What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?



  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I could see why Toyota would give up the diesel pickup market. Engine development is extremely expensive and the diesel pickup market is pretty mature right now in the USA. It's not ripe for expansion I don't think, so every sale is a conquest sale.

    Diesel pickups are good for RV hauling, horse trailers, etc. Most pickup owners haul themselves around and that's it.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Up to now the reason they have only had diesels in 3/4 ton and bigger pickups and SUVs if a more lax smog control for that size truck. 1/2 tons have to be as clean as a car and so far that is a problem. It was one of the reasons I used to get 3/4 tons trucks rather than 1/2 tons. I didn't have to worry as much about passing smog.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I wonder how many buyers even know that though.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    they are shopping for a lifestyle

    I would venture that is the case for the majority of car shopping/buying.

    Statement shopping/buying is a smaller consideration, but I agree many, maybe most, Prius buyers likely fall into this category. Statement plays a part in lots of car shopping/buying, maybe even diesels.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Hmmm....what IS a diesel lifestyle exactly?

    I mean, you don't get the "feel good" of owning a Prius, because you don't have to explain the Prius's alleged "merits" while rationalizing a diesel to the unknowing isn't that easy.

    You DO get the "out of the ordinary" kind of feeling, that's true, but "maverick lifestyle" doesn't work because a diesel car is not exactly a "bad boy" lifestyle----like when you buy a Harley lifestyle for instance and a leather vest and fright wig.

    We had a Church of Diesel for a while in California, connected to biodiesel and "home brew fuels" but that seems to be dissipating at a fast clip.

    Speaking for myself, I'd buy one just for the different experience of it + fuel efficiency. But I don't think I could pass myself off credibly as an ecologist.

    Prius and Volvo before them seem to pull this off: "Buy a Prius, save the world" kind of thing. or "the car for people who disapprove of cars".

    Very clever marketing, very clever.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Hmmm....what IS a diesel lifestyle exactly?

    LOL - I'm not sure, but I think it involves a truck. ;)

    "Green" is rapidly becoming the marketing mantra all over the place.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I'd agree....diesels + trucks is a recurring image.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,334
    Hmmm....what IS a diesel lifestyle exactly?

    IMHO, this could almost be worth a discussion of its own. Let me take a try. I see diesel lovers falling into one (or more) of three groups:

    1. Diesel vehicles use less fuel This can be subdivided into a) that is good for the planet, b) that is good for the country, and c) that is good for my wallet. c) is a crap shoot, depending on the upfront price of the diesel option, the differential price of diesel and the number of miles you drive. a) is solid, but depends on your opinions on the different emission profiles of gas and diesel. b) is pretty much true because of the improvement in the balance of trade and the decreased dependency on middle east politics.
    Of course, this category is also true of hybrids, and the relative merits of hybrid and diesel are arguable (obvious from the posts on the forum). One determining factor in choosing is the amount of driving done on freeways, where the hybrid offers little advantage over a straight gas vehicle whereas a diesel is squarely in its element.
    2. Diesel vehicles can use biodiesel This enhances number 1 above, at least insofar as the production of biodiesel doesn't compete with food sources. Diesels have a distinct advantage in this area, since in most places they can burn biodiesel in any blend with petrodiesel (if you aren't overly fond of your warrantee) without modification.
    3. I prefer diesels A number of posters have said that they simply prefer the greater torque, especially low down, that a diesel has. This tends to be mentioned more often by people who go up hills a lot.

    In any case, I would be very interested in seeing more discussion on this topic.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    You might be able to mass-market #2 and #3 (e.g., renewable energy for #2, and "dare to be different" for #3) but #1 is going to be *very* tough because the vast majority of Americans have a definite prejudice against diesel engines. Be it rational or irrational, it doesn't matter, IMO it is THERE and it's not going away anytime soon.

    I just don't see anyone "identifying" with the diesel engine unless he's a trucker. It is very hard to stand tall and say "I smell funny and I'm a bit noisy". That seems to work for Harley but not for a diesel Rabbit. :P

    When I had diesel cars, I hide behind the Mercedes star and got away with it in my own mind that way. I had an old Benz, so I was a lover of "classics". That was my ID, not diesel engine lover.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The automakers are going to have to do something about the smell to make inroads with lots of people.

