I understand that you are probably implying that you would not buy a diesel LaCrosse IF it were offered !! As you have probably heard me say more than once, I am fine with that. IF you are fine with Buick LaCrosse NOT offering a diesel, then why are you on a diesel board?
..."I think diesel is taxed higher than gasoline, so one would think the powers that be would actually conspire for it - but then again, it's not a logical group with their fingers on the button"
All one has to do is to google for those RUG/PUG and ULSD state and federal taxes and see what the actual amount is since I have not heard of many sales where only the fed tax is paid. Now I am not sure if state local or fed do not pay ANY taxes on their RUG/ULSD use. I am pretty sure they do not pay their state and local an sales tax on those fueling transactions.
Since I know you to be in WA state, (why would you care what's paid in CA?) the gross over all "EXCISE TAX" figure is .559 cents per gal RUG/PUG VS/AND/OR .619 cents per gal ULSD or 10.7% more gross EXCISE taxation. This does not include your state and local sales taxes, which are EXTRA.
It would appear that I am not alone in some of my interpretations, so not gonna humor you with more wasted time defending against your circular argument claim. Seems to me I've seen you (but can't recall if was you for sure...not many people use that particular term though) use that term in the past on similar grounds. It's a good one, I'll give ya that...allows wiggle room for the masses interpretations/perceptions.
I'm going to wager that your (may I say 'tendency' then?) tendency to not be very pro diesel and your inclination to sensationalize other's supposed subdued FE claims (and other so-called weaknesses/$trengths) findings, may stem from your diesel experiences getting a little rough around the edges now. Memory-wise. I suspect your last diesel was the 300. Just how long ago was that? The next was probably the 504, and while the diesel engine itself might have actually been one of the better components in that car, reliability-wise, would it be a stretch to speculate that in other regards, for whatever reasons, the 504 may not be the best of memories you've had of past beasts?
Which would bring us to the Rabbit P/U. A 40 year memory. (always wished my 4 door was a P/U instead, but they were extremely rare) They weren't turbo'd so certainly no ball of fire. And if people loaded them regularly, this exasperated that aspect, plus probable memories of less than great tracking/traction down the highway since being FWD and rear axle payloaded. And they had a tiny office. And of course while I had good luck with my Rabbit, apparently others did not, so this too might contribute to your less than favorable diesel relationship memories/opinions.
You say that you created this Forum. And named it. And it is certainly noticeable to me, that given its name, it is not exactly much of a diesel endorsement one way or the other. So one could say, it has been strategically named. It is only when you post that your general lack of enthusiasm for them is revealed.
If you are going to now claim that you don't engage in less than favorable diesel chat, then I can only say that human nature being what it is...we often don't see ourselves the way others do. And with that, I too probably am prone to the same lack of vision even though I strive to keep that in check... inevitably I fail at times no doubt.
I am just going to wax nostalgic about the lack of turbo in a diesel (1980s MB 300 with no TD just D) on that same SOS DD trip. LORD have mercy!!! IF and when you lost forward momentum (55/65 mph) and got stuck behind a slow moving gasser, geez you might as well use the emergency lane !!!! You would IMMEDIATELY, if not sooner drop to 30 35 mpg and as I remember, it would take you literally miles to get back to 55/65. In comparison to the VW Touareg TDI THESE are the good old days !!!!!!!
I hear ya, and is why I probably sound like a broken record in saying that all diesels should be turbo'd to let the engines breathe the way they stand the best chance of exploiting the potential torque produced.
I have taken those TDI's to the SOS DD destination and I have to say its great not to lose much at altitude. Getting better fuel mileage @ altitude is a side benefit. In contrast, I have notice a SOTP loss in a 385 hp 385 # ft of torque Z06. The gasser TLC's are needless to say SLUGISH on the UPGRADE. The momentum on the downgrade makes it still sluggish, but less objectionable.
Perhaps to add on to the super charger application, the real advantage to a (normally aspirated) gasser is the extra app 100 hp or so on tap. The disadvantage of course is the much lower mpg, (the price for being on tap). VW T compensates for that (lower mpg) with the hybrid application. Hybrid adds app a min of 5 to 10k. So for example on the VW T super charger, gasser, hybrid torque is V-8 ish @428 # ft. with hp @ 380. vs 280 hp and 266# ft. 61% more torque PUG gasser. Diesel is of course 240 hp/406 # ft. EPA mpg H @ 24/23/29.
