diesel prices I'm far better off.
Heck, Subaru had a hybrid roadster concept that met all my needs but never made production.
Hopefully VW turns fantasy in to reality, but for now, it's just a concept.
Edit to add link:
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/tokyo/0310_2004_subaru_b9_scrambler_conc- ept/
Unfortunately, not even close. Cheapest diesel is at least 22 cents more, and I've have to drive about 20 minutes to get it, which sort of defeats the purpose.
Rockville is cheaper than Potomac, diesel was $4.05 but regular dropped to $3.53.
Still a big discrepancy here.
Not so fast with the bar none. The short wheelbase Mercedes Sprinter people van will hold 12 passengers and is capable of 27 MPG. One owner is claiming 39 MPG, which I find pretty optimistic. My long wheel base tall Sprinter RV got 25 MPG on a regular basis out on the highway cruising at 70 MPH. I don't think the price per passenger mile will be beat by a smaller vehicle. Even the Nissan NV 12 passenger van may beat your Sienna.
http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/sprinter/passenger-van
I'd rent one for a big family reunion, though. Last time we got a Ford E something and it was an awful drive. We'd take bets on which kid would get car sick first. Probably got 12mpg, too. :sick:
Those tall ones wouldn't even fit in my car port.
Still, great shuttle or vacation rental.
If you rent a Ford with kids, bring barf bags. You will need them. :sick:
The other advantage of such a setup is that diesel engines have no problem running at a fixed speed for hours. As a generator or small turbine, they run a few percentage points more efficient than gasoline generators. They also last much, much longer.
In addition, if the engine is always going one exact speed, a smog control system is easy to design and far more efficient. Better life, better efficiency, and less pollution. There's no mistake that locomotives use this technology. Using it in automobiles will net the same sort of gains.
My van seats 8, so it would take a last name of Dugger to need more than that.
My car port is well sized, but it can be hard to get the trash cans around if it were any bigger (van is 199" or so).
You saw my home-made backup cam/7" Navi in the GPS thread, so that helps parking.
I could combine the Miata/minivan in to one car, but I really think I'd be making huge compromises on both. It would feel big in the city, and small on trips.
Also, a good city car is very different from a good highway/trip car, at least to me.
Stuff that in a Miata.
Heck, stuff that in a minivan. LOL
Maybe I could share one engine between 2 cars. 173 horsepower at 4,500 rpm and 310 pound-feet of torque and a gloriously-low 2,000 rpm. Works for both.
The ideal configuration.
My partner and I have been looking into buying a Diesel car now for roughly 6 months. We test drove the new Passt TDI, and was impressed with the car, the rear legroom is very impressive and the real world mileage has been impressive, but the dealers are selling them before they hit the lot. We like the 2011 BMW 335d, and I have found two of them used at great prices, but the thing that had really stopped us from buying was the price of Diesel which was about 20 cents more then premium. However, in the last 3 weeks the price of Diesel has fallen here in phoenix to prices I haven't seen in a while, less then 2 miles our house Diesel can be had for $3.45 gallon this is .20 cheaper then unleaded. So price isn't the issue anymore. I have a 2011 335d at an Atlanta BMW, it is a CPO 6yr/100K mile warrant has 30K miles for $37K the car is fully loaded, and is roughly $4500 under KBB. On my flight back from NY, I'll be making a detour down to Atlanta to see the car, if it as clean as the dealer says, I'll buy it....
So, what is stopping people from buying a Diesel car?
As I see it, that's the big problem with diesels. Gas powered models continue to advance into the traditional high mpg realm of diesels, and for many, diesel still has a stigma that was largely created by the poor attempt at creating diesel powered cars by GM in the 70's. And, many still think of diesel as being "dirty".
Personally, I love the 335d. Tons of torque!
Now I hope BMW gets series about a diesel 5 series sedan, that would be the one for me..
As two that have have seemingly never/have not bought a diesel and part of the 95% that own gassers and probably not diesels, perhaps you might want to answer the question .
