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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Not to mention another Tesla Supercharger station location.
Well you can say you ordered a SALAD there (albeit, steak SALAD) LOL.
Yes, essentially one has the choice of N/S- S/N roads. Highways 1/101/5 come to mind. I am sure you saw grape production in areas off the 101, literally as far as the eyes could see. There are literally and figuratively loads of wineries with tasting to boot. Paso Robles ALONE lists app 189 wineries !! /Down through Santa Barbara, easily 584 + wineries .
The wine buyer for Costco (there is a Costco in Santa Barbara, aka Goleta) stocks it with some of the (TMI) finest selection of wines and spirits, (MOST impressive for a NON sommelier) AND some of the BEST M,F,P, in the literal world. Julie Child, before she passed away was a real fan of the place AND said so.
Backcountry ski touring here today. Not flat...thank goodness for skins.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
I gave mine away when we moved to Boise. A split snowboard would be a fun toy too. Then again, thank goodness for lifts.
"(Diesel) is a big deal,"
Not in a good way for drivers though.
"Consumers are increasingly paying attention.
"There are a lot more customers nowadays who weigh the pros and cons" of diesel vs. gasoline, said Brad Baker, a sales representative at Badger Truck Center in Milwaukee. "(Diesel) costs more. It never used to.
"More and more people are putting a pencil to it and saying, 'I can get by with a gasoline engine,'" he added. "We've gone through this conversation quite a bit the last three or four years for sure — more than we used to."
Diesel prices topping gas by 56 cents a gallon nationally (jsonline.com)
From the article:
Right now, though, "All the gains you scoop up with the much better mileage, you are losing on the pump price," Ritterbusch said.
That is a bit over the top and just not true. The break even for me today would be diesel selling for $6.12 per gallon. Or gas selling for $2.25 per gallon. I don't see that ever happening. And I would still not have the highway performance in my Sequoia that the diesel engine offers. Until you cruise up a long grade at 80 MPH without downshifting in cruise control, you will not understand what real torque offers. The difference here today is under 40 cents. That makes driving the T-Reg TDI a bargain. If gas goes down to $2 and diesel stays around $4, I will drive the Lexus and Nissan more. I don't see that happening.
The real issue is not that journalists can't do math, it's just the prevailing "wisdom".
I don't think the mentality has changed much over the last 100+ years. Rockefeller convinced the buyers his worthless gas was what they needed to run their horseless carriages. And that mentality is pushed through the corporate owned media to this day. I am just thankful I have a choice now. It has been a long 15 years since logging onto Edmunds looking for a Ford diesel PU truck that I had seen with my own two eyes after it went from the tip of So America to the Arctic ocean with an average 45 MPG. Of course the Powers will never allow that to happen here.
Long story short/underlying assumption: RUG/PUG is produced in higher ratios than diesel for each barrel of oil. Another is the same folks who (are diesel haters) YET push for better mpg, totally try to dis/ignore the 30-60% diesel mpg ADVANTAGE's. In line with that, so does anyone really think the US auto unions are going to agree with big three management to stop making big three American TRUCKS ( higher fuel users AND highest profit % products) ????? Who reasonably thinks the majority of folks will give up the BIG trucks for Fiat 500 sized autos?
Now that the truth has percolated to the surface that the US is one of the most abundant places on the earth for oil (all energy sources really), not to mention that it is becoming the "prevailing wisdom," AND the fact that US domestic gasoline (RUG/PUG) consumption has been waning due to a host of reasons: how long can the CONGRESS hold out against dwindling oil industry dynamics against EXPORTING RUG/PUG to domestically produced oil ??????
Unless the new mpg standards are "suspended and/or chucked" diesel products are an integral part and parcel of the NEW/ forward mpg standards. Why do I say that? due to past hysterical and historical behavior. Any number of diesel products are capable of hitting those numbers with from OLD technologies, aka to off the shelf.
..."(Diesel) costs more. It never used to.
"More and more people are putting a pencil to it and saying, 'I can get by with a gasoline engine,'" he added. "We've gone through this conversation quite a bit the last three or four years for sure — more than we used to."
Diesel prices topping gas by 56 cents a gallon nationally (jsonline.com)"....
The whole time I have owned diesels (11 years and 305 to 310k miles) DIESEL fuel has the overwhelmingly time and percentage to ALWAYS cost more !!!!!!!