A diesel is sort of a self-limiting type of engine. It is especially a good choice for an owner who is basically heavy-footed and would fall into an aggressive driver class. You can take a diesel and practically floor it everywhere you go and not suffer the drastic FE penalty that you would doing the same thing in any gasser. Now...turbo that diesel, and do the same thing, you will burn a little more fuel of course, because with more air it requires more fuel into the mix, but the payoff is tremendous torque and go-power. Nowadays, if you floor it everywhere you go..even Golf TDI's, you're looking at a ticket so fast it'll make your head spin.
So now...gas jobs...floor 'em everywhere you go, and I doubt there is anyone who would argue that they (no matter what displacement) can really suck the gas down. What doesn't give you go, is wasted heat and emissions out the pipe. Now take that same engine and turbo it..and now you REALLY have an ICE capable of sucking gas. Sure, and it'll fly too (unless the mfrg's intention was to get really positive EPA attention, if the certain select few owners are extremely light-footed but used a bit too small displacement in a too heavy or wind-resistant vehicle..thinking 1.6 Ecoboost here) but at what fuel economy price? Huge...and is why so many Fusion and Escape owners (as two examples) are less than thrilled with the FE they thought they would get. They relied on EPA, which, adjusted tests/figures or not...requires and did require generally a light foot to achieve the numbers in the attempt to sell cars. "We'll deal with the backlash after we get some of our R&D dollars back".
In any event, anyone who is heavy footed and knows they are (or believes a friend who points it out to them) probably should buy a turbo diesel..and is one of the very reasons why I'd like to see that ICE option available in all vehicles, so that that many more consumers don't have to compromise with such restrictive choices when shopping for a new vehicle..especially one they plan to keep a long time.
Yes. Essentially (on this board anyway) mpg DOES matter, even as gasser owner's say it DOESN'T matter, when diesel users report "better" fuel mileage. If it didn't, whats the brouhaha about the EPA tests??? What's the big deal about the forward 54.5 mpg standard????? Why does the EPA construct rules that essentially keep high mph vehicles OUT !!!!!! ?????
I think essentially it PO's them that a diesel gets (structurally) better mpg. To me, the neatest thing is one does not have to try !! Indeed, when you do "TRY", the results are far better than when gasser drivers "TRY". Indeed pt 2, they don't believe the (TDI) numbers regardless whether you try or .... NOT !!!
So in that sense, I understand it is a bit like scratching the chalkboard when you know people are sensitive to chalkboard scratching. Then, keep scratch as you here them say it doesn't affect them. :sick: Now as long as the overwhelming choice (95%) are vehicles like models that consume far more than far less fuel, you really can't be serious about the so called "fuel crisis." Indeed, I have said its the fairy tale everybody wants to act like they want to believe. So if you don't believe it they make you defacto believe it by raising the fuel prices to way past unconscionable levels /!!! The real bad news is there are some folks that actually believe it.
I mean CBS by way of Leslie Stahl, ( either not known to be right wing shrills) did a oil special and the oil sheik in charge of the infrastructure build out to access this "GOLD mine" said the cost to get the oil out of the ground and send it to the refinery was LESS than 2 bux a barrel !!!!!! How many businesses would like 2% cost of goods !? The passing interesting thing is that they knew since the 60's (1960's) that this pool (pool being an stupidly exponentially small reference) was there. It is just that it was too damned hot, even for desert folks. link title
But that ain't nuttin, there is another even bigger one being built out. Both are operating right now and for @ least 3 years.
Well, actually she's presently retired but I think she should market her nose.
We were out of town again today and a Touareg TDI passed me. No idea of the year but it had temp plates from Wisconsin and looked used. I caught up to him at the next little town and managed to pull up next to him at a red light. He was in the left lane, I was in the right. I stopped just even with the tailpipe and rolled down my window.
When the light turned green I looked over at my wife and she was wrinkling her nose. I said "smell something?".
She said "yeah, that's not our van is it?"
I didn't smell a thing.
Last week I left a gas stove burner on low for an hour. We came home from an errand and she immediately noticed that too.
