I'll admit it's funny to see ladies in Mercedes (hey, that rhymes) in line behind HD pickups at the Shell at Montgomery Mall. They only have 2 diesel pumps, and they stupidly placed them in the middle of the islands.
With a possible sale of our Sequoia to family, I am starting to look for a diesel to replace it. There are only 148 ML350 Bluetecs available in the entire USA. And when I narrow it to Arctic White or Diamond white only 29 show up. It would be easier to find a BMW X5 35D as my local dealer has 7 in stock. And I see 665 nation wide. Plenty of Touareg TDIs also available. Why does Mercedes have such short supply of ML diesels? They have plenty of worthless gassers.
While unofficial (Good Car Bad Car) MB M series 38,101 / VW T series 10,553 have sold (2012) units respectively.
While purely a swag, IF 23% are diesels: we are talking 8,764/2,428 diesels. Without question, both have managed (2012) UNSOLD diesel inventory excellently. One possible motivator for MB was/is/ continues to be to keep the selling prices as close to MSRP and above as possible. Another spin off since there are no ZERO % loans are the additional revenues generated for those choosing loans.
I have the 2007 Sequoia. The next model looks like a turd. Not sure if the GLK will come as a 250 Bluetec or 350 Bluetec. It is kind of small also. Buying a GLK350 Bluetec is kind of silly IMO. My first choice would be the ML250 Bluetec if they can get them certified for 3rd World sales. :sick:
Two Mercedes-Benz models, the ML 250 BlueTec 4Matic and the Mercedes-Benz B200 Natural Gas Drive, have been named the most eco-friendly cars in their class by the popular German auto magazine Auto Test, which awarded them the title "Winners in Green."
This is the second straight year the ML 250 BlueTec 4Matic has earned the top spot for an SUV, for its energy efficient direct-injection, turbocharged, four-cylinder, 204-horsepower diesel engine. It can accelerate from 0-60 mph in nine seconds and get 40 miles per gallon while emitting just 158 g/km of CO2 (combined). It has a range of just over 1,000 miles.
No one really interested in green energy efficient vehicles in the USA.
Japan was even more anti diesel than the USA. So that does say a lot about the pent up desire for diesels. And the CX-5 must be a dandy diesel vehicle. I think it will up end Subaru in the segment. It uses a real auto transmission with the diesel engine.
You raise an interesting question about the Mercedes diesel inventory. When we were shopping last summer, I had the local Mercedes dealer (Euromotors Bethesda) tell me that the reason they only had one diesel ML and no GL diesels in stock, yet a fleet of ML and GL gas models was "limited demand" for the diesels "in our area". But hell, that's a self fulfilling prophecy. One of our friends bought a GL450 for his wife because it was in stock and with the color/options she wanted. Their 175k mile Suburban blew up and needed to be replaced quickly, so ordering and waiting 4-6+ weeks was not a desirable option. He also had some antiquated diesel biases, that could not be easily dismissed by a test drive of a Bluetec model, had one been readily available. After riding in our X5d a few weeks ago, experienced the acceleration, not hearing offensive engine noise or diesel smell, and seeing our average mpg is at least 50% better than the GL450, he's thinking they made the wrong choice.
Even the BMW dealers in our area were not promoting the X5d that heavily when I went in looking. "Oh, you're interested in the diesel?" was a typical response. In the case of Audi, it would have been the opposite "I assume you are interested in the TDI Q7?". BMW dealers seemed to pick it up in June when BMW took the eco credit back up to $4,500 from $2,500.
As I have said before, now that we have had time with the X5d, I can't see a SINGLE reason to ever consider a gasoline SUV in the future. This isn't a pro-con trade off. There is absolutely no significant "pro" to 3.5i gas that I can see, whether it be performance or economics. And even with other manufacturers charging a MSRP premium for diesel vs. gas models, I think between resale and cost of ownership, the diesel will come out ahead within 2-3 years, if not sooner.
It sure looks like BMW is more interested in selling SUVs than Mercedes. Our small local dealership has 27 X5s on the lot with 8 being diesels. I should say the X5 seems to be the vehicle of choice on the Indian reservations. With at least a half a dozen wealthy tribes blessed with a casino, money is plentiful. This is the closest dealer to most of the reservations.
