"Diesels have an intrinsic problem with greenhouse gas and particulates in the U.S.," said John O'Dell, Green Car Editor, Edmunds. "Diesels still require exhaust clean-up technologies that make them expensive. Hybrids are coming down in cost, but we may see a few more diesels as a good interim step."
The Jeep GC appeals to me visually. I am skeptical of the Italian made diesel engine. Though the Liberty CRD debacle was not the fault of the VM engine. It was the crap Chrysler put on to pass emissions in non CARB states. I think the transmission was also problematic for that engine. I hope Jeep gets it right. The domestics need a decent SUV to compete against the Germans.
It is interesting that VM Motors is 50% owned by GM and 50% owned by Fiat. Maybe GM will get their head out of their behinds and offer a decent diesel SUV.
It is interesting that VM Motors is 50% owned by GM and 50% owned by Fiat. Maybe GM will get their head out of their behinds and offer a decent diesel SUV.
Gm owned part of isuzu for a while, and had the chance to get their hands on an aray of diesels which they didn't do...
GM and Isuzu are working together again, but the focus seems to be on a next-generation pickup truck for other countries.
"GM is seen as eager to tap Isuzu's strength in Southeast Asian markets and its diesel technology, while a deal for Isuzu means it could share the burden of developing technologies." (Reuters)
I didn't want to plow through 5 models to try to figure which one the diesel might compare to. Someone thinking about an X5 is going to see a $10k difference right off the bat between the "base" X5 and the diesel though. And many will move on.
I'm guessing that most people actually shopping for a $50-$60k+ SUV will be able to handle a few mouse clicks to do the correct comparison. After all, isn't that what Edmunds business model is all about??
Not sure how diesel fumes being an asthma trigger for my wife equates to an "antiquated bias against diesels". And then there's all the health factors people keep overlooking: (American Lung Association.
I think you may have caught the headline of the article you posted and forgot to read the content? The recommendations by the American Lung Association are pretty much exactly what the clean diesel technology by Mercedes, BMW, Audi and VW follow to the letter:
So, unless your wife has been hanging around truck stops, or you just like to tailgate semis and old Ford/GM diesel pickups, the chances of her having an asthma attack driving behind my X5d are no greater than behind an X5 3.5i. My three nieces and nephews all have hereditary asthma, so I am sympathetic to the issue of dirty diesel. But given current technology, they would be better off with their faces planted on the back bumper of our X5d than the bumper of my sister in law's rumbling V8 Escalade.
We did have a good walk to town an hour ago. Even though it was ~18 degrees out. The only rig that seemed like it could be a problem was an unloaded logging truck but it wasn't putting out anything. Probably a gasser, lol, and all the old diesel clunker pickups probably wouldn't start this morning.
Particulates seem to be the biggest problem. New LEV III regs in California may even wind up giving us gasoline particulate filters.
"Attack" sounds nasty. But I am happy to "challenge" posts that are mathematically inaccurate or without research and analysis to support their position.
And yes, we do get 18-19 mpg in congested DC traffic in the X5d compared to 13+/- for our MDX under similar conditions. Maybe others have a different experience. Post away if that's the case. But there is nothing "wild" about my milage logs, as I've double checked the batteries on my HP12C calculator and they are working OK.
On the other hand, last Friday night I put a deposit on a 2014 Cayman S. Manual transmission, 2,900 lb curb weight and 7,500 rpm redline. And it runs on pure PUG. There isn't a diesel out there that would make me reconsider the Cayman. So just because I am favorably disposed towards the benefits of diesel in SUV and family sedan applications, I'm not filling up the Kool Aide jug with it and suggesting that its the perfect fuel and technology for every application.
Finally a diesel hybrid? We'll see. Lots of torque with the two "extra" electric motors - I assume each one is driving the front/rear axle and not two individual wheels.
So I took our X5d to the dealer last week to have the alternator bolt recall done. Was given a 2013 328ix loaner with 1,400 miles on the odometer. Just got off the phone with my friend who has a 2010 335d. Taken from the onboard computers, for the life of the cars:
As you can see, although very limited data, our X5d and the loaner 328ix appear to be driven in similar fashion (i.e. similar average speed) and, so far, have identical overall mpg. My friend with the 335d spends relatively more time on the highway, as is obvious from his higher average speed.
