What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

stever

The ravens did that up in AK, where a good friend of mine had a big old bus too. And yep, it sat in the yard 360 days out of the year storing tools and other junk. He actually ran groups around a few times a year, which was good, because he always found a few "lost" tools cleaning it out for the tours.

He finally got rid of it, but it took a while because...yep, it wasn't a diesel and people didn't want a gasser for hauling 30+ people around.

Remember, you don't own stuff, it owns you.

crkyolfrt

haha..I put 'diesel' in bold in a feeble attempt to make my post worthy of the thread..thank goodness this thread has a book marks which stretch a little from time to time.

My old guy has all but a couple seats removed for maximum storage room.

And yes...I sure do concur about being owned by stuff..
The majority of mine are tools or material that can be turned into real world usefulness..
That said, try to convince my old GF..
But if you asked her how many times I fixed her car with longer lasting results and for fewer dollars than her dealer after we parted (stuff like ABS sensors and such) she'll be the first to say that Steve kept my car safe and on a budget..ya..I'm still friends with her..
But I don't work on her car anymore

So did the ravens like to just rip and play or do you think they actually ingested the rubber? Buggers, eh..
We have ravens here too...they have never caused me grief that I am aware of..I sorta think think they are neat...they are so big..
We also have pileated woodpeckers (they're about the size of really BIG crows). When they go into a basswood you should see the chips fly, haha

Ok...I know ruking wants us back to diesel..and I'm ok with that

gagrice

I fell in love with that saddle brown leather in the 2013 Jeep GC Summit. It was exactly that color of natural leather. According to all I can find Jeep is dropping that color for their diesel JGC. So that is a mark against them. I could live with the darker brown in the VW Touareg. My wife did not care for it. So for me it is back to the drawing board. I will try to find a Sport with NAV. With the Cornsilk interior. I think it is just a bit too light. With either the dark brown or cornsilk I could get custom fitted Hawaiian pattern seat covers and get what I like. There is always the chance this vehicle will end up in Hawaii if we bail out of stinking California. I am also going back and getting a longer test drive in the ML350 Bluetec. Just to make sure I like the Touareg best.

gagrice

And yes...I sure do concur about being owned by stuff..

Just one last thing on storing STUFF. I had an expensive storage unit for 20 years. Last time they wanted to raise the rates I bought a 20 foot container. It is like new all steel and very well sealed. I have all the stored STUFF with room to spare. I don't know about up there. I got this set on my lot for $2200. I will pay for my storage rent in less than two year.

Getting back to diesels. Did you get to drive the GLK250 BT? I really like it. If it was just a bit bigger I would probably buy one. The prices are right here. They are also great on the Touareg. Salesman told me they have to give them away. Only selling about one per month in their store. He also told me how to get the best appraisal on my Sequoia with Carmax. And going through USAA to get the best price on the Touareg. They accept both for sales. No high pressure at all. I have run into 3 of the best salesmen in this quest in my entire life. Not a one was high pressure. Maybe German dealers are not so desperate to dump iron.

ruking1

"...Ok...I know ruking wants us back to diesel..and I'm ok with that "...

Its all good guy ! I am just as capable of getting off topic as any one else !

crkyolfrt

haha, I know..altho you show more perseverance than some of us :thumbup:

crkyolfrt

Great idea..I had considered a contr...altho a 40'r haha...
But got a great deal on the bus and like that I can move it if I have to. Probably have to do brake lines tho when that time comes. I start it regularly and keep the batteries topped up.
Your 20' likely has more room than my 76 passenger bus, altho laid out a bit dif of course..

Edit.. my guy is mouseproof too or I wouldn't keep it. That is a priority around here. I will be studying the air intake screens of any new car I look at pretty intently cuz I had the X Trail written off due to mouse infestation. The worst time of year here for that is Sept. I can't even work in the fr of the garage with the door open during Sept or Oct cuz they will try to go right between your feet the bastards..

