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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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All one has to do is to google for those RUG/PUG and ULSD state and federal taxes and see what the actual amount is since I have not heard of many sales where only the fed tax is paid. Now I am not sure if state local or fed do not pay ANY taxes on their RUG/ULSD use. I am pretty sure they do not pay their state and local an sales tax on those fueling transactions.
Since I know you to be in WA state, (why would you care what's paid in CA?) the gross over all "EXCISE TAX" figure is .559 cents per gal RUG/PUG VS/AND/OR .619 cents per gal ULSD or 10.7% more gross EXCISE taxation. This does not include your state and local sales taxes, which are EXTRA.
I'm going to wager that your (may I say 'tendency' then?) tendency to not be very pro diesel and your inclination to sensationalize other's supposed subdued FE claims (and other so-called weaknesses/$trengths) findings, may stem from your diesel experiences getting a little rough around the edges now. Memory-wise. I suspect your last diesel was the 300. Just how long ago was that? The next was probably the 504, and while the diesel engine itself might have actually been one of the better components in that car, reliability-wise, would it be a stretch to speculate that in other regards, for whatever reasons, the 504 may not be the best of memories you've had of past beasts?
Which would bring us to the Rabbit P/U. A 40 year memory. (always wished my 4 door was a P/U instead, but they were extremely rare) They weren't turbo'd so certainly no ball of fire. And if people loaded them regularly, this exasperated that aspect, plus probable memories of less than great tracking/traction down the highway since being FWD and rear axle payloaded. And they had a tiny office.
And of course while I had good luck with my Rabbit, apparently others did not, so this too might contribute to your less than favorable diesel relationship memories/opinions.
You say that you created this Forum. And named it. And it is certainly noticeable to me, that given its name, it is not exactly much of a diesel endorsement one way or the other. So one could say, it has been strategically named. It is only when you post that your general lack of enthusiasm for them is revealed.
If you are going to now claim that you don't engage in less than favorable diesel chat, then I can only say that human nature being what it is...we often don't see ourselves the way others do. And with that, I too probably am prone to the same lack of vision even though I strive to keep that in check... inevitably I fail at times no doubt.
Perhaps to add on to the super charger application, the real advantage to a (normally aspirated) gasser is the extra app 100 hp or so on tap. The disadvantage of course is the much lower mpg, (the price for being on tap). VW T compensates for that (lower mpg) with the hybrid application. Hybrid adds app a min of 5 to 10k. So for example on the VW T super charger, gasser, hybrid torque is V-8 ish @428 # ft. with hp @ 380. vs 280 hp and 266# ft. 61% more torque PUG gasser. Diesel is of course 240 hp/406 # ft. EPA mpg H @ 24/23/29.
So now...gas jobs...floor 'em everywhere you go, and I doubt there is anyone who would argue that they (no matter what displacement) can really suck the gas down. What doesn't give you go, is wasted heat and emissions out the pipe. Now take that same engine and turbo it..and now you REALLY have an ICE capable of sucking gas. Sure, and it'll fly too (unless the mfrg's intention was to get really positive EPA attention, if the certain select few owners are extremely light-footed but used a bit too small displacement in a too heavy or wind-resistant vehicle..thinking 1.6 Ecoboost here) but at what fuel economy price? Huge...and is why so many Fusion and Escape owners (as two examples) are less than thrilled with the FE they thought they would get. They relied on EPA, which, adjusted tests/figures or not...requires and did require generally a light foot to achieve the numbers in the attempt to sell cars. "We'll deal with the backlash after we get some of our R&D dollars back".
In any event, anyone who is heavy footed and knows they are (or believes a friend who points it out to them) probably should buy a turbo diesel..and is one of the very reasons why I'd like to see that ICE option available in all vehicles, so that that many more consumers don't have to compromise with such restrictive choices when shopping for a new vehicle..especially one they plan to keep a long time.