Some of the reasons diesel costs more are due to higher taxations AND the fact a growing percentage of diesel is EXPORTED. What do folks think will happen to RUG/PUG prices when those products are EXPORTED, or raise taxes to further discourage domestic use ???????
It's not convinced that prices would fall if the US allowed the export of crude*. I rather favor the idea of the ban, because that means that the "ore" gets converted into a finished product in the US. Around the UP, tons of valuable copper was extracted but the ore went elsewhere for refining and manufacturing and the profits went to those places. Mostly what the UP was left with were unemployed miners and tailings. I bet Port Arthur doesn't support lifting the ban.
*Could the U.S. Export Crude Oil? It's Time to Rethink the Unthinkable (dailyfinance.com)
Perhaps I was unclear. The RUG/PUG prices would RISE !! So would taxations.
..." Mostly what the UP was left with were unemployed miners and tailings. I bet Port Arthur doesn't support lifting the ban"...
Indeed that is what has been happening and on schedule to (democratic) coal miners. Another past example were PNW timber companies and workers.
I completely agree. Too bad the Eco nuts with very LOUD voices are running the show both at the EPA and local regulatory agencies. Why fight with all the regulations involved in processing raw materials when you can put it on a ship and buy the finished products without all the hassles? The Feds and states put roadblocks everywhere on processing Everything from coal to REEs. We are in a global competition. We are coming up short on just about everything being made. But hey, we got clean air and water in some places for the unemployed to drink and breath.
This was posted on an MB forum - too short a jaunt to really be useful, but nice numbers. 2014 E250:
I took about a 100 mile drive today, needle moved about 1/8th, so I guess it was doing well. Almost a year in now, no regrets about diesel, and if I pick another new or late model MB, it will definitely be a diesel.
I would guess you are the average diesel buyer that can not go back to the inferior gas engines. I will never go back to gas. The price of Diesel is irrelevant to me.
That is impressive mileage. I believe well within the capability of that vehicle.
PS
You should post on Fuelly if you have not done so already.
I like the feel and torque of a modern diesel - I like how there's just a little vibration and noise at cold idle, and the mileage is good, too. I don't want a car that is silent when started.
I haven't tracked my mileage too closely, but the main trip computer hasn't been reset in over 7K miles - I should see what it is reading now.
The interesting parts are the "Eco and regulatory types, unions and disenfranchised workers are in different wings of the same party. It would be interesting to find out the party declarations are amongst the unemployed to under employed. Estimates of those populations are 25%.
Higher fuel prices are acknowledged by many economists to be upfront and de facto taxations.
Indeed the CAPABILITY for 70 +plus mpg is SO 33 YEARS ago !!! (almost a BIBLICAL generation )
..."TopGear.com converted a 1981 Volkswagen Rabbit Diesel into an eco-friendly 70-plus US MPG bunny that hits 60 MPH in 7 seconds all for under $7,000.
After two months of non-stop working, the TopGear.com team surpassed their goals: They managed to not only hit 0 to 60 mph in 7.09 seconds, they achieved a fuel-economy figure of 84-US MPG (100 Imperial MPG, 2.8L/100km). Malone Tuning Ltd. diagnosed a cruise-control issue, supplied with a FlashZilla programmer for e-mail tuning support, and provided a special ECU tune that boosts both performance and fuel economy. One of Malone Tuning Ltd.’s dealers in California was also kind enough to provide diagnosis and replacement for an injection pump issue that TopGear.com were having. Their 0 to 60 MPH time is now around 6 seconds although that has not been officially measured. We’re all pleased with the results!
READ MORE"...
motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/articletype/categoryview/categoryid/139/project-sipster.aspx
EV problems in high techie land (SAP, PALO ALTO, CA campus for example) . If the response is, what is SAP ?? Ah shift to YAHOO !!!!! ?????
Energy Shortage: "EV drivers not getting a charge out of lack of ports". by Dana Hull PG A1, SJMN, Monday January 20,2013
mercurynews.com/business/ci_24947237/too-many-electric-cars-not-enough-workplace-chargers
Rather than quote the article in today's MLK day news paper, ABOVE are the hard copy and E version references. It seems the problem is EACH EV car needs a place to "dock" ( albeit, park) when parked in company parking lots !!