Electric motor torque off the line, diesel torque once you get going. EV city mileage, diesel highway mileage.
They say below the Touareg, let's see if they can keep it, say, under $40 grand. It would be eligible for some credits, too, which would make it competitive in price with the mainstream crossovers like the Traverse, Pilot, Explorer, etc.
Or maybe they're including the credit in the price when they say it slots below the Touareg?
Only one catch - 6 seats. I really want 7 or 8. I haul little kids around, so they can't sit in the front seats, that means I can only carry 4 kids. Doesn't cut it for me. I use all 6 rear seats once a week.
What intrigues me is that this could replace two cars for me, and serve as a city commuter and my family car.
I think the CrossBlue is longer than the Touareg. Built on the Golf chassis. Hmmmm interesting idea. Hope it is be better than the Touareg hybrid that is not even close to the TDI for mileage. Waste of space and money.
"Spectators were loudly wondering why there was “a minivan” on the off-road track. Beer cans may have been thrown in disgust.
In other GLs, that’s the spot where you might find the controls for the On/Off Road package, which includes a low-range gear set for off-highway adventures and steep boat ramps. Low range isn’t available in the diesel-powered GL350. That is probably because when you’ve got 455 pound-feet of torque at just 1,600 engine r.p.m., there aren’t many boat ramps that will stop you."
..."It posted a tad shy of 30 mpg (29.54) as most of the miles were in commute to heavy stop and go traffics
No one here even blinks."...
You left out the 40-44 mpg and 48-52 mpg figures too !!
SPINNING SPINNING SPINNING.......
There you GO AGAIN DOING the actual attacking, and in the same or very next breath saying one is attacked if one is anti diesel.
Most of us get you have a permanent burr in your saddle, Pilgrim. It's the way you ride.
It is probably a safe bet that even if you switched to diesel, you probably would not implement your understand of the diesel to be able to post much better mpg than the lower ranges.My advice would be "WHY BOTHER SWITCHING?" Save yourself the unhappiness. :shades:
N. Tahoe trip UP (ZERO to 7200 ft) in 14 degree mountain weather, 29 mpg on computer. Started with 5/8's of a tank. Kept it under 85 mph on the trip UP. So I will fill in the "flats" on the return leg to see what the R/T mpg will be.
I would have loved to see that behemoth cresting the hill with the gaping mouths. He really sells that GL350 Bluetec. Though it is a bit larger than I want as a Sequoia replacement at 201 inches. I do want two things MB offers and that would be:
Installed in the 5,467-pound GL350, the V-6 delivers relentlessly strong acceleration and managed better than 26 miles per gallon en route to my off-road adventures.
The GL may not have set a record time around the Uwharrie off-road course, but I guarantee that none of the other drivers crossed the finish line while getting a massage from their seats.
If he got 26+ MPG with the huge GL, I would think 30 MPG combined in the 500 lb lighter ML is doable.
If he got 26+ MPG with the huge GL, I would think 30 MPG combined in the 500 lb lighter ML is doable.
My independent mechanic traded in his personal older X5 gas for the ML350 Bluetec. He got a great discount on the last leftover unit of the previous model (2011?), but I believe the diesel engine is identical to the new one. He consistently gets 30 mpg+ on the highway and has hit as high as 32-33 on his weekend drives to Solomon's Island in the summer. According to him, that's a full 8-10 mpg better than his old X5 gas, even though the EPA would tell you to only expect 4-5 mpg more on the highway.
He is also a big proponent of diesel durability, having passed down his 25 year old 300D through nieces and nephews. Almost nothing on the car works anymore - radio, power windows, etc., but the engine still chugs away at 300k+ miles. He thinks the new diesel technology and engines from MB and BMW are easily good for 500k miles without a major rebuild, just in case you want to run a cross country taxi service.
In the "off roading world " it is well known the high torque, low/er revving diesels are more adapted to the applications than lower torque, higher revving gassers. It is probably because of the lack of market and after market diesel products that it is not more commonly in use.
I think "heavy stop and go" mean different things to each of us. When you're stopped, you're getting 0 mpg. Zero. If that's half the time, it can cut your average substantially.
