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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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I'm ignoring purchase price - most new minivans cost more than a loaded Prius V fwiw.
I bought my Prius in the fall of 2010 when gas prices were dropping so I got a great deal. I didn't buy it for the mpg [nice bonus], I wanted a roomy hatchback with comfy seats. I probably will never live long enough to break even considering I could have bought a Versa for 7k less. I didn't like the Nissan or any other hatch on the market. Personal preference. Critics hammer the way it handles but it drives fine for me. Smooth, quiet comfortable. I doubt anyone's lifestyle is improved from an economic standpoint by driving a VW diesel vs a VW gasser."...
I can see why if the (various) economics of the gas/diesel transactions are ignored, why one can come to the conclusion/s one does. One of the things/ issues I find entertaining from some to all of those very same people is the minor complaining to thoughts of financial armaggeddon on the fluctuations of RUG prices, AND how most folks say they will not switch to D2 because ( per gal) it costs SLIGHTLY more. This is of course in the context of (example) RUG/PUG costs (per mile driven) being 55% MORE.
As an FYI to the site @ large, perceptible DB change is app 2 db. I truly do not know if there is/are a 2 db difference between like- model diesel/gassers. Now my admittedly unmeasured, but anecdotal SOTP feel is the gasser is noisier through the torque band width. I think the difference here is really between the engine design as the FULL torque is available @ lower rpm in a diesel, vs at higher (noisier) higher rpm for a gasser. The additional function is that max hp on a diesel is not as useful in terms of full torque. In a gasser full torque can be useful and at much higher RPM, aka noisier.
Normally, the MB edges out to outright wins over VW in the customer satisfaction comparison. It would have given you a far better basis of comparison, if you took the GASSER 2013 Passat to see if the "awfulness" was across diesel/RUG/PUG, or if it was just the VW Passat that failed your metric and preferences.
My take on German cars is that they are designed more for the road feel feedback a tad better than say higher end Japanese models and makes who prefer it as "tomb like" as possible.
More in line is the VW T TDI @ 4974#'s with my posted 32 mpg vs 1994/1996 TLC @ 4800#'s getting 15 mpg. or 113% better FE. (6 cylinder BOTH)
There are a few folks that continue to go on record saying that IT ( 32 mpg vs 15 mpg, 113% BETTER) is IN significant. RUG is after all, cheaper than diesel
$3.69 RUG,
$3.89 PUG,
$3.89 ULSD.
Of course, we've been telling ourselves that for over a decade now and junk keeps accumulating.
The next gas saving scheme will be to put new tires on the van (well, that's wrong too, since bald tires usually get better mpg).
I like the idea of having the extra qt of oil capacity, but what was your reason for the bypass filter? Is this an additional filter aft of the original? If so then I understand the thinking. When I read bypass, is when I'm not sure..Perhaps this filter is meant to filter any oil that the original chooses to bypass. If so then that makes perfect sense and combined with the extra oil capacity can only help to extend overall engine longevity. IMO, the engine oil lubing is likely not as much at risk with OEM stock design as the fuel system. There is a far greater chance of buying contaminated fuel, and with today's super high pump PSI's and complex injector atomizations, I think if I were buying a new TDI, I would be tempted to see if there is an additional fuel filtering system to invest in first. Of course if you invest in both..guess the next big dollar weak link will be? I'm thinking transmission..
I too would like to see an extra economical diesel p/u. In order for me to have the *extra* economical ability, since 4 WD would also have to be part of the package, I'd also be fine with a small to mid-sized truck. In an ideal world, not too big, but designed still to be able to slip a pc of plywood between the wheel wells...I guess basically Dodge Dakota sized. The width doesn't have to be there in the box for the 4' clearance, but it does up front to ensure elbow and shoulder room and side crash protection.
I would like to be able to order this truck with ALL options available INDEPENDENT of each other, by ticking off the boxes like in the old days. I'd pay for a heated steering wheel and ventilated seats, and REALLY good seats support-wise, but would not pay for nor want a sunrooof or auto-climate control.
I'd be fine with a 4 or 5 cylinder and agree on the inline engine config for longevity and smoothness. I also would be fine if it was not a torque monster in the excess because there goes the economy potential. I spent a w/e with friends in their ML350 diesel, and while 400+ ftlbs is intoxicating and a real giggle at times, basically that same vehicle would be just fine and tow capable if it had 250 ftlbs. of course if you want to tow a travel trailer etc, then yes...that's where the 6 cyl could come into play, but even in this real world example, the heaviest thing they tow is merely a Seadoo.
My perfect truck would also be SUPER quiet, in both road and wind noise. To me that is even more important than ride as long as the ride is not too sharp. I don't care if I had to pay for triple thickness glass (and all the other measures req'd) to ensure that quiet. I just came back from a w/e with friends and the (only) 2.5 hr drive one way, was almost exhausting with road and wind noise in my CRV. And that noise was created at only 55 and 65 mph..the two most common speeds I did.
Oh ya, of course it MUST have a lo-range capable transfer case for my specific tasks in my area. I work in an area of very steep hills. They are not long but so steep that many are paved driveways going down to the lake/cottage to avoid erosion from big rainfalls. Lo-range around here is literally a fuel/clutch/torque converter saver.
Fewer computers and dealer dependency would be my fantasy ending on this truck. And FWIW..I'm not yet convinced that I would trust GM again, and I have been boycotting Ford for 25 years now. I suppose if one of them actually offered what I described above, I might reconsider GM. I think out of principle I would have to continue my boycott with Ford for life even though they have tempted me with certain vehicles at times.
