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Here's another travel cost calculation site. This one is kind of fun because it pulls in recent fuel prices for its calculations and you can plug in either gas or diesel. (travelmath.com)
sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/12/28/lack-of-snow-not-stopping-travelers-from-heading-to-heavenly-ski-resort/
(Heavenly Valley, SLT, CA gondola location in the extreme upper far right background)
Slow SNOW and diesel news day ! I am not in this picture or report. !!
The Touareg TDI diesel is motoring (seemingly) fault free (44k) in the SOS DD environment.
I am steering clear of holiday BLACK out days. When the tourist's are not on the slopes, almost any place you go feels like ... YOUR slope !! Life is good !
Tis a good time for the past years' reflection and welcoming in the 14 NEW YEAR ! Happy pre new year to all !
Some 50" have fallen here and the "base" in my yard is 17". Unfortunately it's hard to get too excited about slow chairs and 500' of vertical. 8°F isn't too exciting either LOL.
"Sales of diesel cars now account for almost a quarter of Volkswagen Group’s U.S. sales"
Volkswagen's 2013 diesel-vehicle sales to top 100,000: Why it matters (latimes.com)
@ 9,300 ft., app 36 in has fallen. @6,200 ft., more like yours (18 in). I know they are spending a lot of money on MAN MADE snow !?
Heavenly Valley's claim to fame is being able to man make snow on 70% of the resort's runs.
I absolutely love the torque AND fuel mileage is also nice ! Both are especially exciting @ altitude.
Isn't that just because VWs are otherwise so unpopular due to their (statistically) poorer reliability (except the diesels apparently) and terrible resale (again, except the diesels)?
Was at the VW dealer yesterday, just looking at the diesels. It seems that going diesel is the only way to get a German-built Golf, but even if you go diesel your Jetta (including the Jetta wagons) or Beetle will be built in Mexico (with an engine shipped from Germany and a transmission shipped from Japan). 40% of the content in those cars is Mexican in origin.
The Passats of course are all built in Chattanooga, with diesel engines again shipped from Germany, EPA rated 30/42 or thereabouts although I know that some here will say they can achieve much higher without much effort. One thing that was nice to see was a widespread availability of manual transmissions on the lot among the diesels.
For me, however, it still doesn't pencil out - diesel in my area runs $0.30/gallon higher than premium unleaded, and most of the midsize sedans with 4-cylinder engines now run to about 35-38 mpg on regular (because of my driving pattern and habits, I never achieve less than the highway EPA figure in my day-to-day driving). The only enticement for me with the diesels is the ability to get away from the awful CVTs those midsize sedans are using to achieve those numbers.
Now with the Mazda6 I understand I might get the best of both worlds: choice of a manual or a 6-speed geared automatic to go with the diesel engine when it becomes available. And this in a vehicle that looks pretty good to my eyes and is a winner in all the reviews I have read.
I figure when I buy again in 3 years or so, it will either be diesel or hybrid, looking to get 45 mpg in the next ride. But right now as much as I hate the CVTness of the hybrids, they look to be winning in the dollars department in terms of reducing fuel costs, while giving me more options than JUST VW or luxury brands.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
CVT reviews are getting better, fwiw.
Even the ones that are getting good reviews are not to my tastes. I have yet to drive the Accord, but the others I have driven would never be in consideration. The only way I might put up with it is for the superlative mileage of a hybrid.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Still, the trend is encouraging (since there's not a lot of choice in many cases). The early reviews were really awful.
There's a reason luxury cars (except hybrid models) don't use CVTs...
And have you noticed that even though the reviews have improved, they always seem to damn CVTs with faint praise "The CVT in (latest Model X) is not totally a motorboating experience..."
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes the thing about "penciling out" is one of perspective. Our diesels get 50/42/31 mpg. We don't have to put near the fuel saving efforts that we would with (like model) gassers, etc. AND get way less mpg to boot. So to get us to switch BACK to gassers/hybrids/plug (just on that mpg metric alone) in would require levels of advantages with very high bars @ probably much higher layers of costs.
