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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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No surprise, they like it.
Didn't know their Jetta TDI experienced engine failure, though. Yikes.
Press abuse cars, though.
Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) today reported record September sales of 23,156 for its Mercedes-Benz models, up 7%, delivering a record year-to-date total of 191,618 new vehicles to customers, up 12.7%.
Sales of the company's BlueTEC diesel models were up 28.5% for the year at 11,182 compared to the 8,700 diesels sold over the same period last year.
Looks like Mercedes diesels have helped them regain their title:
YTD Luxury Sales Results
Mercedes: 191,618
BMW: 186,397
Lexus: 170,990
Audi: 100,694
I can't find the VW or BMW diesel sales figures.
323,089 VW units: 2012 MY to S .
..."High-mileage, clean diesel TDI models account for 23.9 percent of
sales in September.".. (8,685 (my sic) /36,339 units)
TDI snippet Bloombergs
The EPA keeps edging the ML350 Bluetec up each year as well.
This is purely a swag, as I have not had any confirmation. It is most likely slightly different chip mapping in favor of higher mpg (C/H) and higher HP @ higher rpm. The higher hp at higher rpm sounds good, but as detailed in this thread it is not as usable as on a gasser as the torque is identical to the 2012 (406 # ft) and at the same rpm
46% is better than Toyota did in September.
Of course, Prius sales were up 103%.
Just imagine the numbers if Toyota did a diesel hybrid.
Pointless and fantasy @ best ! ?
However I am still not sure why Prius types see TDI's as natural and mortal enemies.
WeThey don't want to read about people driving cars that get as good as mileage as their hybrid gets, while offering up a fun driving experience at the same time.I've got a burning question now that I'm looking at the specs on the Ram website.... why in the world is the base weight of a manual trans truck 950 lbs more than an automatic?!
You answered your own question. The manual transmission truck weighs 950 pounds more because it includes the Cummins.
A Ram 2500 Regular Cab 4x4 in base ST trim weighs 5997 pounds with the 5.7L Hemi and automatic trans. The exact same truck weighs 6862 with the Cummins and manual trans, and 6779 with the Cummins and automatic.
Almost half a ton makes considerable difference when it's all at one end of the truck.
kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host
RISING prices of course !!!!! :sick:
sidebar: (local corner store ) RUG prices $4.25 per gal PUG $4.45 ULSD $4.35.
I watched a 60 Mins special on a new Saudi Arabia oil find that literally dwarfs any recent find in Saudi Arabia. At max output, the plant manager was authorized to say 50 years was a most conservative estimate.
The Sheik CEO of ARAMCO in addition said cost to pull out a barrel of this new find is $2.00 a barrel (probably astronomical in comparison to old finds). He was a bit crepted out, as Leslie Stahl noted that USA has cut back. :confuse:
kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host
Cummins ISB6.7 I6 dry weight = 1150 pounds
Emissions equipment = 190 pounds
Total = 1340 pounds
Chrysler 5.7L V8 dry weight = 485 pounds
kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host
Seems like they are ahead of schedule on that point. They're up to 116 days right now. (USA Today)
Something smells like a math error. I am not familiar with the Ram or the Cummins diesel engine, but I am unaware of any engine, diesel or gas that weighs as much as the difference in these figures, let alone the wieght of the 5.7 liter gas PLUS the difference.
Nor am I aware of any manual transmission that weighs nearly 100 lbs more than the corresponding automatic?? That should be the other way around. I strongly suspect that the figures are just an error and/or they are not apples to apples. As in dry curb weight for one, but wet "as tested" wet weight for the other (i.e. including a full tank of gas and the weight of the test driver).
