Hybrids are selling well and that's what people want, so they're just giving it to them.
We've discussed (at length) how diesels are blocked with higher fuel taxes and artificially low CAFE numbers for them, but Toyota doesn't make those rules.
Where did you see "diesel" mentioned in that article? I was all excited to take a look at it, but boy was that a disappointment!
I like that size of vehicle, though - very practically packaged with some well-thought-out storage options. In a vehicle that size, though, an MT option would be stellar. I could see myself swapping into a diesel version of that from my Fiesta if it handled well - especially if there were an MT option mated to a diesel!
As it is, I'm in a good position to just sit back and see what the manufacturers throw at us for the next several years. :P
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Oh you mean the kind words you had for both the VW Jetta and Touareg hybrids? All kidding aside the upcharges in vehicle and fuel ownership are really opaque to consumers. A while back I posted that quote from a Fortune about the trouble with the VW world class car is both a 8k up charge for diesel and the fact that it was a M/T. Indeed the cost per mile driven electric are higher than either gas/ gas hybrid/diesel/ and any dilution of RUG/PUG.
Another is the hybrid up charge. Now there is no similar stated number, hybrid for a direct comparison, but when I got a commute car in 2004 the difference was pretty close to 10k ( in my case it was more like 13k) for a gasser to a gasser/hybrid.
Given how the realities worked out with a real world 7 mpg hybrid advantage against a 10k premium, it would take me 610,000 miles to B/E. Needless to say this is a SERIOUS difference
When I read about 2 engine options I assumed one would be a diesel. Don't the cargo models come in a diesel? It's crazy not to offer the passenger model with the already-certified diesel.
For some funny reason, you see this Toyota hybrid issue analogous to an NFL football game. I think the "HATE" component issue emanates from you. :surprise:
I think finally the "systems" are "getting it", albeit very very slowly. The logic here is inescapeable, but a gasser hybrid is still dependent on RUG/PUG !!! In effect it does not change the ratio one bit, even as it lessens the use i.e.. my case 45- 38= -7 mpg.
I think in a lot of ways this fuel crisis has for close to a generation (1970's Carter crisis) been "made up". To have more than 95% of the passenger vehicle fleet gasser when the refining of a barrel of fuel yields 19.8 gasoline and 9.8 gals diesel yields predictable results. Just the math alone indicates a min of 25% diesel will actually diminish crude oil DEMAND. This does not even included the 33% mpg advantage OF diesel.
Of course all the cats are out of the respective bags. The US energy reserves are more massive than even the middle east: coal, natural gas, oil. When you add to that the more inefficient and less effective solar, wind, geothermal, methane, algae, process energy recovery, etc, etc, the middle east dwarfs the US markets in EVERY category.
So on one hand there is no real macro need to switch to diesel, but then on the other hand it makes all the sense in the world. :lemon: :shades: :confuse: :sick:
Absolutely VW and its customers would disagree !!!!!! App 49 to 50 % of the European market are currently gassers. While you would want to ignore/gloss over it, it also wants to give customers what they want. Some examples: gassers, gasser/hybrids, diesels,, turbos. They even are testing markets for diesel hybrids. As I think you mentioned the VW Touareg offers a SUPERCHARGER gasser hybrid.
True, but again, ... no. VW diesel in the US markets are currently no more than app 20% of the over all market production. So, you ... are even MORE wrong, aka, gassers are 80% :confuse:
The recent opening and 2011 and 2012 production of the Chatanooga, TN VW Passat plant is another gasser (mostly) success initiative. I understand that the projection is app 23% of that model line will be diesel, or 78% gasser.
It boggles the mind to think someone would buy a VW Gasser. I drove a Passat gasser before I bought the TDI back in 2005. I was not impressed in the least. I test drove the 2.5L in a Beetle. The only thing worse was my test drive of the Subaru with CVT. The only reason I would buy a small vehicle is to get great mileage. 30 MPG average is not great mileage, or enough to give up the room and comfort of a large SUV. My cash stays in the bank until I get close to 30 MPG in an SUV or large CUV.