Listening to you guys, I am beginning to think the majority (of 38,000+) of MB M series are far less than 23% diesels.
I have read in multiple places the fleet wide VW diesels sales are app 20% with specialty market diesels up to 85% diesel (VW Jetta Sport Wagen and VW Touareg @ 23%)
Again the actual official diesel sales records (for all MB, VW, BMW) will be of interest.( I was hard pressed to find them for the MB's / BMW's X5 D and 3 series)
Too funny! On the X5 series I think the 44.445k numbers beat the M series 38k figures.
However TLC's have huge real time testing in desert operation. I understand in the mid east it is the machine gun mounting platform of choice. :sick:
For those small numbers on the reservations able to buy the BMW X5's , I say good for them and welcome to the "American Dream." I am sure the car dealers wish them more prosperity, as do I or anyone for that matter.
If there is anyone interested in seeing the longer term effects of government/s run "entitlement desert mentalities", check out the reservations, the US government put them on a hundred twenty five or so years ago. I have read there are 334 reservations with app 3/4 M folks.
I have more than one friend paying for medical schooling by doctoring on reservations.
Forester has a 2.5l, so at least the base engine is adequate. The turbo is much more than adequate.
The CX5's SkyActiv 2.0l struggles to pull that weight. Mazda should offer the 2.5l SkyActiv (from the Mazda6) and a diesel, and drop the 2 liter entirely.
The GLK350 is fine, Mercedes added DI and it makes plenty of power now. As we all know the diesel is on its way to offer a fuel miser option.
Purely a snap shot only, but of 32,167 of total MB inventory, 2,834 units are diesel. Of those diesel units, fully 2,030 units are MB SPRINTERS. This leaves 804 diesel across the rest of the model line.
This isn't a pro-con trade off. There is absolutely no significant "pro" to 3.5i gas that I can see, whether it be performance or economics
I can, how about 400hp and 450 lbs of torque, Dinan has a nice and simple ECU upgrade for the 3.5l turbo that cost really next to nothing. This simple reflash wakes up the X5...
There are some people who just do not get the true virtues of the oil burner, no matter how much you try.
The same thing can be said in the Porsche world, some people, the purist think the 911 is the ONLY true Porsche and is the best, however, the people who know better would say, the Cayman S is really the better car. Best bang for the buck....
I can, how about 400hp and 450 lbs of torque, Dinan has a nice and simple ECU upgrade for the 3.5l turbo that cost really next to nothing. This simple reflash wakes up the X5...
If that's the "pro" for the X5 3.5i, sad commentary. First of all, it's not quite as "simple" as you make it sound. The manufacturer's warranty is forfeited the second the Dinan chip goes in and if you really drive it like it's a poor man's X5M, the life of the engine is probably cut in half. And this gives you what?? A 5/7 passenger SUV that you can boy race from stop light to stop light? It still won't handle as well as an X5M or Cayenne GTS. And if it breaks, you'll wish you had just ponied up for an X5 5.0i.
I try to be respectful of those whose automotive preferences lean a little differently than mine, but it's hard for me to understand why anyone would remotely think about an ECU flash for a 5,200 lb SUV. Sounds like they need to work a little harder at their day job, so they can get both an X5d and a 911 or Cayman S on the side. With two new car warranties instead of none.
Or....if you only have one space in your garage...an X5 M-diesel in a year or two: M Diesel
Habitat no chip, just a reflash of the ECM, take all of 25 minutes, and the warranty is backed by Dinan. What I like about Dinan is they test and test some more before they release anything. So the added 3 PSI isn't much of a strain on the engine. In fact the turbo 6 is good for 440hp with the added injectors, inter-cooler, and exhaust. Some people are not diesel fans, so to them they can take their X5 and for less than $5500 have the power of a X5M.
I really believe that until diesel prices are more stable in PHX, their is about a .40 cent difference around town, I have seen it for 3.55/g to as high as 3.95/g. Currently PUL is $3.25/g
I think the idea is to get better MPG not quicker 0-60 MPH times. Its an SUV. I want an SUV that is capable of 30 MPG+ on the highway. Which gas version is capable of that and good off road capabilities. Until diesel is priced 40% more the Premium it will be the better choice for mileage.