It is literally and absolutely dumbfounding that Envirocons, EV advocates did NOT even anticipated this, let alone think that a minimum of 258 M electrical charging stations aka "plugs" would not be needed for environmental electrical nirvana (Total religious conversion, aka daily electrical COMMUNION! @ high prices??? Don't forget the old Black Berry religious PRAYERS !! ???)!! And this is environmentally friendly because????????? Thats the good news !! The bad news says a CEO of a "charging company" ...If you don't maintain a 2 to 1 ratio you are DEAD".... So a minimum of now 516 M charging stations are even more environmentally friendly.... BECAUSE !!! ???????
Further good news? Each one COSTS app $$$$$$ 2.5k PER.
So to add some nail raking across the old school chalk board. What does an employee get for saving the company from having to put in a $2,500 charger and free charges for driving a diesel to work?
And not being a part of "charger rage"?
I am telling you, one can't even make this CRAP UP !!!!
The plugs are a big pain. Saw that all over Anchorage when people wanted to plug their car block heaters in at work during the long cold winter days. So people would be fighting over the plug-in spots and the rest of us would be tripping over the cords trying to get to the front door. Half the time the outlet would be dead too or would get destroyed by a bumper or plow. Manipulating frozen cords was a lot of fun too.
They really need those induction kind of chargers buried in the asphalt, like the new tablet and cell phone chargers. Well, what they really need is the 90 second battery change.
Well you got to hand it to that Tim Allen character in TOOL TIME, nothing is better than MORE POWER !!!!!!! AW ! AW ! AW !
And don't forget the brave new world as WE as 3rd world.01 nation try to CONVERT 3rd world .024 countries that use little to no power into mini CHINA's, so to speak.
AKA Dennis Rodman with North Korea ?????
Data from my car:
Don't know if it is good or bad, but for a 4000+ lb car with 400lb/ft and all of the stop and go gridlock slogging I do, maybe not bad.
Given your mileage, what have been the mpg's per tank full? I take it for the mileage and hours the mpg is 32.4. @ cumulative avg speed of 29 mph. What would you swag would be the gassers equivalent?
I don't always check my mileage, but like with any car it depends on conditions. On the commuting grind (city streets), it's probably mid 20s, not much better than a gasser. But highway cruising can yield around 40, which is about 10 more than the gasser.
Hard to believe that you are already looking at the last year of your lease. You need to get out on the road a bit more and get your average up.
True. My <20mph average commute speed doesn't help either. People who don't live in densely populated areas with high-ish population growth and poor traffic controls might not be able to imagine it, or tolerate it.
I do have several road trips planned for the year, maybe one big to Montana and up to Banff. I could be out of the car as early as October if I do a pull forward, still haven't made up my mind.
So you have not put many miles on your car. I have that many since Sept 1st. Of course 5000 miles to Indiana and back are most of it. I would say your best bet is the E250 Bluetec. I don't know if any of the other German 4 cylinder diesels compare. BMW has the 328D in both sedan and wagon that are getting some real impressive economy. Most are pushing in the high 30s combined. The BMW dealer may be more inclined to take a super clean E diesel in trade.
I have a few more miles than on that readout as the computer was reset early on, but I am still under 8000. What can I say, I live close to work, and don't have time for a cross country trip. I am going to try to drive a bit this summer, but I certainly won't go over my allotment.
E250 or maybe the upcoming new 2015 C250 diesel (yes, it's coming, at least in sedan form) would work fine. I am curious about the lighter engine in the E, or the lighter car with that same engine for the C - seems to me it would have both better performance and mileage. Deals and cash flow predictions will determine my next move.
@fintail
Definitely take a lengthy test drive of a new 4 cyl diesel. The F30 328xd I drove was nice & economical, but last year when I drove an E90 335d I was in love with its freight train like torque;)
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
It is really good to see more OEMS and models getting into the diesel segment. The other angle seems to be none of the diesel participants are resting on any laurels, as there seems to be constant improvement/s.
I think the MB 2.1 L TTDIs (369 # ft of torque) was the product that launched the proverbial throwing down of the gauntlet. In addition to higher HP/Torque figures, engines are getting smaller and mpg is getting better !! Diesel on !
Boy do I agree with that. If MB had offered the ML250 Bluetec here I would have bought it. I don't think it would offer the driving pleasure of the Touareg TDI. But for luxury with great mileage it is on top of the heap.