We had a fun run in the Pine Barrens and there was this BRAT there, heavily modified, that was just incredible. They're light as heck, and with a low range are very capable. Plus they can do narrow trails because of their small size.
Getting back on topic...uh, maybe Subaru could do another one, with the diesel. :shades:
Sadly for some of us Subaru has not figured out how to put a diesel with auto transmission into their vehicles. I don't see their 2014 solution with CVT as acceptable.
Subaru will start to fill a significant hole in its model lineup when it launches an automatic version of the turbo-diesel Outback soft-roader in 12 months.
“Next year at this time we’ll have an Outback CVT diesel on sale,” Subaru Australia managing director Nick Senior confirmed at last week’s Impreza launch.
“We sell about 70 Outback diesels per month and once we add the auto we will double that quite convincingly,” he said. :sick:
I don't think I could ever get used to the fish mouth. I also think until VW Audi comes up with a 4 cylinder diesel for their small utes they will be a non starter in the USA. The UK has both the Tiguan and Q5 with several diesel options. I guess that will teach US to revolt against the King. None for you bunch of losers in America.
CVT can put a diesel right at the peak torque output and leave it there all day long. Wouldn't have to rev high like a gasser, either, so no annoying drone.
..."Call me skeptical, but I find it hard to believe"....
Trust me, it ALL works for me. What makes you the bastion/grand inquisitor of "TRUTH"? You don't even have many miles on a diesel to know or even care. You look down on the OEMS that have brought diesels to the US markets. You want a diesel in a Subaru which doesn't seem to have the wherewithal to bring one to US markets. Even if they did, ...then you REALLY have not a clue as to how well it will do and whether or not you will really like it enough to buy it. So really it is easy to see getting a diesel is a remote event @ BEST.
As I have said more than once, I am fine with you or the majority of gasser drivers for that matter paying more per mile driven fuel or probably more importantly what fuel mileage YOU do in fact get. To my mind it is just gravy.
Folks like yourself that need a Mini van for people and stuff are really screwed with no diesel options. The EU has the VW Touran 7 passenger mini van that gets 55 MPG IMP/ 46 MPG US combined. The oil companies would not stand for them to be imported into the USA. If 0-60 MPH is important they have a bigger diesel option that only gets 41 MPG US.
The Touran is based on the Golf, making it a bit small for North American tastes, but perfect for Europe and Asia, where high fuel prices and tight spaces mean that a car like a Dodge Caravan is totally unsuitable
A nice way to say it is not for porky Americans. Do they have miniature people in the EU?
This may be the perfect van for hauling lots of kids. I like the seating arrangement. They can play board games rather than watching videos all the time. And 30+ MPG on those long trips. Also great for commuters.
The Caravelle is one of Volkswagen's large people-movers, separated from the Transporter shuttle by the different seating layout. The Caravelle is the more business-orientated design with a three-seat bench and two individual seats facing each other in two rows. Another passenger seat faces forwards alongside the driver's seat, making it a seven-seater in total.
Fuelly has people getting 22 to 26 mpg for the new diesel Touaregs, are we to believe he beats even the best average by several mpgs in heavy traffic?
Someone has to play Devil's Advocate and try to keep him honest.
I know, he only drives down hill.
Touran is ok, lots of embassies around here so I see them a lot. Renault Espace also. Friend of a friend had a diesel manual one. Nice to be able to bring any car you want.
Fuelly has people getting 22 to 26 mpg for the new diesel Touaregs, are we to believe he beats even the best average by several mpgs in heavy traffic?
I am looking at Fuelly and they have 32 owners of the 2012 Touareg getting from 22-30 MPG. I accept his 30 MPG combined as in the group. The average is way above EPA rating.
In your quest to distort, under the false mantle of "honesty", you are leaving out the 30 mpg average (17,000 miles) without trying. :P Indeed that was the first time I saw that Fuelly 2012 VW T TDI postings when Gagrice posted it. There was NO effort to BEAT anybody posting on that web site. But,... your distortions are par for the course. For a guy that says he gets a lot of smiles per mile, you sure come across as an unhappy sort. :lemon:
...."A least you said per mile driven fuel this time. "...
Alas, another distortion, I have consistently acknowledged when the prices per gal of diesel, RUG, PUG were/are higher, lower, same, etc. Even you know that.
Cost per mile driven: fuel is a formula, I have posted it more than once.