I see. I didn't realize the manual was only available with diesel. That's silly and backwards.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The manual transmission weighs more than the available automatic for a similar reason. The Daimler Commercial G56 6-speed manual is a medium-duty truck transmission with a full cast-iron case. It's intended for rigs like box trucks, not pickups.
kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host
I scanned the "light truck" section, i.e., 2500/3500 et al. It is hard to really understand that with probably some of the worst fuel mileage figures (in most case they are N/A more like if you have to ask you are not serious., they make a HUGE push to be able to use FLEX FUEL. (E85) E85 is known to have MINUS -25% HIT: in addition to ALREADY having poor fuel mileage ???? :sick: :lemon:
I wouldn't conclude that selling 11,182 diesels out of 191,518 vehicles helped Mercedes regain their title. That's only 5.8% of their sales. I don't have figures from 10-20-30 years ago, but I would bet that their percentage was higher in the past, at the peak of their own diesel sales. The 240D, 300D/TD were a much more significant percentage of those model sales than they are today. You can't even get a diesel in the C class and the E-class seems to be much more dominated by gas models than it was 20 years ago - no diesel wagon or any 4-matic variants. We have friends with a 300TD wagon that they milked for 400k miles and 20+ years hoping Mercedes would add a diesel wagon to their new E class. No such luck.
32% of Audi Q7 sales is also very significant. Along with the A3 TDI increasing by 90% over last year. The only thing missing is a good CUV with a 4 cylinder diesel. According to the local VW dealer the Tiguan TDI with 4 cylinder is popular in the EU. Because of the added weight they would have to develop a urea system to pass our tough emissions regs. Now that you can buy the stuff for $5 a gallon. I say go for it. Bring the ML250 Bluetec, GLK250 Bluetec, Q5 TDI and Tiguan TDI.
At Silver Star Motors in Long Island City, Queens, a Mercedes service adviser quoted me a price of $7 a quart for the emissions fluid, or $28 a gallon.
But retailers including AutoZone and Napa Auto Parts offer 2.5-gallon jugs of DEF for around $13, barely $5 a gallon, meaning that some dealers are marking up the fluid more than 600 percent over retail prices.
The do-it-yourselfer, then, could fully refill the Bluetec for less than $40.
Way less than a penny a mile.
The X5 plant was off limits, as they are going through a model changeover and the plant manager didn't want to have to shoot me after I saw what the new X5 is going to look like. But over there, they have X5 M Diesels with the 5.0 liter engines coming off the production line. I would love to get a hold of one of those and kick the butt of some soccer dad driving an ML63. If BMW unleashed their full range of advanced diesels on the US market, it would be a game changer.
I think the fact that BMW has held back because of the perception that the average US consumer is either too ingrained, too ignorant, or both to buy diesels in large quantities is a self fulfilling prophecy. In the last 4 weeks, we have had at least 3-4 friends ride in our X5d. Their eyes get get wide at the acceleration, really wide at hearing about the near 30 mpg highway efficiency and nearly pop out of their sockets when I tell them that the vehicle cost $1,500 LESS than the X5 3.5i gas model (thanks to the $4,500 eco credit). BMW finally came out with a bit of a marketing campaign for the X5d last summer, but even the salespeople I dealt with were poor at marketing the diesel over the gas, in my opinion. I probably wouldn't win any awards from BMW, but if I owned a dealer franchise, I'd make everyone that wanted a X5 3.5i instead of the X5d sign a waiver that I was not responsible for their stupidity and any future buyers remorse. And if I could acquire the exclusive sales rights to X3 2.0d and 3.0d's in the US, I'd turn the deal into something that would make Mitt Romney and Bain Capital envious.
I like that. It amazes me how many people just poo poo diesels without ever driving one. To drive one is to love them. I loved driving my Passat TDI. I can say without a second thought. I will never buy another gas vehicle. The variation you get in gasoline is a big factor. CA gas is so screwed up now I cannot get over 14 MPG with my Sequoia. I feel like I won the lottery when I get a tank of gas yielding 17 MPG with my Nissan Frontier. The old LS400 is pretty consistent at 17 with Premium.