So for example, for the driving environments I find myself doing and actually have been doing for many years, diesels are by far the best adapted. At this stage, I still have many more miles in gassers than I do diesels.
mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_24803472/roadshow-4-gallon-gas-returning-california-by-march
$4.00 RUG on the way !!!
Notice how the gasoline customer in the first pic is dressed for FALL weather, even as how this article was dated 12/29/2013. Meanwhile its MINUS-10 in MN !! So much for global warming !
Last year on this day I paid $3.39 which was 10 cents less for RUG. On 2/21/2013 it had jumped to $4.09 at Costco. I would expect it to go higher this year. So far diesel has only moved up a couple cents. If RUG goes past diesel VW and Chevy should do well with their diesels.
I just ran an MSRP check between Honda Accords gasser/hybrid and it is a difference of $8,820.00.(29,945-21125) It is interesting that that is ok, and non diesel folks like to point to the Passat diesel/gasser difference of $2,100. That is interesting "penciling. "
I think it is pretty telling why Honda (Toyota, etc. also) does not do a diesel Accord, even with the 2004 Accord diesel fanfare !!
Doesn't VW do the same thing that Toyota and Honda do? They only offer the alt powertrain in higher-trim models, so the price differential must be compared between like models. Here, the Accord comparison should be between the hybrid and the EX I believe - all that junk on the EX is standard on the hybrid. So the actual differential is about $3500 - $25,685 vs $29,155 - still a LOT more than the VW diesels at $2000 or so.
Of course, word is the Accord hybrid will pull numbers of 50/45, which is pretty impressive for such a large vehicle and will save a lot of gas money each year vs the VW for someone with a mostly-city driving pattern.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No ! You are trying to mislead (again) by saying I was comparing different trims. It was you that was misleading to begin with. YET even your math sez HIGHER ! ?? So when you ask if VW does the SAME thing, I think your googling is incomplete. You also know that Honda is not even in the same league with VW (#3 ww), Toyota (#1 ww), GM (#2 ww). So don't another mistake by saying I am a Honda "Hater".
WHEN the 14 Accord Hybrid posts @ least 84+ mpg like the 12 Passat TDI DID (EPA 43 H), wake me !!By that time you can tell me what percentage it exceeded its EPA H rating. THEN we can compare that against the 95%+ over the Passats TDI EPA of 43 H
. 14 Accord hybrid mpg is vaporware at this point !! Gerdes and his close associate used a 12 Passat TDI to post an app 8,500 miles X country trip @ 77 mpg !? THERE was almost no discussion of "TRIM" levels. This beat his own 66 mpg record set in a hybrid. You can google for this.
Keep in mind I have absolutely NOTHING against ANYONE (you) buying a hybrid. Nor am I against ANYONE (you) paying more for a hybrid rather than buying a cheaper diesel. But also keep in mind THIS is a diesel thread. All the STUFF that you want to say "equalizes" things are almost immaterial to the topic of diesels. In fact that "STUFF", unnecessarily complicates something VERY simple.
Now in the real world, I would probably have bought a 04 Prius instead of a 04 Civic if they were the same price. Instead the Prius was 197% more! So why would I pay that much more for the SAME commute. !?
Whoa ruking, no intention to mislead I promise! I have no iron in the fire here - not an owner of either and both equally in the running if I buy a new car a few years from now.
I know some people have pulled some very impressive numbers in VW TDIs, but those are hypermilers trying to make a point, no?
As for the Accord hybrid, it has been posting 45-47 mpg in road testing that some of the magazines have been reporting on, so it is not vaporware at this point.
I think either way you go here you end up with a car at about the same price ($25-28K) and about the same interior space, with decent handling, power, and ride, and making more than 40 mpg in everyday driving. There doesn't seem to be a lot to distinguish them on paper, and I have yet to drive either (and probably won't until I get closer to actually purchasing one...or something else entirely).
