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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Comments
So really, it depends what you mean by "monster torque." So I take it you believe 428# ft is less than 395# ft !! ???? OK ...... In that case, I think you are probably better off with the 05 Pontiac GTO.
There can be no doubt the M/T GTO's zero to sixty (of 4.6) is better over that diesel's 5.6 sec. Going forward, evidently GM did not see fit to continue the brand (Pontiac) let alone the GTO.... 8 years ago?.
If you get a diesel for those times , I think you will be less than happy. However, the 4 speed A/T for the GTO beats the 6 speed M/T (4.5 sec).
!! ??? Zero to sixty STREET drag racing, ala Justin Biever really has ZERO interest for me. A no brainer would be for him to have signed up for the local drag strip !!
I think a Corvette twin turbo TDI would be GREAT for what most Corvette drivers would probably use it for. Slap that new 7 speed M/T Tremec in it !! Now that would be a HIGHWAY cruiser !!! How many folks have seen the iconic cherry (gasser) Corvette cruising up/down the freeway at 55 to 65 mph? zzzzzzzzzzzzz. So what do you think are the chances GM/Chevrolet will do an T TDI 8 cylinder "monster torque" Corvette?? That would be an almost no brainer 450# ft to 650 # ft of torque machine. I am not sure what mpg and speeds it would be optimized for, but I am thinking 35 to 48 mpg would be a hit. With an 18.5 gal tank ranges are between 648 miles to 888 miles. I am guessing that beats a 14 to 19 mpg ????
(84%?), and a 352 miles range?
They are probably getting carbon waivers to burn those outlier advocates at the stake @ the next Corvette meet.
Street racing is not what it was when I was a kid. More cops and higher speeds. Did not work out well for Paul Walker. Live fast and die fast. My neighbor has a 900 HP Subaru powered dune buggy. Very, very fast, but one screw up and you could die. Give me the smooth torque that pulls up those long hills 75 MPH in 8th gear without stressing a bit. No more gas hogs for me.
Indeed on a Friday night the fav race spot was "church" row, as no church was open and it was a very seldom used half to .75 miles. The .25 mile was straight and the .5 miles was a steep UP hill !! Bingo nights were Wed/Thur. Last thing anyone wanted to do was get hurt or hurt someone else. (simpatico land use?)
Most of the fun for all but the more serious go fast crowd was to see how soon the cops would come and do the bust game scenario. The staging area was a city owned dirt parking lot and for some reason they had a traffic signal. PERFECT !!! 
They didn't need the hot gal with a drop flag, standing in the middle of the street.
Indeed 75 mph upgrade @ altitude 2,000 to 7,388 ft+ feet) is still an outlier (geez,... 47 years later) !! ?? 31 mpg is a no brainer also !! Coming down....36.5 to 39.9 mpg for 80 to 100 miles is simply rolling down the grade with hardly any brake use ! L is G, especially for a sub 5,000 # CUV. So according to the 2025 fuel standards of 30 isn for light trucks we are practically in compliance 12/13 years early !
The 6.9 second 0-60 MPH in the Touareg TDI would beat most anything on the street in the 1960s. Give me that smooth low RPM power that yields quiet luxury & comfort for mile after mile on the highway. Monster gas hogs are for kids with more money than brains.
This is probably way off topic, but I really bemoan the loss of use of oil based paints, like Imron ! (specialized aviation, marine, car paints) That stuff was simply dazzling !! But then @ 200 to 500 per gal....
Must be a California thing. I priced a quart of oil based enamel paint the other day at Walmart. The fumes warnings waived me off. The water based enamel didn't sound much better, so I didn't buy it either.
On the road (again) today. Seems like the UP gas/diesel differential is seventy cents at every station.
I believe it. Here it is .58 cents. CA resort .54 cents RUG/ULSD spreads.
For once, I had the patience to read the post . . . and I actually agree. Go figure. Car paint sucks these days. Much of it looks like it was applied with a roller, but at least it chips like crazy. I had my 240-Z painted with Ditzler (remember them?) enamel, and it was beautiful -- tough too.
Those days are, sadly, long gone.
CA is the worst state for control of finishes. Most of the cabinet shops have gone under here because you cannot get the good finishes that are available in most states. A friend that had to shut down all but his installation business said the state would allow him 5 gallons a year of the good wood finish. Just enough for touchup work. That is why I dread getting a car painted here. We had my wife's old Mazda repainted and the new finish started flaking off in less than 2 years.
Sounds more like a prep issue to me.
