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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Seems like there used to be light duty plow that hooked to Subaru sized cars a decade or two ago. For a Prius, you'd need the electric blower option. For a TDI, you'd want the flame thrower version.:-)
The guy with the Kubota said his wife has only gotten stuck once in the snow. Be nice to have a smidge bit more ground clearance. Oh, and his problematic diesel pickup was purchased used and he should have known better. It was a bit tricky to start in warm weather when he test drove but he thought he would be able to nurse it along.
(And the formatting issues have been reported).
The macro point here is/are hybrids are having a very hard time finding its way into both national policy driven and practical applications. Now since I am acquainted with plug in electric towing applications, (39 years ago as a minimum) we are really talking, going on MULTIPLE generations.
As one who works part time delivering pizzas, I agree with your statement. Currently, I drive an '06 Saturn ION that gets between 23 and 25 MPG with mostly city driving. (I work from home during the day, so the car is used primarily for delivery and other in-town errand running).
I've often thought a Volt would be a great delivery vehicle. My shifts are usually 2-4 hours long, and I drive between 40-80 miles a shift - so, most of the time, I'd be on electric power and use just a little bit of gas.
A Prius C is rated at 53/50, so would get 2x the mileage I'm currently seeing.
However, I can't justify spending $20-35K for something new just for this purpose.
To plug into your post, (yes I know...) one of the ways DIESELS' are "DIS" incentivized IS economic. It would seem the same tool in the quiver is being used by the same regulatory arm to DISINCENTIVIZE hybrids, even as they give hybrids the so called "blessings" and diesels the "curse".
The DISINCENTIVIZATION can be vertically and horizontally integrated.
So for example, if I bought a Tesla and wanted to put in a home and office charger, the sunk or overhead costs would easily be 10,000. This would not be counting permit costs. KWH costs would exceed .29 cents and is locked stepped to rise.(I am sure this comes as a surprise)
OK want to be even MORE envirocon? 30,000 per station to set up a passive solar station in each location. Now because of the increased scale, IF you could indeed get permits for those locations, AGAIN the silliness goes on and on.
Of course those very same envirocons would be at the municipal meetings PROTESTING YOUR proposed envirocon PROJECT !!!! The (French style) anti business attitude is already incorporated into our regulations. Makes one wonder what this would do to a $10.00 piazza?
Then again, the oil guys think that there's enough oil and gas in the ground just in Alaska to run the world forever.:-)
Study Predicts at Least 5 Million Electric Vehicles by 2035
Indeed a case has been made that passenger vehicles have improved to the point where ANY new vehicle (gasser/diesel/hybrid/plug in) has a minimum of 100,000 miles as the first "major tune point" aka, BETTER.
Naturally, these statements sound good, but are in fact full of potholes.
So for example in the first 100k miles on a diesel, I can expect to do a min of 4 oil and filter changes.
Something else I have always been curious about, although knew the answer during the years I ran the south eastern seaboard in the truck a couple decades ago..is..are there any States that charge sales tax on meals? Here we only get a break (on sales tax of 8%...we STILL have to pay GST of 5%) if it is under $4.00. One cent over 4 bucks and we pay the full 13% on top.
Becomes a pretty BIG deal if you are at KFC or Swiss Chalet (wor$e) and you're picking up for a feast. You could literally buy extra dinners..plural...just with what is paid extra in tax :sick:
The answer to your second question is selective and depends on STATE. We went to MC Dee's in OR for a .99 egg mc muffin (2 actually) and got back .02 cents on two dollars in payment. Some states will have the vendor ask: for here or to go? To go, .... NO tax. Sit down or here, YES tax. Opaque to the customer some states see cooking as value added and may impose a tax that you pay and dont really know that you do even as food is not supposed to be taxed. And yes, I agree with you, it IS a BIG DEAL on seemingly such a SMALL point.
Here, places like Swiss Chalet..you have those right? They are owned by...forget...but the same owners as Harvey's..will charge you more even pre-tax for sitdown meals than togo.
Kara foods I think??
As for the Swiss Chalet South Tahoe, CA DID have one for oh,...(I am told) 60 or so years. Sadly IT closed. I am not too much up on the actual ownership.