Seems like an average Joe like me would be shopping Golfs and Jettas. The numbers aren't as interesting as they could be if the models were closer in price and the regular/diesel prices were closer in price.
On the other hand, the little area I live in not only has several options for buying diesel, we even have at least one diesel mechanic that I know of. Not many new Volkswagens around though - they're pretty exotic. :shades:
I personally compare Diesel to Premium because the vehicles I would consider are available in both diesel and PUG configurations.
Living in Michigan I doubt VW is a household name. They do not offer any under $30k AWD vehicles either. I only see one dealer in Escanaba for the whole UP. Most of their new cars are diesel. I cannot imagine buying a VW gasser.
As a side note. My wife's grand daughter that bought the Sportswagen TDI last year is unhappy with the size. Not big enough for the family to travel. She went from a 4Runner to the VW. I think she paid top dollar for the VW so will take a beating on trade or sale. Would like to buy the Sequoia from us.
That was my reasoning. Today in San Diego the cheapest diesel is 7 cents higher than the cheapest Costco Premium. The highest priced premium is $4.79 while the highest priced diesel is $4.69. Depending where you live in our county there is a dollar spread in fuel prices. You can pay as much as $4.59 for Union 76 Regular if you like.
A real advantage of diesel is only having to fill half as many times.
The RX450h is supposed to have Premium. I would not risk the warranty using RUG. And the only poster on the EPA says 100% city driving yielded 22.9 MPG. Pretty bad for a vehicle rated for 30 MPG city.
Not that the RX is even in that class but it takes 87 octane.
Not according to Lexus... And they are not making their owners as happy as the competition. If there is any vehicle they actually compete with. Nothing I would consider.
My VW T "complaint" is opposite, I ONLY get 30 (AVG) when 19 to 28 is advertised !!! False advertising if you "look at the numbers" It can be "OFF as much as 58% to 7% :surprise: :shades: Once in a blue moon, I will post a 36 mpg tank. Now that can be as much as 89% OFF !!
Similarly, it is true for the other two diesels that I have. Numbers are of course different, but same directionality. So how do i get in on the three class action or individual law suits? :sick:
This downward real world mpg (vs EPA) is not an uncommon with GASSERS. Indeed with gasser hybrids. Toyota had the (directionality) issue with the 2004 Prius. It advertised EPA's of 60C/50 H. It barely got 43 mpg (my sidebar is 43 mpg is VERY good !!!) That is why the government doctored the EPA tests shortly after ! :sick: :lemon: :shades:
Habitat no chip, just a reflash of the ECM, take all of 25 minutes, and the warranty is backed by Dinan. What I like about Dinan is they test and test some more before they release anything. So the added 3 PSI isn't much of a strain on the engine.
Again, I'd be careful about thinking a few thousands dollars turns a X5 3.5i into an X5M with no adverse consequences. Dinan is indeed a great company, but even they acknowledge the fact that there is no free lunch with performance upgrades. From their own website:
Dinan: "On the other side, nothing is free and we are asking the engine to do more work and that will increase wear."
I have had several friends that have gone to the local Dinan shop for upgrades of cars that primarily go to the track on weekends. They are not looking to milk 10 years and 150k miles out of an X5d like we are. Sure, Dinan can match a 4/50k warranty, but when you knock down the life of an engine from 200k+ miles to 75-100k, there is a cost that the owner bears. I hope to be posting in this forum in 2023 that our X5d is still chugging along at 30mpg on the highway.
I do appreciate your reference to Dinan, nonetheless. They make some great upgrades for track cars and it's fun to read through their website.
People who buy these higher line diesels aren't cross shopping them with cheap cars, no matter how efficient - they are shopping them with other higher line cars, most of which require (or recommend, but roll those dice at your own risk) premium. If I want an E-class, all varieties of which require premium, why not choose the most efficient one? For virtually the same price (maybe even better after negotiation) and marginal fuel price differences, and maybe better long term resale. Same can be said for a 3er, X5, GL, ML, and so on.
The ES is a wannabe luxury car. Just a fancy Camry. It seems Toyota got slapped for rating that engine at a higher HP using Premium then sold as using regular. The ES is the only Lexus that is rated for Regular. Are there any other luxo barges that use RUG?