I think we get what does not sell well in the EU. Though I would imagine in the case of the BMW diesels exported it is all about not wanting to waste money on emissions development. An X3 2.0D would be a great CUV. I live very close to a very wealthy tribe of Indians. They far and away like the X5 & X3s over any other SUV. In fact BMW is the only luxury dealer in East County, Unless you consider Lexus luxury. :sick:
To make a long story short, the fact that BMW has a "manufacturing" presence on US soil has been put through the meat and sausage making process of American and world politics/economics. The US gets its balance of payments tipped in its favor, locals get 1000 jobs (I do NOT know the exact and potential numbers) Congress and state folks get their spheres of influence and the world gets the diesel cars it wants and needs and BMW has the marketing option of saying US made, and marketing specific models in the US. The EPA can keep its anti diesel attitudes as long as they can limit the number and percentage of diesels BMW lets onto the US markets. Arguably it is a VERY low percentage being as how 100% of those lines (and diesels) are manufactured on US soil. It truly defies logistical logic. I have for sure left out a lot of would be participants/reasons.
To keep on the diesel point, 503 2012 X5 35 D's are left listed on the US inventory.
Keep in mind VW did a modified version in that the Amercian Passat has its own separate US factory as part of its US expansion visions (800 to 850 k units are its envisioned capacities)
Along the same lines the "dope deal" was long ago made with Toyota (Lexus) A CR representative when interview on a CNBC special about BMW went on record saying the Lexus (among other luxo brands is probably one of the most reliable and durable of Japanese oems. This was on the delicate issue of whether or not reliability and durability were ENGINEERED out. (BMW is know for "passionate German Engineering") NOT... obviously.!!?? This is borne out anecdotally by Gagrices 20+ year old LS 400. I think long ago they were economically disincentivized from doing a mainstay diesel, which continues to this day. I know that a Lexus diesel would be a stellar competitor to anything BMW/MB etc puts out.
Funny thing, the diesel S has mandatory 4matic, yet it isn't in the wagon. I don't get it.
I will consider that a small victory, having opened your mind a bit. :shades:
I am still not sure why Prius types see TDI's as natural and mortal enemies
I don't see it that way, and to be honest I've observed more hostility coming from the other side.
Cycles go up and down but this should be their upswing - when their 2 best selling models are fresh.
Lots of golf tournaments around here and they've also had a ton of Benzes there, sold at a discount. IIRC there were 700+ last time. :surprise:
Add to that more diesels.
They should win the lux sales crown easily this year.
But I think Steve (one of the hosts) is on to something. If Prius handled @ or better , had the longevity bits of a TDI and price points, better mpg, anyone should give it serious consideration.
Again it is the same issue with what I have been saying with diesels: can't consider it if it is NOT on the market.
We should see Chevy diesels soon, maybe Mazda next, then Honda???
You're right about too few choices.
Again keep in mind that ANY to all these oems regardless of where they are in the food chain ALREADY have diesel offerings. I am not sure why you dance around the HUGE elephant (anti diesel sentiment as reflected in legislative regulatory and enforcement entities) in the room, so to speak.
So my guess here, there are probably some MB diesels in whatever model in bound and will sell for probably premiums over premium. One would have to special order or get one later for a special order that might have fallen through.
It is probably not unlike Porsche, with all the options a Porsche diesel has: I am not sure what has to be put on at the over seas factory and what options can be dealer installed. Be that as it may there are 215 in the inventory.
Porsche's assembly process is pretty unique, and very customizable, though. Little robotic carts deliver parts for individual cars. I think it was Factory Made or some show like that. Pretty neat.
I'm sure every spoiled high school girl in my zip code will get one of these.
Long lines at the only diesel station @ Westlake.
Jetta hybrid will cost $2k more than the TDI. That's nuts!
I thought they'd be about the same, if anything the TDI costlier.
They stuck the 1.4TFSI in there, though, that can't be cheap.
A 2013 base 2.slow is $15,545. Of course you get the world's cheapest interior and a twist beam for a rear axle, but ten grand buys a lot of gas.
So now VW is marketnig a 2.slow, 2.5 5 cylinder, 1.4TFSI hybrid, TDI, and 2.0T engine with the same car?
Talk about trying to be all things to all people....
I think that it has been that way for a VERY long time.