For me, a big advantage that the VW has is that availability of a manual transmission. But I am mindful of the large premium for diesel in my area vs the RUG the Accord will use. I'm also mindful of the probable $2000-4000 extra it will cost to get one of these vs their gas counterparts, which will still make mid-30s for mpg.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For me, a big advantage that the VW has is that availability of a manual transmission. But I am mindful of the large premium for diesel in my area vs the RUG the Accord will use.
You seem to jump back and forth between gas and hybrid in your comparison to the VW diesels. I found the Edmunds TMV quite useful in my search for the perfect diesel SUV for us. Looking at the Camry hybrid, Accord hybrid and Passat TDI all in their lowest level which you seem to be interested in the diesel has the lowest TMV. The base Accord hybrid is a whopping $4618 more than the base Passat TDI. Toyota seems to be interested in competing in that group selling their Camry hybrid at just $243 more than the Passat TDI.
base model TMV
Camry hybrid $25,570
Passat TDI $25,327
Accord hybrid $29,945
If your VW dealer will not match Edmunds, USAA or Cars.com pricing find a different dealer. I see both Toyota and VW offer free maintenance the first two years. Looks like Honda is the company to avoid. Unless you like paying top dollar for a noisy riding clap trap unreliable vehicle. I'm not a Toyota fan. I have rented both Camry and Accord and the Camry is a far nicer vehicle IMO.
Checking Fuelly for the real mileage numbers. So far only 6 Accord hybrids are reporting with a 35 MPG average. There are over 900 Passat TDIs listed the most common mileage 42 MPG, which I would say is a safe average to expect. About 150 Camry hybrid owners are averaging about 40 MPG. You also mentioned the Golf TDI. Over 1000 owners have posted their mileage. Looks like you would get about 40 MPG as an average.
http://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/accord/2014/hybrid l4
You are confirming (again) that you are doing EXACTLY what you say you are NOT doing, as if you repeating it is going to change anything. Again let's move on about diesels. Your hybrid comments are more appropriate in the hybrid threads. But then you know that also.
It is interesting you seem to take the side of one hand clapping. Structurally your arguments have been shown to be... defective. ! You also seem to bring up that VW offers manual transmission, yet don't mention the DSG. Accord offers the CVT in the hybrid, and then you say there is not much on paper to separate the VW/Accord hybrid. Yet reading further acknowledge the same testers absolutely talk about the CVT. Accord also offers 6 speed M/A T's also. Honda gasser product lines don't even come close to matching diesel. So in that sense, VW beats both the gasser and gasser hybrids. It is cheaper also. You also quasi acknowledge the VW is cheaper. Yet still imply that I exaggerated, which I did not. Now I understand you don't like the numbers.
But hey, I am not even the messenger, even as you look for the messenger to SHOOT.
I think it is hard for you to acknowledge the better mpg component of the diesel over gassers and gasser hybrids. It also holds true for the better over all driving dynamics. So I can understand why you want to obfuscate the issues.
On the issue of the CVT's, my take is it is not ready for prime time. Just recently a friend asked me about which mini CUV/SUV was good. Among others (Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, etc.) I had pointed to the Subaru. Arguably Subaru makes some of the BEST cars on the American markets, albeit NON diesels. Each test driver mentioned the "rubber band like response" of the CVT and did NOT like it. (Sort of a jab like why did you even recommend a Subbie?
)
I think it should be apparent that a lot of oems have gone to CVT's to meet going forward mpg standards.
Have to disagree that hybrid comments are more appropriate in the hybrid threads. This discussion is about what it would take to convince you to buy a diesel. So comparisons with gassers and hybrids don't seem inappropriate - talking about price of the car, price of fuel, MPG, manufacturer - that's really the guts of the topic. Surely you don't want to simply compare one diesel sedan to another diesel sedan?