The entry level RX350 uses Regular. Another wannabe luxo
I'd buy a diesel car if the price of diesel fuel was'nt twenty cents more then the price of a gallon of premium gas.
At those intentionally ridiculously inflated prices,it makes no sense to buy a diesel powered car.
And as far as buying ANY car that has the proprietary fuel additive system the Mercedes has-you can forget that.
You don't just add the cost of the bluetec fluid-you have to add the TIME you lose having to take the car back the dealer to have that done.
I know that Mercedes has their customers by the wallets because they have to take their cars back to the dealer to clear their maintenance through their car computers but that little trick won't fly with the American public at large.
Frankly,I am saddened that VW has'nt grabbed the diesel market share they own- better.
VW could have marketed the highest diesel mileage car in America by now and should have but I guess automotive and fuel company politics in America have choked that one off our shores for now.
The real answer is,American oil companies never want to see Americans driving diesel fueled vehicles in mass because it is easy to make a very high mpg vehicle that runs on diesel and the oil companies have no way to jack up the cost on one form of diesel like they do on three types of gasoline.
Some would have that opinion of the price of PUG over RUG. But then NorCA for a long time and consistently has had some of the highest fuel prices in the nation. I actually use RUG/PUG and D2. Things are pretty seamless, once you are there using D2 . This is going on 11 years and 250,000 miles albeit 03, 09, 12 MY's for D2. I have posted in more than once place, the comparative cost per mile driven: fuel. I would agree with you both the fuel companies and taxing authorities like most folks to pay more per mile driven fuel, than like model D2's.
As for the AdBlue, it is not unlike filling a ww fluid container. I would be afraid the AdBlue procedure would not be for you, if you can't/won't fill a windshield wiper fluid container.
I'd buy a diesel car if the price of diesel fuel was'nt twenty cents more then the price of a gallon of premium gas.....At those intentionally ridiculously inflated prices,it makes no sense to buy a diesel powered car.
Boy, with a statement like that, I hope you aren't helping your kids with their math homework.
I'm not going to try to give you a complete lesson, but if diesel costs approximately 5% more than PUG, but your fuel economy per gallon increases 25% (extremely conservative, in my real world experience), you are still WAY ahead (apron 20%) in fuel cost savings with diesel.
In fact, I have located diesel fuel in the DC area that is roughly equal to PUG and we are getting at least 40-50% better fuel economy in our X5d than our old MDX. So for us, it makes no sense to ever consider a gas SUV again.
s for the Ad-blue additive, it is not "proprietary" and is required by BMW diesels as well. Covered in the 4/50 free service, but even after that, the cost through my independent mechanic is around $50 per 10,000 +/- miles. An insignificant cost differential, especially after you replace the proprietary spark plugs on a gas engine at 50k miles.
I did the plugs on my '99 minivan at 124k. Wish I had waited a while longer.
Let's see, the gas X5 MSRP starts at $47,500. The diesel X5 is $56,700. Is the diesel supposed to be equivalent to the Sport or something? Pretty big price premium compared to the base X5 gasser.
Fuel economy is 16/23 for the gasser, 19/26 for the diesel. Fuel costs in LA for the gasser would be $2,953, $2,776 for the diesel.
Those numbers are from the MPG section here at Edmunds, vary per zip code, and the slider defaults to 55% city, 45% highway, but you can change it to match your own driving habits.
..."s for the Ad-blue additive, it is not "proprietary" and is required by BMW diesels as well. Covered in the 4/50 free service, but even after that, the cost through my independent mechanic is around $50 per 10,000 +/- miles. An insignificant cost differential, especially after you replace the proprietary spark plugs on a gas engine at 50k miles."...
Not to rain on anyones parade, but to follow in the DIY fill the windshield washer fluid container example, 2.5 gal container of "AD Blue" can range between 10-13 per or app 20-26 per 5 gal (or so) AdBlue tank. The VW T is consuming app 5 gals per 15,000 miles or .002 cents per mile: Ad Blue. It can be bought @ WalMart's.