Purely from a personal point of view, I would have to agree. It is hard for me to fathom going back to ANY gasser, even as I know that 95% of the passenger vehicle population are... gassers; including almost 100% of US market hybrids. I also realize that folks like me are in an extremely small minority position (diesel passenger CARS 2.5%). So while to me, this is extremely rational, the overwhelming gasser numbers and percentages might indicate extreme irrationality.
But then again using only one example for 11 years and 179,000 miles, Jetta 1.9 TDI (mpg of 44 to 62 mpg ) with say an average of 50 mpg, and www.fueleconomy.com reports of 46.5 mpg, the Jetta 1.8 T of 27.5 mpg: the TDI bests the gasser respectively @ 81.8%/ 69.1 % respectively. There are of course, other conclusions.
..."You try to "spin" any information about hybrids negatively.
No matter if it's mileage results (cherry picking the worst, of course), then supply and sales, now even profits."...
Well no, and as you have noted (not probably what you wanted to have done) the advantages of diesels are multi faceted. So for a lot of reasons, diesels have and still make a lot more sense to me.
As for breaking out the diesel profits issue, I did NOT. It was for total VW of which diesels are percentage of the mix. It is also TOTAL Toyota, etc. Don't forget that Toyota et al., have percentage diesels also. Might I cite the Toyota turbo diesel Landcruiser that is avaialbe world wide but obviously not in US markets. :sick:
"VW Bests Rivals in a Europe Of Haves and Have-Nots" by Vanessa Fuhrmans, Wed, Nov. 14 2012, pg A1, (1/2 pg 14 folllow up) WSJ.
Might this be apropos?
excerpts only:
" As CRATERING (all caps my sic only) car sales in Europe ravage companies such as Fiat, GM- Opel and PSA Peugeot Citroen SA, their big German rival is parlaying the regions sovereignn-debt woes into a market share coup.
Its unexpected weapon: cheap car loans, ...,
..."lift its Western European car market share to a quarter from 20%"... (sic 25% UP)
VW , whose brands range from Audi to Skoda to Porsche, hasn't been immune to the European slowdown. While its sales of VW- brand cars in Germany this year were flat thru Oct, the company said they fell 6% elsewhere in Western Europe.... (competitors, my sic) ...nearly all of which have suffered double-digit drops in European sales this year"...
So might you conclude the WSJ has been listening to my invective point of view? :P :shades:
VW using their cash to finance is a good idea as long as they don't fall into the trap GM has. GM is now the Sub-Prime lender to the automotive industry in the USA. Another balloon that can only end in a mess for GM.
Near the end of 2010, GM acquired a new captive lending arm, subprime specialist AmeriCredit. Renamed GM Financial, it has played a significant role in GM's growth .
The automaker is relying increasingly on subprime loans, 10-Q financial reports shows.
Potential borrowers of car loans are rated on FICO scores that range from 300 to 850. Anything under 660 is generally deemed subprime.
Subprime Key Driver
GM Financial auto loans to customers with FICO scores below 660 rose from 87% of total loans in Q4 2010 to 93% in Q1 2012.
Sell a lot of cars to people that don't have a history of paying back their loans. Keeps the numbers game up for GM, but the end result will not be so pleasant. Smart money will not buy into GM stock. Thus our chances of ever recovering from the GM Bailout is nil.
One real world indicator, (in arrears) from 1 to 5 years later (typically) would be less than optimum ( used car) resale prices. The scary part is not many GM products typically have even "good" resale prices !
This is almost literally a non issue for the 03 Jetta TDI. The biggest complaint about : resale prices are WAY too high!? :shades:
Halfway through VW's battle plan of besting "Toyota" in over all (world) sales, and closer to the vest, percentage wise infinitely more profitable, the 2009 Jetta TDI is not only proving to be a very desirable used car, but resale prices are stellar. The verdict (resale prices) on the 2012 Touareg (zero %) is still out.
Just an FYI, but per 10,000 dollars the difference in costs between 0 and 1.9% (considered a good % loan) is app $190 per year x a 5 year typical loan is $950. So if the typical car is say 25,000 dollars (which most folks are stretching to "afford" anyway) the interest monies are more like 2,375+ over the life of the typical 5 year loan. When you add that to less than good resale prices, well most folks don't even get this far.