Re the 250..I'm waiting to hear back from a VW dealer in same city..would like to drive both in same day and on same trip if possible since they are a fair drive..The one city closest to me that has a VW dlr didn't have any other than that one used 2010 for 35900. ouch...They were waiting for 2014s. If i went VW I'd really like to have that Aisin tranny. I trust it more, plus the other obvious gearing and urge and FE benefits of it. I also don't really want to maintain any air suspension. In order to get into the VW T, I do sorta need to find a 1 yr old one I think $ wise. A clean 12 or 13 would be fine if I had a confidence of its beginning in life. Years ago I swore I would never buy a 'new' car again unless I won a lottery or some other such luxury. I have some penny oil research stocks off the shores of Venezuela that would be great if they became even 10s of dollars stocks. I also would welcome a clean used GLK but am not confident of the odds until probably at least a year from now. One that commuted from Barrie to Toronto M-F for a year would be ideal. Lots of miles, (but not for the diesel or the Aisin) would keep the price low enough I could feel less guilty about it.

I'm really going to focus on seats and road/wind noise with these drives. It already does sound like the Touareg gets the nod on both counts though. Size-wise I know I would be happy with either altho I think would prefer the size of the MB. Plus..to be honest, I really don't need the luxury of the V6 in the VW so am more drawn to the MB. But if it does have an incessant wind noise, I'll likely not compromise in that regard. I am done with noise now..

You are a fair bit taller than I am so the ML's ingress/egress will be fine. I found my friends 2012 quite hard to get in and out of. Harder to get out of cuz I know I would mentally not allow myself to drag my big butt down the sides of the seat bolsters each time I got out.

That would be wonderful if you and your wife could entertain a Hawaii move..assuming it was not too inland and I do sorta assume you guys would not have to do that if you made the move.

ruking1

..."A clean 12 or 13 would be fine if I had a confidence of its beginning in life. "...

While it is certainly NO guarantee, one does increases the chances of hooking up with something, the more one gets the word out and roots around.

One of the first I was tempted with was a one year old (2011) VW T TDI (Sport) in a white and beige interior (probably my first choices.) They had a VERY good ZERO down, ZERO % and up to 72 months (then current MY 2012 max was 60 mo).

Another is some to ALL dealerships use fully loaded cars (I.E., VW T TDI LUX/EXEC) as upper management perks and sell them as demos. It of course is dealer maintained . There are some for one reason or another, a customer didn't really like (for whatever reasons) and it will sell for USED, albeit with no mileage to speak of.

gagrice

I learned some things from the very open VW Salesman yesterday. First is they only sell about one T-reg TDI per month. That is why the giveaway prices here in San Diego. Kearney Mesa VW is a GroupOne dealer. They can get vehicles from their other VW dealers. He said their dealer in Utah sells a lot of them. I would think the 2011s will be coming off of lease soon making them possibly good used options. Which is another thing that surprised me. He claims VW has the best lease deals in the industry. And 70% of their sales are by lease. Getting the best price via USAA and best appraisal on your trade-in from CarMax, made that trip worthwhile.

Looking for Touareg Sports with NAV is about as tough as finding a Lux with Saddle Brown interior. I have become much more patient since I turned 70. I may just wait and order what I want in a 2014 model. After I see the changes in the body style. If I don't like the changes it may be too late to find a 2013 I would buy. It sure would be nice to have someone on the inside at VW to ask questions of. Like, are the models with 19" wheels tuned for them or can you swap out for the 18" without any negative impact?

ruking1

Yes, I think you both are hitting on some of the both lesser know and more opaque aspects of the current VW and specifically Touareg TDI (late) MY's. GoodcarBadcar.net shows the monthly T sales. Rather than put a narrative to it, one can draw ones own conclusions. One heads up, 2013 T sales in June are down 19% from June's last year 2012.

Here is a blast from the past. When the 2003 Jetta TDI was bought, it was that generations BEST year (MK IV). It sold @ cost (below invoice) + $250 brokers fee. Unrelated, but that year, VWA lost @ least $ 1 B US. A series of factors made the 2009 Jetta TDI very favorable, but it might again fall under TMI.

In addition, The majority of VW TDI (Jetta, JSW, Passat, NB, Golf) buyers have always looked at the VW T TDI pretty much as an outlier (this is of course a sub group, within a sub group, further, within a subgroup). One narrative might be, WAY overpriced, aka SLOW sales). (for a VW) A lot of people who buy VW T's feel or complain the dealerships who sell T's should be more like high end dealerships rather than a ... VW dealership !! ?? . So oxymoronically, a lot of people turn out to be very few people. So on the topic of moving cars, there are great opportunities.