Check out the real World of BMW X5. Here is the inventory of my local dealer. Most of the V6 models priced right in with the diesel models. And in fairness the torque of the diesel puts it in the V8 class which costs a lot more. You can spend $67k for a V6 X5 gasser. That would be crazy IMO.
Let's see, the gas X5 MSRP starts at $47,500. The diesel X5 is $56,700. Is the diesel supposed to be equivalent to the Sport or something? Pretty big price premium compared to the base X5 gasser.
Boy, besides questionable math, I now have to give a lesson to an Edmund's Host on how to compare apples and apples??
Yes Steve, you can theoretically get a stripped down "base" gas model devoid of numerous standard features on the X5 3.5i Premium or Diesel models. But if you want to compare equivalent models, you need to start with the Premium model and do a few adjustments to each. If you can manage that mental challenge, you will then be in a position to conclude that the diesel engine has a $1,500 to $2,000 +/- MSRP premium over the equivalently equipped gas model. And then, if you can handle subtraction, apply the current Eco Credit, and - Bazinga! - you will conclude that the diesel is CHEAPER than the gas model. Back when the Eco-credit for mine was $4,500, it was approximately $2,800 less.
As for the fuel economy, much has been posted on forums here, there and everywhere that the actual difference between gas MPG and diesel MPG is greater than the EPA estimates. My personal experience was that our MDX needed a heavy tailwind to achieve EPA highway ratings and never came close to the EPA city crawling around inside the DC Beltway. Our X5d hits the EPA city rating with no problem and could probably exceed the EPA highway while PULLING the MDX on a trailer. You can ignore the real world and live by the EPA bible all you want, but the EPA doesn't pay my fuel bills, I do.
It's pretty easy to see your antiquated biases against diesels shining through your posts - and that's certainly your personal prerogative. But I would hope for at least a little more accuracy out of an Edmunds Host relative to price comparisons. By the way, try to find someone who has ever bought an X5 3.5i base model. According to my dealer, of the several hundred X5's they sold in 2012, no more than 3-4 were special order "base" models. They have never ordered one for dealer inventory. The average X5 3.5i Premium on the lot has a sticker well into the $60's.
Thanks, I didn't want to plow through 5 models to try to figure which one the diesel might compare to. Someone thinking about an X5 is going to see a $10k difference right off the bat between the "base" X5 and the diesel though. And many will move on.
Not sure how diesel fumes being an asthma trigger for my wife equates to an "antiquated bias against diesels". And then there's all the health factors people keep overlooking: (American Lung Association. World Health Organization - CNN).
"Clean diesel", even in passenger cars, is a ways off from being the norm.
(Fintail, the specs on site say premium unleaded for the X5s so I have to assume that the fuel calculator uses the required fuel).
According to your article the data is very old and skewed:
"It therefore does not reflect the technology changes that have been made since then," he said.
Your bias has always come through whether valid or not. Old beliefs die hard. Gas exhaust will kill you quicker than diesel.
For those so ignorant as to not compare vehicles they deserve to drive a gas hog and keep the oil companies happy. Of the 29 X5s on my local dealer's lot only 4 of the V6 gas models are under $60k. 13 of the X5 V6 models are priced from $60k to $67k. They have 8 X5 diesels in that same price range. I would say if they go by what is posted on a non dealers website they may be in for a sticker shock.
Comments
I'll admit it's funny to see ladies in Mercedes (hey, that rhymes) in line behind HD pickups at the Shell at Montgomery Mall. They only have 2 diesel pumps, and they stupidly placed them in the middle of the islands.
Or pimp out your Sequoia like this armored one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1H97aXkggY&feature=share&list=UUaW5kQDz_zsnOVFld- YXgWGg
While purely a swag, IF 23% are diesels: we are talking 8,764/2,428 diesels. Without question, both have managed (2012) UNSOLD diesel inventory excellently. One possible motivator for MB was/is/ continues to be to keep the selling prices as close to MSRP and above as possible. Another spin off since there are no ZERO % loans are the additional revenues generated for those choosing loans.
Two Mercedes-Benz models, the ML 250 BlueTec 4Matic and the Mercedes-Benz B200 Natural Gas Drive, have been named the most eco-friendly cars in their class by the popular German auto magazine Auto Test, which awarded them the title "Winners in Green."