She likes wine; I'm thinking we need to move to Napa and turn her into a professional cork sniffer.
I don't know whether to say thanks or say that of the ones I seriously looked at (MB GL350, BMW X5-35D, Audi Q7 TDI, Acura MDX, etc.) , I liked it (- the look-) the best also. Sometimes the combinations do not always line up. In this segment however, over all, the competitors look VERY characteristically similar. So differentiation is really in very small degrees.
Off topic from looks, I am really glad VW went with the 8 speed Aisin A/T transmission. I am really liking it, as much as one can like an individual component. I am not sure if a 9 to 10 speed A/T is in the future cards.
The 09 Jetta TDI has a 6 speed DSG ( wet sump). I do understand in the near future, VW will probably go to a 9/10 speed DSG, ( dry sump). So I am swaging without a intergrated to total drive trainl rebalancing, just the increased number of speeds and more efficient gear spreading will add easily 2 to 3 mpg.
Like I said before, I am no diesel jihadist, so if you are happy, all the best !! Me? I am just happy to use 6,250 gals where 14,815 gals will do. ( for the 03, 4,000 when 7,272 gals will do and for the 09 4762 gals when 7042 gals will do) Right now its looking that all three diesels will be just fine to 200,000 miles a piece. The TLC's (gassers) have all gotten over 200k, albeit way more fuel consumption.
I never implied I wouldn't buy a diesel LaCrosse if offered. If there was very little bump in purchase price and diesel was priced the same as regular gas, I may very well have one right now. As to why I'm on a diesel board, there is a lot of negativity and disagreement here and I find that amusing. The threads where everyone is thoughtful and opened minded are boring. I especially enjoy when Shifty makes a few reasonable points and folks jump all over him. That's why he gets the big bucks. Don't start playing nice or I'll take this discussion off my watch list.
Buick never implied they would ever offer a diesel, LaCrosse, so at best it is a steep up hill battle. IS it hard to buy something that is not offered? And if one sets a bunch of preconditions for something that is not even on the market, then harder even still? Don't you just love it when we are being reasonable? So what about a snowball's chance in hell are you trying to sell?
Indeed if the Buick LaCrosse were mine, I would not even entertain a thought of selling it before 200,000 miles (if it is anywhere near as good as you had hoped or think it is) . So if you are the average US driver (12,000 to 15,000 miles) , that will not be for 16.7 years to 13.3 years.
Just looked at the Golf R with turbo gas. They have a TMV of about $33k. The Golf diesel has a TMV of $23K. So to get a gas engine that will perform like a diesel costs about $10k more. That is a lot to pay for 7 more ft lbs of torque. With a huge loss in FE with a turbo gas engine.
I wish VW would break down the sales figures on the various models. Hope the Golf GTD comes to the USA and makes the turbo gas crawl under a rock.
it's actually a weighted average to calculate mpg by drive half city miles half highway miles... another example way to calculate "half city half highway mpg" is by time: half time in city driving half time on highway.
as for diesel niche in USA, yeah, maybe it can be a little bit bigger of a niche, is all.
fintail, why is there a coffee cup on your dashboard display !? is your Keurig on board and connected via bluetooth?
also btw, my leadfoot driving seems to validate that the diesel buffs are right about diesel real-road mpg performance. i honed my leadfoot technique driving VW diesels - to get at all that torque they require lots of "flooring-it" at low rpm.
in the conspiracy dept, i've got a team of top conspiracy guys working out the details of the arugula conspiracy. (nobody had ever heard of the stuff before a few years ago, like it didn't even exist. yet today you can't get anything without arugula on it.)
in the conspiracy dept, i've got a team of top conspiracy guys working out the details of the arugula conspiracy. (nobody had ever heard of the stuff before a few years ago, like it didn't even exist. yet today you can't get anything without arugula on it.)
Thought to have aphrodisiacal properties. So it goes along with the feel of torque you get driving a diesel vehicle.
I just hope I get the diesel I want before there is a break through in biodiesel from Algae. When that happens and it will, the price of diesel vehicles will be tough to deal on. With diesel holding above RUG in most places, it makes dealing easier. The biggest problem is supply. The automakers seem to dribble the diesels out.
Algae is also being touted as the best way to make ethanol. The DOE claims that it would take about 15k square miles of land to produce enough fuel from algae to replace all fossil fuel. Sounds like a field for young engineers to look into.
