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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • Steve EliasSteve Elias Posts: 2,187
    habster, thanks for the arithmetic stuff. let's continue to defer to your daughter or her classmates to be the arbiters of how to calculate a percentage increase from A to B vs how to calculate the (different percentage) decrease from B to A, and how those two percentages are always different, as long as B != A.

    the math also tells us that the tesla is useless with regard to one of your key criteria. Seems like you are buying one for something other than functionality reasons, which does sound sort of fun, but also may be likely to induce a huge case of BUYERS REMORSE! Seems to me that your functional-criteria leave only one option for an electric car: the Chevy Volt. So you can buy one now at ~half or ~1/3 the cost of a tesla. Or you can wait and buy similar technology from another manufacturer in a few years after all the other electric car manufacturers adopt the Volt design in order to get "infinite range" USA consumers like us demand!

    Ampere/Volt is the only real "alternative" car that really gets me excited, aside from diesels. I wish I could get excited about the tesla or any electric car with no ability to charge itself via petroleum fuel. Seeing a couple Fiskers on local roads did get me "interested" at least. Nifty styling on those. I don't think I've seen a single tesla locally here in new england. And zero Cayenne Diesels so far.. :|
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    If I had bought that ML350 Bluetec the last time I had the urge, I would be sitting good right now with our out of control gas prices. RUG at Costco is $4.63. I can buy diesel all over the county at $4.25 a gallon. News said some Costco stations are out of gas.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    I always get a chuckle when the US "AVERAGE" fuel prices are published, i.e., ULSD @ $4.25 per gal. While I am at it CA should drop the taxation differential (.105 cents)

    On any given snap shot/ sample (in my case 10/10 times), the majority of the time I can neither find it (the unicorn AVERAGE PRICE) , nor prices that comes UNDER it. Indeed I wish I could pay the AVERAGE price and let the folks who use that as the justification: "....well its aint so BAD", pay the difference. ;)

    So my corner store price @ RUG $ 4.63 /PUG $4.83/ ULSD $4.39 (3.3% MORE)

    The dropping of the (diesel) tax differential would put that @ $4.29 cents for ULSD. STILL more !? Oh well I did say 10/10 times didn't I, and there are times when I am given to flights of fancy :sick: ;)
  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    People buy cars for different reasons, the Tesla happens to be IMHO one of the sexiest cars on the road, if I was in the market for a new car I would be seriously looking at one. I have no commute to work (I do not work from home, however, I'm on the road 80% of the time) so range it not a big issue for me. Price, 75K for a sedan, about right since the base MB 350 Blue Tec is 94K base. I'm sure the new Audi A8 with the TDI engine will be more than 75K.

    The Base Tesla range is roughly 140 miles, if you have a commute that is roughly 100 miles, then the Tesla my not be for you. But if your work has charging stations then allowing your car to charge for the time at work would allow you extra miles to run an errand or two.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    I believe if you go back see what I wrote, I did say that the Diesel fuel was not ULSD... Gas back then was cheaper too.

    From reading peoples posting, it appears that most of you are highly educated, but you all continue to beat the dead horse. Why are gas prices and diesel do high? Why are oil companies making record profits? If more oil is being found in the US, then the "shipping" cost can't be as high as it is being shipped half way around the world. Production cost can't be the reason. could be because of free enterprise, could it be people will pay regardless of how high it becomes??
  • Steve EliasSteve Elias Posts: 2,187
    yes, flightnurse, the reasons for the cost of fuel could be related to those things you mentioned.

    seems like the expired-horse you mention continues to rejuvenate/reanimate/respawn every time fuel prices rise:
    because as fuel prices increase, the cost savings with diesel also increase.

    so my thoughts lately are parallel to gagrice's even though i drive a meager 30k miles per year lately... "woulda/could/shoulda bought a diesel",

    arithmetically i do grant 34 mpg with gas-powered chevy cruze is actually "good enough mpg". so there's no really compelling reason to go diesel at this time for myself... unless you count psychology/consumerism.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    You have to remember oil is traded on the World market. It may be here and cheaper to ship. At the refineries it gets mixed with oil from Mexico, Canada and the Middle East. That means where it is produced has very little to do with the cost to produce. Saudi oil costs about $2 per barrel to produce. They still charge the OPEC basket price. You are lucky we are not in Norway where they have more oil than they use. Yet the highest priced gas in Europe.