This is the second straight year the ML 250 BlueTec 4Matic has earned the top spot for an SUV, for its energy efficient direct-injection, turbocharged, four-cylinder, 204-horsepower diesel engine. It can accelerate from 0-60 mph in nine seconds and get 40 miles per gallon while emitting just 158 g/km of CO2 (combined). It has a range of just over 1,000 miles.
No one really interested in green energy efficient vehicles in the USA.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130110/BLOG06/130119989#ixzz2Hc2U7KdY
The SkyActiv gasser is ok in the Mazda3 but underpowered in the heavier CX5.
Even the BMW dealers in our area were not promoting the X5d that heavily when I went in looking. "Oh, you're interested in the diesel?" was a typical response. In the case of Audi, it would have been the opposite "I assume you are interested in the TDI Q7?". BMW dealers seemed to pick it up in June when BMW took the eco credit back up to $4,500 from $2,500.
As I have said before, now that we have had time with the X5d, I can't see a SINGLE reason to ever consider a gasoline SUV in the future. This isn't a pro-con trade off. There is absolutely no significant "pro" to 3.5i gas that I can see, whether it be performance or economics. And even with other manufacturers charging a MSRP premium for diesel vs. gas models, I think between resale and cost of ownership, the diesel will come out ahead within 2-3 years, if not sooner.
http://www.bmwsouthcounty.com/inventory/BMW-X5-San_Diego-p2.html
I will take another look. The one I drove in 2009 had very firm seats. The Mercedes seats were more comfortable to my backside.
I have read in multiple places the fleet wide VW diesels sales are app 20% with specialty market diesels up to 85% diesel (VW Jetta Sport Wagen and VW Touareg @ 23%)
Again the actual official diesel sales records (for all MB, VW, BMW) will be of interest.( I was hard pressed to find them for the MB's / BMW's X5 D and 3 series)
However TLC's have huge real time testing in desert operation.
For those small numbers on the reservations able to buy the BMW X5's , I say good for them and welcome to the "American Dream." I am sure the car dealers wish them more prosperity, as do I or anyone for that matter.
If there is anyone interested in seeing the longer term effects of government/s run "entitlement desert mentalities", check out the reservations, the US government put them on a hundred twenty five or so years ago. I have read there are 334 reservations with app 3/4 M folks.
I have more than one friend paying for medical schooling by doctoring on reservations.
The CX5's SkyActiv 2.0l struggles to pull that weight. Mazda should offer the 2.5l SkyActiv (from the Mazda6) and a diesel, and drop the 2 liter entirely.
The GLK350 is fine, Mercedes added DI and it makes plenty of power now. As we all know the diesel is on its way to offer a fuel miser option.
I can, how about 400hp and 450 lbs of torque, Dinan has a nice and simple ECU upgrade for the 3.5l turbo that cost really next to nothing. This simple reflash wakes up the X5...
There are some people who just do not get the true virtues of the oil burner, no matter how much you try.
The same thing can be said in the Porsche world, some people, the purist think the 911 is the ONLY true Porsche and is the best, however, the people who know better would say, the Cayman S is really the better car. Best bang for the buck....
If that's the "pro" for the X5 3.5i, sad commentary. First of all, it's not quite as "simple" as you make it sound. The manufacturer's warranty is forfeited the second the Dinan chip goes in and if you really drive it like it's a poor man's X5M, the life of the engine is probably cut in half. And this gives you what?? A 5/7 passenger SUV that you can boy race from stop light to stop light? It still won't handle as well as an X5M or Cayenne GTS. And if it breaks, you'll wish you had just ponied up for an X5 5.0i.
I try to be respectful of those whose automotive preferences lean a little differently than mine, but it's hard for me to understand why anyone would remotely think about an ECU flash for a 5,200 lb SUV. Sounds like they need to work a little harder at their day job, so they can get both an X5d and a 911 or Cayman S on the side.
Or....if you only have one space in your garage...an X5 M-diesel in a year or two: M Diesel
I really believe that until diesel prices are more stable in PHX, their is about a .40 cent difference around town, I have seen it for 3.55/g to as high as 3.95/g. Currently PUL is $3.25/g
To me if you're after low fuel cost premium requirement kills the whole idea. May as well do diesel.
