I use to commute in the car about 35 miles RT, 3x a week. Then I took a job that gave me a company car, and now I travel around the US , so my car sits in the garage. My 2011 328i only has 3500 miles on it and it up for sale, I don't use it and do not need it, it was impulse buy.
You owe me lunch ! I just kept you from making a costly impulse buy. And so you complain about a .30 cent premium of PUG to D2? , (135 gals worth?) or 40 bux? :P
Off topic, my CPA also complains about the (his) BMW 3 series eating tires. He doesn't even commute. I should even tell a CPA joke here.
A kid that works at our bank has one of the new little BMW coupes. He cut one of his RFT in the first 1000 miles. It cost him $380 for a new one. He was not happy about that. Loves the car though.
Not too sure about saving me, the new car will be my partners, he has a Nissan Rogue and it is time for a new car for him,he is on a diesel kick right now, I look at the price of the Passt SEL with Premium package, $34K (VW is not dealing on these cars at all) or this BMW 335d I found for 37K. I believe the BMW is a better deal all around then the VW. The BMW is a CPO, so it come with a 6yr- 100K mile warranty, with maintenance for that time, which mean no cost to use....
BTW my 330i does not have RFT.... My 2011 does and I do not like them...
A lot really depends on what uses the car will be put. Goals can be important also. I just gave you one example, in a previous post of why we passed on a fantastic road/touring car. So if you can't or won't comment, then responses will be at best "shotgun".
Indeed if BMW puts an 8 speed in a newer diesel MY 2013 +, albeit I6 twin turbo or I4 with whatever configurations, you might even regret NOT waiting. I have to say I am more than satisfied with the 8 speed A/T, even as I think a 6/7/8 speed manual would have been outstanding. (I think only Porsche has a 7 speed manual. )
Jumping Jeepers ! I paid $264 including installation for the second set of Honda Ciivic tires!!
This is WAY off topic (non diesel) , but just got back one of the commute cars 04 H Civic from my fav Japanese oem repair facility. The ace mechanic and service advisor are both telling me that @ 140,000 miles, the oem rear brakes have app 70% LEFT . So even if I take them to 10% (leaving a lot on the table so to speak) the rears are projected to go a total of 280,000-300,000 miles. !!! ?? The tires got rotated and @ 66,000 miles on the 2nd set, (crappy oems changed @ 74,300) again looks to be able to go a min of 120,000 miles total. He also did a 23,000 miles OCI.
So I guess the "bad news" is the Jetta TDI (to get back on topic) is LESS maintenance INTENSE. :shades:
The smaller 7er diesel, which I rented in Germany, doesn't feel fast (although 0-60 is something like 7.2, perfectly fine for a boat). You have to push it a little, and diesels don't like that, likely nor would the American luxobarge buyer.
S350 is also AWD, I wonder if it will be an xdrive here.
Those GLK epa numbers are pitiful, I hope they perform better in the real world.
I could get to like being cramped into the GLK 250 Bluetec if it can get 44 MPG. That is beyond incredible when you look at the vehicle. Will any SUV/CUV sold in the USA come close to that? The much uglier RX450H is lucky to get 29 MPG combined, with a TMV of $45K. Makes the $43k seem like a bargain.
Yes, the 43 mpg H EPA for the current 2012 Passat sets a very high bar. Of course in the back of a lot of folks minds is the 84 + mpg (by the Taylors) that can be gotten with a little to a LOT of focus.
44+ mpg on a crossover (admittedly smaller) further demonstrates diesels' value, if power (torque) and mpg are important variables. Two important signposts are the 2.1 L CDI engine and 369 # ft of torque. The 2.0 TDI has already been shown to be a workhorse standard and @ 236 # ft.
I really like the ride and comfort of the ML. I wish I would see some real life mileage figures on these vehicles. The 2012 is an entirely new drivetrain than the previous version. Much better rating on the EU tests. If that carries to the US models I could get as much as 36 MPG on the highway. That would make me smile cruising down the highway.
Excellent car for BMW, they will sell every single one of those cars. MB has priced themselves out of the market, having the S class start at 94K, the 7 series starts at 72K. People who can afford a S Class do not care about price of gas....
You might be surprised. Most people that can afford to buy an MB S with cash, did not get that way being foolish with money. Most I know are very frugal.