    My point about diesel was more availability along with close to double the miles in a gallon. Every crisis, it is gas that is in short supply and most times diesel is readily available.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    ..."Saudi oil costs about $2 per barrel to produce. They still charge the OPEC basket price. "...

    The good news is that price of a barrel of oil is falling AND a LOT !!! ;) :surprise: :shades:

    Side bar: In the all is well cruising at 40,000 feet scale of things, peel me a grape and let the games begin, while Rome is burning,.... a nit.

    HOWEVER and

    Indeed, I (quoted) got that cost from a CBS 60 mins program hosted by Leslie Stahl. It was quoted from the (then) current CEO of ARAMCO (turn SA Oil Minister) for the cost of a (ONE AND) BRAND new logistical costs from quite possibly the BIGGEST processing facilities and JUST (2008) built in Saudi Arabia today !!!

    In the course of the conversation, it was mentioned that this (nit) processing capacity has been KNOWN ( to ARAMCO?) INXS of 45 years (biblical generation is 40 years) !!!! It was just (said more sophisticatedly) out in the boonies (implied: insignificant and a PITA to bring online) !!???

    So in the 60 mins program's quest to make the size and scale of this find and logistical systems more real and graphic to its American audience, (the relative costs ( LESS than $2.00) to process a barrel of oil) it BEGS the question of how much cheaper than $2.00 cost to process it was/is/ remains for the logistical process for older more established sources !!!!!!! ??????

    The scale and scope literally is STAGGERING and boggles the mind.

    Fuel Bloomberg Spot Prices

    Even using these superlatives, just their JIT inventory management assets (like the crude oil storage tanks) are literally the BIGGEST in the world and for a relatively insignificant oil assets !!!!!!

    CBS
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    ..."seems like the expired-horse you mention continues to rejuvenate/reanimate/respawn every time fuel prices rise:
    because as fuel prices increase, the cost savings with diesel also increase. "...

    Indeed one reason is the same circular incorrect and at times illogical reasoning that keeps 95% of the population buying gassers is still in operation.

    But like I have maintained, why should someone consume less when they can consume more AND pay more for the effort !? :shades: Free choice really keeps the world spinning !! (figuratively)

    So really I am fine with attitudes like: " I won't buy a diesel because diesel fuel is 10 cents to xxx a gal more." If folks dont want to do or believe the math (cost per mile drive fuel) I am also fine with that.

    So really, I have not much interest in seeing the % of diesel cars increase from gassers. I do however bemoan the lack of choice and options. The answer is really quite simple enough. Let the government stop administering every aspect of life. If I want a diesel car I should be able to get it in the US. They do already meet European standards !!

    The emphasis on more units and percentages is really just a vague attempt at indulging in the entertainment fantasy of lowering the cost of ownership and free markets.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited October 2012
    You must be looking at the world through GM subsidized rose colored glasses to see ANY similarities between the Volt and Tesla. The volt doesn't have the electric range to make it much more than halfway around the DC beltway. So it's nothing but a hybrid with all of the fun of maintaining a EV AND an internal combustion engine.

