Volkswagen's emissions deceptions have hurt the entire auto industry's credibility with federal regulators. Days after the world's largest automaker confessed to installing software that circumvents emissions standards on approximately a half-million diesel vehicles in the United States, a top federal safety official says the company's dishonesty will force government officials to view the entire auto industry with heightened skepticism.
You can bet your last dollar that if VW has done it, others have done it too with diesel as well as Gas. One who gets caught is the thief
You can bet your last dollar on it if you wish, but I think I'll pass on that wager. You might be right, I really don't know. But I choose to think at this time that this is an outlier. Time will tell, but I'm going to be an optimist for now.
Yeah I think that that the BHO administration would like to do an similar ostrich on this OEM cheating thing, because it doesn't go with the narrative . It also goes against the concept that all they want to send a message. Why would you need to send a message IF it is totally clear in your mind that 98% of the gasser OEM's are pure as the driven snow?
"Diesel test report cites emissions gaps at other automakers
Neal E. Boudette September 22, 2015 - 12:00 pm ET
A European environmental group issued a report earlier this month that suggested other automakers in addition to Volkswagen and Audi may use software or other technology to enable their diesel vehicles to perform better in emissions testing than in actual, on-road driving....
“Other manufacturers are basically on the same line” as Volkswagen, said Francois Cuenot, Transport & Environment’s air quality officer.
Nico Muzi, the organization’s spokesman, went further, saying Volkswagen is “just the tip of the iceberg.”
Muzi added that discrepancies in lab and on-road emissions are “happening across the board.” The differences between the results, he said, “are so much, it can’t be explained.”
"In wake of VW scandal, it's time to scrap self-certify era Richard Truett
.... When I started working at Ford in 2010, my very first assignment was to look into what highway fuel economy consumers and reviewers were reporting for the Chevrolet Equinox crossover.
Ford engineers tested the Equinox and could not duplicate the 32 mpg on the highway that General Motors claimed on the window sticker. Ford’s Escape that year got 28 mpg on the highway. Ford engineers needed the Equinox’s real-world data to ask GM how it managed to achieve 32 mpg.....
....Here are some ideas:
• Once an automaker violates the EPA’s rules, causing a rating to be restated or a vehicle to fail to meet emissions requirements, the company loses the right to self-certify. And going forward, it must pay all costs to certify each vehicle every year. Since the EPA does not have the equipment and manpower to do this, third-party companies such as AVL, FEV, Mahle, Bosch and Continental could do the testing with strict EPA oversight.
• The EPA could hire more engineers and station them permanently at automakers’ testing facilities to supervise testing.
• To reduce discrepancies and variability, tighter rules need to be written that specify and require that each automaker use the same testing machinery, calibrated the same way; that they use the same fuel from one single supplier; and that they test vehicles at the same altitude. All of these factors can cause fuel economy and emissions results to vary.
The engineers I know would never cheat, lie or game the system. Engineers are some of the most creative people you’ll ever meet. Give them a problem and tell them there is little money and no time to solve it, and you will see amazing -- aboveboard -- things happen.
But with escalating fuel economy standards and tightening emissions standards, the system is breaking down farther up the food chain."
Hard to say; there's quite a few folks saying they've sworn off VW. VW hasn't had the best reliability reputation for ages, and now they've lost the green crowd. That pretty much leaves the GTI fanboys.
@socal_eric, you're into state's rights, and it seems that whether you are for or against state's rights depends on what particular side of an issue you are on. People in LA wouldn't be too happy if those "strict" national standards were weaker than current regs and the mountain views started disappearing again.
California really is mired in over-regulation, high taxes, crazy gas prices, and an expensive cost of living. That's why all the businesses have shut down and everyone has left.
Not everyone has left CA. Only five businesses per week. What is left in CA is the largest level of poverty in the nation. The homeless do have better air to breathe. Unless they camp out next to someone with a VW Microbus that spews carcinogenic gas fumes every time they start it.
I thought this comment about the EPA & PM was interesting.
I have an experience working with a company trying to make a new wood stove that meets the new draconian EPA particulate requirements. In order to pass the testing and certify the stove they had to create a specific method to stack the wood, pre burn a nice warm coal bed, etc so that they could get a clean burn for the test. The test is also done with 4x4's and 2x4's, not irregular pieces of wood. They passed by ensuring that there was no chance that a piece of wood could shift to the front of the stove instead of straight down. Any wood shifting to the front would result in over 1000% increase in particulate. Impossible to actually meet the requirements under any real world condition.
I bought a nice sealed wood stove insert for my fireplace a few years ago. The deciding factor was Obama gave me a 30% tax credit for buying a clean burning wood stove. I would bet even the little we use that wood stove in the Winter, that it puts out far more PM and NOx than my VW TDI. With the high price of propane, most of my neighbors burn wood in the winter to take off the chill.
Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) cause ozone, smog, and respiratory problems. Wood and fuel oil combustion have similar levels of NOx emissions.
The real question: with a 2.5% marketshare, what would it be next year? It would appear that VW management both corporate and America, think it important to stay in American markets, to the detriment of minus - $ 25 billion & UP.
Yep, that's why California is just the eighth largest economy in the world with the most people living there of any US state. It's just awful, LOL.
We use to be 6th largest in the World. Some question if the USA is still the largest. CA says send us your weak and homeless we will send you our manufacturing companies along with all the good jobs. Our favorite Swiss bakery closed their doors after 20 years. The cost of electricity put them out of business. He went to truck driving school at 55 years of age, to keep food on the table. Drives long haul cross country. Spewing out diesel fumes.