On the other hand, the little area I live in not only has several options for buying diesel, we even have at least one diesel mechanic that I know of. Not many new Volkswagens around though - they're pretty exotic. :shades:
Living in Michigan I doubt VW is a household name. They do not offer any under $30k AWD vehicles either. I only see one dealer in Escanaba for the whole UP. Most of their new cars are diesel. I cannot imagine buying a VW gasser.
As a side note. My wife's grand daughter that bought the Sportswagen TDI last year is unhappy with the size. Not big enough for the family to travel. She went from a 4Runner to the VW. I think she paid top dollar for the VW so will take a beating on trade or sale. Would like to buy the Sequoia from us.
My neighbor does have a VW wagon across the street though.
A real advantage of diesel is only having to fill half as many times.
The RX450h is supposed to have Premium. I would not risk the warranty using RUG. And the only poster on the EPA says 100% city driving yielded 22.9 MPG. Pretty bad for a vehicle rated for 30 MPG city.
Not according to Lexus... And they are not making their owners as happy as the competition. If there is any vehicle they actually compete with. Nothing I would consider.
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/rx-450h/2013/consumer-reviews.html?sub=suv
Similarly, it is true for the other two diesels that I have. Numbers are of course different, but same directionality. So how do i get in on the three class action or individual law suits?
This downward real world mpg (vs EPA) is not an uncommon with GASSERS. Indeed with gasser hybrids. Toyota had the (directionality) issue with the 2004 Prius. It advertised EPA's of 60C/50 H. It barely got 43 mpg (my sidebar is 43 mpg is VERY good !!!) That is why the government doctored the EPA tests shortly after !
Again, I'd be careful about thinking a few thousands dollars turns a X5 3.5i into an X5M with no adverse consequences. Dinan is indeed a great company, but even they acknowledge the fact that there is no free lunch with performance upgrades. From their own website:
Dinan: "On the other side, nothing is free and we are asking the engine to do more work and that will increase wear."
I have had several friends that have gone to the local Dinan shop for upgrades of cars that primarily go to the track on weekends. They are not looking to milk 10 years and 150k miles out of an X5d like we are. Sure, Dinan can match a 4/50k warranty, but when you knock down the life of an engine from 200k+ miles to 75-100k, there is a cost that the owner bears. I hope to be posting in this forum in 2023 that our X5d is still chugging along at 30mpg on the highway.
I do appreciate your reference to Dinan, nonetheless. They make some great upgrades for track cars and it's fun to read through their website.
The entry level RX350 uses Regular. Another wannabe luxo
Yes, there are lots of domestic lux cars that burn regular.
Will Lincoln survive? Caddies look like they came out of a cracker jack box. Best selling Caddy built in Mexico.
At those intentionally ridiculously inflated prices,it makes no sense to buy a diesel powered car.
And as far as buying ANY car that has the proprietary fuel additive system the Mercedes has-you can forget that.
You don't just add the cost of the bluetec fluid-you have to add the TIME you lose having to take the car back the dealer to have that done.
I know that Mercedes has their customers by the wallets because they have to take their cars back to the dealer to clear their maintenance through their car computers but that little trick won't fly with the American public at large.
Frankly,I am saddened that VW has'nt grabbed the diesel market share they own- better.
VW could have marketed the highest diesel mileage car in America by now and should have but I guess automotive and fuel company politics in America have choked that one off our shores for now.
The real answer is,American oil companies never want to see Americans driving diesel fueled vehicles in mass because it is easy to make a very high mpg vehicle that runs on diesel and the oil companies have no way to jack up the cost on one form of diesel like they do on three types of gasoline.
As usual,we get screwed.
As for the AdBlue, it is not unlike filling a ww fluid container. I would be afraid the AdBlue procedure would not be for you, if you can't/won't fill a windshield wiper fluid container.
Boy, with a statement like that, I hope you aren't helping your kids with their math homework.
I'm not going to try to give you a complete lesson, but if diesel costs approximately 5% more than PUG, but your fuel economy per gallon increases 25% (extremely conservative, in my real world experience), you are still WAY ahead (apron 20%) in fuel cost savings with diesel.