Cars.com shows 34 NEW 2012's VW T TDI's ( 671 for 2013 TDI's- less than 30% of those Sports). One narrative might be, one has the literal pick of the litter (albeit 1 yr old) ! Another might be, the litter is VERY small (probably a more pejorative take, but I think the point is made) But as you have pointed out, A T TDI ( something off a lease) is WAY cool, for someone else took the depreciation hit and a dealer can sell it now for profits unknown. Profits on a new one anybody can swag.

gagrice

I think you are right on all levels. First the Touareg TDI is a luxury SUV by most any standard. People are brand conscious. For me I want the most vehicle for my money. I think the Jeep GC diesel will have the same problem the Touareg TDI has. Top of the line pricing on a non luxury brand. In my comparison between the VW and MB diesel SUVs, I found the Touareg had standard many of the features Mercedes charges a lot for. One thing that stands out in the T-Regs I drove was the NAV and audio interface. It is light years ahead of Mercedes. Of course the free service over the first 3/36k miles on the VW, is a couple grand from MB. BMW also offers free service I think for 50k miles. Still looking for my perfect diesel SUV.

Just as a comparison. When we bought the Sequoia Limited we looked at the Lexus offerings. Our Sequoia has nicer interior than the GX470 being offered in 2007. The GX is also smaller with same gas usage. The GX is basically an over priced 4Runner. The LX470 was nicer and about $40k more. Pays to compare, you cannot go by the brand name.

ruking1

PG A1,SJMN, Tuesday July 2,2013

And they want us to shift greater percentages of the passenger vehicle fleet to plug in electrical?

Off topic: Headlines ( same page) "TRANSIT NIGHTMARE". They want us to shift to so called "MASS TRANSIT" and the unions can strike @ will !! ??? They are whining when the average BART (Rank & File) makes 80,000 per year ? Makes me wonder what percentage of those passengers make that much?

fintail

That reminds me of talking to a MB dealer in Georgia last year - he said the Bluetecs don't sell at all there - had an oddball E350 luxury trim model on the lot that he said he'd practically give away to me. Yet here, they seem to sell, eventually. I remember there was a car very similar to mine on the lot when I bought it - but it was silver. It was gone within a week.

I'd be shocked if there is any special tuning for 18" vs 19" wheels.

ruking1

I am not sure where to hang this but, both the 09 6 speed DSG and the 12 8 speed A/T have 10 year/100,000 miles drive train warranties.

gagrice

That is one of the big pluses for the TDI T-Reg. They are not selling as fast as I would expect. Maybe waiting for the 2014 updates. That does not go for VW as a whole. I think the TDI is helping them a lot, on overall flat sales so far this year.

• Best June and year-to-date for Passat with 10,874 and 56,119 units respectively
• Best June sales for Beetle since 2006 with 3,780 units delivered
• Best-ever year-to-date results for Tiguan with 15,526 units delivered
• June sales total 36,957 units, representing a 3.2 percent decrease versus the prior year
• High-mileage, TDI® Clean Diesel models accounted for 24.3 percent of sales in June and 22.1 percent of sales year-to-date, the best June and year-to-date results on record.


http://www.media.vw.com/newsrelease.do?&id=1410&allImage=1&teaser=volkswagen-ame- rica-reports-june-2013-sales&mid=

ruking1

This might be VW TDI tmi, but Touareg TDI percentage comes in second @ 47.3% (5000/10553) right behind JSW TDI's @ 85%.

gagrice

I think buyers are getting more selective. The MB dealer I was working with still has the same ML and GLK in stock that I test drove a month ago. Just got an email from him. I told him it was between the Touareg and the ML Bluetec. With me leaning toward the VW.

I got in a hurry when we bought the Sequoia and have half regretted it ever since. If I had held out for the GL diesel at the time, we would not be looking for a replacement now.

gagrice

Another factor on VW Touareg sales. When I asked about future Touaregs coming in, he did not think they would get anymore until the 2014s started rolling in. Many dealers do not have any Touaregs. This dealer only had the one Lux and no gassers. There was a shiny black T-Reg TDI parked in the lot with dealer plates. That was the general managers vehicle. Which he mentioned would be for sale. Not sure how many VW dealers there are in the USA. 642 sold last month is not a lot. It makes me wonder what is wrong with the 2012 TDIs still out there. I have a suspicion that some dealers just don't deal. That's the price take it or leave it. I have run into those before.

ruking1

I know for sure this will fall under the category of TMI. Tire size (adjustments) will actually fall into three areas:

1. VW certified special tools computers and software, (dealers do not optimize too much beyond factory specifications)
2. VAG.com (some indy shops, gurus and enthusiasts become almost more than expert and beyond users)
3. Custom to semi custom chip vendors and their vendors.