In a sudden change of heart, Mercedes-Benz has indefinitely shelved plans to sell the four-cylinder-diesel-powered ML250 BlueTec in the U.S. The ML250 would have been powered by the same basic 2.1-liter twin-turbo diesel that’s found in the new-for-2013 GLK250 BlueTec. While Mercedes has no definitive timeframe to bring the ML250 stateside, we understand that it definitely won’t arrive for 2014 as originally planned, but it’s possible the SUV could come a year later as a 2015 model.
Benz offered no explanation for the delay, but we believe that the company is happy with the success of the ML350 BlueTec six-cylinder diesel, which fetches around 15 percent of all MLs sold in the U.S. The Stuttgart-based manufacturer never announced whether the four-cylinder would replace or supplement the six-cylinder, but either decision is fraught with peril. Replacing the torquey and pleasing V-6 with a four-pot would drag the M-class to a lower point in the marketplace, positioned uncomfortably close to the GLK250 BlueTec. If the 250 mill was merely to be another diesel offering in the ML lineup, it could cannibalize sales from the larger, more expensive 350 BlueTec.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/mercedes-benz-re-evaluating-bringing-ml250-bluetec-to-u-s-wont-come-for-2014/
The 328xd wagon could be a cool car, probably high residuals too.
That engine might also be a bit taxed (according to American tastes) for something as heavy as an ML.
From the forums I read, the E250 seems to be selling OK - several people have one already. But it's much more of a MB traditionalist car than an ML.
For sure the E is all Mercedes where the ML/GL are purely American. Can't even buy one on the EU delivery plan.
Boy do I agree with that. If MB had offered the ML250 Bluetec here I would have bought it. I don't think it would offer the driving pleasure of the Touareg TDI. But for luxury with great mileage it is on top of the heap.
In a sudden change of heart, Mercedes-Benz has indefinitely shelved plans to sell the four-cylinder-diesel-powered ML250 BlueTec in the U.S. The ML250 would have been powered by the same basic 2.1-liter twin-turbo diesel that’s found in the new-for-2013 GLK250 BlueTec. While Mercedes has no definitive timeframe to bring the ML250 stateside, we understand that it definitely won’t arrive for 2014 as originally planned, but it’s possible the SUV could come a year later as a 2015 model.
Benz offered no explanation for the delay, but we believe that the company is happy with the success of the ML350 BlueTec six-cylinder diesel, which fetches around 15 percent of all MLs sold in the U.S. The Stuttgart-based manufacturer never announced whether the four-cylinder would replace or supplement the six-cylinder, but either decision is fraught with peril. Replacing the torquey and pleasing V-6 with a four-pot would drag the M-class to a lower point in the marketplace, positioned uncomfortably close to the GLK250 BlueTec. If the 250 mill was merely to be another diesel offering in the ML lineup, it could cannibalize sales from the larger, more expensive 350 BlueTec.
Actually your first paragraph is another good reason to have even and ever more diesel options for increasingly more models, be they of EXTREME luxury to more utilitarian.
Aother reason is that MB has figured out (via Mazda, Honda, et al) there are really no penalties to announce a diesel model and do not let it to market when specified.
Hm, think those announcements may be taking some people out of the market?
"Cadillac boss Robert E. Ferguson wants a small crossover vehicle and a diesel engine strategy.
During an interview at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show, Ferguson told Edmunds that he "would love to have a diesel engine for all of our Cadillacs this decade. I think that would speed our growth in Europe, and it would help us with environmental issues here and in Asia."
Cadillac's Wish List Includes Diesel Engines, Small Crossover
I would say undoubtedly. NO matter what is decided, some folks do and will not like it: either way. The effects or consequences might be unknown. It might/ not be statistically significant
In the context of TDI growth, despite decades of missteps, called and un called for vilifications, myths, outright LIES and massive steps such as legislation and regulations to make diesel uneconomical, no. Basically in a decade, the growth % of passenger diesels. has been very good. GM/Cadillac basically is signaling it sees the potential and evidently wants part of the action. To state the utter obvious is GM/Cadillac will have to play massive catch up. The sound of the OTHER HAND clapping is that until the Ram light (er) truck offering, there has been precious little on the TDI market. I think when a diesel is offered in the the truck platform most bought ( Ram 1500 F150 and GM equivalents), it will be a very very hot market AND diesel cars will take off, with or without Cadillac. Keep in mind 75% of the passenger vehicle fleet are still LARGE cars to light trucks. Cadillac has done well with the Corvette V8. They have been making strides in mpg for a so called technologically old V8. Not many folks if they had a choice would turn down better fuel mileage for worse fuel mileage. Even if they did, better mpg is one stated goal of the legislative and regulatory bodies. I am sure Cadillac has to do its share for GM.