And to echo gagrice's welcome...hope you enjoy the board here.
I think too that little by little, truck buyers who actually work their truck, are starting to get a little tired of FE claims with gas job packaging promising high mpg (Ford's Ecoboost as an example) that don't measure up in the real world. I haven't heard if the RAM Eco type package is delivering in that regard or not. Maybe this is the time buyers could be swayed to give the diesels an honest chance once again in America. Especially if they don't screw it up..are you listening Chrysler...re your Liberty diesel fiasco??
Ford, OTOH, will probably belligerently keep making promises with their gasser Ecoboosts cuz it probably still owes them big time.
That's much of why I bought my present gas-driven TSX five years ago. The concept was to drive it a couple of years until the diesel version worked out its bugs, then trade it in on one.
We all see how well that worked out. At least the gas TSX is a decent car, especially the manual transmission -- only problem is that the wrong set of wheels is being driven.
/badda bing
Welcome back home btw. Hope the fire danger isn't bad where you are. Maybe I can send you some snow; it's predicted tonight and tomorrow.
A ~twenty cent differential between regular and diesel is probably historically low. Not bad at all really.
On the other hand in Central South Dakota diesel is about the same, but gasoline is about $.50 more. Crazy conspiracy.
I am thinking I like $1.85 a gal ULSD !
RUG
$3.35
PUG
$3.65
ULSD
$3.55
For some reason our ULSD has been less than PUG for a while, I'm liking that ULSD is less. When people shop for the German cars most of them take PUG, if ULSD stays less then PUG then the advantage is clear on what to buy.
I was just in the DC area and saw gas much higher than this.
This type of application of diesel power makes a lot of sense to me.
Not yet for prime time (US markets), but probably coming a few years latter...
As I have said on this web site some months and up to years before, the real auto drivetrain revolution is in the TRANSMISSION.
But yes, I think I would spring for a 268 hp TDI engine where a 90 hp engine existed before? :shades: Using the same ratios ( 90 hp/155 # ft 1.9 L) 462 # ft is .... :shades: app 48 mpg would not be hard to take either. ( I better hurry to get my 500,000 miles)
However, IF the American OEM's are not just giving the diesel market a "ME TOO late to the market response" I think they need to integrate their LONG V-8 diesel truck experiences and adapt it to the 150/1500 series truck and SUV/CUV segments, aka smaller V8 diesels with more "USEABLE " performance parameters.
There are MANY reasons for this. I think a visual would be that Pace (TexMex tomato salsa) TV commercial. He gets his xxx from NYC !!! ?????
The new 3.0-liter V-6 EcoDiesel is among today's most advanced diesel engines. Its emissions are 60 percent less than those produced by diesel powertrains 25 years ago. The impressive combination of torque and fuel economy marks new levels of performance for small V-6 engines.
Ram’s newest turbo diesel engine is manufactured by VM Motori, a Chrysler Group diesel engine supplier since 1992.
I don't think I can agree with this. NA couldn't build a decent V8 diesel if their life depended on it..oh wait..it did and they had to be rescued. And Ford's Powerstroke sure ain't anything to write home about even a Ford loyal couldn't argue..
I'm not a V8 fan for anything more than exhaust sound..from a gasser...don't even like a V8 diesel exhaust note. And NA can't even pick an Asian V8 worth owning past only 100000 miles. Perhaps not GM's fault for Isuzu's effort, but again...what is the common denominator? A diesel V8. This same theory hold s true even for such competent engine builders as Cummins, CAT and Mack. Only CAT's V8's (some..not all) were barely a decent engine for longevity/fuel use per output in excavator aps. Even CAT's V8 for highway truck use, paled in comparison for their big inline 6's. Fact is, you simply can not beat the longevity potential, smoothness and potential efficiency of an inline diesel engine. Things like torquing down a V intake manifold...who can actually get that thing torqued evenly without stressing one side more than the other?
And on that negative note...I do hope that all the V iterations of the last few years..the 6's in the Jeep, MB, VW etc...I hope they are good engines for the long haul. They may be powerful and efficient, that we know already, but until longevity / $ spent proves itself, I'm still a bit skeptical. Give me an inline anyday. Speaking of which...is BMW's diesel 6 an inline or a V? I think even they succumbed to space constraints in the engine bays..:(
edit - even Detroit didn't have success until they finally dumped their V8 2 strokes in favour (favor) of the (very good) inline 6 big block 4 stroke Series 60. Great engine. It's done well by them.
While I do not want to put words in your mouth, I am almost sure you and I (Gagrice I think would agree, but is on his road trip) are in the cheerleading section for RENEWED American innovation !!
I would love to do one of those adaptions in... something...a pickup I guess..4x4..but considering the amount of work involved, there isn't a pick up I can think off that I like enough, and has heavy enough suspension underpinnings to handle the swap. The auto tran that goes good with that 4 Cyl Cummins is a fairly substantial unit too in its own right..
Indeed, I understand that most folks (of 95% of (gasser passenger) vehicle fleet owners) can't even manage a YAWN when faced with a choice of: would you rather get 20 mpg or 32 mpg??? Indeed to a lot of diesel owners ( of the 5% or less) it can be relatively opaque. (60% better like models, aka VW Touareg TDI/gasser or in the SOS DD case competitor Acura MDX)