One of the reasons why there are extra costs to diesel engines is because the EPA has NOT allowed diesel engines in passenger vehicles to be certified to burn up to 100% biodiesel. So for example VW has to meet up to 5% biodiesel specifications. Anything over that and VW retains the right to refuse engine warranty work due to use of bio diesel over 5%.
So that's why I was still able to get 45mpg in my Passat TDI! With only 90 hp, I had to stand on the throttle all the time. Now, I have a lead foot, but in my defense, I am very thoughtful about my fellow drivers. I try to not get in anyone's way.
Fast forward to December 28, 2011. My kids are all over 7 years old, and I no longer need car seats or strollers and whatnot, so the aging, 15mpg V8 SUV had to go. Enter my Optima EX 2.4. Beautiful, and rated at 35 mpg, 24 city. After driving a vehicle with gratuitous torque, I really felt that I had to dig in the throttle all the time in the Optima in order to get the thrust I was used to. After a few months of very disappointing FE, I had to re-learn how to drive economically. This means that I get little driving pleasure anymore. This is why I truly believe that my next car will be a diesel. Since Mazda's bringing their Oil burner for sure, I can hope that Kia will bring over their diesel already being sold in Europe.
I do understand the auto makers reluctance to adopt biodiesel or even B20. Only a few companies are making biodiesel up to the strict standards. VW and MB have allowed owners in Hawaii to use B100 from Pacific Biodiesel. The company maintains very high standards for their fuel. And there is little chance of cold gelling the biodiesel in Hawaii. Then you have all the garage scientists with French Fry oil they are trying to run a modern diesel engine on.
Actually my response post was directed more to the wider board, as I know that you know. On the gasser side, introduction of lower percentages of ethanol caused widespread problems and up to 20% loss of fuel mileage. Both to either are still denied by the regulatory and enforcement agencies. Problems are about to flare up again, as the ethanol percentages are pushed closer to E85 (15 to 20% ethanol) So to be fair, legislation and regulation affects/effects both fuels.
I like the Touareg too, but I think it's stuck up cousin, the Cayenne, is one of the ugliest cars on the road.
In particular, I really like the outrageous 2008 Touareg-2 twin-turbo V-10 TDI model with 310 HP and 553 lb ft. Alas, I do not posses $79,000 to spend on this stump-pulling luxo-brute. :shades:
I can hope that Kia will bring over their diesel already being sold in Europe.
As long as Americans are satisfied with the gas engine cars the automakers are reluctant to make the effort to reach our lofty emission standards. As Honda found out to sell cars in the EU diesel models are a must. They know a little gasser will not last long cruising a 100 MPH on the autobahns. Cheap gas cars and little need for high speed cruising in the USA are what drives our market. The premium here for diesel engines is eaten up by the emissions requirements.
Here is a picture I took of 5 brand new Touareg V10 TDIs ready for their around the World adventure drive. Taken July 2004 in Prudhoe Bay Alaska. They were flown in from Germany for the Touareg Experience 360. I was not so interested as it was way more power than I wanted. And not the greatest FE.
Seeing the picture you posted makes me wax nostalgic for the years ago "field trip" a local VW GTG has to the Stanford, CA campus to see the preparation cars for the VW Touareg used in the remote control DARPA competition. I understand the winning Touareg is now in the Smithsonian museum.
The participants who wanted were given "pony rides" :shades:
Never heard of E10 causing a 20% loss in fuel economy. Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline by about 45% or so. E10 causes a loss of about 4 or maybe 5 % in fuel economy. I avoid it as we have the choice in my area. Regular 87 is always pure gas and 89 octane is always E-10. You can chose - the E-10 is usually a dime cheaper per gallon.
If 10% gasoline caused a 20% loss, then how would a car even run on E-85 if just 10% is so detrimental?
Actually it happened to me on a 1987 TLC normally getting 15 mpg dropping to 12/13 mpg with E10.So, I do not know if that is still true, as it was never intended nor tuned to run E10 to E20. I have long since sold it with 250,000 mlles on it @ 44% depreciation loss. This posted a depreciation per mile driven of app .028 cents per mile.
FF, it is interesting to contemplate that if not for E10 and tuning that my Civic getting 38-42 range could do a min of 10% better.