I have had the 03 TDI tweaked, once to optimize before a TB/WP change and AFTER a TB/WP change. Going deeper into TMI, the drill is to get the settings back to optimum, ops test, THEN tweak after it looks like it will hold optimum settings. The protocols are beyond my pay grade. The two gurus who have done it for me in the past ask me a series of baby talk questions (as I understand it) it is along the answer of YES, I want fries wid THAT and of course extra catsup.

ruking1

By way of 20/20 hind sight, the 5,000 VW T TDI units sold data, I could find NO WHERE on any VW marketing or even other vendors sites who either specialize or track these things. It was found by a member on another VW T TDI diesel forum somewhere in the NHTSA.gov. So anyone can google the site for the exact reference.

Indeed here are some latest (2011 in arrears obviously) safety data on estimated B's of miles 2,946 B
registered passenger vehicle fleet 257,512 M, and especially ETC. ETC.

NHTSA- FARS

The overall news? On the whole 2011 was the SAFEST in NHTSA recorded history !!!! Volume and RATE wise (even as the recordations go back way further than 1994)

I am sure it might be WAY too TMI to break out the passenger DIESEL rates !!! :sick: :shades: My swag is that in all categories percentage wise it is far safer than gassers !!

KCRam

Essentially a GTI that runs on #2

Autoblog - VW confirms Golf GTD diesel coming to US for 2016

KCRam - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host

stever

"The most glaring ice patch on the road to diesel acceptance, however, might come from Chevy's own price strategy. The Cruze Diesel sits near the top of the Cruze model range and although it's rather generously equipped, it's a good $5,000 dearer than the well-regarded, gasoline-engine Cruze Eco, which gets a markedly lower 39-mpg highway rating but at 33 mpg combined, is just 2 mpg in arrears of the Cruze Diesel, thanks in part to the Diesel's 27-mpg city rating.

Otherwise, the 2014 Cruze Diesel is mostly like other Cruzes, only better performing."

2014 Chevrolet Cruze Diesel First Drive

gagrice

If you look at the big picture the Cruze and PU trucks are all GM has to be proud of. The Cruze diesel will be their top of the line vehicle. I doubt it would come close to the Passat or Jetta TDI in a face off. Except on mileage it should be about the same. My guess is the Cruze is just stealing buyers from Impala and Malibu.

stever

Not many VW dealers up in my neck of the woods so that will help 'em. They really need a pickup though. Remember VW's plan for world dominion? It's tough going. Diesels are a bright spot though.

Volkswagen sales down this month, but company leaders say business is solid (nooga.com)

gagrice

Here is from someone that has the GLK diesel:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1c3012/350#MSG350

coontie66

Having once owned a VW Rabbit I am looking at a Chevy. I don't even register to own a VW.

gagrice

Having owned 5 GM trucks I have had it with GM. I will never buy another gas powered vehicle. And GM does not offer anything worth my looking at.
So far of the vehicles I have driven the VW Touareg is in the lead. That could change next week when I give the ML350 Bluetec a good run.

elias

we have to wait until 2016?!?!!? arrrgh!
well, it's good that it's "confirmed". (as if anything diesel in USA for 2016 can be confirmed today.)

I can't wait until 2016 for my next diesel vehicle - even 2 years with only gas powered vehicles seems too long.... waaaaaaaah.
I suppose if i buy a jetta TDI wagon or golf TDI tomorrow then i will probably put a smooth 100k on it by 2016... :} :shades: . TDI wagon is probably my #1 candidate 'next-vehicle' at this point.

ps - gagrice, can you reiterate for me why you are looking at the bigger diesel SUVs more than something like diesel GLK250? thanks.

elias

after having driven half gasser, half diesel, over >million miles, i can say with some confidence that diesel cruze owners are going to see well above 40 mpg overall mpg, including leadfoot drivers like me.

for TAXICAB use in NYC, that is where you will see 27 mpg in a chevy cruze diesel. anywhere else, the mpg will be way more.

i definitely won't be buying a diesel cruze however , due to no-manual-transmission, and no wagon form-factor. if diesel cruze had either stickshift or wagon/hatch shape, then i'd probably buy one. but no, so looks like it will be back to the VW showroom for me...

gagrice

I think the Jetta TDI wagon is a great choice. If I anticipated 100K over the next 3 years, it would be near the top of the list. As for the GLK250 bluetec. I love driving that little SUV. It is nimble and responsive. It is just a bit small coming down from a Sequoia. About the only thing we have used the Sequoia for is vacations long and short. That is why it only has 36k miles over nearly 6 years. Comfort over long days on the road is imperative.