THEN, I think in that sense, this thread has always been about apples to oranges to kiwi to breadfruit to nuts. So be it. Diesel continues to hold the advantages high ground.
It has been apparent and for a LONG time (1 decade + that captured my interest) that "defections" to the dark side (really just kidding here) has been very very slow. I of course continue to point to the 5% DIESEL passenger vehicle fleet, half being (heavy) light trucks of app 257.4 M registered US vehicles, or 6.46 M diesel cars, or less than 2.5% of the fleet.
So for example, a friend just recently bought a (2.5 L gasser/hybrid/CVT) 13 Lexus ES 300H, which MSRP's above $45k. It, she says, impressively (I might add) gets 40 mpg. I think she probably tolerates the CVT as she does not speak of it; yet mentions it as one of the first things in the Subbie.
On the other hand, we get 41 mpg in (2.0 L DSG) a commute longer and much worse than hers and @ $23k or app $22k cheaper. My swag if we had to do her commute would post more like 41 to 44 mpg. For that difference, $22k buys either almost another Jetta TDI or @ today's prices ($3.86 gal) 5,700 gals of diesel fuel. To further complete the usefulness or some would deny, that is 233,678 miles MORE commuting !!!! ??? Now if I look at my yearly commuting requirements @ 14,000 miles, that would be 16.69 years of fuel.
SO, ... I want a gasser/hybrid because? All the stuff that really doesn't matter? The rubber band feeling? The 22k more? The 1 to 3 mpg LESS ?
We would buy app the same number of gals @ 40 to 41 mpg. over the coming years for commuting.
Not to keep on scratching the blackboard with fingernails, but VW also makes a KILLER supercharged V6 3.0 L hybrid Touareg !!! gasser/diesel/hybrid models (AKA if one is a gasser hybrid FANBOY !) Now if I wanted a gasser hybrid this one is truly killer !! Now I haven't driven it over multiple tank fulls, so I really can't tell you if it meets,exceeds or falls short of its EPA rated 24 mpg. I have been posting 31 to 33 mpg on the Touareg TDI or 29% better than hybrids EPA H of 24. Fuelly.com show s 1 hybrid doing 20 mpg. IF that is true, compared to the 31/33 mpg that is 55% to 65% better !! ?? Need I mention the Touareg hybrid is app $13 k more?
Indeed things could be better compared if Honda made an Accord TDI, to address Nippononly. It of course does NOT offer one on the US markets. The diesel one on the world and European markets mades Honda just barely competitive.
Not that I personally subscribe to this sentiment, but some knowledgeable auto pundits say REAL Honda's are the Acura line. Needless to say comparable Acura's are priced even HIGHER than VW's.
That is not correct. For starters, the gas Accord EX has a moonroof with tilt whereas the hybrid does not. Likewise, the Camry XLE gas has many features not available on the hybrid XLE.
There is a reason both Honda and Toyota will not let you directly comparison shop the hybrids with the gas models. Has it ever occurred to you why they do that?
Btw VW has ALL its Passat models on the same page for easy comparison shopping. They are not trying to hide anything from anyone.
That is hardly an argument to be made for the gassers. If you are 'meeting' EPA highway numbers on gassers with you driving style, then you will blow away the EPA diesel highway numbers with that same driving style!
The whole point diesel folks keep making is that they are able to meet or beat EPA numbers without modifying their driving style at all.
Meeting the EPA numbers without a change in driving style seems to be the case with Prii/Priuses too, but I'm not convinced you can say that about all hybrids.
Not 'SOME' people but a LOT of people. You would too if you drove one.
The hypermillers are not pulling merely impressive numbers, they are pulling mindblowing numbers that they themselves are unable to achieve on hybrids.
This is really not that difficult to understand. If you are exclusively driving in the city - stop and go style - then NOTHING will beat a hybrid. The whole upside to hybrids simply comes from regenerative braking.