So yes as it applies to TDI's and CUV's it is app a 25 year old dream come true to now get 32 mpg (on SOS/DD R/T) or app 113% better.
Speaking of mpg, I just ducked into the local fuel station @ 747 miles to get ULSD fuel. The 12 VW Touareg TDI took 22.977 gals for 32 mpg (32.51 mpg actual) With a 26.4 gal tank it could have (easily) gone another 98 miles, for 845 total miles (leaving .4 gals for safety sake, there are easily .16 gal or 20 oz of fuel in the filter). Come to think of it the oil and filter and fuel filter were also changed @ the dealer and the car probably did a lot of unnecessary idling in this tank full.
On 20/20 hind sight, I think I will take fuel a lot closer to M/T, as the weight of 26.4 gals of diesel fuel is app 192 #'s. This can easily cost -1 to -2 mpg for app 13 gals, this "HIT" would vary from - 13 miles to - 26 miles.
The V10 TDI was more of a racing engine. Not sure how close it was to the Audi diesel used in many races. I think they built and sold them to get production status. They also ran them in the last African Dakar race if memory serves me. Now they have a winning Dakar combo with the V6 TDI. They dominated that grueling race for 2-3 years. Then Drove from the tip of South America to the Arctic Ocean in a the V6 Touareg TDI, setting a record time unlikely to be broken.
I just miss the 320 lb ft torque and rear biased AWD. I could piruette my GC around corners with a flick of the wrist and a well placed stab of the throttle. But, it spent too much time in the shop and draining my wallet at the pump. I think your right though. No way Kia brings a diesel here unless Mazda has miraculous sales numbers on the 6 TD.
Yes, I think folks tend to forget that Toyota has marketed diesels world wide and for decades.Yet, IF ANY auto OEM has the wherewithal to bring any diesel/s to the US markets, it has to be Toyota. Yet... nada.
I have wanted a TLC turbo diesel for more than a few years. If I had gotten one, it would more than likely already have 200,000 + miles on it.
The US mpg for a 90's TLC TDI might be unknown to a SWAG , 25 to 26 (AUSSIE figures would be a swag) vs US TLC RUG 12 to 14. So like model diesels mpg would be 108% to 86% better. So over 200,000 ( mine approaches 250,000 miles) 12/25 would be consumed gallonage of 16,667/8,000, for 250,000 miles= 20,833/10,000.
Now in my case, (250,000 miles) one can argue about the relative merits of differences in RUG vs LSD/ULSD. and the price difference per gal over time (19 years) However @ current RUG prices (3.79 per gal x) 10,833 gals more or $41,057 MORE to go the same mileage, I would ask: what is really hard to understand?
Now I do not know what would have happened from a scheduled/unscheduled repairs/maintenance point of view for the TDI portion, but I definitely know what happened to the gasser one.
One can easily gloss ove this and say gee, this guy is stuck in the past. Well it might be a very myopic point of view, if one refuses to see how it can be used to PROJECT (like models).
So for example, fuelly lists the higher number of folks getting 16 mpg in a VW T gasser and getting 26 mpg in a VW T TDI. Using the same 250,000 miles, one can project gallonage consumption of 15,625/9,615 gals. So what is 6,010 gals x $3.79 (current RUG prices) ?
What gets me is less than 400 miles away in Tucson, Costco is selling RUG for $2.99 per gallon. Something wrong with that picture. I noticed going cross country very large discrepancies from one town to the next. Diesel was fairly consistent at about $3.89. I did see it for $3.54 in one town, not sure where.
I need to get out more ! Some years ago we did a road trip to the Grand Canyon, AZ in the two seater. To our bad luck( @ the time, which turn to magnificent a short time later) I had to go to the Grand Canyon, AZ from Las Vegas , NV literally in a driving rain the whole leg. It was a tad dicey, as there were signs of potential massive flash flooding. But for some reason, the rain abated in time for the 19 passenger airplane tour we had booked (thought it might get cancelled) and 1 helicopter tour of the Grand Canyon with unbelievable cloud formations !!!!! Cloud formations can be far and few in-between.
The upcoming Mercedes CLA will come to our fair shores with a 2.1 liter twin turbo diesel. Output? 200 HP and 350 lb ft. Also offered are two gasser. Both 2.0, one AMG. AWD available on all. It's size places it as a compact luxury sedan.