So rather than go all the way down to the GLK size we are going to compromise with the ML or Touareg size SUV. That will be giving up 18" of length and doubling the MPG. The GLK gives up about 28" in size. Both the ML and Touareg have much larger fuel tanks giving us a much better range. The ML has more room by 14 cu feet according to Edmunds. The back storage does seem roomier. In real world mileage the Touareg edges out the ML. So one more test drive of the ML and we should be close to dealing. We have met 3 excellent sales people in this experience. I would be happy to buy from anyone of them. Email responses from Mercedes was far better than from VW dealers.

gagrice

we have to wait until 2016?!?!!? arrrgh!

How expensive would it be to take a Golf TDI and upgrade the engine and suspension to GTD parameters. I think the Jetta Sportswagen is what is sold in the EU as the Golf Estate. Get a Sportswagen and do all the trick stuff to it.

gagrice

From my perspective C&D has made the right choice. I have not driven the Porsche or Jeep GC diesel. But don't like the looks of the Cayenne and skeptical of the Jeep GC reliability.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-summit-ecodiese- l-4x4-vs-2013-volkswagen-touareg-tdi-2013-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec-4matic-201- 3-porsche-cayenne-diesel-2013-bmw-x5-xdrive35d-comparison-test

stever

So, you're going to be a hipster eh? :shades:

gagrice

Late this summer the Ram Promaster van will hit showrooms with a 3.0L 4 cylinder diesel option. Three new diesel vehicles from Fiat/Chrysler this year.

3.0L EcoDiesel - The 2014 Ram ProMaster marks the North American introduction of the potent 174 hp 3.0L I4 EcoDiesel engine that generates peak torque of 295 lb.-ft. at just 1,400 rpm. The engine features a number of refinements, including internal engine components, turbo and emission controls. Helping to reduced total cost of ownership, an oil-level sensor contributes to an oil-change schedule of up to 18,500 miles.

Efficient and winter proof as the unibody construction allowed the ProMaster to use a segment exclusive front-wheel-drive (FWD) system. The body-integral construction and multiple configurations allow Ram’s new 2014 ProMaster to be up-fitted for virtually every conceivable job.

Transmission(s) include the 62TE automatic is upgraded to accommodate the Ram ProMaster’s prodigious weight ratings. Specifically, its 3.86 final enables comfortable grade transit under full freight. The transmission more readily adopts the most appropriate ratio for a given driving situation. The numerically lower overall top gear ratio delivers a more economical highway operation.

The trailer/tow program comes standard with 62TE and the new M40 automated manual, exclusive to the 3.0L EcoDiesel.

The M40 gearbox delivers the efficiency of a manual with the functionality of an automatic. At its core, it is a manual, but gear shifts and clutch functions are accomplished with electro-hydraulic actuation system. The driver can opt for manual shift-lever inputs when desired.

Shift logic is adjusted according to the grade. The result is a well-connected driving experience that delivers the fuel economy required of a commercial van such as the Ram ProMaster.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-46549.html

gagrice

Hipster, hardly :shades:

I am not totally sold on any of them yet. One more drive of the ML bluetec should settle it. I am still curious, and will take my tape measure with me, how Mercedes gets 16 more cu feet total storage being less than 1 inch longer.

stever

You'll have to strike the Touareg off your list per Car & Driver then or never live it down.

Glad to see sliders are on the Ram commercial van, even if the driver's side one is optional. Not excited about the rear doors, but if I had a fork lift, I could understand. Hopefully the sliders (and hatch) will remain on whatever Fiat comes up with to replace the Caravans and T&Cs.

crkyolfrt

That clueless "British photographer" with his bollocks utterance, should try putting some oil in his crankcase..

And leave the writing to the journalists..

Talk about denial..he just epitomized the very ignorant misconceptions that, unfortunately, still exist out there..and shame on C&D for reprinting and sensationalizing such rubbish.

edit - ok, that's it for me, Aaron Robinson. You have less than ZERO credibility. I am not curious to read further than the ridiculous rubbish you wrote here:

"And some of the pumps we had to fill up at looked as if they had once been parking cones at a truck-driving school, all oily and battered and stuck out behind the station where their leaky nozzles could secretly drip-drip black slicks into the dust. Even the nicest ones at well-lit megaplazas had sheens of stinky stuff on the handles, something they often forget to mention as youÕre signing the papers on a $70,000 vehicle".