It was a waste of $700 anyway as we sold it soon after that for $1200. Not sure why we kept it with 3 other vehicles.
lol, a $700 paint job? This was in Tijuana then eh?
Local body shop top of the line baked on paint??? that was about 7 years ago. Time flies.
Sounds like Earl.
There are some "interesting" rattle-can jobs on YouTube.
"Next month, Ram 1500s equipped with diesel engines are scheduled to start rolling into showrooms. They’ll be Chrysler’s first light-duty diesel pickups and the only ones available in the United States.
Dubbed EcoDiesel, the engine is the same 3.0-liter turbocharged V6 that debuted recently in the Jeep Grand Cherokee, and it pumps out 240 hp and 420 lb-ft of torque."
Test Drive: 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel (Fox)
I got a Earl Scheib $29.95 paint job that was better than the $700 one. Probably better paint back then.
Promising review:
Granted, diesel is still much more expensive than regular grade gasoline in most places, but even at 27 mpg an average driver will probably save well over $500 a year at the pump compared to the V8, and have a higher residual value on the back end. Long haulers will do even better, and that’s exactly who this truck fits best.
The folks at Ram estimate about 10-15 percent of customers will go for the EcoDiesel, but the engine has been beating sales projections in the Grand Cherokee and seems even more appropriate tucked behind the 1500’s semi-truck-style grille, so they may be in for a pleasant surprise of their own.
Ford is asking and getting $6.000+ MORE for shedding 700#'s among other things !! ?? The real ironic thing is so they can put in a much smaller V6 (GASSER) engine and lower hp/torque (cheaper ) with the narrative being cheaper operating costs due to lower hp and better fuel economy. I read in passing, another article where Ford waxes proudly that not only is the new truck going to be CHEAPER for them to make, but will not take as LONG (cheaper still). They of course do not say how much cheaper it is to make even as they charge $6,000+ more !! Funny how the DIESEL up charge in is considered an issue !!???
The Dodge RAM 1500 TDI would be on the radar if I was in the (so called) light truck market (I am not). There are literal plethoras of reasons. Here are a few that jump out at me.
5b. TMI, @ current prices $3.45 RUG/$3.99 (YES ULSD costs MORE per gal !!!!! = $69,759 RUG vs $50,701 ULSD. Overwhelming most (95%) opt for the $19,000 + MORE !!!! ??????
As a comparison, I lost count @ 55 DIFFERENT Ford F150 configurations on the Edmunds.com site. I am sure one can still do a factor order ! ?
Filled today with Mobil ULSD. 581 miles on this tank. Average speed 37 MPH mostly short trips to town and about. Calculated average 26.02 MPG, computer showed 25.8 MPG. That is 23% better than EPA city rating. Headed out to the desert in a couple days, see how she does on the back roads and trails.
Fiat-Chrysler is already concerned that VM won't be able to meet demand, and they will be looking at ramping production of the 3.0 - it also sees duty in a number of other vehicles outside of North America.
(this is a total WING/SWAG job, so feel free to correct any aspect)
As I recall, the VM TDI factory puts out app 50,000 units V6 3.0 L TDI's per year. Despite Fiat/Chrysler ownership, they are not a major customer. Germane, that was in the "sleepy" ramp up period of the Jeep GC's V6 3.0 L TDI. I have not heard nor seen Dodge's Jeep GC TDI option rate projection for TDI. option.
So, .... IF
Gagrice's posting of Dodge's expectation of 10 to 15% of Dodge's RAM buyers opting for TDI's is/are true, AND with (GOODcarBadcar.com's) documentation of 355 + k RAM sales in 13 MY, it would SEEM Dodge has a PROJECTED short fall of app 36k to 54k TDI engines (JUST FOR RAM !!! and without enough head room to produce them?) . It would then need to (build/expand facilities to ) pump up production a MINIMUM of 72 to 107%. !!!!!!
Unless it (ramped UP production) is already in work, LOADs of folks (city/states/feds/unions/environmental groups et al (not to leave out any other illegitimate to legitimate WHINERS) have LOADS to say about RAMPED UP production) PANIC is probably closer to the truth !!
In effect, Dodge can conceptually TRUMP both GM/FORD in each's most profitable and largest sales segment. (aka, if I only had the ante to get into the GAME........) Truly, it can be an almost TOTAL game changer.
Off topic but related, if Dodge can find ways to shave 500 to 1000 #'s off the Ram' 1500.... GEEZZZZZZZ !!!