I think essentially it PO's them that a diesel gets (structurally) better mpg. To me, the neatest thing is one does not have to try !! Indeed, when you do "TRY", the results are far better than when gasser drivers "TRY". Indeed pt 2, they don't believe the (TDI) numbers regardless whether you try or .... NOT !!!
So in that sense, I understand it is a bit like scratching the chalkboard when you know people are sensitive to chalkboard scratching. Then, keep scratch as you here them say it doesn't affect them. :sick:
I mean CBS by way of Leslie Stahl, ( either not known to be right wing shrills) did a oil special and the oil sheik in charge of the infrastructure build out to access this "GOLD mine" said the cost to get the oil out of the ground and send it to the refinery was LESS than 2 bux a barrel !!!!!! How many businesses would like 2% cost of goods !? The passing interesting thing is that they knew since the 60's (1960's) that this pool (pool being an stupidly exponentially small reference) was there. It is just that it was too damned hot, even for desert folks.
link title
But that ain't nuttin, there is another even bigger one being built out. Both are operating right now and for @ least 3 years.
We were out of town again today and a Touareg TDI passed me. No idea of the year but it had temp plates from Wisconsin and looked used. I caught up to him at the next little town and managed to pull up next to him at a red light. He was in the left lane, I was in the right. I stopped just even with the tailpipe and rolled down my window.
When the light turned green I looked over at my wife and she was wrinkling her nose. I said "smell something?".
She said "yeah, that's not our van is it?"
I didn't smell a thing.
Last week I left a gas stove burner on low for an hour. We came home from an errand and she immediately noticed that too.
She likes wine; I'm thinking we need to move to Napa and turn her into a professional cork sniffer.
You know they can train dogs to detect cancer and termites. As you know there are explosive and drug detecting dogs.
Part of my education was paid by al key hall !!
Off topic from looks, I am really glad VW went with the 8 speed Aisin A/T transmission. I am really liking it, as much as one can like an individual component. I am not sure if a 9 to 10 speed A/T is in the future cards.
The 09 Jetta TDI has a 6 speed DSG ( wet sump). I do understand in the near future, VW will probably go to a 9/10 speed DSG, ( dry sump). So I am swaging without a intergrated to total drive trainl rebalancing, just the increased number of speeds and more efficient gear spreading will add easily 2 to 3 mpg.
I think I'll get ahead of the curve and get a fixed gear transmission on my next car.
Indeed if the Buick LaCrosse were mine, I would not even entertain a thought of selling it before 200,000 miles (if it is anywhere near as good as you had hoped or think it is) . So if you are the average US driver (12,000 to 15,000 miles) , that will not be for 16.7 years to 13.3 years.
I wish VW would break down the sales figures on the various models. Hope the Golf GTD comes to the USA and makes the turbo gas crawl under a rock.
another example way to calculate "half city half highway mpg" is by time: half time in city driving half time on highway.
as for diesel niche in USA, yeah, maybe it can be a little bit bigger of a niche, is all.
fintail, why is there a coffee cup on your dashboard display !? is your Keurig on board and connected via bluetooth?
also btw, my leadfoot driving seems to validate that the diesel buffs are right about diesel real-road mpg performance. i honed my leadfoot technique driving VW diesels - to get at all that torque they require lots of "flooring-it" at low rpm.
in the conspiracy dept, i've got a team of top conspiracy guys working out the details of the arugula conspiracy. (nobody had ever heard of the stuff before a few years ago, like it didn't even exist. yet today you can't get anything without arugula on it.)
Thought to have aphrodisiacal properties. So it goes along with the feel of torque you get driving a diesel vehicle.
Biodiesel. :shades:
Algae is also being touted as the best way to make ethanol. The DOE claims that it would take about 15k square miles of land to produce enough fuel from algae to replace all fossil fuel. Sounds like a field for young engineers to look into.
http://www.algenolbiofuels.com/
Fast forward to December 28, 2011. My kids are all over 7 years old, and I no longer need car seats or strollers and whatnot, so the aging, 15mpg V8 SUV had to go. Enter my Optima EX 2.4. Beautiful, and rated at 35 mpg, 24 city.