    Yes, at about $38k vs $53k it's $15k cheaper than the base Tesla, which, last time I checked is 28.3% less, not 1/2 as much, professor. But so the hell what? A Chevy Cruze is 70% less than a BMW 535. That's essentially the class of cars you are trying to compare. Cranking up the Tesla to the 85 kw performance edition puts it into Panamera Turbo territory in performance. You are trying to compare apples and orange Cointreau

    I wish GM well with the Volt and hope they can stop the hemmoraging of financial losses. But they are going to have to do it without my help. If you want to pitch in, be my guest.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    edited October 2012
    GM will not make any money on the Volt for the foreseeable future. They lose money on every one and we lose even more on every one. I say "WE" meaning those of US in the 53% that are paying the bills. So far the EV Tax credit has helped Japan and Korea a lot more than the USA.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    Though I do not know this, I would swag that doing the "VOLT" was probably one of many conditions of the GM bail out ( part of the TARP $700 B known committed monies) . GM Management and GM Union Labor and stock market folks can easily see the stock will remain underwater, again for the foreseeable future and are lobbying to " let" the government take its (GM management, labor AND sucked in investors (widows and orphans, etc, and tax payer's) ownership losses. CN gov also got sucked in for $10 B. or 12% ownership. It is almost funny to hear the gov appointed CEO say the gov ownership is "too distracting". SELL ! Sell. SELL?

    The Fed needs app 54 per share to break even. Accordingly ( to when the article was written) GM stock is @ app $25. :blush: :lemon: :sick:

    I am sure that those in the position to know probably knew that it took Toyota a LONG time to recover from the sunk, development, starting R & D and operating costs of the Prius HYBRID.

    $40,000 for a Volt plus power installation costs and still a money losing proposition ?????? Indeed GM might have been FORCED into selling the ( Cruze- passenger car diesel) TDI. Simply, VW, et al. has demonstrated and for more than a few years that selling diesel CARS are PROFITABLE. Imagine that! What a concept ! They certainly know this from the so called" LIGHT" truck turbo diesel markets despite getting even get special dispensation for emissions for this segment.

    It is also apparent that the lessons of the electrical power outage was lost on the enviro cons advocating massive dependence on ELECTRICAL power, which caused the current fuel price debacle. .
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    The volt will soon have a competitor. The New Honda Accord Hybrid has a similar setup. It has a 2.0 liter engine that charges a battery that runs the engine. It can also drive the wheels directly at highway speeds. Thirdly it is a plug in so you can run battery only.

    http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/honda/2014-honda-accord-plugin-hybrid-revi- ew-2209.html
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    The EVs and Plugins will all die if the Feds pull the $7500 gimme on them. May be why Toyota decided to can their EV. The Plugin Prius has such a short EV range it is almost worthless without some incentives.

    If you have the money to buy a Tesla or Fisker, it is purely a look at me purchase. Has nothing to do with saving the environment. Will Tesla survive?

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/09/Tesla-has-to-repay-- US-loan-faster-as-production-lags-70001189/tesla-federal-loan-model-s/70001189/1- #.UHIUW67Wqh0
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    that I am using diesel. Sometimes the truth inadvertently leaks out.

    ..."Brown's order will allow retailers to begin selling winter-blend gasoline, which is more plentiful and easier to make but emits more polluting vapors, ahead of the traditional October 31 transition date."...

    It would appear the article CLEARLY is saying 10-15% ethanol fuel is even dirtier than the 30 to 90 ppm sulfur NON winter fuel !!! It even gets way less mpg than the "CLEANER" stuff. :mad:

    link title

    Another is Senator Diane Feinstein evidently did not get the Obama party line FYI about the goal of European fuel pricing in the US ($ 10.00 US per gal) , it being less than $5.00 per gal

    ..."Feinstein noted that California commuters already faced the highest gas prices and the longest commutes in the country.
    "Paying hundreds of dollars to fill your tank every time you go to the pump is untenable, particularly because it does not appear the price spike and supply disruption are in any way related to supply and demand," she added."...

    When you put it together with the SA oil minister's 60 mins interview, a bit concerned about a MINUS 1 M barrels of US oil less consumption, you got to say that Obama's goal of ever rising fuel prices seems to work @ less than 5 per gal from 1.85 during the last part of the BUSH administration. Here's to 4 more years for $10.00 per gal fuel ?????????? This is proof positive Obama does NOT want to tax the 47%? :sick: :lemon:
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    The failure of the FTC can be dumped directly on the administration. Jon Leibowitz is part of Obama's cabinet. Just another example of a totally inept administration. So why didn't Boxer call Barry and ask Wassup???