On the other hand, hybrids become simple gas cars lugging around the extra weight of batteries on the highway. So let alone diesels, they will not even be able to outperform their comparably powered gas cousins.
So for pure city driving - a hybrid rules (which is why there are so many more hybrid taxis in NY these days).
For anything else, they are useless.
Another important aspect with all the hybrid sedans on the market. They have smaller trunks than their gas only siblings. May not be important until you go on a trip. I never seem to have too much space even when we had the Sequoia. I cannot imagine hauling a family in an Accord cross country.
Yeah, but my first trip to AK was in a VW Bug. Now we fill up the minivan for a two hour trip. You adjust.
Oh how well I remember my trip to AK with all my guns and valuables, in a VW bug. Best vehicle for the haul road back in 1970. I have gotten soft and we haul stuff back to the kids when we go. Plus relatives pile stuff in going back. You do adapt to what you have. How will you ever down size from a mini van???
The big empty does spoil you. Have to start hanging bikes off the back or put them on top I guess. Since we mostly just use them for tooling around the campgrounds, maybe I will break down and get that unicycle. I'm about over the soreness from borrowing one a couple of months ago LOL.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have seen one hybrid Jetta. According to one VW dealer they had to take a big loss to get rid of the Touareg Hybrid they had. Out of 6500 Jetta postings only 34 are hybrids. They favor that same 40 MPG. Like most hybrids the EPA rating is very optimistic. I would think the $8,500 premium on the Jetta Hybrid would chase off all but the greenest of buyers. I don't see any advantage to hybrids except the Prius for short around town commutes. A taxi is what it is best suited for IMO. Cheap to operate and people will not likely complain about the lousy ride, handling and noise. If I had a long commute where being stuck in traffic was a possibilty, I would want the nicest quietest vehicle I could afford. Mileage would be secondary. Just after a good stereo system.
Just looking around the "neighborhood," or shall I say the winter vacay set. This is "SUBBIE town right now ! In addition, there are literally loads of CUV/SUVs and lots of crew cab pick up trucks. Since there has been little to no snow, the HUGE campers are on the roads also. Because we talk about Prius' on this thread, there are a good number of them also.
@gagrice, still ignoring my "quietest" cars on Swedish roads link eh? I've ridden in quite a few Prius cabs now, even the Cs, and they all seem fine to me.
I'm not ignoring that list. I already told you the quietest would not match the Touareg TDI. I don't think they build cars for the EU that are quiet. The Touareg TDI was tested at 70 MPH and 64 dba. The best on your list was the Lexus LS 600h. Interestingly the LS460 is quieter than the top of the line Lexus Hybrid. Probably the whining motors etc. You cannot compare the Tiguan. It is $20k less than the Touareg. Not even close to the same level.
Top 10 Quietest Cars
Lexus LS 600h 65.9 dBA
Mercedes S-class 68.7
BMW 5-series 69.1
Volvo V70 69.5
Renault Mègane 69.6
Audi A6 69.9
Volvo S80 70.6
VW Tiguan 70.7
Toyota Prius 71.3
VW Passat 71.4
If you want a quiet ride at 70 MPH get a BMW X5 or VW Touareg TDI.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-summit-ecodiesel-4x4-vs-2013-volkswagen-touareg-tdi-2013-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec-4matic-2013-porsche-cayenne-diesel-2013-bmw-x5-xdrive35d-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-7
Repeating over and over that VWs are unreliable or that Prii are noisy doesn't make it so.
You must live in rich boomer greenie weenie land
Swedish roads are also nicer than most American roads, I'd bet - as they are yet another country that values public infrastructure over pity the rich fiscal policy.
My diesel E would be very quiet if not for the runflats - but that's the fault of suits rather than the car itself. If I was going to keep the car longterm, I'd change them asap.
I noticed my local Chevron went up a dime for RUG, diesel stayed the same.