“The fact that there’s a world crunch on for the use of diesel and fuel oils at this time of year especially so all of that is combining to keep our diesel prices much higher.”
Dixon says every three barrels of crude oil produces two barrels of gasoline and one barrel of diesel, and the equation can’t be changed.
He says unless the demand for diesel drops, the price won’t either."
And yeah, the Canadians are comparing regular to diesel.
One local expert says this is the biggest difference in gas and diesel pump prices seen in Alberta in decades.
Funny that it corresponds with the rise in popularity of diesel cars in North America. If there is a shortage of diesel in the Americas we should not be selling it to others. Again the USA gets screwed. Block diesel vehicle sales and sell the diesel to other countries where the emission standards are less stringent. So how does that help the environment?
U.S. exports of distillate fuel (which includes diesel) reached a record 656,000 barrels per day (bbl/d) in 2010 and have grown every year since 2003. That trend continued during the first six months (the most recent for which data are available) of 2011, with diesel exports averaging 730,000 bbl/d, a 32% increase over an average of 554,000 bbl/d during the same period in 2010.
Increases in U.S. distillate exports began as global diesel consumption growth outpaced growth in consumption of other petroleum products over the past decade. According to the International Energy Agency, from 2000 through 2008 (the last year for which a complete set of global data exists), global diesel (also called gasoil in some parts of the world) consumption increased by 23%, while consumption of other petroleum products grew by 7%.
The other gotcha is that diesel car owners are competing with lots of other users. Not just the big rigs, but home heating oil and lots of other forms of transport.
Who else uses gasoline? Some generators and lots of yard equipment, but if demand spikes, people can drive less and prices will fall. I don't know, but I doubt that using lots of kerosene or jet fuel would affect gas prices at the pump much.
That's not happening with diesel - you can drive less but you still have to compete with the use of diesel in trucks to get your milk and bread to the store and all that corn downriver and that coal railed the west coast.
I suppose you could ask the multinationals to quit exporting the stuff.
CA taxes diesel far more than they do gasoline even though it fulfills the STATE'S stated goals of using LESS FUEL. Seems like no good deed goes unpunished. But the realities have been well discussed on this board.
Another is anyone can look up the spot prices. Here are the prices for YESTERDAY.
D2 (15 ppm) $3.0613 PUG $2.9966 RUG $2.7225
.06 or so difference between PUG and ULSD. This is going to I am sure, dissuade some one from doing the math between a premium user getting 22 mpg from a diesel user getting say 28 mpg and not seeing that per mile driven: fuel premium costs more? Works for me !! I am here in N Tahoe with a Acura MDX driver who is getting so far 21 on the way up to my 29. She and I are both just fine with her paying 34% more per mile driven: FUEL.
Of course that is at spot prices. I only DREAM about paying spot prices. However the RETAIL price conversion is 31% more (3.95/3.73).
He said most of the driving was in "heavy traffics"
Heavy traffic in CA is not always stop and go. In fact most of the time it means 75 MPH with about a car length between you and the guy ahead of you and behind you. It moves a lot of people at a high rate of speed until some jerk screws up and slows down the whole freeway. We followed a buddy of mine to Simi Valley on the North side of Los Angeles. He got us into the commuter lane and never went under 75 MPH in his Prius on the 405 freeway. It was extremely heavy traffic the whole way. I hate driving up there. I got my usual 15 MPG in the gas hog Sequoia. A Toyota Land Cruiser like those sold in the rest of the World would have gotten us over 30 MPG. I just noticed in the UK Toyota does not even offer a gas Land Cruiser. Two different diesel models. The RAV4 has two diesel and one gas model.
..."He said most of the driving was in "heavy traffics" [sic]."...
You seem to be on the endless distortion loop. I get the feeling in the best case it is hard to understand 30 mpg AVERAGE, even as Gagrice understands it as "average" . As for mpg in "heavy traffics" I stated what it was for those scenarios.
I just confirmed 20 mpg for the Acura MDX, and so it appears I was a tad optimistic @ 22. (29 still the same for VW T TDI diesel product "COMPETITORS") . So 45% better (diesel product) is the fuel mileage difference.
I am just fine with what folks opinions are and what they decide to do. As Habitat1 put it, or concept to the effect: "HE is the one paying the fuel bills, thank you very much."