    If the price drops in the next couple days, those that panicked will be mad at themselves. I am waiting till RUG is back to $3.95, the price when I last filled up.

    When will the EPA slap CARB around and standardize fuel for the whole USA. It is ridiculous that CA has their own designer blends of gas. Maybe this fiasco will get the legislators to make some noise.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    This morning the WSJ had an editorial on the "boutique" CA fuel (debacle).

    Not that I think the medias coverage is misleading, but I think it is interesting to note that not only is the so called "winter fuel" dirtier, it has less energy content. This of course directly and indirectly leads to even worse fuel economy (up to MINUS-20%). So again if one does the cost per mile driven: FUEL calculation, which is the most likely to occur, less or MORE cost?? Additionally it (that portion)is burnt unmitigated. Emissions controls are not designed to control/mitigate ethanol emissions. I guess on the high seas of misdirection, we all forgot to note that this fuel normally costs more !! So with a more logical look at things if fuel is 10 to 15 cents cheaper and gets up to 20% less mpg, well I guess the powers that be are hoping we all DO NOT do the math.

    Again the governor has gone on record as saying he was directing its "earlier" used due to it being "CHEAPER".
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2012
    That's what happens too when you tie yourself to one fuel (oil) and one industry. Exxon blows a fuse and your prices go through the roof.

    Instead of a 50/50 diesel/gasoline mix, more better to have LNG, propane, plug-in, compressed air, and biogas options, not to mention continuing to research fuel cells and hydrogen and making mass transit work.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Not sure what you are suggesting - that the industry ditch traditional gasoline/diesel engine cars and go to flex fuel vehicles that can run on LNG, gas, or propane at the flip of a switch. Nice idea, but just a little impractical.

    The long term solution is EV with an electric generating system based primarily upon nuclear (with hydro and wind where it makes sense) such that we aren't burning any fossil fuel to generate electricity.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    As even you would agree that is a 40,000 ft cruising response with a couple of drinks in hand. The real world is more like close to the deck, gut wrenching, throwing up, jinking.

    It has literally taken 30+ years to get 5% diesels with 50% being so called light but really LARGE trucks (down from 75%) It is still being fought against tooth and nail (well economically, legislatively and regulatorially, anyway)

    Hybrids (Prius et all) still rely on boutique fuels. Hybrids offer 20% advantage. Diesels offer 30 to 50% advantages. Hybrids make LESS economic sense if you look at the math. It is hard to cut dependence on RUG to PUG if you still use RUG to PUG. This should be more than obvious. Then to elevate it to boutique status is just plain DUMB.

    Not to burst the bubble but did ALL those southern SO CA VOLT/Tesla owners causee the grid to go down? Were they able to get power when the power went out !!?? I didnt know they were such MASSIVE USERS ?? ;) Zukes alive what will they have to do with the grid when 2013 MY Volts come out? ;)

    So if the electrical power is out how much plug in juice can you get? To boot the electrical cost per mile driven is still higher than RUG/PUG.

    At the risk of repeating myself when you exceed percentages of electrical baseline consumption, you are penalized. My penalty is @ .296 cents. This is not including enormous tax percentages. In addition the highway fund has not fully figured out how to get the same taxations that RUG/PUG fuels drop into the coffers, so you can expect the plug in sources to go up over up already. If I add a plug in, I start off @ 296 cents per KWH, not to mention taking 6 to 10 hours of down time.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    Indeed not even PG & E does that !! Pacific Gas and Electric. Guess what? They are the nat gas and electrical (they do have a limited number of nukes also, solar and wind I think they vendor out) PROVIDERS !!! I am not sure what that tells Steve, but I know what it tells me.