I would swag those MY's unit sales goals are FAR less than the American made MB ML 350 (diesel specifically). I read in passing and remember posting their 2012 MY sales goals as 36,000 units (?), diesel percentages unknown and unspecified.
As a comparison/contrast, VW is looking to sell 2012 VW Touaregs over (their 2011 MY of app) 7,532 units.
But where would a diesel 7er start? IMO, if you can blow 75K on a car, you can blow 95K, and the S outsells the 7 especially on the global market. Sales figures show these things haven't been overpriced. Hell, I can get a new nicely equipped S550 today for roughly 100K. 20 years ago, a nice 500SEL was 85K+. Not much inflation.
The W221 hasn't been too bad, but an early W220 is a risky proposition, anything that hasn't been maintained by the book is Russian roulette. V12 cars are generally a mistake.
Remember when I considered taking that big MB V12 as part trade on my Sprinter RV. You recommended against it. I am glad I held out for someone with the cash. We are ready have one tuna boat LS400. Did not need a second one.
You are probably right about the lease bit. I have no business to write off the lease so it does not work for me. I have heard that the big sales we are seeing in cars is leases and sub prime auto loans. Here we go again.
Yeah, that V12 would have been costly, even if you do a low mileage, things will go wrong. I would only take a later car, preferably with warranty. Anything more than 10 years old can be scary unless you can do work yourself.
Look how many 3-4 year old highline cars are on the used lots. Lease returns. Smart money often leases, not only for the writeoff (which in many cases is undeserved), but as the leases are subsidized and barely cover depreciation, if that. Keep it for 3 or so years and walk - always under warranty.
Seeing how much of the nation technically has subprime credit, that has to be in the recent sales boom too. Probably not on many diesel cars though, they tend to be more expensive.
If you can find one, the MB tex stuff is nice enough, so base wouldn't be bad. I doubt they make very many, maybe one per dealer just to put in the ads as the lease special.
Tex cars might not be the majority, but they are not uncommon, I suspect a lot of the cars advertised as "leather" aren't. The average person probably can't tell the difference.
What would it take for me to buy a diesel? That's easy. Make them so they stop belching noxious fumes.
I hate being behind a diesel on the road, the fumes fill up the car, and that's when the diesel is 100 ft ahead. Hate having to hold my breath until I can get by. I don't know why it's even legal to have a diesel when gas cars have to pass stringent smog tests to be allowed on the road.
Edit: you own a 1986 Mazda B2000, per your post in another thread. If you locked yourself in a garage, what do you think would kill you quicker? A new, clean diesel, or your 80s truck?
It's unkillable, you'll see junkyard cars with nice interiors. Modern leather ages well too though, seems to take a good 20+ years to show problems, and by then the car usually has bigger things to worry about.
That attitude point of view is reminiscent of the late 70's and eighties. If you did not know to look for identifying badges (TDI's, bluetec, turbo diesel, etc.), you could not even tell you were behind a decade or so old ( ULSD) diesel passenger car. The interesting thing is that NO ONE harkens back to the time (mid to late 70's) when LEADED premium and LEADED regular were almost the 100% products !!! In addition, while still unknown the ppm sulfur was even HIGHER.
Now, if it is a choice between what you dislike/ like better; ULSD or RUG to PUG, EVERYBODY has their preferences. I also realize the above opinion is probably more prevalent, even as for whatever reasons "smellier" RUG/PUG users are tolerated and in some to a lot of cases, welcomed. As for greater toxicity and actual pollution, the majority of gassers make both volume and percentage much more. One sign post is ULSD get way better fuel mileage than GASSERS RUG/PUG. (aka, burn LESS????) As for the so called noxious fumes, I do not think anybody will say that diesel and RUG PUG do not BOTH emit.
So for example, RUG to PUG is delivered @ the pump from 30 ppm sulfur to 90 ppm sulfur (with off line FEE mitigation) ULSD is delivered from 5-7 ppm sulfur, with a standard of 15 ppm. So standard to standard, RUG/PUG is 2 times dirtier than ULSD. (30 ppm to 15 ppm) In terms of nominally delivered at the pumps, it can range from 6 to 18 times dirtier than ULSD. When you factor in biodiesel @ ZERO ppm sulfur, the figures almost become mathematically meaningless. But for conversational purposes, with a (artificial) value of 1 ppm biodiesel, RUG/PUG is actually more like 30 to 90 TIMES dirtier.