In fact, I have located diesel fuel in the DC area that is roughly equal to PUG and we are getting at least 40-50% better fuel economy in our X5d than our old MDX. So for us, it makes no sense to ever consider a gas SUV again.
s for the Ad-blue additive, it is not "proprietary" and is required by BMW diesels as well. Covered in the 4/50 free service, but even after that, the cost through my independent mechanic is around $50 per 10,000 +/- miles. An insignificant cost differential, especially after you replace the proprietary spark plugs on a gas engine at 50k miles.
Let's see, the gas X5 MSRP starts at $47,500. The diesel X5 is $56,700. Is the diesel supposed to be equivalent to the Sport or something? Pretty big price premium compared to the base X5 gasser.
Fuel economy is 16/23 for the gasser, 19/26 for the diesel. Fuel costs in LA for the gasser would be $2,953, $2,776 for the diesel.
Those numbers are from the MPG section here at Edmunds, vary per zip code, and the slider defaults to 55% city, 45% highway, but you can change it to match your own driving habits.
Not to rain on anyones parade, but to follow in the DIY fill the windshield washer fluid container example, 2.5 gal container of "AD Blue" can range between 10-13 per or app 20-26 per 5 gal (or so) AdBlue tank. The VW T is consuming app 5 gals per 15,000 miles or .002 cents per mile: Ad Blue. It can be bought @ WalMart's.
http://www.bmwsouthcounty.com/inventory/BMW-X5-San_Diego.html?sort_order=pricel2- - - h
Boy, besides questionable math, I now have to give a lesson to an Edmund's Host on how to compare apples and apples??
Yes Steve, you can theoretically get a stripped down "base" gas model devoid of numerous standard features on the X5 3.5i Premium or Diesel models. But if you want to compare equivalent models, you need to start with the Premium model and do a few adjustments to each. If you can manage that mental challenge, you will then be in a position to conclude that the diesel engine has a $1,500 to $2,000 +/- MSRP premium over the equivalently equipped gas model. And then, if you can handle subtraction, apply the current Eco Credit, and - Bazinga! - you will conclude that the diesel is CHEAPER than the gas model. Back when the Eco-credit for mine was $4,500, it was approximately $2,800 less.
As for the fuel economy, much has been posted on forums here, there and everywhere that the actual difference between gas MPG and diesel MPG is greater than the EPA estimates. My personal experience was that our MDX needed a heavy tailwind to achieve EPA highway ratings and never came close to the EPA city crawling around inside the DC Beltway. Our X5d hits the EPA city rating with no problem and could probably exceed the EPA highway while PULLING the MDX on a trailer. You can ignore the real world and live by the EPA bible all you want, but the EPA doesn't pay my fuel bills, I do.
It's pretty easy to see your antiquated biases against diesels shining through your posts - and that's certainly your personal prerogative. But I would hope for at least a little more accuracy out of an Edmunds Host relative to price comparisons. By the way, try to find someone who has ever bought an X5 3.5i base model. According to my dealer, of the several hundred X5's they sold in 2012, no more than 3-4 were special order "base" models. They have never ordered one for dealer inventory. The average X5 3.5i Premium on the lot has a sticker well into the $60's.
Not sure how diesel fumes being an asthma trigger for my wife equates to an "antiquated bias against diesels". And then there's all the health factors people keep overlooking: (American Lung Association. World Health Organization - CNN).
"Clean diesel", even in passenger cars, is a ways off from being the norm.
(Fintail, the specs on site say premium unleaded for the X5s so I have to assume that the fuel calculator uses the required fuel).
The lib line is so ingrained in some people that they stopped thinking for themselves years ago...and probably don't even realize it.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
"It therefore does not reflect the technology changes that have been made since then," he said.
Your bias has always come through whether valid or not. Old beliefs die hard. Gas exhaust will kill you quicker than diesel.
For those so ignorant as to not compare vehicles they deserve to drive a gas hog and keep the oil companies happy. Of the 29 X5s on my local dealer's lot only 4 of the V6 gas models are under $60k. 13 of the X5 V6 models are priced from $60k to $67k. They have 8 X5 diesels in that same price range. I would say if they go by what is posted on a non dealers website they may be in for a sticker shock.