    I had some time to talk to a PGE responder (recently .... circa 2012) and casually asked him what fueled his company vehicle used to get to my location. He didn't hesitate: RUG. End of discussion. What did you all expect me to do, do a Hare Krishna on hare krishna? ;) :sick:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Well, we have some flex fuel vehicles now. I'm thinking more in terms of viable alternatives to just gas or diesel. Like the port trucks switching to CNG. More alternatives could lessen the price shocks when a fuel price blips because of a weather event, hostilities, or production breakdown.

    If 95% of us were driving diesel passenger cars, a refinery meltdown will still result in a price shock.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Propane/RUG options have been around a long time. A friend has Propane tanks in the bed of his PU truck. Starts on RUG and switches to propane. Depending on the cost of Propane.

    I don't think EV will be practical any sooner than Hydrogen. Hydrogen at this time is made from Natural Gas. Most is used to make fertilizer for, you guessed it. Growing corn for ethanol. What a mess the greenies have made.

    Hydro electric is going away as dams cause more problems than they solve. I like Nukes. But most people do not. Wind and solar have serious issues. CA has expanded their electric generation to mostly Natural Gas.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    Evidently this CA state "boutique" fuel debacle is getting LOADS of press. The Auto Club AAA pegs the average price @ $4.66 per gal RUG. While those fuel consumers iinterviewed on cable and local TV's, were not asked political affiliation, it seems most are frustrated to fed up, angry and scared, etc.

    Funny and tragic how the EPA et al were able to put CA fuel in "BOUTIQUE STATUS" (aka monolithic specialty product with no alternative refinery sources) and are now flat footed when no one else (the other 49 states refinery capacities) can be an alternative vendor.

    Senator Feinstein is calling for the authorities to "round up the usual suspects" to use a quote from an old Bogart movie. Casablanca Claude Rains

    But perhaps more on nexus is the 59 sec to 1:22 min of 8:01

    link title
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 399
    From what I understand of the US gasoline market ( at least i read it somepoint in the last ten years, forgive me if it has changed now ) is that it is just not California that has it own fuel standards but every county can set its own standards for fuel additives etc, which is why pricing can vary so much from one area of a state to another for no apparent reason. It would definately make more sense for this to be regulated nationally so that the supply ca be regulated better ( I.e. a refinery breaks in California then fuel from say Texas can be shipped to them with only slight price adjustments and no shortages to run prices up). Even if the whole country adapted the California fuel the country would be better off with supply ( maybe not milage though...). Also the oil companies need to stop closing refineries to the point that if one breaks down that there is a fuel shortage and prices go up, they need to invest some of their profits into updating the old refineries and building some new ones, I know no one wants one in their back yard, but they need to be built somewhere, and everyone seems to enjoy the products produced by them so some new ones are needed before the system breaks down completely.
    All just MHO of course.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    A lot of refineries are their own entities.

    Even though this sounds weird, no one is willing to allow opening new state of the art refineries. To wit there has not been a new US refinery built in over 35 years, almost one biblical generation. On the flip side, most to all are relieved when one is closed.

    Chevron (Benecia/Martinez, CA) the one that just had that fire and malfunction not too many years ago got enjoined from making a $ 2 B upgrade to the same facility they now say is ... problematic. So then when something "breaks down" or wears out, everybody wants to go through the standard hand wringing procedures, with predictable results, aka nothing to cover up.
  • Steve EliasSteve Elias Posts: 2,187
    edited October 2012
    nice. it figures that Honda would give us the next infinite-range modern electric (+hybrid) leveraging a design similar to (better than?!) GM/Volt/Ampere.

    The petroleum-engine-charges-batteries approach will supplant the obsolete electric-only design of the limited-range electrics such as Tesla. If you buy an all-electric tesla or fisker, it should be an obsolete/collector car within 5 years, eh? :| :shades: (Think of it as a good thing, like a delorean.)