So defacto, many more people LIKE the smell of much dirtier RUG/PUG air while professing DIESEL/s being "dirtier." So really the opinion is not supported by the facts. I do know that many people when made aware of the facts are still of that expressed opinion.
Air quality districts have gone on record time and time again (CA metropolitan areas, i.e., LA, SF, SJ, ) saying that 5% of gasser polluters cause the majority of "over" pollution. Hence they encourage the general public to call specific phone numbers to report "GROSS" (assumption being gasser) polluters.
A friend of a friend showed up at a party with an ancient Benz diesel, running like a champ of course. The seat padding had disintegrated, it was funny, but the vinyl was still OK, some 40 years later...
"Make them so they stop belching noxious fumes. I hate being behind a diesel on the road, the fumes fill up the car, and that's when the diesel is 100 ft ahead."
I tested that just this last month. I drove home right behind a new VW TDI one day, and a new Mercedes diesel the next. In neither case did I smell anything, nor did I see the slightest puff of smoke.
I had your concerns with old diesels, I hated being behind them. But there is no reason to worry about the new ones.
I am not sure I would want to be the one testing that VM diesel engine. I was hoping the Grand Cherokee would have the same engine as the ML350 Bluetec. I think they share chassis design. As many issues as the last Jeep diesel of Italian design had, makes me hesitant. I like the looks of the GC better than the Mercedes. Not ready to be a test bed for Italian engineering. In fairness most of the problems were caused by the added smog crapolla. The Germans seem to be designing their diesels cleaner to start with.
I think if you look at after market gasser and diesel parts, gasser modifications (95% gasser 5% diesel populations) almost TOTALLY outgun diesels. So if you are saying that gassers (by implication) do not smell (according to you and your ear plugged wife) the position is misleading at best.
Wasn't the Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD engine from VM Motori? Supposedly the short lived GC 3.0L CRD was of MB design. It looks like VM Motori is partly owned by Daimler.
I do notice caricature MONSTER trucks( diesels or even gassers) in this "neck of the woods" very few are so called "smokers".
When so called "CAFE" racing was popular for (gasser) ricers, LEO's would actually stop vehicles for emissions inspections and impound, if there were too many non certified equipment, without the proper EPA numbers.
Comments
Off topic, my CPA also complains about the (his) BMW 3 series eating tires. He doesn't even commute. I should even tell a CPA joke here.
BTW my 330i does not have RFT.... My 2011 does and I do not like them...
Indeed if BMW puts an 8 speed in a newer diesel MY 2013 +, albeit I6 twin turbo or I4 with whatever configurations, you might even regret NOT waiting. I have to say I am more than satisfied with the 8 speed A/T, even as I think a 6/7/8 speed manual would have been outstanding. (I think only Porsche has a 7 speed manual. )
All the best, whatever you decide.
This is WAY off topic (non diesel) , but just got back one of the commute cars 04 H Civic from my fav Japanese oem repair facility. The ace mechanic and service advisor are both telling me that @ 140,000 miles, the oem rear brakes have app 70% LEFT . So even if I take them to 10% (leaving a lot on the table so to speak) the rears are projected to go a total of 280,000-300,000 miles. !!! ?? The tires got rotated and @ 66,000 miles on the 2nd set, (crappy oems changed @ 74,300) again looks to be able to go a min of 120,000 miles total. He also did a 23,000 miles OCI.
So I guess the "bad news" is the Jetta TDI (to get back on topic) is LESS maintenance INTENSE.
$43k ain't cheap, but they managed 44.4mpg in their test.
That's over double the highway number for the GLK350 (EPA 16/22).
The GLK is a bit small but still. My sister is looking for something like that right now, though her price range is about half as much.
S350 is also AWD, I wonder if it will be an xdrive here.
Those GLK epa numbers are pitiful, I hope they perform better in the real world.
44+ mpg on a crossover (admittedly smaller) further demonstrates diesels' value, if power (torque) and mpg are important variables. Two important signposts are the 2.1 L CDI engine and 369 # ft of torque. The 2.0 TDI has already been shown to be a workhorse standard and @ 236 # ft.
?? The RX is 188" long, the GLK is 178", and most interior dimensions are larger for the RX. The GLK is about the same size as a Forester.
Ninja edit > me.
I can't imagine the ML diesel would cost a lot more than $44k. Save up and get that.
Yeah, but that'll be stripped. Can't imagine many going out the door for less than $50K, given how MB sets up the options.