Your acronyms and math make my head feel two kinds of hurty! :confuse: (Ralph-Simpsons) What is a SWAG, and is a TLC a Land Cruiser?I figured out RUG, PUG, and even ULSD... but not SWAG.
Scientific Wild [non-permissible content removed] Guess. There are less key strokes with SWAG vs scientific wild [non-permissible content removed] guess. Anyone can do a site search and the acronyms will pop up with their meanings. There are fair to widespread disbeliefs/bias on the non diesel side, so a lot of stuff gets repeated x 2. Some stuff have become macros.
So for another example, a lot of folks by the way they write would probably SWEAR I have never set foot in nor ever owned a gasser and even HATE gassers. The fact remains most mileage has still been in gassers.
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All one has to do is to google for those RUG/PUG and ULSD state and federal taxes and see what the actual amount is since I have not heard of many sales where only the fed tax is paid. Now I am not sure if state local or fed do not pay ANY taxes on their RUG/ULSD use. I am pretty sure they do not pay their state and local an sales tax on those fueling transactions.
Since I know you to be in WA state, (why would you care what's paid in CA?) the gross over all "EXCISE TAX" figure is .559 cents per gal RUG/PUG VS/AND/OR .619 cents per gal ULSD or 10.7% more gross EXCISE taxation. This does not include your state and local sales taxes, which are EXTRA.
I'm going to wager that your (may I say 'tendency' then?) tendency to not be very pro diesel and your inclination to sensationalize other's supposed subdued FE claims (and other so-called weaknesses/$trengths) findings, may stem from your diesel experiences getting a little rough around the edges now. Memory-wise. I suspect your last diesel was the 300. Just how long ago was that? The next was probably the 504, and while the diesel engine itself might have actually been one of the better components in that car, reliability-wise, would it be a stretch to speculate that in other regards, for whatever reasons, the 504 may not be the best of memories you've had of past beasts?
Which would bring us to the Rabbit P/U. A 40 year memory. (always wished my 4 door was a P/U instead, but they were extremely rare) They weren't turbo'd so certainly no ball of fire. And if people loaded them regularly, this exasperated that aspect, plus probable memories of less than great tracking/traction down the highway since being FWD and rear axle payloaded. And they had a tiny office.
And of course while I had good luck with my Rabbit, apparently others did not, so this too might contribute to your less than favorable diesel relationship memories/opinions.
You say that you created this Forum. And named it. And it is certainly noticeable to me, that given its name, it is not exactly much of a diesel endorsement one way or the other. So one could say, it has been strategically named. It is only when you post that your general lack of enthusiasm for them is revealed.
If you are going to now claim that you don't engage in less than favorable diesel chat, then I can only say that human nature being what it is...we often don't see ourselves the way others do. And with that, I too probably am prone to the same lack of vision even though I strive to keep that in check... inevitably I fail at times no doubt.
Perhaps to add on to the super charger application, the real advantage to a (normally aspirated) gasser is the extra app 100 hp or so on tap. The disadvantage of course is the much lower mpg, (the price for being on tap). VW T compensates for that (lower mpg) with the hybrid application. Hybrid adds app a min of 5 to 10k. So for example on the VW T super charger, gasser, hybrid torque is V-8 ish @428 # ft. with hp @ 380. vs 280 hp and 266# ft. 61% more torque PUG gasser. Diesel is of course 240 hp/406 # ft. EPA mpg H @ 24/23/29.
So now...gas jobs...floor 'em everywhere you go, and I doubt there is anyone who would argue that they (no matter what displacement) can really suck the gas down. What doesn't give you go, is wasted heat and emissions out the pipe. Now take that same engine and turbo it..and now you REALLY have an ICE capable of sucking gas. Sure, and it'll fly too (unless the mfrg's intention was to get really positive EPA attention, if the certain select few owners are extremely light-footed but used a bit too small displacement in a too heavy or wind-resistant vehicle..thinking 1.6 Ecoboost here) but at what fuel economy price? Huge...and is why so many Fusion and Escape owners (as two examples) are less than thrilled with the FE they thought they would get. They relied on EPA, which, adjusted tests/figures or not...requires and did require generally a light foot to achieve the numbers in the attempt to sell cars. "We'll deal with the backlash after we get some of our R&D dollars back".