But on the other hand, for those ok with punching numbers into a cheap calculator (use an expensive one if that better suits). Given 100,000 miles with a 20/22 or 30 mpg AVERAGE = 5,000 / 4,546 gals vs 3,334 gals consumed . times one's cost of PUG/RUG ULSD. Fuel companies are already crying that US gasoline consumption is way OFF. :lemon: :shades: I guess that is code for higher RUG/PUG and electrical prices !??
..."MDX still has a lower total cost of ownership, and that's what matters. "...
While that is your opinion from your perspective of non ownership of the MDX , nor the VW T TDI, in both our cases, it remains to be seen. I was told the VW T TDI purchase price was far less than the Acura MDX. I also find insurance costs are cheaper. YOU of course think 45% more in fuel consumption is CHEAPER. I do understand that the potential 10 year old resale prices on BOTH will be pretty good. Will let you know in 10 years IF I sell it or some one makes me a "make me ecstatic" offer. I think I am being stalked on the 03 VW Jetta TDI with 180,000 miles. I have had 5 cards and notes stuck to the windshield, asking me to call to sell. Hey first 16,000 gets it !!
Incorrect, that wasn't my opinion, that's from Edmunds TCO information.
Fuel consumption is a tiny, tiny portion of overall ownership costs. It hardly even moves the needle when you look at the big picture (depreciation, insurance, etc).
Comments
Hybrid or diesel? The battle drives on (chicagotribune.com)
And if this turns out like the Liberty CRD, it'll be game, set and match.
Fiat's Italian-made diesel engine to power Jeep Grand Cherokee (Detroit Free Press)
It is interesting that VM Motors is 50% owned by GM and 50% owned by Fiat. Maybe GM will get their head out of their behinds and offer a decent diesel SUV.
Gm owned part of isuzu for a while, and had the chance to get their hands on an aray of diesels which they didn't do...
"GM is seen as eager to tap Isuzu's strength in Southeast Asian markets and its diesel technology, while a deal for Isuzu means it could share the burden of developing technologies." (Reuters)
I'm guessing that most people actually shopping for a $50-$60k+ SUV will be able to handle a few mouse clicks to do the correct comparison. After all, isn't that what Edmunds business model is all about??
Not sure how diesel fumes being an asthma trigger for my wife equates to an "antiquated bias against diesels". And then there's all the health factors people keep overlooking: (American Lung Association.
I think you may have caught the headline of the article you posted and forgot to read the content? The recommendations by the American Lung Association are pretty much exactly what the clean diesel technology by Mercedes, BMW, Audi and VW follow to the letter:
- Diesel Particulate Filter
- Closed Crankcase Ventilation System
- Diesel Oxidation Catalyst
- Diesel Multi-stage Filter
So, unless your wife has been hanging around truck stops, or you just like to tailgate semis and old Ford/GM diesel pickups, the chances of her having an asthma attack driving behind my X5d are no greater than behind an X5 3.5i. My three nieces and nephews all have hereditary asthma, so I am sympathetic to the issue of dirty diesel. But given current technology, they would be better off with their faces planted on the back bumper of our X5d than the bumper of my sister in law's rumbling V8 Escalade.
Particulates seem to be the biggest problem. New LEV III regs in California may even wind up giving us gasoline particulate filters.
I love it, the host asks a question, gets accused of bias and old school thinking.
Gimme a break.
This is not an open discussion. You're either pro-diesel, else you get attacked.
Yet nobody questions the *WILDLY* optimistic MPG for congested urban driving that has been claimed here.
And yes, we do get 18-19 mpg in congested DC traffic in the X5d compared to 13+/- for our MDX under similar conditions. Maybe others have a different experience. Post away if that's the case. But there is nothing "wild" about my milage logs, as I've double checked the batteries on my HP12C calculator and they are working OK.
On the other hand, last Friday night I put a deposit on a 2014 Cayman S. Manual transmission, 2,900 lb curb weight and 7,500 rpm redline. And it runs on pure PUG. There isn't a diesel out there that would make me reconsider the Cayman. So just because I am favorably disposed towards the benefits of diesel in SUV and family sedan applications, I'm not filling up the Kool Aide jug with it and suggesting that its the perfect fuel and technology for every application.