Your list is suspect for me. I cannot imagine an Mercedes S being that noisy. I would be surprised if Swedish roads were as Crappy as ours in CA. Fact remains anything over 65db cruising down the interstate becomes an annoyance. Conversation in a quiet room is about 60db. At 70db you are at the noise level of a busy intersection or a vacuum cleaner at 10ft. According to your link the Prius and several other European vehicles are darn noisy at 56 MPH on the highway. And from my experience Hondas and Toyotas are unreliable and Vdubs are reliable.
btw, have you spent much time cruising around in a Prius?
A couple hours total. Which was plenty. My buddy that I advised to get the Prius loves it. He drives it like he stole it. We followed him up to Simi Valley one saturday morning. He got in the HOA lane and rarely went below 75 MPH. It was all I could do to keep up in the Sequoia. If you can stand the noise and rough ride it ain't a bad vehicle. Try to avoid even the smallest pot holes or it will jar your fillings out.
I understand why it might be noisier than a non hybrid due to weight saving efforts to prop up the hybrid tech/FE aspect, but I wonder why the crappy ride? Given the price of the things, there really isn't any excuse for a poor ride. It should ride at least as good as your average Corolla. Do they really ride that badly?
One of the things that irks me whenever I get interested in a Prius (their apparent dependability and use of NmH batteries is a draw) is the fact that you can't trailer tow, and even if you did mount a hitch for light duty towing, if you ever had trouble with the drivetrain, they would use that to opt out of wty claims. And even if they did honour a claim, I really do believe they have been geared/algorithmed for basically lighter loads, (if attempting to maintain any of the FE is still on the table). This would be most evident for hwy use. So again they are not conducive to hauling a trailer. I wonder if they do in the EU (England especially)?.. cuz trailer towing is as common there as tea for dinner.
The other thing that rarely gets properly compared whenever someone wants to try to put a Prius up against a VW TDI Golf or Jetta, is that the TDIs can simply annihilate (at will) any Prius. The last time I raised this conveniently forgotten fact to those who pop in for a short here on this forum, I was accused of being childish. I think it was the "eaten for lunch" remark that brought out that ridiculousness..But that IS exactly what the TDI can do with Toyota's pride and joy! But this fact is hard to accept by many who simply cannot bring themselves to admit that an oil burner really can pay for itself in many real-world owner situations AND provide a superior driving experience doing so.
As for ride quality and road and steering feel, (and quietness) there are precious few like-sized cars that can match VW with their Golfs and Jettas (and probably Passats too covering the mid-sized class..will be driving my buddies new '13 in the next month or so).
Hmmm..getting an Error 503 Service Unavailable: Guru Meditation XID
# varnish cache server message..whatever that is..
I think you have to be careful with the load in a Prius in general, much less towing (think Honda Element and complaints about that big empty and "low" weight capacity. It's 915 for a Prius V vs 996 in a Jetta Sportwagen TDI. (good comparison page at toyota.com -- pretty competitive segment).
The Prius cabs out in LA seem to keep up on the freeways just fine.
Odd error message that can indicate heavy server use (maybe we're getting flooded with late night posters...). Haven't seen any other complaints though, so maybe it's just you, lol.
Ya, it's like it wouldn't post. I ended up c/p'ing but eventually it posted.
Oh I believe the Prius can keep up, (in most circumstances on freeway {but not merging with the same confidence}) but not without a greater FE penalty than the SAME exercise with a TDI. Geez, this box is only giving me half a view of the sentence I'm typing, can't tell if I have made typos or not..in fact it almost disaperaed disappeared on me on me altofgether now
Actually YOU do !
I love visiting your area !