33.3% of European cars sales typically invoke some sort of financing.
I know that 95% of the passenger vehicle population are... gassers
True, but you still have to account for all the trucks. I mean, they would be in line with you, right?
The Shell near me is the only diesel station, and STUPIDLY they put the only 2 diesel pumps in the middle pumps. So basically the outer 2 block it if they're in use, and you may have to wait even if the diesel pump is free. It's just poor design.
Generally speaking whatever it costs the dealer for low interest can be shaved off the price of the vehicle when paying cash. With money in the bank not gaining interest, it is silly to pay interest on a vehicle. The best way to break the vicious cycle of monthly payments, is to keep the car 5 years after it is paid off. Keep putting the payment into savings. Then you will have the money for a new car. Who knows you may get lucky and keep the car 24 years like my wife's LS400. I wish it would break so I could buy a replacement.
..."True, but you still have to account for all the trucks. I mean, they would be in line with you, right?"...
I am not sure what you mean.
As for the fuel station near you ( that probably put in "a me too" 2 diesel pumps), of course, it is ideal to put in dedicated ULSD and/or both Red/Dye. (if one lives in a farming/industrial area) I am sure we would get into TMI on current fuel station requirements and design.
VW using their cash to finance is a good idea as long as they don't fall into the trap GM has
They have deeper pockets than Fiat or Renault but in the long run this will bite them back. The governments are complaining that the Germans are dumping cars there. A price war benefits no one.
We can't just look at passenger vehicles, but also fleet vehicles and every other diesel that uses the road.
I think one reason diesel is taxed at a higher rate is that consumers don't see the cost directly, but instead indirectly with things like the prices they pay for good. Politicians can hide a tax increase this way, taxing diesel instead of gasoline.
Sure you can. Follow the cash flow trail ! No bene's for the taxation agencies. Fuel stations have absolutely no issues using current technology to keep track of their diesel customer's 'pricing structures. It would be a nit to not charge the higher excise taxes for ULSD (.10.5 cent more for passenger diesels) Indeed it is being done for RED DYE. (no taxation)
You are correct on the ripple effect for the diesel prices charged to businesses. Its a jobs, profit, cost and competitiveness KILLER !!!!! It does a damn fine, fine job !! So you have to give the governments kudos !!! :sick:
The US needs an comprehensive energy policy that makes sense, and it might be good to start here.
If you pick a gasser for performance then you should be willing to pay a "sin tax", in effect. Tax diesel less so people can eat. And heat their homes in the NE.
Indeed with the re-election of the current administration, I think the governed have already voted/spoken. They are about to find out whom are considered rich, (hard to believe they didn't know already) ! In the case of RUG/PUG, anyone who has to buy it. In the case of your tax diesel LESS scenario, ah,... anyone that has to eat. (in addition of course to those that have to buy it( !!! So it WAS popular at the polls !!!
Indeed that is true !! For those that do not have a job or are under employed (up to 25% or now app 2 standard deviations of the working population) just buying fuel and insurance are monumental tasks.
Lets see, 1 to 5 years old as a BARE minimum. Buy the car in the category the insurance companies say for lowest insurance rates. Buy only if you can write a check for it. Buy it as cheaply as you can This also cuts down the volume of sale tax and registration taxation. These are sad, dangerous and challenging times.
So yes, I agree. I am trying to take two to a minimum of 30 years in service EACH 1994/1996 newbies 19 and 17 years old)
..."They should categorize diesel as an alternative fuel. "...
Just another sign that the fuel crisis is a contrivance. Even with its designation as an ALTERNATIVE FUEL, they tax it more !! The real reason is that it actually uses LESS , which is what it is the whole spirit and intent so they charge much MORE ALSO !!!
It is disingenuous of hybrid owners vilifying diesels., aka alternative fuels. To state the utter obvious: Prius hybrid owners still use (the "hated") RUG. They still use (close to 100%) the very fuel they say they should get OFF off. !! A diesel user is totally OFF RUG. To have to state this, defies logic. It is obvious the (anti diesel) mantra is at work here.