Idiot..I wonder if he tries to wipe his [non-permissible content removed] without toilet paper too, and then complains about the mess on his hands??

And I doubt VERY much they encountered more than ONE leaking nozzle out back. Leaks are profit and not too many stn owners are going to let profit leak on the ground and have the environmentalists down their back as a bonus..

To think people pay idiots like this to write..

And ya...I say that completely dismissing the profit potential supplied by anyone who buys and enjoys/believes any of the numerous Hollywood tabloids out there..a category group that Car and Driver is quickly becoming a candidate for.. :lemon:

gagrice

That small van with the diesel engine would be an ideal camp rig for you. When you hit bad weather roll out the sleeping bags on the folding platform you build inside the empty van. Get one just long enough to store your kayaks under the platform.

gagrice

I never read car magazines so am not familiar with any of the writers. I take stuff like the diesel on the ground with a grain of salt. I have traveled cross country with both the Diesel Passat and the MB Cruiser diesel and finding a clean place to fill was NEVER an issue. I figured he was just another eco nut getting his jabs in. I was really most interested in the comparison across the 5 vehicles. They pretty much paralleled my impressions. What is interesting is both comparison pieces gave best mileage to the Cayenne TDI. For them to get averages from 23-25 MPG with all the crazy driving is pretty good evidence the vehicles are superior to any gas or hybrid in the class. The Cayenne at 6.8 seconds to 60 MPH is pretty good as well. The surprise though it should not have been was the fastest from 30-50 and 50-70 MPH both went to the ML. Which has the most torque of the five. The lowest noise level at 70 MPH is very important as most of my driving is at that speed.

Last I think they would have been better off with the Touareg TDI Lux. All you get for the extra $6000 is 20" wheels which is a negative. More speakers big deal. Keyless ignition eh. And some sort of lane assist. Not worth the premium. I will try to negotiate for the 18" wheels on the lux if that is my final choice. And I am waiting to hear from my CPA if leasing is a good financial option.

ruking1

Just some.02 cent comments on your post. I have also never had ANY issues getting D2 in the US or CN: Pacific SouthWest into Southern CN, and from the Pacific Southwest to Southern Florida.

Getting 23 to 25 mpg with 20 in wheels (Porsche Cayenne) is not only superior to any (like model/competitor) gas or hybrid, but ...should actually be (EVEN) better with 18 in wheels !!

Probably the tire wear complaints of 19 in 20 in wheel owners (same tire brand across 18 in, 19 in, 20 in. ) posted in Cayenne/Touareg specific web sites has been the real metric and eye opener. The nearest I can figure is app 20% of the Touareg fleet run 18 in tires. SO de facto, the 18 in tire sized owners are in the MINORITY, that are in the zone to experience this benefit.

I do attribute part of the mpg and %'s I post to the smaller sized wheels. (this is obviously not all about diesel, but some credit has to go to engineering, albeit if the smaller (18 in) wheels are chosen.

Another unexpected benefit has been lower tire wear per 1/32nd in consumed, as witnessed by higher mileage (per 1/32nd in),.

However, not having done a minimum of an A/B test, I can only swag both the mpg and/or percentage: and wear per 1/32n in for either the 19/20 in tires.

So if I were to be a skeptic, I SHOULD say that I can probably do as well with the 19 in 20 in tires ( and probably just as importantly, VICE VERSA). I am not a skeptic so,.... NOT) .

So as PURELY a projection, the 18 in tires choice is FAR better than the 19 in tire sizes on the MB GLK 250 !!!

So a swag on the mpg (me getting 33 to 30 on 18 in vs 23 to 25 mpg on the 20 in, Porsche Cayenne) would be anywhere from 5 mpg to 10 mpg BETTER .

Purely anecdotal, and putting as many variables in ones favor as one can, I run 3 psi over oem recommended PSI or the highway economy oem recommendation (38/41 psi) I currently am getting 14,500 to 15,000 miles per 1/32nd in. Legally bald is 2/32nd, so if I pull it down then 120,000 miles. If I pull it with 3/32nd in remaining, then more like 105,000 miles.

gagrice

What tires came on your Touareg? I run all my vehicles at 38 PSI. The OEM Dumlops AT20s on the Sequoia were nearing the end at about 28,000 miles. They were also very noisy tires. I replaced with Michelin LTX and could not be happier with the tires.