In any event, anyone who is heavy footed and knows they are (or believes a friend who points it out to them) probably should buy a turbo diesel..and is one of the very reasons why I'd like to see that ICE option available in all vehicles, so that that many more consumers don't have to compromise with such restrictive choices when shopping for a new vehicle..especially one they plan to keep a long time.
I think essentially it PO's them that a diesel gets (structurally) better mpg. To me, the neatest thing is one does not have to try !! Indeed, when you do "TRY", the results are far better than when gasser drivers "TRY". Indeed pt 2, they don't believe the (TDI) numbers regardless whether you try or .... NOT !!!
So in that sense, I understand it is a bit like scratching the chalkboard when you know people are sensitive to chalkboard scratching. Then, keep scratch as you here them say it doesn't affect them. :sick:
I mean CBS by way of Leslie Stahl, ( either not known to be right wing shrills) did a oil special and the oil sheik in charge of the infrastructure build out to access this "GOLD mine" said the cost to get the oil out of the ground and send it to the refinery was LESS than 2 bux a barrel !!!!!! How many businesses would like 2% cost of goods !? The passing interesting thing is that they knew since the 60's (1960's) that this pool (pool being an stupidly exponentially small reference) was there. It is just that it was too damned hot, even for desert folks.
link title
But that ain't nuttin, there is another even bigger one being built out. Both are operating right now and for @ least 3 years.
We were out of town again today and a Touareg TDI passed me. No idea of the year but it had temp plates from Wisconsin and looked used. I caught up to him at the next little town and managed to pull up next to him at a red light. He was in the left lane, I was in the right. I stopped just even with the tailpipe and rolled down my window.
When the light turned green I looked over at my wife and she was wrinkling her nose. I said "smell something?".
She said "yeah, that's not our van is it?"
I didn't smell a thing.
Last week I left a gas stove burner on low for an hour. We came home from an errand and she immediately noticed that too.
She likes wine; I'm thinking we need to move to Napa and turn her into a professional cork sniffer.
You know they can train dogs to detect cancer and termites. As you know there are explosive and drug detecting dogs.
Part of my education was paid by al key hall !!
Off topic from looks, I am really glad VW went with the 8 speed Aisin A/T transmission. I am really liking it, as much as one can like an individual component. I am not sure if a 9 to 10 speed A/T is in the future cards.
The 09 Jetta TDI has a 6 speed DSG ( wet sump). I do understand in the near future, VW will probably go to a 9/10 speed DSG, ( dry sump). So I am swaging without a intergrated to total drive trainl rebalancing, just the increased number of speeds and more efficient gear spreading will add easily 2 to 3 mpg.
I think I'll get ahead of the curve and get a fixed gear transmission on my next car.
Indeed if the Buick LaCrosse were mine, I would not even entertain a thought of selling it before 200,000 miles (if it is anywhere near as good as you had hoped or think it is) . So if you are the average US driver (12,000 to 15,000 miles) , that will not be for 16.7 years to 13.3 years.
I wish VW would break down the sales figures on the various models. Hope the Golf GTD comes to the USA and makes the turbo gas crawl under a rock.
another example way to calculate "half city half highway mpg" is by time: half time in city driving half time on highway.
as for diesel niche in USA, yeah, maybe it can be a little bit bigger of a niche, is all.
fintail, why is there a coffee cup on your dashboard display !? is your Keurig on board and connected via bluetooth?
also btw, my leadfoot driving seems to validate that the diesel buffs are right about diesel real-road mpg performance. i honed my leadfoot technique driving VW diesels - to get at all that torque they require lots of "flooring-it" at low rpm.
in the conspiracy dept, i've got a team of top conspiracy guys working out the details of the arugula conspiracy. (nobody had ever heard of the stuff before a few years ago, like it didn't even exist. yet today you can't get anything without arugula on it.)
Thought to have aphrodisiacal properties. So it goes along with the feel of torque you get driving a diesel vehicle.