To state the obvious, neither RUG (which most hybrids use and is the major portion of a hybrid use)AND the hybrid portion is classified an alternative fuel. Further same model gassers use MORE fuel than diesels. We would have way less demand for oil if more of the passenger car fleet were diesel. Europe is @ 50+%. In America, a "reasonable" diesel target are more like 25%.passenger diesel cars.
So for those in denial that the system is stacked AGAINST diesel (passenger cars) is not only delusional, but really has no understanding of basic (percentage also,) math. 95% RUG/PUG are not a majority? 2.5% passenger diesel cars are NOT a minority? So what is this known in lesson/story telling/touchie fee lie circles? The emperor has no clothes?
Well, I don't have a hybrid and I don't like diesels. Got bombed by a stinkpot walking to town yesterday. Hybrids are still a small minority of car owners. New car buyers are mostly coming from the gasser fleets. Some outfit (JD Power?) even says that hybrid owners don't buy another hybrid when they trade.
Diesel fans should focus on the positives of making the switch, not spend time attacking people for their choice of rides. Flies on honey you know.
As a consumer in the market place, YOU (anybody for that matter) should be able to vote with one's feet (checkbook).
Truthfully I am just fine with the majority of folks NOT selecting diesels. The umbrage taken is when legislative and regulatory powers are used to jam that down consumers throats, by lack of choices or opgue to most consumers making diesel choices (per Fortune mag quote) $ 8,000 more expensive and unnecessarily). It is more than obvious that your advice really does not work, even as that is the way I have chosen.For as aggressively as hybrid has been promoted and the defacto policy not a lot of consumers are rushing to the products (as you have asserted).
I vote with my feet and I support groups like the American Lung Association. Manufacturers will simply have to make rigs that don't foul the air and consumers will have to pay the price.
Otherwise consumers will have to pay the price for the health costs. If you don't like clean air regulations, sorry, but I think you're in the minority. And it's not like it's some unobtainable goal to make "clean" diesels either.
LOL Yes it is most apparent why 95% of the cars use RUG/PUG which is 2 x to 18 times DIRTIER than diesel !!! :shades: But yeah I am "on board" I also like apple pie, mudder on the hood (of the SUV)and the DOG gy dog world.
Those R & D, markets, etc., policy brush strokes etc are for folks and industries way higher than my pay grade. Every reasonable solution is constantly vilified, if that give you any hope. The rest is just entertainment. :lemon: :shades:
More to the point is LSD has already gone from 500 ppm to 15 ppm and nominally delievered at the pumps 5 to 10 ppm so the pollution potential dropped literally 97 to 99%.
BUT mysteriously you are ok with the gas you use being up to 18 x dirtier because .....? Now that defacto would say you take the Robert Duval quote rather literally, i.e. "I like the smell of napalm in the morning" and in that context the over all INSANITY ?
Now you are starting to acknowledge the "insanity, " whether you know it or not, like it or not, etc., are other discussions. Politely I refer to it as being disingenuous. So for example you on one hand would say the power being out in the New Jersey area is a good to GREAT thing. I would say those victimized now would consider it outrageous.
That's quite a leap. And quite incorrect as well. A friend's parents out on Long Island took ten days to get power back on and it was not a good thing.
Again it emphasizes the contrivance of it all. For example, I have NO doubts my (to be 20 to 30 year old) gassers will be more than able to PASS its smog tests !!! My 10 year old going on 11 years old TDI easily does it now !!!!!!!
If one believes all the blather dash, one could easily come to the conclusion my CA TDI causes all the pollution in the state. !!! (no I am not making a case for a drone strike)
Not to put words in Gagrices mouth but we in CA make fuel supply so difficult yet freely allow Mexican trucking into the state !!! ??? (aka LSD and above and NO emissions control)
"The agreement that led to Friday’s action calls for Mexican truck emissions to meet U.S. clean air standards and for Mexican trucking companies and drivers to submit to U.S. security checks.
It also says Mexican truck drivers must meet U.S. highway safety standards and demonstrate competency in English, to show they can read road signs and communicate with police."
Kind of funny how some automakers that are willing to comply with US and Canadian CAFE rules that reduce greenhouse gases thumb their noses at those villains in Mexico.