The above quote OBVIOUSLY was not vetted. MB might be first to market for a so called small "CUV/SUV"
Sort of an interesting example, VW Touareg also comes in a (supercharged) gasser hybrid. It is app 18k more than the TDI. The power approaches a V8 (428 # ft vs a weak 406 # ft TDI
but, we don't pay any tax on clothes. go figure.
and still some of the lowest gas taxes of any state.
too bad we have the highest property taxes in the nation. I would gladly drop 10K from my property taxes in exchange for sales tax on my underwear.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If America would build a solid small 1/2 ton pick up truck with a straight 4 cylinder or 6 straight cylinder diesel engine, I would buy it. Tomorrow. The Indian company, Mahindra, wanted to import just such a diesel truck, but they could not pass the EPA requiremnts. It was rumored the test was performed while carrying a payload of 100 environmentalists and attornies.
What up GM? If you build it, it will sell. I'll take a dozen.
That is a big factor in my looking for a place to move from CA. All our taxes are high here. Though Prop 13 kind of protects the home owner from bubbles in home values. You may move to a state that has no income tax like TX and find they have very high property taxes. Look at the positive. Your high property taxes are a direct write-off from the Feds. Sales taxes are not a write-off. We pay 9.75% sales tax on food that is prepared. Not at the grocery store. Just about everything else is taxed including gas. Making US 1 or 2 for high fuel tax.
I have been screaming that on Edmunds for 16 years. The D3 have been protected by the Chicken tax on small PU trucks and CA has successfully held back small diesel engines. Which tells US fuel economy in this country is not a factor to the folks running the show.
Welcome to the forum.......:-)
What configuration would you like to see in a small American PU? (and I mean an all American diesel, not some Italian made clang banger as in the Liberty)
We may have to build our own...
I know my TDI cost a hefty additional $1800 upfront, but, it has paid dividends every day since. Savings in fuel costs paid for the vehicle and any fuel consumed in less than 100K. (Cost avoidance/savings in going from 17 mpg to 50 mpg was significant)
My like for like (4800 to 4974#) SUV for CUV (14-17 mpg to 29 to 32 mpg) spans 27 years (hope for change) has so called significant difference in FE (12 to 15 mpg vs 30 mpg) 100% BETTER FE (50% savings). Of course a few to many on this board has labeled this INsignificant.
Now both of the 90's TLC SUV's have clicked 200K + miles, so lets just use 225k each or 450,000 miles @ 15-30 mpg. Over the course of these two SUV's 450,000 miles, I have used 30,000 gals vs 15,000 gals that I would rather it had been.
Those same folks, labeling it insignificant can punch in the numbers @ the current RUG/PUG/D2 prices to see how insignificant 60,000 dollars might be to their budgets.
At least in a big truck or SUV or 6 passenger sedan, you're hauling weight or people, and can take advantage of larger diesels, to offset these disadvantages.
(leaving out my TDI results as I have no results for 180,000 miles in a GASSER 2003 VW Jetta) I have of course posted 38-42 mpg in a Honda Civic, but I think we both would agree those are FAR different cars.
Thank you for YOUR vote of confidence, as even I do not think I could get 50 mpg on a GASSER VW Jetta 2003 for a consistent 180,000 miles !! Indeed all I did for the diesel VW Jetta 2003 was understand the parameters ( that particular diesel but turns out to be most to all diesels) and driven AGGRESSIVELY in them. So in truth, I really was able to do FAR better, (again I swag 52 to 55) even as I only posted app 50 mpg. Another way of saying that would be (I swag) that if I drove the VW Jetta 03 GASSER like I did the diesel I (swag) I would have done far worse than 27.5 mpg.
The chicken tax is a 25% tariff on potato starch, dextrin, brandy, and light trucks imposed in 1963 by the United States under President Lyndon B. Johnson in response to tariffs placed by France and West Germany on importation of U.S. chicken.
Eventually, the tariffs on potato starch, dextrin, and brandy were lifted,[4] but over the next 48 years the light truck tax ossified, remaining in place to protect U.S. domestic automakers from foreign light truck production (e.g., from Japan and Thailand).[5] Though concern remains about its repeal,[6][7] a 2003 Cato Institute study called the tariff "a policy in search of a rationale."[4]
As an unintended consequence several importers of light trucks have circumvented the tariff via loopholes—including Ford (ostensibly a company the tax was designed to protect), which imports the Transit Connect light trucks as "passenger vehicles" to the U.S. from Turkey and immediately strips and shreds portions of their interiors in a warehouse outside Baltimore.[
MT likes the Jeep EcoDiesel SLIGHTLY better.