Does this sound familiar?
It posted a tad shy of 30 mpg (29.54) as most of the miles were in commute to heavy stop and go traffics
No one here even blinks.
To slot between the Tiguan and Touareg. Wonder if it really will get a plug-in hybrid + diesel powertrain?
2013 328ix: 1,434 miles, 28.3 MPH average, 22.8 mpg average. (EPA 22/33 - 26 comb)
2012 X5d: 2,645 miles, 27.9 MPH average, 22.8 mpg average (EPA 19/26 -22 comb)
2010 335d: 34,410 miles, 39.5 MPH average, 31.9 mpg average (EPA 23/36 - 27 comb)
As you can see, although very limited data, our X5d and the loaner 328ix appear to be driven in similar fashion (i.e. similar average speed) and, so far, have identical overall mpg. My friend with the 335d spends relatively more time on the highway, as is obvious from his higher average speed.
It's more than a hybrid, it's a Plug-in.
Electric motor torque off the line, diesel torque once you get going. EV city mileage, diesel highway mileage.
They say below the Touareg, let's see if they can keep it, say, under $40 grand. It would be eligible for some credits, too, which would make it competitive in price with the mainstream crossovers like the Traverse, Pilot, Explorer, etc.
Or maybe they're including the credit in the price when they say it slots below the Touareg?
Only one catch - 6 seats. I really want 7 or 8. I haul little kids around, so they can't sit in the front seats, that means I can only carry 4 kids. Doesn't cut it for me. I use all 6 rear seats once a week.
What intrigues me is that this could replace two cars for me, and serve as a city commuter and my family car.
In other GLs, that’s the spot where you might find the controls for the On/Off Road package, which includes a low-range gear set for off-highway adventures and steep boat ramps. Low range isn’t available in the diesel-powered GL350. That is probably because when you’ve got 455 pound-feet of torque at just 1,600 engine r.p.m., there aren’t many boat ramps that will stop you."
King of the Hill, Indeed, With a Price to Match
No one here even blinks."...
You left out the 40-44 mpg and 48-52 mpg figures too !!
SPINNING SPINNING SPINNING.......
There you GO AGAIN DOING the actual attacking, and in the same or very next breath saying one is attacked if one is anti diesel.
Most of us get you have a permanent burr in your saddle, Pilgrim. It's the way you ride.
It is probably a safe bet that even if you switched to diesel, you probably would not implement your understand of the diesel to be able to post much better mpg than the lower ranges.My advice would be "WHY BOTHER SWITCHING?" Save yourself the unhappiness. :shades:
N. Tahoe trip UP (ZERO to 7200 ft) in 14 degree mountain weather, 29 mpg on computer. Started with 5/8's of a tank. Kept it under 85 mph on the trip UP. So I will fill in the "flats" on the return leg to see what the R/T mpg will be.
Installed in the 5,467-pound GL350, the V-6 delivers relentlessly strong acceleration and managed better than 26 miles per gallon en route to my off-road adventures.
The GL may not have set a record time around the Uwharrie off-road course, but I guarantee that none of the other drivers crossed the finish line while getting a massage from their seats.
If he got 26+ MPG with the huge GL, I would think 30 MPG combined in the 500 lb lighter ML is doable.
My independent mechanic traded in his personal older X5 gas for the ML350 Bluetec. He got a great discount on the last leftover unit of the previous model (2011?), but I believe the diesel engine is identical to the new one. He consistently gets 30 mpg+ on the highway and has hit as high as 32-33 on his weekend drives to Solomon's Island in the summer. According to him, that's a full 8-10 mpg better than his old X5 gas, even though the EPA would tell you to only expect 4-5 mpg more on the highway.
He is also a big proponent of diesel durability, having passed down his 25 year old 300D through nieces and nephews. Almost nothing on the car works anymore - radio, power windows, etc., but the engine still chugs away at 300k+ miles. He thinks the new diesel technology and engines from MB and BMW are easily good for 500k miles without a major rebuild, just in case you want to run a cross country taxi service.
Nothing you couldn't do in a Crown Vic. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aJfQpHt9lY
Call me skeptical, but I find it hard to believe.
Getting back on topic...uh, maybe Subaru could do another one, with the diesel. :shades:
They went with the supercharged V6 for the US-spec model.