    My wife volunteered to count bikes for two hours during rush hour tonight for some traffic study and she about got gassed out by the diesels.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,348
    Diesel cars need to distance themselves from diesel trucks and commercial vehicles which have been allowed to exist in a bizarre emissions paradise for far too long. Modern diesel cars don't stick out in traffic...the other day I was walking behind a MB GL diesel in a parking lot, and the only clue about it was from its engine noise (which is very hushed compared to an older MB)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I know you'll think I'm exaggerating but I swear i can smell a diesel car when I walk past it in the parking lot. No doubt this is because I am so familiar with them.
  • I guess if you care that much what other people think about what you drive, you aren't ever likely to be a diesel person, unless you move to Europe.
  • The newest diesels don't smell, like the older ones did. Besides, spill gasoline on your hands or clothing, or a bit of diesel, and you'd be hard pressed to say the gas smell on you is better! :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    True enough but when you have a sloppy fill-up around the gas flap, the diesel smell doesn't seem to go away like the gas smell. It sticks around a while. Also why don't they have little plastic gloves at the gasoline pump like they do at the diesel pump?

    I think it's because the diesel fuel doesn't evaporate so quickly. Also when you fill up, if there's a spill on the ground from the last diesel car, it gets on your shoes and from there into the car.

    You can tell I've been through all this. It's not a big deal, just a comment.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    It's not a big deal, just a comment.

    Not to overstate it, but it is kind of a big deal. People just think diesels smell bad and are dirty, so folks are revolted. The fuel stinks and lingers, and trucks and buses belch oily farts that just hang there like a slimy fog. Smell elicits a stronger emotional response than any other of our senses. Newer diesel engines and fuels do not smell as much and are indeed cleaner, but that smell is still there. It is very difficult to break the perception that it is just dirty and disgusting. It is definitely purely perception, because let's face it, gasoline doesn't exactly have a pleasant aroma and exhaust from a gasser ain't rosey either.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Diesel fumes bother my wife's asthma, and she has a very mild case of it. She won't ride in the car with me if I go fill up the lawnmower jug with gas, but she really isn't bothered walking around town. Yesterday she was camped at an intersection for a couple of hours and that's when she really noticed the smell. Sitting at red lights next to a diesel truck with the window's down isn't an option either.

    So it'd take a lot to get us to buy a diesel car, even with the newer filters and better quality fuel.
  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    Personal health issues can certainly play a part. I sympathize with your wife. I don't have asthma, but certain odors and fragrances will quickly give me a pretty nasty headache. I pay close attention when selecting hygiene products. I hold my breath walking through cosmetic departments. I avoid candle shops. Fortunately, my wife isn't into perfumes.

    "New car" bothers me a bit. Fuels and exhaust doesn't seem to have the effect.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I sympathize with those who have the full blown cases of asthma.

    Ever go to IKEA? The outgassing in that place can give you a screaming headache in short order. Candles - soot on the ceiling and nasty smells. Yikes.

    hmmm, diesel flavored candles for Christmas - when's SEMA? Those could sell! :D
  • They would sell to my friend Syb. She loves the smell of diesel fuel, so it is not surprising that she drives a TDI. I can take or leave the smell, but diesel doesn't give me the anxiety that the volatility of gasoline does. I have seen a gasoline explosion. Diesel doesn't burn so easily, so in my pointy little head, it is a lot safer to be riding on a tankful.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I dunno...jet airliners seem to burn pretty good when they auger in.
  • So you are saying jets use #2 diesel??? :confuse: Doesn't matter. If you provide enough heat anything will burn. But a tiny little spark will set off a puddle of gasoline no sweat.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Yes there are jet engines that can use #2 diesel, but not commercial airliners (at present)

    But you could use jet fuel in your diesel righ tnow. The two are not so dissimilar at all.

    Basically the Kerosene Brothers.

    Jet A and Jet B are very much like diesel fuel. A few additives here, a few there, that's about it.
  • braycabrayca Member Posts: 2
    My main concern is price and I agree about the price of available diesels - ouch. Of course the hybrids are also expensive. There are great deals on gas engine cars so until diesels or hybrids are more affordable I'll buy a gas engine car and restrain my lead foot.