After driving a vehicle with gratuitous torque, I really felt that I had to dig in the throttle all the time in the Optima in order to get the thrust I was used to. After a few months of very disappointing FE, I had to re-learn how to drive economically. This means that I get little driving pleasure anymore.
This is why I truly believe that my next car will be a diesel. Since Mazda's bringing their Oil burner for sure, I can hope that Kia will bring over their diesel already being sold in Europe.
If it comes with an AWD option I too would be very excited about the prospects.
In particular, I really like the outrageous 2008 Touareg-2 twin-turbo V-10 TDI model with 310 HP and 553 lb ft. Alas, I do not posses $79,000 to spend on this stump-pulling luxo-brute. :shades:
Check out review and specs here:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0810dp_2008_volkswagen_touareg_v10_tdi/vi- ewall.html
As long as Americans are satisfied with the gas engine cars the automakers are reluctant to make the effort to reach our lofty emission standards. As Honda found out to sell cars in the EU diesel models are a must. They know a little gasser will not last long cruising a 100 MPH on the autobahns. Cheap gas cars and little need for high speed cruising in the USA are what drives our market. The premium here for diesel engines is eaten up by the emissions requirements.
The participants who wanted were given "pony rides"
http://www.motortrend.com/auto_news/112_news060725_vw_touareg_smithsonian_exhibi- t/
If 10% gasoline caused a 20% loss, then how would a car even run on E-85 if just 10% is so detrimental?
FF, it is interesting to contemplate that if not for E10 and tuning that my Civic getting 38-42 range could do a min of 10% better.
So yes as it applies to TDI's and CUV's it is app a 25 year old dream come true to now get 32 mpg (on SOS/DD R/T) or app 113% better.
https://www.google.com/search?q=1979+volkswagen+rabbit+diesel+pickup+pictures&hl- =en&rlz=1C1WCCA_enUS393US393&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OteTUanILavH0AGH- -IHQDw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=965
ENJOY!!!
I have this fragmented memory of a light blue Rabbit Diesel pickup chugging down the old I-95 mixing bowl with black smoke pouring out of the exhaust.
Car and Driver commented on it's 0-60 time at some point. I think it was 19 seconds.
In my post to SR, I said 40 year memory..I should have said 30+ year..
On 20/20 hind sight, I think I will take fuel a lot closer to M/T, as the weight of 26.4 gals of diesel fuel is app 192 #'s. This can easily cost -1 to -2 mpg for app 13 gals, this "HIT" would vary from - 13 miles to - 26 miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCbfGBPnGiI
I have wanted a TLC turbo diesel for more than a few years. If I had gotten one, it would more than likely already have 200,000 + miles on it.
Now in my case, (250,000 miles) one can argue about the relative merits of differences in RUG vs LSD/ULSD. and the price difference per gal over time (19 years) However @ current RUG prices (3.79 per gal x) 10,833 gals more or $41,057 MORE to go the same mileage, I would ask: what is really hard to understand?
Now I do not know what would have happened from a scheduled/unscheduled repairs/maintenance point of view for the TDI portion, but I definitely know what happened to the gasser one.
One can easily gloss ove this and say gee, this guy is stuck in the past. Well it might be a very myopic point of view, if one refuses to see how it can be used to PROJECT (like models).
So for example, fuelly lists the higher number of folks getting 16 mpg in a VW T gasser and getting 26 mpg in a VW T TDI. Using the same 250,000 miles, one can project gallonage consumption of 15,625/9,615 gals. So what is 6,010 gals x $3.79 (current RUG prices) ?
PUG= $4.19
So why are the prices more @ home? ....HMMMMM ! ....
SIDEBAR"
CA of course charges WAY more taxation for D2 than RUG (PUG also) !!!!!!!!
http://www.tucsongasprices.com/
So for another example, a lot of folks by the way they write would probably SWEAR I have never set foot in nor ever owned a gasser and even HATE gassers. The fact remains most mileage has still been in gassers.