Five killer consequences :
Again a slow diesel news day ! However as a comparison the EU has roughly 271 M vehicles with 11.8 M in 2013 sales vs 257.4 M US and we had 10.5 M sales during the so called 2009 BAD year.
bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-28/european-car-market-may-rise-2-in-2014-trade-group-says.html?cmpid=yhoo
Not a Tesla, but its still a Porsche, albeit 116 year old electric?
theverge.com/2014/1/28/5354112/porsche-first-vehicle-found-after-116-years-electric-p1
It had a 50 miles range back then ! ?
Here's the correction. 355K is total Ram sales, not the Ram 1500. 1500s only account for about 60% of that number (the rest are 2500-5500s). Ten percent would be approximately 21,000 trucks. Plus you have the Grand Cherokee using it as well. Ram will likely cut off orders at 10,000 and gauge demand, giving VM time to increase production.
(And don't call them Dodge any more - Chrysler doesn't like that. The make "Ram" is legally official in the eyes of the Feds, and has a VIN code.)
The information is good to know. IF the RAM 1500 diesel take is a hit @ 15% take %, 32k TDI's still is in the ball park ! I truly hope both the J GC TDI and the R 1500 are HITs for them ! I also noticed that Ram 1500's offers the 8 speed A/. F150 offers the 6 speed A/T.
THE SPREAD
I pumped close to 16 gal of PUG into my BMW @ $4.099/ gal (20.1 mpg), almost 20 gal of RUG into my wife's Pilot @ 3.559 (should have been $3.759, but I had $.20 gal off from Stop N Shop rewards) / gal (13.7 mpg)
ULSD was $4.499
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Per mile driven FUEL costs (pmdf) would be .203 cents, .27.4 cents (unadjusted) respectively. Now I do not know what your mpg would be in a VW T TDI, but my last fill @ 31 mpg and @ your ULSD price, that would mash out to .145 cents pmdf. So ... SUV to SUV, RUG (pmdf) 89% move expensive or ULSD 47% CHEAPER.
My neck of the woods ULSD prices are at $ 3.89/3.99 for .126 cents/.129 cents per mile driven fuel. As an afterthought, the 03 VW J TDI @ 49.84 mpg posts .0803 cents pmdf.
BUT ya got to like how this calculator MASHES !!!!!
Why Electric Cars Are Selling in California: They're Free
BY Anton Wahlman| 01/24/14 - 06:00 AM ESTTweet CommentLink
thestreet.com/story/12262655/1/why-electric-cars-are-selling-in-california-theyre-free.html
So in another vein, I will have to do my public service for my friends and others who have bought Tesla's and can not take advantage of the fuel prices on the Tesla cross country runs (FREE) !! Of course just the tire replacement and alignment costs are in the super car category. NO 15,000 miles per 1/32nd in wear on the tires for this bad girl/boy.
CA adds a new twist to the song "Everything's Free in America"
Just charging at work with a drive that fits your EV's range will save you a bundle. 37 cents a KWH and applications to raise it higher can challenge the EV's claim to low cost running. I figure a Nissan Leaf in San Diego will cost about 8 cents a mile. I see a few around here. One Volt and no Spark EVs. I did see a new RAV4 EV the other day. Would be nice as a runabout. Not practical for a non commuter like myself.
Out here, the beginnings of so called "class" warfare are earnestly in full swing. Silicon Valley "tech" companies are getting "hammered" for actually trying to use less fuel and making productive what used to be ALMOST ZERO commute times. The world has probably never heard of Google.
They (one example) are packing buses (of their employees) taking a lot of cars off the commute grinds. What are they going to do next, burn the old folks and handicap buses?
It is the enviro con's "hate du jour" in full swing !!
Come live in the city !!! (San Francisco as an example) , now that you are here, we hate your kind.
Google? That's an ad company, right?
The new engineering grads don't want to commute, whether it's in an EV, gasser or diesel. They want to be able to walk or at worse, take a subway.Thus the move to San Fran and other urban areas by the "hot" new companies.
Not that I have not had experience with this ! ? Once upon a time, my DOG would signal me when the light rail was coming to "my stop". When I say my stop, a throw from third base to first base (on a women's softball field) was literally too far. The place where I worked had a literal underground access to a 23 story building.
Not sure you are following the gentrification of San Francisco. The yuppie types from Silicon Valley are buying up the dumps and rebuilding them. It is displacing older and poorer residents of San Francisco. Then Google, Apple, Yahoo etc drive their plush buses into the city to pick the workers up and take them to the ivory towers in Silicon Valley.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-google-bus-san-francisco-20140123,0,5252076.story#axzz2rrJQTSnG
Yeah, but the new engineers don't even want that kind of commute, even though they can text the whole way. I think Apple is screwing up building that big donut campus in the "boonies".