Comments
Different strokes for different folks. I've never owned a hybrid but if that's what people want, fine with me. Only OPEC should be upset.
We've discussed (at length) how diesels are blocked with higher fuel taxes and artificially low CAFE numbers for them, but Toyota doesn't make those rules.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/13/2014-ford-transit-connect-wagon-brings-miniva- ns-back-to-the-blue/
By then I'll probably be downsizing, which is a shame because that moonroof looks pretty awesome.
If the EcoBoost version gets 30mpg highway, the diesel should be, what, mid-high 30s? I think the peak now is the 28mpg Odyssey.
I like that size of vehicle, though - very practically packaged with some well-thought-out storage options. In a vehicle that size, though, an MT option would be stellar. I could see myself swapping into a diesel version of that from my Fiesta if it handled well - especially if there were an MT option mated to a diesel!
As it is, I'm in a good position to just sit back and see what the manufacturers throw at us for the next several years. :P
Another is the hybrid up charge. Now there is no similar stated number, hybrid for a direct comparison, but when I got a commute car in 2004 the difference was pretty close to 10k ( in my case it was more like 13k) for a gasser to a gasser/hybrid.
Given how the realities worked out with a real world 7 mpg hybrid advantage against a 10k premium, it would take me 610,000 miles to B/E. Needless to say this is a SERIOUS difference
When I read about 2 engine options I assumed one would be a diesel. Don't the cargo models come in a diesel? It's crazy not to offer the passenger model with the already-certified diesel.
Here's more details:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/13/ford-shows-off-2014-transit-connect-wagon-con- firms-cargo-model/
it will be available in the buyer's choice of either a 2.5-liter naturally aspirated four-cylinder or a 1.6-liter EcoBoost four
Who will buy the lame duck 2.5l engine? I don't think it's even Direct Injected.
They do say it'll be the lowest priced 7 seater, so you'd have room to upgrade to the diesel and still not spend a fortune.
Toyota has done hybrids well, crushing Honda, Ford, basically everybody.
Its just the nature of the beast. Being the biggest target means you get hit the most.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
No matter if it's mileage results (cherry picking the worst, of course), then supply and sales, now even profits.
Fair enough, but when the same person keeps tossing mud at the same target, you begin to think, is it insecurity?
Diesel has its place. Hybrid has its place, too, a different customer.
I think in a lot of ways this fuel crisis has for close to a generation (1970's Carter crisis) been "made up". To have more than 95% of the passenger vehicle fleet gasser when the refining of a barrel of fuel yields 19.8 gasoline and 9.8 gals diesel yields predictable results. Just the math alone indicates a min of 25% diesel will actually diminish crude oil DEMAND. This does not even included the 33% mpg advantage OF diesel.
Of course all the cats are out of the respective bags. The US energy reserves are more massive than even the middle east: coal, natural gas, oil. When you add to that the more inefficient and less effective solar, wind, geothermal, methane, algae, process energy recovery, etc, etc, the middle east dwarfs the US markets in EVERY category.
So on one hand there is no real macro need to switch to diesel, but then on the other hand it makes all the sense in the world. :lemon: :shades: :confuse: :sick:
In fact, I'd argue that they're being influenced probably more than we are. Crossovers are invading over there and demand for them is strong.
The recent opening and 2011 and 2012 production of the Chatanooga, TN VW Passat plant is another gasser (mostly) success initiative. I understand that the projection is app 23% of that model line will be diesel, or 78% gasser.
But then again using only one example for 11 years and 179,000 miles, Jetta 1.9 TDI (mpg of 44 to 62 mpg ) with say an average of 50 mpg, and www.fueleconomy.com reports of 46.5 mpg, the Jetta 1.8 T of 27.5 mpg: the TDI bests the gasser respectively @ 81.8%/ 69.1 % respectively. There are of course, other conclusions.
No matter if it's mileage results (cherry picking the worst, of course), then supply and sales, now even profits."...
Well no, and as you have noted (not probably what you wanted to have done) the advantages of diesels are multi faceted. So for a lot of reasons, diesels have and still make a lot more sense to me.