    Seems like Detroit could do some minor retooling to convert a few of their models to diesels cheaper than rushing through designing new green vehicles. Or just bring diesels over from their European divisions. Diesel is not the answer to our energy woes, but it does give buyers more choices until the ultimate vehicle is developed.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I was creating the ideal "starter" diesel in my head. A Scion xA 4-door turbo-diesel hatchback, $15,000 + T&L
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    I will be first in line if it makes 60 mpg (I bet they could do it, the gasser makes high 30s) and the rear sway and lower profile tires are standard....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    With the economy the way it is and sales of new cars being down by 30 percent or more I doubt if we are going to see many new diesels hitting our shores anytime soon. Anytime people have to make a choice when buying a new car in times like this price is going to pop towards the top of the list. But we are talking the hypothetical here. The green issue will be with us for some time and diesel is less green than hybrids, gas or CNG. I have no way of telling how much because the posted standards and results are all over the board. If they can bring a diesel small car over in the price range shifty mentioned then people will more than likely be willing to over look the higher particulent standards much like we do for 3/4 ton and higher trucks. But it has to be a short term fix because we have to do something about our air quality and adding 16 or 17,000,000 diesels as they now are will not help our air one bit.

    On the bright side for diesels with the economy environmental demands will become less important and the green advocates will have less of a voice with our politicians. If history is any indication.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    I doubt if we are going to see many new diesels hitting our shores anytime soon.

    There is a big plus. BMW and MB are building many of the diesels they are now and will be offering this year, in the good old USA. I know the plan is to build the BMW X5 diesel here. That could be my next vehicle. Sadly the Big 3 do not feel it is important to build a full size SUV that will get 30 MPG out on the highway. They are scratched from the list.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    If they can bring a diesel small car over in the price range shifty mentioned then people will more than likely be willing to over look the higher particulent standards

    In California, the diesels have to meet the same NOx and particulate standards as gas-powered cars now, and have for several years. That is why we have seen a lull in the availability of 50-state diesels for almost three years now.

    So there is nothing people need "overlook" when considering the purchase of a diesel. Alas, the rest of what you say rings true: Shifty's $15K diesel is pure fantasy, and with the economy in the doldrums for the next two years or more, the somewhat expensive diesels automakers WILL offer will probably find less buyers than they were hoping for.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • braycabrayca Member Posts: 2
    You're right on the mark that Scion/Toyota could be the first ones on the market with a reasonably priced diesel. The auto manufacturers who are most responsive to the need for more economical and greener vehicles are not headquartered in Detroit.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    I can think up a bunch of "starter" diesels. How about a Mazda 3 hatchback? A Hyundai Elantra? Honda Civic? Ford Focus (wished we get the Euro body, though)? Subie Impreza? Dodge Caliber? Nissan Sentra?

    There's an endless list of cars that would be nice platforms for a smaller turbodiesel engine. It's a matter seeing who's got the foresight and advertising campaign to bring the thing to market and make a profit at it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Why should a diesel engine cost much more to make than a gasoline engine? I mean, how much is a little extra iron?
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Nippon, In Europe where all of these new diesels are supposed to come from the standards for diesel and gas are not the same and I doubt they will be here if we are using their technology. Diesels in Europe using a EUROII standard allowed for Nox in a diesel to be 7.0 in 2005 and for gas it was 2.2 maxing to 5.0. But for European Diesels the Particulate for Gas is zero and diesel is .15. Now if that is the standards we are talking about they are different.

    Looking at the green vehicle guide I don’t see any listings for the VW TDI and if the standards were the same wouldn’t they be on the list? Go to the Green Vehicle guide on the EPA site and type in Small cars and California. Out of all of the cars I found none of them were diesels for 2008.

    Something is different or at least diesels must meet the minimum requirements and not the maximum or cleanest or top in their class. But then if they are willing to relax the requirements maybe diesels will have a future. I just think that if they are looking for green diesels will have a hard time making it.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    Nope, the Europeans had to modify their cars to meet the new California standards, that's why we have had a few years of no new diesels in CA.

    The diesels we are getting now are not just imported straight across the ocean without any modification. And some of the Japanese ones will be wholly new. In fact, from what I understand the new 50-state diesels from several manufacturers will then make their way across the ocean to Europe, rather than making the trip the other way.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    That 60 mpg dream car? It does exist, but VW won't import it. It's the VW Polo BlueMotion - a 3/4 sized version of the GTI. Cheap, fun to drive, and gets silly high gas mileage. 3.8L/100KM. 61.8 combined/average. 3.2L/100km highway - that's over 73 mpg highway! And no hybrid nonsense.

    Rated euro test cycle, converted to U.S. gallons: 48/73. People have reported getting 80mpg (U.S. equivalent) with modest driving on the highway. Nothing heroic mind, you - just a light foot. Oh, and a 12 gallon tank. That's a whopping 880 miles, approximately, per tank. That's Los Angles to San Fransisco and back on one tank of fuel!