I can understand companies offering the low profile tires for those that think looking cool is more important than a good ride. I will say the TDI Lux ride was very good.

Or you could get stuck with the BMW riding on 21" wheels and pay $741 per tire.

ruking1

Of the three oem tires, (that I know of) GY Eagle LS 2's (German origin). Needless to say they are #3 of 3, (albeit DISTANT third) . They are not well rated over all on Tire Rack.

So of 14 H rated tires, they are come in @ # 13. H rated tires are an interesting discussion by itself (@ 130 mph as a teaser) .

LOL and I am swallowing hard @ 764 for FOUR !! I can only WISH the Touareg tires (H rated) came in an Michelin LTX.

ruking1

from the Odyssey frame to the smaller Acura RDX frame, shedding 275+ #'s. @ first look seems like the MDX has 3rd set and higher levels of upgrades. In the process, a new and smaller and less powerful engine has been optimized to give the smaller framed quicker response and feeling more powerful. EPA went from 21 to 27 H EPA (all wheel drive app 4025 #'s). There were more details on Motorweek and edmunds.com.

stever

"Ford officials, speaking at a press event at the company's development center, said there are no plans to build a diesel-powered F-150 anytime soon.

"We don't see the dynamics for an F-150 diesel right now," said Raj Nair, Ford's group vice president of global product development. "If you go through the math, your payback is much longer and consumers are smart enough to know that."

Ford Says "No" to F-150 Diesel, but Chrysler Says Ram 1500 Diesel Makes Sense

Be interesting to see who says "mea culpa" first in a few years - Ford or Dodge.

stever

Trip to the Coast, MPG Report

"My wife looked over to the gauge cluster, noticed that the fuel gauge was still reading above half a tank, and asked: "When did you stop to get gas?"

Of course, I hadn't stopped. It's just that the Passat TDI has got so much potential range that it would throw a lot of people off. For that 40.1 mpg, I fuelled up with 10.4 gallons of diesel. The Passat's maximum tank capacity is listed at 18.5 gallons.

houdini1

So rather than go all the way down to the GLK size we are going to compromise with the ML or Touareg size SUV.

Just to make your choice more difficult, you should also drive the diesel GL when you try out the ML. Lot more room than the ML. Plus I would really just like to have your impression of the GL.

gagrice

I test drove the 2007 GL320 CDI when the dealer had a used one here in San Diego. At the time I was not impressed with the new 7 speed transmission or the $72k firm price with 12k miles on the odometer. It was and is a nice vehicle. Almost as big as the Sequoia. If you can find one the dealer will tack on a premium over MSRP. Near impossible to deal on. Sold as fast as they unload them. According to Edmunds there are 4 in CA with price up to $86k. I did ask the first time we test drove the GLK and ML. They had several GL gassers that they would give me a heck of a deal on. Too big and too expensive.

houdini1

After doing a little more research I agree with your assessment. C&D had a review and were not overly impressed with the 2013 diesel. 19 miles per gal highway, only about 3 mpg better than the 450. Starting with a base price of $63,000, the one they tested listed over $90,000 !!

Our 2013 LX 570 gets over 19 mpg highway and 15 around town. Not too good, but man that is a great vehicle. We love it. It is our 3rd LX and far and away the best of the bunch.

ruking1

Either can be almost 2 to 2 VW Touareg TDI's ! ? :shades:

Some to most of the write ups on the 4.5 L V8 diesel engine (Lexus/TLC) were not glowing either.

About a month ago had a pretty in-depth look at a Pearl White/beige interior 2013 TLC !! It feels to have gained app 500 #'s over my remaining 94/96 TLC's? The dealer wanted me to take it at least overnight to get acquainted with and FF 19 years to the new models. A very nice ride, I might add.

gagrice

C&D had a review and were not overly impressed with the 2013 diesel. 19 miles per gal highway

That is hard to believe. I looked at them in 2007 because a friend had one in Oregon. They got 27 MPG regularly on trips. Of course 30-32 MPG on the highway would be even better.

Looks like there is a wide range for those reporting on Fuelly. Two 2012 GL350 Bluetecs. One averaging 19.5 MPG the other averaging over a longer time frame 28.5 MPG. Very similar to the RX hybrid when it first hit the market.