I don't think a modern car should transmit every little undulation in the road up to your feet. The Prius does and the Accord I rented did. The older Camry 2006 I believe we rented for a week in Canada Did not. The new Beetle TDI we used while they were servicing the Touareg was amazingly nice handling and riding. And fun to drive. We really don't need another vehicle or the Golf & Beetle TDI would be on the list for runabouts. Nothing long range. The Touareg is there for long trips.
diesel-hybrid VW, 100 mpg appears possible...
http://www.autoweek.nl/nieuws/26269/autoweek-lezer-spot-volkswagen-xl1
February 25, 2013. The Volkswagen XL1 is the most fuel-efficient production car in the world, with a fuel consumption value of 0.9 l/100 km. Thanks to its plug-in hybrid system, the two-seater can also cover a distance of up to 50 km in all-electric mode and therefore with zero local emissions.
http://www.desktopmachine.com/press/2004/Volkswagen_XL1/
In fact, on the official European combined driving cycle, the XL1 is rated at 261 mpg. European and American fuel-consumption tests are quite different, but VW engineers say an equivalent combined EPA city/highway number would be about 20 percent lower -- say, 209 mpg. What does that mean? It means you could drive the 2800 miles from Santa Monica Pier to downtown Manhattan on about 55 bucks' worth of fuel. And a bit of electricity.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1306_2013_volkswagen_xl1_first_drive/
**It would seem MT has miscalculated. .9L/100KM equals 313 MPG UK and 261 MPG US. But who's counting?
**
Thanks to a report in Wirtschafts Woche, we finally have a potential price tag for the 261-mpg car: 111,000 euros, or a little over US $146,000. VW tells Wirtschafts Woche that there should be plenty of demand for the car at that price from collectors and enthusiasts, even though we heard earlier that the car will likely be available for lease only.
The XL1 gets its name from the fact that it uses less than one liter of fuel to go 100 kilometers (using one liter would be equivalent to 235 mpg). Thus far, VW has built 50 of the slippery little things and plans on making another 200 for delivery in the spring of 2014 before ending the project. "The car is more a lighthouse than a business model," VW's Ulrich Hackenberg told Wirtschafts Woche (translated). We got to drive the XL1 earlier this year – you can read all about that here.
http://green.autoblog.com/2013/09/04/vw-xl1-to-carry-145000-price-tag/
You can expand the box with the "diagonal arrows". You have to minimize it again to post though. Or to Attach a File.
[edit] Just discovered from another member that some browsers (Chrome at least) have 6 dots in the lower right corner of the post box. You can grab those dots and expand the posting box. That's a nice trick because you don't lose the Save Comment button.
green.autoblog.com/2013/12/17/epa-says-mazda-most-fuel-efficient-automaker/
27.5 MPG AVG
..."has eschewed hybrid and plug-in power trains in favor of its"...
It is interesting to see in print (defacto) what I have been saying in other posts in this thread. "Prious's" UTILITY: lets Toyota sell its BIGGER and full line of vehicles, aka LESS fuel efficient vehicles
..."Chrysler/Fiat filled out the bottom of the list with 21.6 mpg, just beaten by General Motors with 22 mpg. Chrysler/Fiat did have the largest year-over-year fuel economy jump at 1.5 mpg, however."..
Seems FORD didn't even make the list
On a diesel mpg note, for me it was interesting to note, even in a sub 5,000# CUV, the VW Touareg (mine/Gagrice's) EXCEEDS/meets the # 1's FLEET AVG of 27.5 mpg.
But then on the other hand CR (a staffer) can not wait to get its hands (testing) hands on a Corvette engine (GASSER) STUFFED in the now highly rated Chevrolet (SS) !!!
http://autos.yahoo.com/news/just-chevrolet-ss-sedan-nascar-silhouette-corvette-engine-140000176.html
Might be a safe bet they do not AVG 27.5 mpg ! ?
Having a "halo" vehicle is a good way to get people into the showroom and drive sales. Usually people opt for the cheaper rigs though.
So many of you Californicators moved up here back in the 80s and 90s
Regarding Prius noise - at least in my friend's C, in town it is fine, but on the highway it's not the most refined thing, especially when the chainsaw engine has to work.