For me, the question is whether or not the $20k extra stuff is really worth $12 to $15k MORE? If I were chosing again today, the dynamics really haven't changed much. As Gagrice has mentioned in an earlier post, Jeep ETDI does not offer as many ETDI variants.
Another is Jeep EcoDiesel was clearly designed for more serious off roaring as befitting its American off road DNA. The tester even acknowledges that 99% of likely Jeep CTDI buyers will probably NOT engage in that level of SERIOUS off roaring. Touareg started out as a serious as a heart attack off road (Dakar type) vehicle that oh by the ways can seriously cruse the Autobahn. Due to customer input, it has redesigned a few times and has morfed into a serious mostly on road, albeit autobahn cruiser that can do some serious off roaring. Even at that the Jeep eTDI only slightly beats out the Touareg.
Its all good ! However to me the more choice the merrier !!
So buying fuels @ a 96150 resort location: 3.69 RUG/3.89 PUG/3.89 D2
The price per mile driven are:
PUG (3.89/27.6 mpg)= .141 cents per mile driven
D2 (3.89/42.3 mpg)= .092 cents per mile driven
RUG being (also) 53.3% MORE per mile driven.
I am thinking you are not thinking or even really saying they are equal, but I am projecting here.
So for the average driver it's about 160 gallons a year difference.
So clearly there is no great advantage to owning a TDI vs. a gas engine equivalent because the payoff is too long.
There has been HUGE cut backs in (US) consumer use, in bought RUG/PUG, as prices have hit record levels. Indeed if the reelected BO administations has its way ever closer to $10.00 per gal RUG/PUG. Part of the (food chains) legislative to regulatory call for even higher prices per (gallonage) or a tax on MILEAGE is due to the decrease revenues (gallonage) in even higher cost per mile driven costs !!!! ???? Not to get political but the mideast as long since been chosen as the bellweather of stability or lack there of , on the issue.
So yes, it is an agree to disagree, even as I understand 95% of the passenger vehicle fleet owners will pay more per mile driven. Basically there are HUGE DISCONNECTS. (the talk does not follow the walk or the walk does not follow the talk).
So in effect (given the diesel vs gasser Golf example), I am just one of the outliers (less than 5%) that has chosen to pay less per mile driven, acutally USE LESS "gallonage", as most folks (95% of the vehicle fleet that own gassers) chose to pay more and actually use MORE gallonage (55% MORE) : specific to the example 53%+ MORE.
I am ok with that, as are most of the folks that chose to pay more seem to be.
I had to pay off $236 in extra cost/s for the 2003 VW Jetta TDI, over the 1.8 turbo gasser. Again, just running the numbers on edmunds.com, the TDI resale values are $1,435 TI, $1,653 PP, $2,037 DC MORE for the TDI. Defacto those figures will turn out to be an INVESTMENT??? Right now the return is 608%/10 years or 61% a year. I wish I could do that in the stock market !!!!
This is not even counting the extra cost of fuel difference. So @ today's prices $3.89, $3.89, 27.6mpg/42.3 mpg/180,000 miles (gallonage) is 6,522 - 4,255 gals or 2,267 gals (3.89) MORE or $8,818 more.
So in that sense, you are 100% correct (for that 95% of US gasser owners). Most gassers owners are willing (to project past the VW Golf gassers case) willing to pay $10,000+ MORE for the same mileage (180,000) driven.
I bought my Prius in the fall of 2010 when gas prices were dropping so I got a great deal. I didn't buy it for the mpg [nice bonus], I wanted a roomy hatchback with comfy seats. I probably will never live long enough to break even considering I could have bought a Versa for 7k less. I didn't like the Nissan or any other hatch on the market. Personal preference. Critics hammer the way it handles but it drives fine for me. Smooth, quiet comfortable. I doubt anyone's lifestyle is improved from an economic standpoint by driving a VW diesel vs a VW gasser.
The U. S. government doesn't set the price of gasoline and can't really affect it very much. If the office of president were abolished tomorrow, it wouldn't affect the price of gasoline.
RE: Resale value of diesels ----depends on the manufacturer
RE: "The Payoff" --- 12,000 miles per year over 10 years saves a TDI owner about $6500 in fuel, so the first 5 years are for paying off the extra cost of the diesel engine, and the next five years are actually "savings".
So in ten years you save about $3200 in fuel costs, or $320 a year.