..."It has three cars in the top 10 list of best-selling cars of all time compiled by the website 24/7 Wall St: the Volkswagen Golf, the Volkswagen Beetle, and the Volkswagen Passat. With these three cars, Volkswagen has the most cars of any automobile manufacturer in the list that are still being manufactured.[1]"...
I personally have had two of the three VW cars on the top 10 best selling cars of all time. (Beetle Golf/Rabbit)
VW Wiki
Truth is if I were starting fresh, I would seriously consider getting the Passat TDI (the third VW best selling cars of all time.) It has to be impressive that a H EPA rated car 43 mpg can post 84+ mpg.
It has long been known and recently refined so that different platforms have a host of variants. I did a past post about that.
It is really too bad the US markets really restrict diesel offerings, aka oppressive costs to entry. I think a perfect combination would probably be a Lexus TDI. For the most part that has been @ least a 27 year old pipe dream. Realities are actually much better !! That is why the switch to diesel VW's.
Be careful what you wish for. Looks like four gas choices and two diesel choices at the pic on this Toytown Germany forum. "Benzin" (91 octane) is around too I think.
I don't know what Ultimate Diesel is.
Ouch to diesel prices in your market. Sixty cents higher than premium is insane. Here in the DC area, diesel is pretty consistently less than premium, at least at the Shell or BP stations that actually sell diesel. At a high priced Shell dealership in DC, diesel is running 10 cents higher than regular, 40 cents LESS than premium. Out in the lower priced suburbs/exurbs, diesel is usually priced between mid-grade and premium. I believe there was a time last year that diesel prices had a temporary jump relative to premium (supply constraint?), but that seems to be past history now.
Here's our math: The X5d starts $1,500 ahead of the X5 3.5i on price. My wife has driven 320 city miles since last fill up and still has 1/4+ tank left. Computer is showing 18.5 mpg on this tank. Our 2005 MDX could not make it more than 250-270 miles on a tank in this same kind of heavy city driving. Barely 13 mpg. Diesel is 40%+ better. The highway comparison is 29-30 mpg vs. 22-23 mpg; or 30%+ better. These are real world, not EPA. Even assuming the X5 3.5i gas is 10-15% better in real world than our old MDX, we are still way ahead with the X5d. Especially given that in our area, diesel is usually 10-15+ cents less than premium..
In the highly technical business world I am in, this is referred to as a "no-brainer".
Anyone can run their own (I have for a while been calling it) "corner store" numbers. Last night filled @ $4.35 RUG/ $4.59 PUG/ $4.35 ULSD,
BUT using your numbers , the range per mile driven is between:
ULSD = .15 cents - .145 cents
vs
PUG = .2086 cents-.19957 cents
PUG is also 37.63% more per mile driven.
So say over 100,000 miles ULSD costs $15,000. 37.63% more will be $20,860 or $5,860.
That 84mpg came with a little cheating, they admitted to going 10 under the speed limit.
In a past post I even suggested that it would be interesting (to me personally) what a Prius would do under the SAME methodology. Now I realize that not only does a Prius have a smaller fuel tank but I have read is variable. In that case then of course they can run it out to get a fair and square duplication of conditions on the mpg side, or some other agreed upon method of equalization. It is probably obvious that an 11.9 gal tank will yield less RANGE (same 84 mpg + rate) than an 18.5 gal tank.
What sold me on range was my current minivan, which easily goes 400 miles on a tank, while my other car turns on the low fuel light before 300.
Not only did you say (to be more technically correct that is what you posted) it, I quoted the part where you clearly posted "CHEATING" (all caps my sic) .
Now I wouldn't mind having the 26.4 gal tank in the 2003 Jetta TDI and get what I got the last fill 52+ mpg. :shades: 26 gal consumption with .4 gal left to find a ULSD station would post 1,352 miles. Even as this is a pipe dream I chickended out and filled @ 600 miles for an 11. 3 fill. Gee, what a worry wart
While I was in the normal commute range, I was not commuting. I just kept it under 90 mph.