    Diesels run especially super efficiently at certain/low rpms, eh? What if a Volt-like electric car were available with diesel engine instead of gas...

    Seems like it might be overkill efficiency but it sure would be fun to try a VOLT DIESEL . Sign me up on the waiting/interest list for one.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2012
    I don't know why it sounds weird. Not many people want to live next door to an industrial site. A chemical plant/refinery would be among the worst neighbors you could have, and their influence isn't limited to just their site. Even a "clean" industry like a data center causes heartburn, especially when the power goes down and the diesel generators kick in. (NY Times)
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 399
    It is basically the same situation up here, the oil companies close a lot of their refineries to the point that they are running at capacity to meet the requirements of the market ( I know it is probably better for them to run at full capacity, but there does need to be some extra capacity for emergencies) and then you still hear about the possibilities of other refineries closing. I know the companies need to make a profit, but they also need to be able to meet demand for their product. And yes no one wants them to build new or increase capacity of old refineries, but they are more than willing to complain when a problem at a refinery leads to high prices/ and or shortages ( not that the oil companies seem to really want to do something about the lack of capacity as they can charge more for their products). At this point I think it is the refineries that are the bottleneck causing the bottleneck of supply. Of course that doesn't mean that prices would be lower with more refineries, the oil companies ( and of course Goverments with % based taxes) like the higher prices due to better profits, as can be seen when there is news that decreases supply the prices go up, and when there is news that increases supply prices go down but rarely to the level they were before the prices went up, even when the costs have gone below that point.
    It is not something that we as consumers have a lot of power over, except to keep buying more efficient cars when we buy a new one ( but nobody should be buying a new car just for. Fuel efficency if they can't afford it). And even then that just lessens the blow of high fuel prices not erase it, and of course the prices go up when we use less ( just like water rates in cities, the prices go up as you use less since the fixed costs are the same and need to be paid regardless, same with electricity etc, the consumer never sees the full benefits of the conservation).
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    Actually the history of industrial sites in the country shows that to be TOTALLY accurate; that at least those cities that spring up next to now dwindling refineries.

    Silicon Valley is replete with examples (industrial, etc. sites). Indeed the whole place is example after example after example. Most to all of the area used to be orchards and farmlands. Part of the reason for CA being called the land of fruits and nuts is not for sexual preferences and mental disorders.

    SIDEBAR: ironically, there is a (HUGE) silicon valley company (most would recognized the name) that actually took over the "sprawling" facility that actually used to BE a mental facility!

    The area even has (now going defunct) salt ponds (started as Leslie, now Cargil?) , aka the phase SALT of the earth is a morph on salt mines and ponds. Not too long ago if you had a freezer or just like to pick out sides of beef, you could literally go down to a local (silicon valley) slaughter house and get the order fulfilled. Longer story here but I think all get the drift.

    Probably more on nexus with passenger cars is a recently closed passenger car and light (really light truck) aka NUMMI factory. They (Toyota side) actually made cars and trucks that were actually CONSUMED in CA. Some folks might have heard of the Toyota Corolla, Tacoma, etc ? If you listened to the auto unions, working there was literally almost like working for a Biden slave factory or coming over in a New Englander slave ship. (yes a bit of election hyperbole) Funny what happens when Toyota and GM decides to close the place down for not only was it not profitable everybody was trying to literally regulate it to death. When it actually died, they were literally all panicked and surprised that it actually did die.