If the .20 cent price of diesel differential (over PUG) is one of your main stumbling blocks, you might wish to reconsider getting a 335 D BMW (or any higher performance sports car/sedan, and that use PUG) for that matter. First off, the price of diesel DOES fluctuate.
The first time it goes higher than PUG (if that is your point of comparison) and secondarily RUG, you are going to regret your decision and blame boards like these for your frustration/s. In your case, probably x 2. Another is PUG is almost ALWAYS more costlier than RUG.
Another than literally has nothing to do with diesel, are cars like the BMW's 335 D and 330 I (gassers) literally EAT tires. You might want to price a set of 4. Most folks that I know that have BMW's, get new tires @ 30,000 miles intervals. These situations are by commuting folks and not folks that like to use the sport in sports sedan/car.
The oem 03 Jetta diesel oem GY LS-H's lasted 112,300 miles. The replacements were $308. Is that a guarantee you will get 112,300 miles on a Passat TDI or 30,000 miles on a BMW 335D? N00000 ! . But they will probably be WAY CHEAPER and last longer needing less sets of tires per miles intervals..
I would love to see some info on it!
BTW, my 2005 330i doesn't eat tires as you say, I'm on my second set of tires, and I have 57K miles on the car and I have around 2K of track miles on my car.
you are evidently talking about "an additive effect", some kind of mathematical operation conveniently defined by you, let's call it Fpeebs(x,y). You can write it if you like, and start a thread about it.
Meanwhile I am talking about the addition operation precisely, and how it does not apply to efficiency percentages. Addition is well-defined, so please don't try to redefine it, ok? It's this: Faddition(x,y) = x + y . (Aka the "sum".)
And this is the fact being discussed:
Total efficiency is Less Than the SUM of a system's individual component efficiencies.
There are lots of ways to explain this to those who are interested:
1. ideally a system can only get asymptotically closer to 100% efficiency no matter what technology/technique you add to whatever system.
2. it's like the 'paradox' of tortoise & the hare - the hare can only get halfway closer to the tortoise - he will never reach 100% of the way to the tortoise. if we as the tortoise could *add* efficiency percentages, we could get past 100% efficiency.
3. Two 51% systems cannot be combined to make a 102% efficient system. Instead a ~54% efficiency system will result (approximate/example) if two 51% efficient subsystems are combined.
4. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
Lucky you, it's .30 more than regular here.
And don't worry about other discussions, you're welcome to ask questions, provide info, etc.
It's like walking into the middle of a conversation, some work is required on your part to get it pointed where you want.
I am also glad your BMW 2005 330I does not eat tires. It is probably one of the few that I heard of that does not. I take it you do not use it to commute much? A relative does and it DOES eat tires. It also has had a lot more little things go wrong with it than I care to document, remember and discuss. LLLLLOVE the car however.
On BMW tires. If they don't drop the Run-Flat tires they will NOT get my cash. Mercedes has seen the error of RF tires and dropped them at least on the MLs.
At the risk of repeating myself, I absolutely LOVED the BMW 335 D. For any BMW and road/touring car enthusiast, what is not to like about 425# ft of torque and 36 mpg? '11 335 I's post 26 H EPA's . So per year, the diesel would use 417 gal and the gasser 577 gal. So @ todays prices (3.99 D2/4.39 PUG) yearly fuel costs would be 1,664/2,533., or D2 being 869 CHEAPER.
To use another poster's example, albeit concern. So with D2 @ a .30 cent premium to PUG, the yearly cost would be 1,955 ($4.69 x 417gal ). vs $2,533 PUG., or diesel still $577 cheaper.
However, for our major tasks at hand, with more than 87 percent of the anticipated yearly mileage being commute mileage (14k/16k), in one of the worst of the nations commute patterns, it makes almost no sense at all.
It would be akin to strapping a race horse to a plow. It was all the more disappointing in that it did not even have traction amongst the BMW faithful.