Subaru will start to fill a significant hole in its model lineup when it launches an automatic version of the turbo-diesel Outback soft-roader in 12 months.
“Next year at this time we’ll have an Outback CVT diesel on sale,” Subaru Australia managing director Nick Senior confirmed at last week’s Impreza launch.
“We sell about 70 Outback diesels per month and once we add the auto we will double that quite convincingly,” he said. :sick:
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/subaru-diesels-to-get-automatic-transm- ission-20120227-1txa5.html
I think that setup could work pretty well.
I would test drive an Outback diesel if it shows up before I get antsy and buy something else.
Trust me, it ALL works for me. What makes you the bastion/grand inquisitor of "TRUTH"? You don't even have many miles on a diesel to know or even care. You look down on the OEMS that have brought diesels to the US markets. You want a diesel in a Subaru which doesn't seem to have the wherewithal to bring one to US markets. Even if they did, ...then you REALLY have not a clue as to how well it will do and whether or not you will really like it enough to buy it. So really it is easy to see getting a diesel is a remote event @ BEST.
As I have said more than once, I am fine with you or the majority of gasser drivers for that matter paying more per mile driven fuel or probably more importantly what fuel mileage YOU do in fact get. To my mind it is just gravy.
I get more smiles per mile. :P
The Touran is based on the Golf, making it a bit small for North American tastes, but perfect for Europe and Asia, where high fuel prices and tight spaces mean that a car like a Dodge Caravan is totally unsuitable
A nice way to say it is not for porky Americans. Do they have miniature people in the EU?
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/06/new-volkswagen-touran-7-seater-gets-5- 1-3-mpg.html
The Caravelle is one of Volkswagen's large people-movers, separated from the Transporter shuttle by the different seating layout. The Caravelle is the more business-orientated design with a three-seat bench and two individual seats facing each other in two rows. Another passenger seat faces forwards alongside the driver's seat, making it a seven-seater in total.
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/cartestreports/2012039.html
Someone has to play Devil's Advocate and try to keep him honest.
I know, he only drives down hill.
Touran is ok, lots of embassies around here so I see them a lot. Renault Espace also. Friend of a friend had a diesel manual one. Nice to be able to bring any car you want.
Lets see a Mazda5 SkyActv or SkyActiv-D.
I am looking at Fuelly and they have 32 owners of the 2012 Touareg getting from 22-30 MPG. I accept his 30 MPG combined as in the group. The average is way above EPA rating.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/touareg/2012/diesel%20v6
...."A least you said per mile driven fuel this time. "...
Alas, another distortion, I have consistently acknowledged when the prices per gal of diesel, RUG, PUG were/are higher, lower, same, etc. Even you know that.
Cost per mile driven: fuel is a formula, I have posted it more than once.
“The fact that there’s a world crunch on for the use of diesel and fuel oils at this time of year especially so all of that is combining to keep our diesel prices much higher.”
Dixon says every three barrels of crude oil produces two barrels of gasoline and one barrel of diesel, and the equation can’t be changed.
He says unless the demand for diesel drops, the price won’t either."
And yeah, the Canadians are comparing regular to diesel.
Local expert says difference in gas, diesel prices, is biggest in 30 years (ctvnews.ca)
Funny that it corresponds with the rise in popularity of diesel cars in North America. If there is a shortage of diesel in the Americas we should not be selling it to others. Again the USA gets screwed. Block diesel vehicle sales and sell the diesel to other countries where the emission standards are less stringent. So how does that help the environment?
U.S. exports of distillate fuel (which includes diesel) reached a record 656,000 barrels per day (bbl/d) in 2010 and have grown every year since 2003. That trend continued during the first six months (the most recent for which data are available) of 2011, with diesel exports averaging 730,000 bbl/d, a 32% increase over an average of 554,000 bbl/d during the same period in 2010.
Increases in U.S. distillate exports began as global diesel consumption growth outpaced growth in consumption of other petroleum products over the past decade. According to the International Energy Agency, from 2000 through 2008 (the last year for which a complete set of global data exists), global diesel (also called gasoil in some parts of the world) consumption increased by 23%, while consumption of other petroleum products grew by 7%.