There's a joke here about diesel gelling.
Husky Lima Refinery Said to Halt Diesel Output on Pump Failure (Bloomberg)
Bloomberg also reports that diesel futures are up.
You could be right on Apple. Thankfully I filled up and good for at least a month. The best price in San Diego jumped 10 cents the next day. Should be good for at least two trips to the desert. May rain which will bring out the desert flowers. Was up in the mts today and the temps were about 15 degrees above normal. Met folks from North Dakota. Running around in shorts at 60 degrees. Everyone else in a parka.
bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-30/vw-edges-past-gm-in-global-auto-sales-to-take-no-2-spot.html?cmpid=yhoo
Is this a neck/neck horse race or what?
I would say the race is on. I cannot believe that diesel vehicles do not play a big part in VW's sales. And they have become number two without selling many in the 2nd largest market the USA. I see more and more VWs around here with the TDI on back. That in spite of the higher priced diesel. RUG dropped a dime to $3.39 at Costco. Diesel still selling in the $3.79 to $3.89.
I'm out of the loop - I thought the order was GM, VW and then Toyota.
Be curious to compare GM diesel (truck) sales to VW diesel sales in NA.
My guess is GM is third in US diesel truck sales behind Ram and Ford. Just a guess though. Cannot find any hard evidence. Ram has by far the best diesel engine of the three.
It is interesting that even a CAR guy is "going right by" (hidden in plain sight) the VW (world wide) position. So as it applies to a wider "car interest" audience, that sentiment may be indicators. One example might be shifts. I am sure the 2025 standards have something to do with this. The cheat sheet (as posted in one article- I am sure there are many others) indicates that for the fleet wide moniker of 54.5 mpg, "30 ISH" on the lower side (large cars to light trucks) is the literal bottom line and at 55/65 mph. (highway) I also do not see nor swag much of a deviance from 75% of the vehicle fleet being large cars to light trucks.
As it applies to your second point, (GM ) diesel truck sales ("light trucks" ) vs passenger diesels, I presume: at first read, it seemed a tad left field. However in light of the fact that the passenger diesel fleet has gone from 2% to 5% with 75% of that 2% being "light truck" diesels to more like 50% of 5% being passenger CARS, with a few more qualifiers, it would be an interesting discussion. GM of course having a PERCENTAGE of the diesel "light truck" market . It would seem a real waste of good to great American manufacturing talent, expertise and technology; as WE have some of the best diesel oems literally on the planet: one example being Cummins Diesel. To even suggest that they could not come with killer app hits, ala, 2.0 l 4 cylinder TDI's , 3.0 L I to V6 and small block V8's would clearly be anathema. So to reiterate, putting a "smaller" diesel engine in the probably most bought light truck platform (Ram 1500) is/can be a real game changer.
Just to put some borders on it, 2011 registered passenger vehicles were @ 257.512 M. www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
So 5% of that population would be 12.8756 M diesels. 50% would be 6.4378 M "light trucks" with 6.4378 M diesel passenger cars.
Ran errands this morning and heading toward the pharmacy, I followed a Jetta TDI for a few blocks. They turned into the same parking lot so I pulled in alongside and lowered the passenger glass. When the driver got out I asked her how she liked her TDI. She said "they" loved it, got 47 on the highway and it cranked fine in the cold (it's 2 above today).
Then we were interrupted by a tech from the garage in back of the pharmacy, who got in the VW and drove straight to the shop. Probably just getting an oil change but it made me wonder.
So why didn't you ask the tech, or the owner for that matter?
I think since the focus is on those that provide diesels, somehow the default on say the Prius is the are fault less/fault FREE. We have had Prius advocates come on this board and just stop short of saying that. Yet when you ask them what cycles they change things or what things tend to go wrong, they either do not answer or give the implication that NOTHING goes or is wrong. Or play the HATER card (aka like RACISIM) Now if one believes that.... or what they want to imply....
Now I have owned any number of Toyota's and that has NEVER been my experience, even as I wish it were. Now I have had (Toyota) service advisors tell me my 18/20 year old TLC's are running EXTREMELY well. I have even had a Toyota specialty shop tell me flat out they want to buy my two, when I am ready to sell.
On a more personal note, how many folks with Priuses do 30,000 miles OCI's?