    For a typical family, that's 16-20 gallons of diesel per month (avg 60mpg) for a cost of roughly $60-80. Per month. Not per week. In my case, that's roughly $150 in fuel savings alone over my current vehicle. Or about $2000 in fuel saved per year. The car literally pays for itself with the fuel it would save. Or at least the depreciation. :P

    And the kicker - under 20K in Europe(which includes massive VAT and fees - figure 2/3 that much easily in the U.S. (16K Euros for the TDI model, 12K Euros for the basic nothing on it one which they should NOT import - just the TDI)


    It fits four people, is tons faster than the Smart car, has a usable transmission, optional 5 doors, an actual trunk, and stomps it in fuel economy. Basically a VW Yaris 5 door with nearly twice the mpg.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Sounds great but that $18,000 projected price point as a base model with no goodies for Americans sounds a little steep. As you mentioned, if you can buy the Yaris for thousands cheaper at 40 mpg, the saving of $1,500 a year in gas in the Polo (California prices, 15,000 miles a year, Polo at 65 mpg, factoring in .35 cents a gallon higher price for diesel fuel) is still going to take you 2-3 years in the Polo to break even over a Yaris.

    AND you get Toyota's enviable reliability, which VW can only still dream about.

    STILL---with all of that---I think it would sell reasonably well over here. I'd be tempted, even if my "savings" are somewhat illusory. it will FEEL GOOD to get 65 mpg, and then again, who knows what the price of gas will be in 5 years? Could go up to $10/gallon. Why not?
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Still the green vehicle guide is for 2008 and there are no diesels on the list for California. Unless we are willing to back away from our stated CARB goal of the maximum Pzero to zero emissions vehicles how will diesels fit in?

    Just to be fair I went to the green vehicle page for 2008 and picked Idaho and small cars. Still no diesels listed and someone must have bought a TDI in Idaho in 2008 or at least they would have been tested. But they aren't even on the chart. If you check the whole list there are some V-12s in there and they can't be all that green.

    So as you say they have had all these clean diesels here since 2006 and still they don't make the list? I also read somewhere on the government site that they are allowing the filter traps a servicing interval or 80,000 miles. Isn't that a bit less than we have had with gas vehicles? And at the pump the ULSD says it has 15 PPM sulphur particulent to start with. Isn't that higher than the mandated California gas?

    Maybe the standards should be relaxed I don't know but it seems if they would have tried to give us a hybrid that wasn't able to do as well as the non hybrids it would have been rejected. Prius is on the green vehicle list as a mid sized car and still no diesels.

    So even the new diesels may appeal to the fuel conscience consumer it doesn't seem like they will sell to the enviromentaly conscience ones. IMHO
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    And at the pump the ULSD says it has 15 PPM sulphur particulent to start with. Isn't that higher than the mandated California gas?

    Regular unleaded is no more than 30 PPM sulfur. So it is not as clean as diesel. As far as I know the only Toyota's that are PZEV are the small 4 cylinder hybrids. VW has many PZEV models in their 5 cylinder lineup. As does BMW. No diesels as they use a different criteria for testing.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    So as you say they have had all these clean diesels here since 2006 and still they don't make the list?

    Boaz old chum, I'm going to say it one more time and then I'm going to stop trying: NO. NO CLEAN DIESELS HERE SINCE 2006. We have been in a hiatus since 2006. The first 50-state diesels to meet the California emissions standards are the new Jetta TDIs, available for about the last three months, and the E350 Bluetec from Mercedes. They would not be in any guide, list, or book of green achievers. They are brand new.

    There's some interesting diesel stuff at Autoweek today. Speaking of the 65 mpg Polo, here's another model that would make 60+ mpg on diesel right now (65 mpg, in fact), currently for sale in Europe, if Ford had any kind of vision whatsoever - the Fiesta:
    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081014/FREE/810099976/1528/- newsletter01
    Denise says this car could be readiy to come to the U.S. right now, but of course Ford will never lead, it only knows how to follow.

    Then here we have Nissan's X-Trail, their trail-ready version of a mini-XTerra for the home market, making mid-30s for mpg with the diesel:
    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081014/FREE/810099980/1528/- newsletter01
    This engine already meets 50-state diesel standards in this JDM model, yet I have not heard of a SINGLE PLAN to offer any diesel-powered Nissans here in the future; indeed, they have had their hands full just trying to launch a halfways respectable hybrid program.