GM better get on the phone to Opel. I don't think they have the engineering prowess to catch up with the other German nameplates. They may get diesels from Italy as the engines for the Jeep GC were designed for some GM vehicles in the EU. Though VM Motori is maxed out right now trying to keep up with orders. I don't think GM has an SUV in a league with the Jeep GC. Mostly light weight foo foo rigs.
That reminds me, saw a Chevy Equinox (I think) today with a plow on the front. That was different. Most plow blades are on trucks and a goodly number of them are diesels.
Slow news diesel day.
Rug $3.34
Mgug $3.44
Pug $3.58
D2 $3.89
Upgrade in the mountains, little to NO traffic. The visibility was EXCELLENT !!! The sun was shining ! WOW !
The other day I had gone to one of the local VW dealers to get a part for the 03 Jetta TDI. I wound up talking to a shop foreman (about TDI shop issues and for the better part of 1/2 hr) and getting the latest 411 on the 14 VW TDI line and beyond. Absoultely no pressure to buy, but everyone asked if I wanted to take the three I was interested in either for test rides or overnight. The owner of the dealership and sales manager slipped into the conversation and asked me if I wanted to partake in lunch (they had ordered take out) ?
I really got the over all feeling of the efforts for constant product improvement AND the one that I and most folks are interested in the "back end" reliability and durability. Lastly, the hopefully steady effort to get beyond the "old" VW Corp attitude. They had even offered to wash my "dirty" diesel, which I declined due to making the SOS/DD trip the next day. So far so good.
I think this was a gripe tweet.
Another SLOW (diesel) news day. Fueled the 03 Jetta TDI (@ past 181,000 + miles) 613 miles (low fuel lamp and buzzer came on and got annoying) with 12.3 gal (what a lightweight eh? I still had 2.2 gal left: COULD have posted 723 miles?) for 49.84 mpg.
I've seen similar on lower end rental cars in Europe, probably to prevent goofy Murican tourists from filling it with gasoline.
Since you have, you might want to post the per gal equivalent of fuel @ those times. The per mile cost (fuel) should indicate why it (high mpg cars) has been/ continues to be "limited to excluded" here.
It almost seems like light years ago, waxing nostalgic for .0371 cents per mile driven right before Hurricane Katrina, filling in a suburb of New Orleans. Although looking back, I don't miss the HUMIDITY.
When the 2025 54.5? mpg new standard is implemented, washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/autos-must-average-545-mpg-by-2025-new-epa-standards-are-expected-to-say/2012/08/28/2c47924a-f117-11e1-892d-bc92fee603a7_story.html what do you think are the chances for .0371 cents per mile fuel ??? (regardless of mpg)
Let alone, what it is today under the 49.84 mpg @ 3.89 per gal?
I have no illusions about what is in store for the future or driving. I am surprised the Feds have not doubled the gas/D2 tax already. Probably fear of making the economic mess they have created even worse. We have about the highest priced fuel in the Nation here in CA and it has not helped to alleviate the traffic at all. CA still has the highest tax on gasoline at 70.87 cents per gallon. Three states have passed up CA on diesel tax. CT now tops that list at 79.3 cents per gallon.
http://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas-overview/industry-economics/~/media/Files/Statistics/state-motor-fuel-taxes-report-summary.pdf
diesels are plenty fun/nice to drive, even with automatic transmissions sometimes. but for maximum fun, evidently a stickshift and gas engine are required in USA.
maybe VW GTD in a couple years will get close enough to monster-torque territory to be as fun as a performance V8 car with stickshift. but i doubt it.
the 335d would have been astounding with a stickshift! 328d with stick has got to be fun but unfortunately is nowhere near the monster-torque territory available in gasser-stickshift-cars.
in euro-land where stickshift/big-diesel-engines are available, which would be the most torquey vehicle on sale today ?