As for breaking out the diesel profits issue, I did NOT. It was for total VW of which diesels are percentage of the mix. It is also TOTAL Toyota, etc. Don't forget that Toyota et al., have percentage diesels also. Might I cite the Toyota turbo diesel Landcruiser that is avaialbe world wide but obviously not in US markets. :sick:
by Vanessa Fuhrmans, Wed, Nov. 14 2012, pg A1, (1/2 pg 14 folllow up) WSJ.
Might this be apropos?
excerpts only:
" As CRATERING (all caps my sic only) car sales in Europe ravage companies such as Fiat, GM- Opel and PSA Peugeot Citroen SA, their big German rival is parlaying the regions sovereignn-debt woes into a market share coup.
Its unexpected weapon: cheap car loans, ...,
..."lift its Western European car market share to a quarter from 20%"... (sic 25% UP)
VW , whose brands range from Audi to Skoda to Porsche, hasn't been immune to the European slowdown. While its sales of VW- brand cars in Germany this year were flat thru Oct, the company said they fell 6% elsewhere in Western Europe.... (competitors, my sic) ...nearly all of which have suffered double-digit drops in European sales this year"...
So might you conclude the WSJ has been listening to my invective point of view? :P :shades:
Near the end of 2010, GM acquired a new captive lending arm, subprime specialist AmeriCredit. Renamed GM Financial, it has played a significant role in GM's growth .
The automaker is relying increasingly on subprime loans, 10-Q financial reports shows.
Potential borrowers of car loans are rated on FICO scores that range from 300 to 850. Anything under 660 is generally deemed subprime.
Subprime Key Driver
GM Financial auto loans to customers with FICO scores below 660 rose from 87% of total loans in Q4 2010 to 93% in Q1 2012.
Sell a lot of cars to people that don't have a history of paying back their loans. Keeps the numbers game up for GM, but the end result will not be so pleasant. Smart money will not buy into GM stock. Thus our chances of ever recovering from the GM Bailout is nil.
This is almost literally a non issue for the 03 Jetta TDI. The biggest complaint about : resale prices are WAY too high!?
Halfway through VW's battle plan of besting "Toyota" in over all (world) sales, and closer to the vest, percentage wise infinitely more profitable, the 2009 Jetta TDI is not only proving to be a very desirable used car, but resale prices are stellar. The verdict (resale prices) on the 2012 Touareg (zero %) is still out.
Just an FYI, but per 10,000 dollars the difference in costs between 0 and 1.9% (considered a good % loan) is app $190 per year x a 5 year typical loan is $950. So if the typical car is say 25,000 dollars (which most folks are stretching to "afford" anyway) the interest monies are more like 2,375+ over the life of the typical 5 year loan. When you add that to less than good resale prices, well most folks don't even get this far.
33.3% of European cars sales typically invoke some sort of financing.
The 2.slow and 2.5l 5 banger aren't the best gassers around. VW has better turbos, the 1.4TFSI and 2.0TFSI are competitive.
So for economy you go diesel, but for performance I can see why people get the 2.0T.
Will get more interesting as VW starts to offer more modern gassers, let's see if those catch on.
The 2.slow makes for a good boat anchor, but that's about it.
True, but you still have to account for all the trucks. I mean, they would be in line with you, right?
The Shell near me is the only diesel station, and STUPIDLY they put the only 2 diesel pumps in the middle pumps. So basically the outer 2 block it if they're in use, and you may have to wait even if the diesel pump is free. It's just poor design.
I am not sure what you mean.
As for the fuel station near you ( that probably put in "a me too" 2 diesel pumps), of course, it is ideal to put in dedicated ULSD and/or both Red/Dye. (if one lives in a farming/industrial area) I am sure we would get into TMI on current fuel station requirements and design.
They have deeper pockets than Fiat or Renault but in the long run this will bite them back. The governments are complaining that the Germans are dumping cars there. A price war benefits no one.
We can't just look at passenger vehicles, but also fleet vehicles and every other diesel that uses the road.
I think one reason diesel is taxed at a higher rate is that consumers don't see the cost directly, but instead indirectly with things like the prices they pay for good. Politicians can hide a tax increase this way, taxing diesel instead of gasoline.