    Last but not least, we have little ol' Subaru, with its diesel perhaps the longest of all the automakers in the anticipation, still with no tangible plans for the U.S. debut:
    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081014/FREE/810099984/1528/- newsletter01
    Part of their problem, of course, is that right now they are only at the 43-state standard for emissions. They have the same problem everyone has with NOx emissions, and they haven't announced how they will combat this problem, either by taking the Europeans' route of urea injection, or taking Honda's route of a special catalytic converter, or maybe something all-new and unique to them. They say 2010, MAYBE, for a U.S. debut. Yet the Japanese in Tokyo and Nagasaki can drive Foresters and Legacys RIGHT NOW with the diesel. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I am sorry, I thought we were supposed to have had clean diesels in 2006. Wasn't that when the Trucks got the low sulphur diesels? I appoligise.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    2006 is when ULSD was mandated. Some companies were given more time. Not sure which. I think the trucks have been evolving. Not that it makes any difference. Diesel PU trucks do not get smog checks. As of today there are no smog checks in CA for diesel cars or trucks. I was in the muffler shop when a fellow brought in a brand new Dodge Cummins truck. Had the temp tag in the window. He was getting all the smog stuff removed and straight exhaust installed. Many truck owners do that. At least with ULSD you will not see the black soot when they accelerate.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I knew the trucks didn't have to have a smog check. It was one of the more tempting reasons I had for getting my F-250 a few years ago. I have been sorry for selling that truck ever since. But it did seem strange that they were willing to relax the standards in California to allow such a loop hole. CARB my be impotent but they have been able to move the gas standards quite a bit over the years.

    I have nothing against diesel in fact I am pulling for them if they can bring one over as a small hybrid city car. I think 75 MPG should be possible. But in the long run it is still burning oil and I believe for city driving and commuting we need to look for something else. Something renewable and with zero emmisions. That is one of the reasons I like the idea of EVs. But for traveling and towing it is hard to imagine anything better than a diesel. If my Tahoe had a diesel option I might be driving a diesel today. But they have some serious problems to overcome with California's air quality standards. If Arnold and the state keep pushing for P-zero I simply don't see how diesel passenger cars will ever make it. I would rather see one standard set by the federal government for all states and have CARB disbanded.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    You could do like Ahnold. He converted his Hummer one to Hydrogen to keep the Green wienies from castigating him. No problem money cannot overcome.

    I agree that for most city driving an EV would be ideal. I have wanted one myself. Just nothing legal or practical in CA is available. Unless you have money to throw down the toilet and buy a Tesla. I would like to do some traveling around the US. A nice mid sized SUV powered by diesel is what I am looking for. The X5 from BMW is sitting on top right now.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    That muffler shop is beyond stupid for doing something so blatantly illegal. He could be fined mightily for that.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    But if you remember the import car speed shops have been doing things like that for years. In fact most window tinting places tent windows the consumer can get a ticket for. I think in some cases they get passed the law by posting micro chip sized stickers on the modified part that says, "off road use only."
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    This is different. This is a FEDERAL and state offense. A shop could easily have its license yanked + monstrous fines. This isn't a "speed shop" and that's not a race car or competition 4-wheeler. (Plus confiscation of the vehicle I might add). They even busted the POLICE for doing this in California!!
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    That muffler shop is beyond stupid for doing something so blatantly illegal

    It is not illegal to modify your exhaust system. As long as it passes the smog test. And diesels are not tested. The only way that you would be fined is for noise pollution. I can tell you that the 1000s of little POC rice rockets running around here are a lot noisier than the Cummins diesel with straight through exhaust. San Diego is full of custom exhaust shops. I am more concerned about them causing fire than pollution.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    nope, what you say sounds logical but isn't true. You can't remove smog equipment period, whether you pass or exceed what happens out the tailpipe.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaMember Posts: 31,450
    Well when I put a K&N filter on my 98 Chevy Suburban they took off a bunch of stuff. I was going to transfer the license from Alaska to CA, I was told that it would not pass the smog test. I did not install the K&N, a dealer here in San Diego did it. I ended up selling the vehicle. I had all the old intake stuff and put it on Craigslist. A guy bought it and was so happy as he could not get his Chevy 350 to pass smog with a K&N intake system.

    So while what you say may be true. In reality dealers are doing all sorts of things to cars here that will probably fail the smog test. With the diesel PU trucks we may never know. Another good reason to own a diesel in CA. NO smog test every other year.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    yes the no smog rule is appealing. But I betcha that's not long for this world either.
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