As a comparison/contrast, VW is looking to sell 2012 VW Touaregs over (their 2011 MY of app) 7,532 units.
One would have to be financially retarded to pay cash for one unless they were going to keep it for 20+ years. Depreciation is stupefying.
New ones don't tend to attract self-made wealth anyway.
You are probably right about the lease bit. I have no business to write off the lease so it does not work for me. I have heard that the big sales we are seeing in cars is leases and sub prime auto loans. Here we go again.
Look how many 3-4 year old highline cars are on the used lots. Lease returns. Smart money often leases, not only for the writeoff (which in many cases is undeserved), but as the leases are subsidized and barely cover depreciation, if that. Keep it for 3 or so years and walk - always under warranty.
Seeing how much of the nation technically has subprime credit, that has to be in the recent sales boom too. Probably not on many diesel cars though, they tend to be more expensive.
I hate being behind a diesel on the road, the fumes fill up the car, and that's when the diesel is 100 ft ahead. Hate having to hold my breath until I can get by. I don't know why it's even legal to have a diesel when gas cars have to pass stringent smog tests to be allowed on the road.
That's an outdated stereotype.
Edit: you own a 1986 Mazda B2000, per your post in another thread. If you locked yourself in a garage, what do you think would kill you quicker? A new, clean diesel, or your 80s truck?
Seriously...
No doubt a new TDi or bluetec pollutes less than a 26 year old car.
Now, if it is a choice between what you dislike/ like better; ULSD or RUG to PUG, EVERYBODY has their preferences. I also realize the above opinion is probably more prevalent, even as for whatever reasons "smellier" RUG/PUG users are tolerated and in some to a lot of cases, welcomed. As for greater toxicity and actual pollution, the majority of gassers make both volume and percentage much more. One sign post is ULSD get way better fuel mileage than GASSERS RUG/PUG. (aka, burn LESS????) As for the so called noxious fumes, I do not think anybody will say that diesel and RUG PUG do not BOTH emit.
So for example, RUG to PUG is delivered @ the pump from 30 ppm sulfur to 90 ppm sulfur (with off line FEE mitigation) ULSD is delivered from 5-7 ppm sulfur, with a standard of 15 ppm. So standard to standard, RUG/PUG is 2 times dirtier than ULSD. (30 ppm to 15 ppm) In terms of nominally delivered at the pumps, it can range from 6 to 18 times dirtier than ULSD. When you factor in biodiesel @ ZERO ppm sulfur, the figures almost become mathematically meaningless. But for conversational purposes, with a (artificial) value of 1 ppm biodiesel, RUG/PUG is actually more like 30 to 90 TIMES dirtier.
So defacto, many more people LIKE the smell of much dirtier RUG/PUG air while professing DIESEL/s being "dirtier." So really the opinion is not supported by the facts. I do know that many people when made aware of the facts are still of that expressed opinion.
Air quality districts have gone on record time and time again (CA metropolitan areas, i.e., LA, SF, SJ, ) saying that 5% of gasser polluters cause the majority of "over" pollution. Hence they encourage the general public to call specific phone numbers to report "GROSS" (assumption being gasser) polluters.
I tested that just this last month. I drove home right behind a new VW TDI one day, and a new Mercedes diesel the next. In neither case did I smell anything, nor did I see the slightest puff of smoke.
I had your concerns with old diesels, I hated being behind them. But there is no reason to worry about the new ones.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/08/ram-1500-poised-to-get-diesel-grunt/
Why? Simple reason - trucks use more fuel. Saving 20-40% of "more" means more savings.
Occasionally you'll see a gasser smoking like a foundry too, but seems like they are way outnumbered by the smoking diesels (generally pickups).
Might be another two decades before most of them fade away.
I'm sure my wife could stand at a 4 way stop blindfolded and wearing earplugs and still be able to identify the diesel rigs stopping and going.
I doubt the Benz powertrain is cheap to produce.
After the Jeep CRD fiasco, going Italian may not be a bad idea.
Not really all that many smoking gas clunkers on the roads any more. Plenty of smelly diesel rigs around here though.
I do notice caricature MONSTER trucks( diesels or even gassers) in this "neck of the woods" very few are so called "smokers".
When so called "CAFE" racing was popular for (gasser) ricers, LEO's would actually stop vehicles for emissions inspections and impound, if there were too many non certified equipment, without the proper EPA numbers.