    So interestingly enough with RUG @ 4.63 from the less than $1.85 when the current administration took off, the price of fuel as gone up 150% in almost 4 years, UP almost 38% per year !!! That is actually a pretty good job at getting the prices UP !!!! It is especially good in light of the the drop off in fuel consumption. Even Saudi Arabia is concerned. But in truth it is almost a no brainer. To get the fuel prices even higher all they need do is to close another (marginally profitable) refinery. I bet they are hard at work, making it so ? :sick: :shades: :lemon: After all, the Obama stated goal always has been European fuel pricing ($10.00 US per gal)

    Now I do not find $10.00 gas really freaky. No, I am not George Clooney Beyonce or JayZ, etc. (for a .037 cent per mile driven cost) , all we need are cars that get 270 miles per gal !! ;)

    Sidebar: why .037 cents per mile driven? At the start of the current admin diesel fuel was 1.85 per gal. With a 50 mpg 2003 Jetta TDI that = .037 cents per mile driven. And you thought I was being unreasonable? ;) :surprise: :shades:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    there is a (HUGE) silicon valley company (most would recognized the name) that actually took over the "sprawling" facility that actually used to BE a mental facility!

    lol, perfect. And Ellison running the place now fits too. :)
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Ellison running the place now fits too

    And expanding. Just bought the whole Island of Lanai.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    Yes and the enviro cons that have driven out old church mice into the boonies dont want anyone to drill in the boonies because the church mice who were driven out of the churches being perfectly happy in church have set up residence right on the drilling and refinery lands ! ;)

    Actually they have done that to perfection in Yosemite ! It is just that those mice have Hunta Virus. ;) :blush:
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2012
    Even funnier is how everyone becomes an enviro con when a factory or fracker announces they are locating in their neighborhood or on their deer camp or next to their fishing stream or state park.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    The urban scenarios that crack me up are when a (example) NATURAL Mountain Lion or Bobcat goes to a city/suburb and eats Muffins (the urban FAT cat, no I am not talking about those folks at Goldman Sachs). Would you like a latte with that? There is an immediate cry to KILL THE BEAST !!!!!! (after writing their CONGRESSMEN)

    Not that anybody cares, I say let em eat a bakers dozen or so ;)

    Look MA, anybody can be an urban enviro con.

    It might foster some understanding why ranchers or farmers with livestock tend to be a bit upset when wolves are reintroduced by those same type enviro cons.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited October 2012
    We need a few more packs around here. Can't drive 10 miles without seeing a couple of deer on the shoulder. It's getting so I wish I was driving one of those 10,000 pound duallys with a cowcatcher on the front. You know....

    a diesel.

    Prices in TX are likely going up now:

    Fire hits diesel hydrotreater at Exxon Baytown refinery (Reuters)

    "A hydrotreater is not a main production unit at a refinery. The loss of a diesel hydrotreater could lead to reduced diesel production, but would not impact wide-scale plant operations."
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    edited October 2012
    I was very lucky to be driving a 3/4 ton 4X4 when I hit that big buck in Sun Valley. It was not drivable after that. What would have been the result in a Prius or CorVic? It could be worse. You could live in NYC where people cannot walk their dog without risk of being attacked by Racoons. I see an opportunity for someone to open a new restaurant selling [non-permissible content removed] Burgers. I ate raccoon in Mexico and it tasted like duck.

    New Yorkers petrified as hundreds of 'hissing' raccoons invade the city

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214703/New-Yorkers-petrified-hundreds-h- - issing-raccoons-invade-city.html
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    Hahaha; I can't keep up with this thread! The PFD is based on 50% of the average investment returns over the three previous fiscal years (in this case, FY09-11), less various administrative fees, and divided by the # of qualified filers.

    It is what it is. The only thing the government owes me is accountability; anything else is cake.

    I bought my heating oil for the winter back in July and paid $3.53/gallon for 750 gallons.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    Too funny !!!

    Perhaps not so funny, raccoons carry and transmit RABIES.

    A coincidence? WiKi says WOLVES and BOBCATS are natural predators of .... raccoons !!!! :surprise:
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    That's an impressive car! Sad thing about the 19" wheel option, though, is that the 21" has a gorgeous design, whereas the 19", a much more practical wheel size in my opinion, is just a ho-hum off-the-shelf design. That certainly doesn't encourage one to choose it!