You are correct on the ripple effect for the diesel prices charged to businesses. Its a jobs, profit, cost and competitiveness KILLER !!!!! It does a damn fine, fine job !! So you have to give the governments kudos !!! :sick:
If you pick a gasser for performance then you should be willing to pay a "sin tax", in effect. Tax diesel less so people can eat. And heat their homes in the NE.
Would not be popular at the polls, I'm afraid.
Lets see, 1 to 5 years old as a BARE minimum. Buy the car in the category the insurance companies say for lowest insurance rates. Buy only if you can write a check for it. Buy it as cheaply as you can This also cuts down the volume of sale tax and registration taxation. These are sad, dangerous and challenging times.
So yes, I agree. I am trying to take two to a minimum of 30 years in service EACH 1994/1996 newbies 19 and 17 years old)
Just another sign that the fuel crisis is a contrivance. Even with its designation as an ALTERNATIVE FUEL, they tax it more !! The real reason is that it actually uses LESS , which is what it is the whole spirit and intent so they charge much MORE ALSO !!!
To state the obvious, neither RUG (which most hybrids use and is the major portion of a hybrid use)AND the hybrid portion is classified an alternative fuel. Further same model gassers use MORE fuel than diesels. We would have way less demand for oil if more of the passenger car fleet were diesel. Europe is @ 50+%. In America, a "reasonable" diesel target are more like 25%.passenger diesel cars.
So for those in denial that the system is stacked AGAINST diesel (passenger cars) is not only delusional, but really has no understanding of basic (percentage also,) math. 95% RUG/PUG are not a majority? 2.5% passenger diesel cars are NOT a minority? So what is this known in lesson/story telling/touchie fee lie circles? The emperor has no clothes?
Hybrids are still a small minority of car owners. New car buyers are mostly coming from the gasser fleets. Some outfit (JD Power?) even says that hybrid owners don't buy another hybrid when they trade.
Diesel fans should focus on the positives of making the switch, not spend time attacking people for their choice of rides. Flies on honey you know.
Truthfully I am just fine with the majority of folks NOT selecting diesels. The umbrage taken is when legislative and regulatory powers are used to jam that down consumers throats, by lack of choices or opgue to most consumers making diesel choices (per Fortune mag quote) $ 8,000 more expensive and unnecessarily). It is more than obvious that your advice really does not work, even as that is the way I have chosen.For as aggressively as hybrid has been promoted and the defacto policy not a lot of consumers are rushing to the products (as you have asserted).
Otherwise consumers will have to pay the price for the health costs. If you don't like clean air regulations, sorry, but I think you're in the minority. And it's not like it's some unobtainable goal to make "clean" diesels either.
Cash for Stinkers?
More to the point is LSD has already gone from 500 ppm to 15 ppm and nominally delievered at the pumps 5 to 10 ppm so the pollution potential dropped literally 97 to 99%.
BUT mysteriously you are ok with the gas you use being up to 18 x dirtier because .....? Now that defacto would say you take the Robert Duval quote rather literally, i.e. "I like the smell of napalm in the morning" and in that context the over all INSANITY ?
Diesel has an image problem and it's not just the price differential. Every time a pickup driver "blows his nose", there's another lost TDI sale.
No diesel answers eh?
If one believes all the blather dash, one could easily come to the conclusion my CA TDI causes all the pollution in the state. !!! (no I am not making a case for a drone strike)
Not to put words in Gagrices mouth but we in CA make fuel supply so difficult yet freely allow Mexican trucking into the state !!! ??? (aka LSD and above and NO emissions control)
It also says Mexican truck drivers must meet U.S. highway safety standards and demonstrate competency in English, to show they can read road signs and communicate with police."
Mexican Trucks Finally Allowed to Enter U.S. Under NAFTA (claimsjournal.com)
Similar story at Reuters
Sounds like a smoke screen to me.
Kind of funny how some automakers that are willing to comply with US and Canadian CAFE rules that reduce greenhouse gases thumb their noses at those villains in Mexico.
Chrysler, Toyota Now United In Shunning Mexican Fuel Standards (greencarreports.com)