For my .02 cents, the SMARTEST thing CA can do is to auger for the 25th to 50th state ranking. In line with that, RE appropriate the highway funds only for real highway purposes !!!!!!!! Right now the majority of "highway funds" are used for anything BUT highway purposes or as a colorful way once coined: highway robbery.
Here is a link to the "realities" POLITICAL and otherwise, behind the 54.5 mpg 2025 hard core STANDARD.
(30 ish, very Obama ISH ?????? )
For my .02 cents the 12 VW T TDI is already there, albeit 13 years EARLIER???? !!!!!
logistics.about.com/b/2012/08/29/new-fuel-standards-for-2025.htm
If I decide to keep the 12 VW T TDI till then, I might have some REAL miles on it !! So far tire wear has been very very good !! So I would just do whatever alignment cycles and tires R/R. I am even surprised !! I will go back to zzzzzzzzz now !
Politics and crony capitalism at its best. What tires came on your Touareg? Are they wearing pretty well? Mine has the Good Year Eagle LS 19". I hope they wear better than the Dumlops Toyota put on their top of the line Sequoia. At least the Good Years are very quiet and good handling. Have not had them out in the rain with our drought conditions.
So I take it you are not threatening to buy a monster torque GASSER in any case? You do know of course a lot of monster torque gassers are dropping stick shifts? I am glad to see diesels are by and large keeping M/T's as an option.
Perhaps if Justin Bieber was behind the rented Lambo with stick shift he would not be in the pickle he is in? He is racking up a series of demonstrated behavior episodes indicating he is not the crunchiest pickle in the barrel.
ruking1, i seem to require one monster-torque-stickshift vehicle at all times.
So if i am blessed with with enough years, I am likely to buy another monster-torque gasser stickshift vehicle, probably corvette or camaro or challenger. (It would be after/if/when maintaining 05 GTO proves too difficult or costly...)
Lamborghini is not on shopping list, but i'd probably have to test a mustang GT too...
For better or worse, all the fun/stickshift/monster-torque vehicles available in USA are gassers and have been for a Long Time!!! i would love to try a monster-torque diesel stickshift vehicle though - even if it's a truck (Ram 1500 diesel with stickshift?!?!?!?:) .
The same tires as yours came on mine GY LS2's H rated, only 18 in. Yes, they were wearing well ! WAY of topic on the 94 TLC, we got 90,000 miles+ plus on a set of Yokohama Geolander G051's, but these are not even in the same league as the H rated. They were pulled (early) due to a bubble developing in one tire. (probably took a huge road shock or man defect, obviously not covered under warranty) Another reason they were approaching 9 years old.
The rest is a TMI account.
! took a nail in a non repairable area @ 35,700 miles, with app 14,500 miles per 1/32nd in consumption ( MINUS - 2.46/32nds in, FOR 7.54 /32nd in REMAINING ). I had been following oem rotation cycles of 10,000 miles and 3 psi (oem highway recommendation @ 36/41 psi) The consumer ratings on the GY LS2 model itself ( and VW T owners) are all over the place. Most T owners do not rate them well. ! ?
OEM recommends 4 tire replacement, but the local tire guru knowing both the oem recommendations and situation, said I could R/R two (one axle- cheaper) and it should have been fine.
I chose the 4 tire and switch to Continental LX20's (non oem ). It seemed to be:
I was going to do 10,000 miles tire rotations, but the local tire guru's made a VERY strong case for 5,000 miles tire rotation. It was more palatable, as they both mentioned it was included in the price.
. This is not to mention I can walk home and back for whatever reason. I did a very slow mo break in for 500 to 1,000 miles (same as GY's). Longer story short, @ a tad less than 10,000 miles (1 5,000 miles rotation, going on two) seems to measure out @ app 20,000 miles+plus per 1/32nd in consumption. I have had both sets in rain, snow and ice (as well as drought and higher desert conditions) . The LX 20's seem harder to get sideways. They also seem to be a more precise tracking tire (ala, windy 2 lane (one lane each way) MOUNTAIN roads 7,382 ft (summit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_Summit) and includes up & down grade 2 lanes each way passing areas). They are also highly rated in rain, snow and ice, for an A/S tire.
So SAD only 428 # ft of torque 8 speed A/T !
Naught to 60 only 5.6 seconds. Way too much techie for me.
reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2014-audi-a7-3/4505-10865_7-35833102.html
I would swag people who would like this car, (probably more importantly are ok with actually buying it) would not tend to spend any real time in it.