    Were it in the cards, I would go for the 85kW unit. Better fun factor, MUCH better range. If the Supercharger vision comes to fruition, one might even be able to take it on (well-planned!) trips. ;)
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    Oh, heck ya! The best way to deal with mammal pests is to eat them! :P

    If we had issues with moose around here like Steve's area has with deer, I'd have my bow hanging next to the front door and a 25 cu ft chest freezer in the garage. You know, just in case. ;)
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Anchorage is awash in moose. I would guess FBKs has their share of moose and caribou? I would hate to hit a moose with anything smaller than a 1 ton PU truck. They do serious damage to a car. The excess animals should be harvested for the homeless.

    The new Mazda 6 wagon should be something you would like. IF it ever gets to our 3rd World Corn Republic:

    The SKYACTIV-D 2.2 diesel engine is available in either Standard Power or High Power versions. Both engine types comply with Europe's Euro 6 emissions standards.

    image
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Perhaps not so funny, raccoons carry and transmit RABIES.

    OK, I'm not going to go Animal Channel on you, but try not to pick on raccoons. Every mammal is capable of carrying and transmitting rabies including your neighborhood squirrel, bat, fox, skunk, domestic dog, domestic cat......your spouse...

    Speaking of which, our neighbor's highly domesticated wife went nuts a couple of weeks ago when he was traveling and she went to put out the trash. I saw our Village police cruiser pull up with the officer ready to draw his gun. Turns out, she saw a pair of "huge raccoons" in the trash can, convinced that they were rabid and ready to attack her. I intervened (I know the officer) and took a peek. Two 3+/- month old baby raccoons had figured out how to get in the 4 foot deep plastic can, but couldn't get out. Rough estimate, less than 5 pounds each. I scooped them up (wearing gloves) put them in a box and carted them back to the nearby woods. So far, I'm not foaming at the mouth or experiencing any crazy spells. At least not any more than usual.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    edited October 2012
    For sure I would not pick on a raccoon, ESPECIALLY a female with babies !!!! ;)

    I am sure if you had gotten bit or scratched they would have made you go to the hospital and probably insisted you get the rabies shots protocols.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    I saw it and am definitely interested. Heck, anything the size of a car with a diesel puts it in the "interest" category!

    I was very interested in the Jetta TDI wagon after the discussion here, but couldn't find anything in the used market and just could not justify an extra $10K over what I spent for the extra space.

    Now, I am back in the "watch and wait" category so I can see how the car market evolves over the next few years.

    I'm serious, though, when I say that if Subaru offered their diesel Forester stateside (with MT, of course), I'd trade in my '10 Forester in a heartbeat.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • I'd buy the VW AllTrack (concept car) in a diesel if it had a manual transmission and it was available for purchase.

    price of the car - $25k - $35k depending on the make and features.
    price of fuel - Less important than fuel economy.
    practicality - Wagon or Small Crossover. 4 doors and hatch. AWD, Quality interior materials. Heated Seats. Auto Climate control.
    MPG - 25mpg average minimum.
    manufacturer - Audi put a lot of effort into the Le Mans series. Let's see the payoff. Most manufacturers had diesels outside of the US.
    performance - What's the equivalent of 160hp gasoline engine (minimum)?
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    Well, this continuance of some of the first posts of this thread does one of two things. It either sums up the concept that whatever gassers are made should have diesel/s to multiple counterparts. (like Europe) or indicates fierce resistance at many levels to ... diesels.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sharp looking wagon, but the CX5 and CX9 are doing well here, so we'll never see it.

    Hopefully we do see a CX5 diesel. The 2l gasser lacks torque. Of course it's a small non-turbo pulling a lot of weight, so no surprise.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    Both to either are naturals for a TDI or whatever Mazda choses to call them. It is like the BMW, etc MB ML350 and the GL 250.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, on the heavy side, designed to haul people and cargo, maybe even tow a little. Not city cars at all.

    Definitely a diesel's target market.

    Edit to add:

    whatever Mazda choses to call them

    SkyActiv D
This discussion has been closed.