Oh the owner hustled into the drug store when the tech arrived. She didn't hang around for more pleasantries and I sure wasn't going to hop out and chase after her. Did I mention that it was 2 above at the time?
Good to know you have some one close by that is familiar with VW TDI vehicles. I can see you in a VW Cross Blue TDI.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/volkswagen-crossblue-concept-prototype-drive-review
Tis all good !! I wonder now out loud how do Prius' do when it is 2 F above? We mustn't leave out plug in's !!
Pretty sure two of the three shops close by work on diesels; my guy may too - never thought to ask him. I'm usually a bit oblivious to car brands, especially sedans, but happened to be close enough to the Jetta to see the TDI. Show me a VW minivan like the '01 concept that only comes in a diesel flavor and then you'd get my interest.
Half the time I don't notice the Prii either but will try to pay attention next week. Supposed to stay cold the next ten days. There is a Volt around but I think it lives downstate during the winter.
In any event, propane is getting quoted at $5.70 a gallon so just be happy you aren't driving one of those around.
Well, it is not just engineering grads !! I really do not know many folks who would not like to maximize their commute times to not commute at all and actually work !! So for example if you have an hour each way 5/6 days a week commute, NOT commuting can save/lose 10 to 12 hours a week. Over a year's time that is app a min of 65 WORK days (8 hour work day)
In my younger days, if I was able to get a seat (public transportation) I would catch up on nap times. With a packed car, I even learned to sleep standing up. it is close to improbable to fall in the "packed like sardines" mode. If you could work while commuting, that actually can make you more productive or you have to stay less time at work.
Could be worse - you could be commuting twice a month in an aluminum tube hurdling across the ski at 600 mph. Jet fuel is very similar to diesel, per Wikipedia. And lots of ground support vehicles burn it at airports instead of diesel. So it's not just the plane exhaust you smell when you walk down the jetway.
I did that every 3 weeks for 25 years. Almost a million actual miles on Alaska Air. I flew Wien, Western and Delta before I switched to AK Air. From about 1984 to 1987 I did the Anchorage, Honolulu, San Diego, Anchorage Triangle on Western. That was a great deal until Delta got into the mix and screwed everything up. I didn't notice the diesel smell. ;-)
gas is 3.25 locally, diesel 4.29 . will that gap/percentage-difference shrink this summer!?!?
Our average is about 40 cents difference around the county. I filled the TDI last week at Mobil for $3.79 RUG at Costco has stayed around $3.45. Should last at least a month. Had 581 miles on the tank that calculated out at 26.02 MPG. Best around town ever with the Toyota Sequoia was in the low 15s. Far cheaper driving the Touareg and a lot more fun.
PS
I filled my PU locally and paid $3.69 for Shell, cheapest gas within 13 miles. I would have to use about 2 gallons to save 20 cents a gallon. So that 13 gallon fill up cost me $2.60 more than driving down to buy cheap gas. And I don't like driving the PU after driving the Touareg. So it is relegated to the 3 mile local trips. I can make the round trip to Costco for about one gallon of diesel.
I know this is old news to the folks in this thread but the BMW 328d gets 45 mpg on the highway. Impressive. Fairly compelling car, even at an msrp of $38,600 to start.
Well YES and NO ! To me, it is another example of BMW FINALLY coming in from its US market fuel guzzlers line up. Most notable is the 2001 M3's 17 to 22 mpg. So indeed if a posting of 45 mpg (328 D) is normal, 23 mpg BETTER (105%) is a good thing !?
On another NON diesel note, SOS/DD trip in an Acura MDX, we (barely) posted 20.3 mpg (PUG) and the owner was HAPPY to do so. For me, it was a real "treat " riding "SHOTGUN" (and on many levels) . The Acura has the 6 speed A/T. He insisted on stopping along the way (upgrade) for fuel (for him a NORMAL fuel stop), even as I explained any number of fuel stations were available and were in "normal" range, albeit just barely as he explained its (MDX's) range and his adjustments TO them. Naturally if we got caught in any weather, it MIGHT be a life/death issue, (slim chance to me), but we stopped and fuel nonetheless. As a back story narrative, I would NEVER stop at that area and place (for fuel). I am sure he was scratching his head a bit that I would "think/act so recklessly" in the VW Touareg????
(backstory narrative} 21 gal tank @ 20.3 mpg= 426 mpg vs 26.4 gal tank @ 31 mpg 818 miles) Again he has been a passenger in the VW Touareg (TDI). So we had an INTERESTING overlaying conversation as to driving differences.