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=2890
Who else uses gasoline? Some generators and lots of yard equipment, but if demand spikes, people can drive less and prices will fall. I don't know, but I doubt that using lots of kerosene or jet fuel would affect gas prices at the pump much.
That's not happening with diesel - you can drive less but you still have to compete with the use of diesel in trucks to get your milk and bread to the store and all that corn downriver and that coal railed the west coast.
I suppose you could ask the multinationals to quit exporting the stuff.
D2 (15 ppm) $3.0613
PUG $2.9966
RUG $2.7225
.06 or so difference between PUG and ULSD. This is going to I am sure, dissuade some one from doing the math between a premium user getting 22 mpg from a diesel user getting say 28 mpg and not seeing that per mile driven: fuel premium costs more? Works for me !! I am here in N Tahoe with a Acura MDX driver who is getting so far 21 on the way up to my 29. She and I are both just fine with her paying 34% more per mile driven: FUEL.
Of course that is at spot prices. I only DREAM about paying spot prices. However the RETAIL price conversion is 31% more (3.95/3.73).
He said most of the driving was in "heavy traffics" [sic].
Considerably, even with a boost in output and gain in efficiency.
They don't seem to have a consistent global strategy. Let's see if the idea of offering more affordable diesels spreads.
Heavy traffic in CA is not always stop and go. In fact most of the time it means 75 MPH with about a car length between you and the guy ahead of you and behind you. It moves a lot of people at a high rate of speed until some jerk screws up and slows down the whole freeway. We followed a buddy of mine to Simi Valley on the North side of Los Angeles. He got us into the commuter lane and never went under 75 MPH in his Prius on the 405 freeway. It was extremely heavy traffic the whole way. I hate driving up there. I got my usual 15 MPG in the gas hog Sequoia. A Toyota Land Cruiser like those sold in the rest of the World would have gotten us over 30 MPG. I just noticed in the UK Toyota does not even offer a gas Land Cruiser. Two different diesel models. The RAV4 has two diesel and one gas model.
You seem to be on the endless distortion loop. I get the feeling in the best case it is hard to understand 30 mpg AVERAGE, even as Gagrice understands it as "average" . As for mpg in "heavy traffics" I stated what it was for those scenarios.
I just confirmed 20 mpg for the Acura MDX, and so it appears I was a tad optimistic @ 22. (29 still the same for VW T TDI diesel product "COMPETITORS") . So 45% better (diesel product) is the fuel mileage difference.
I am just fine with what folks opinions are and what they decide to do. As Habitat1 put it, or concept to the effect: "HE is the one paying the fuel bills, thank you very much."
But on the other hand, for those ok with punching numbers into a cheap calculator (use an expensive one if that better suits). Given 100,000 miles with a 20/22 or 30 mpg AVERAGE = 5,000 / 4,546 gals vs 3,334 gals consumed . times one's cost of PUG/RUG ULSD. Fuel companies are already crying that US gasoline consumption is way OFF.
Lately I've been gently pushed along by unicorns, so I have not used any gas at all. My MPG is infinite. It's true.
There's always a trade-off, in this case, uh, "emissions".
While that is your opinion from your perspective of non ownership of the MDX , nor the VW T TDI, in both our cases, it remains to be seen. I was told the VW T TDI purchase price was far less than the Acura MDX. I also find insurance costs are cheaper. YOU of course think 45% more in fuel consumption is CHEAPER. I do understand that the potential 10 year old resale prices on BOTH will be pretty good. Will let you know in 10 years IF I sell it or some one makes me a "make me ecstatic" offer. I think I am being stalked on the 03 VW Jetta TDI with 180,000 miles. I have had 5 cards and notes stuck to the windshield, asking me to call to sell. Hey first 16,000 gets it !!
Fuel consumption is a tiny, tiny portion of overall ownership costs. It hardly even moves the needle when you look at the big picture (depreciation, insurance, etc).
..."Fuel consumption is a tiny, tiny portion of overall ownership costs."...
Absolutely, MDX fuel costs only 45% more !!!!! (per mile driven: fuel. But I have already said that,....already.
Well I have mentioned the depreciation and insurance for both. YOU are going to have to detail the etc.
Even comparing TCO of the X5 gasser vs. diesel it was not enough to make the overall TCO cheaper until incentives were added.