Biodiesel. :shades:
Algae is also being touted as the best way to make ethanol. The DOE claims that it would take about 15k square miles of land to produce enough fuel from algae to replace all fossil fuel. Sounds like a field for young engineers to look into.
http://www.algenolbiofuels.com/
Fast forward to December 28, 2011. My kids are all over 7 years old, and I no longer need car seats or strollers and whatnot, so the aging, 15mpg V8 SUV had to go. Enter my Optima EX 2.4. Beautiful, and rated at 35 mpg, 24 city.
After driving a vehicle with gratuitous torque, I really felt that I had to dig in the throttle all the time in the Optima in order to get the thrust I was used to. After a few months of very disappointing FE, I had to re-learn how to drive economically. This means that I get little driving pleasure anymore.
This is why I truly believe that my next car will be a diesel. Since Mazda's bringing their Oil burner for sure, I can hope that Kia will bring over their diesel already being sold in Europe.
If it comes with an AWD option I too would be very excited about the prospects.
In particular, I really like the outrageous 2008 Touareg-2 twin-turbo V-10 TDI model with 310 HP and 553 lb ft. Alas, I do not posses $79,000 to spend on this stump-pulling luxo-brute. :shades:
Check out review and specs here:
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0810dp_2008_volkswagen_touareg_v10_tdi/vi- ewall.html
As long as Americans are satisfied with the gas engine cars the automakers are reluctant to make the effort to reach our lofty emission standards. As Honda found out to sell cars in the EU diesel models are a must. They know a little gasser will not last long cruising a 100 MPH on the autobahns. Cheap gas cars and little need for high speed cruising in the USA are what drives our market. The premium here for diesel engines is eaten up by the emissions requirements.
The participants who wanted were given "pony rides"
http://www.motortrend.com/auto_news/112_news060725_vw_touareg_smithsonian_exhibi- t/
If 10% gasoline caused a 20% loss, then how would a car even run on E-85 if just 10% is so detrimental?
FF, it is interesting to contemplate that if not for E10 and tuning that my Civic getting 38-42 range could do a min of 10% better.
So yes as it applies to TDI's and CUV's it is app a 25 year old dream come true to now get 32 mpg (on SOS/DD R/T) or app 113% better.
https://www.google.com/search?q=1979+volkswagen+rabbit+diesel+pickup+pictures&hl- =en&rlz=1C1WCCA_enUS393US393&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=OteTUanILavH0AGH- -IHQDw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=965
ENJOY!!!
I have this fragmented memory of a light blue Rabbit Diesel pickup chugging down the old I-95 mixing bowl with black smoke pouring out of the exhaust.
Car and Driver commented on it's 0-60 time at some point. I think it was 19 seconds.
In my post to SR, I said 40 year memory..I should have said 30+ year..
On 20/20 hind sight, I think I will take fuel a lot closer to M/T, as the weight of 26.4 gals of diesel fuel is app 192 #'s. This can easily cost -1 to -2 mpg for app 13 gals, this "HIT" would vary from - 13 miles to - 26 miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCbfGBPnGiI
I have wanted a TLC turbo diesel for more than a few years. If I had gotten one, it would more than likely already have 200,000 + miles on it.
Now in my case, (250,000 miles) one can argue about the relative merits of differences in RUG vs LSD/ULSD. and the price difference per gal over time (19 years) However @ current RUG prices (3.79 per gal x) 10,833 gals more or $41,057 MORE to go the same mileage, I would ask: what is really hard to understand?
Now I do not know what would have happened from a scheduled/unscheduled repairs/maintenance point of view for the TDI portion, but I definitely know what happened to the gasser one.
One can easily gloss ove this and say gee, this guy is stuck in the past. Well it might be a very myopic point of view, if one refuses to see how it can be used to PROJECT (like models).
So for example, fuelly lists the higher number of folks getting 16 mpg in a VW T gasser and getting 26 mpg in a VW T TDI. Using the same 250,000 miles, one can project gallonage consumption of 15,625/9,615 gals. So what is 6,010 gals x $3.79 (current RUG prices) ?
PUG= $4.19
So why are the prices more @ home? ....HMMMMM ! ....
SIDEBAR"
CA of course charges WAY more taxation for D2 than RUG (PUG also) !!!!!!!!
http://www.tucsongasprices.com/
So for another example, a lot of folks by the way they write would probably SWEAR I have never set foot in nor ever owned a gasser and even HATE gassers. The fact remains most mileage has still been in gassers.