Thinking about it a little further, there are many different companies that have reverse-engineered the Bosch powertrain controllers VW uses in order to offer aftermarket tuning. Some are more proficient than others, but I wonder if the aftermarket saw any of the codes and tables VW was using in the testing mode?
Which brings up a different regulation that's currently under review. The Copyright Office is looking at the periodic review of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DCMA) to determine if consumers have the ability to reverse-engineer the computer systems used in the vehicles they buy. Automakers and system vendors are pushing heavily against this to keep people out of their software but I think a case could be made that allowing consumers and other companies to reverse engineer and look at programing provides another layer of review that the automakers are playing fairly.
@socal_eric, you're into state's rights, and it seems that whether you are for or against state's rights depends on what particular side of an issue you are on. People in LA wouldn't be too happy if those "strict" national standards were weaker than current regs and the mountain views started disappearing again.
California really is mired in over-regulation, high taxes, crazy gas prices, and an expensive cost of living. That's why all the businesses have shut down and everyone has left.
Not everyone has left CA. Only five businesses per week. What is left in CA is the largest level of poverty in the nation. The homeless do have better air to breathe. Unless they camp out next to someone with a VW Microbus that spews carcinogenic gas fumes every time they start it.
I thought this comment about the EPA & PM was interesting.
I have an experience working with a company trying to make a new wood stove that meets the new draconian EPA particulate requirements. In order to pass the testing and certify the stove they had to create a specific method to stack the wood, pre burn a nice warm coal bed, etc so that they could get a clean burn for the test. The test is also done with 4x4's and 2x4's, not irregular pieces of wood. They passed by ensuring that there was no chance that a piece of wood could shift to the front of the stove instead of straight down. Any wood shifting to the front would result in over 1000% increase in particulate. Impossible to actually meet the requirements under any real world condition.
I bought a nice sealed wood stove insert for my fireplace a few years ago. The deciding factor was Obama gave me a 30% tax credit for buying a clean burning wood stove. I would bet even the little we use that wood stove in the Winter, that it puts out far more PM and NOx than my VW TDI. With the high price of propane, most of my neighbors burn wood in the winter to take off the chill.
Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) cause ozone, smog, and respiratory problems. Wood and fuel oil combustion have similar levels of NOx emissions.
Yep, that's why California is just the eighth largest economy in the world with the most people living there of any US state. It's just awful, LOL.
We use to be 6th largest in the World. Some question if the USA is still the largest. CA says send us your weak and homeless we will send you our manufacturing companies along with all the good jobs. Our favorite Swiss bakery closed their doors after 20 years. The cost of electricity put them out of business. He went to truck driving school at 55 years of age, to keep food on the table. Drives long haul cross country. Spewing out diesel fumes.
Yes! Very ironic also for the rest of your post. From a small business, free enterprise point of view, it has to break your heart to see an ongoing small business have to close it's doors due to high costs in a critical commodity,due to over regulation. I am sure the overregulation in other specific areas, didn't help either.
I wonder if eco-weenie propaganda from this disaster will impact the resale of other diesels. VWs will probably take a hit, but I have to think if it would impact E-class residuals, or the rare late run W221 S-class Bluetec, Hmmm
I believe that VW can simply remove the software that switches to normal mode if they want. It will have certainly effects on performance and MPG if they do. I suspect they will try and tune it before the recall so as to minimize impact. I expect that the cars will not do nearly as good in real world as they did in the EPA testing after the fix. Our Passat TDI could do with a 15% loss in performance - no problem. But a 15% loss of MPG would be 32 MPG instead of the 42 we get at the moment - that would be big.
Keep in mind that the EPA MPG will not change; the car will still have the same ratings, since it passed the EPA tests.
Passed through Centralia Pa. earlier today and thought how appropriate someone mentioned clean coal for electric generation earlier on this thread. In one if the other threads I mentioned how automakers were sometimes allowing other pollutants to increase in order to meet CO2 limits and make fuel economy ratings. This VW issue isn't news beyond confirmation of what a lot of us were already questioning.
Hard to say @fintail - emailed my nephew down in Chattanooga this morning and the disaster is barely on his radar. His outfit only makes a few interior bits for VW.
Yeah, VW will lose the green crowd and that could bleed over to the entire diesel passenger fleet. If MB or other manufacturers aren't meeting emissions regs in real life, as has been claimed in the EU, then the damage could spread.
But my sense: selectively it will boost the prices of used diesels.
Totally unrelated , here is one of two gassers that I wish I had sprung for in 1976, a used one for 2 k, 1964 Porsche 356 . Restored condition @ 150,000.
I believe that VW can simply remove the software that switches to normal mode if they want. It will have certainly effects on performance and MPG if they do. I suspect they will try and tune it before the recall so as to minimize impact. I expect that the cars will not do nearly as good in real world as they did in the EPA testing after the fix. Our Passat TDI could do with a 15% loss in performance - no problem. But a 15% loss of MPG would be 32 MPG instead of the 42 we get at the moment - that would be big.
Keep in mind that the EPA MPG will not change; the car will still have the same ratings, since it passed the EPA tests.
I think VW already tried that, and it failed. It's a much bigger problem.
"U.S. taxpayers duped into shelling out $51 million in green subsidies for 'clean' VW vehicles
By JERRY HIRSCH
The federal government paid out as much as $51 million in green car subsidies for Volkswagen diesel vehicles based on falsified pollution test results, according to a Times analysis of the federal incentives....
"It is really unfortunate," said Luke Tonachel, director of clean vehicles and fuels project at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "The government has been effective to help advance clean technologies, but it is a waste of taxpayer dollars when they aren't actually helping to clean the environment."
He said regulators should factor in the $51 million in subsidies when determining penalties for Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations...."
This points out the problem with politicians that think it's a good idea to choose winners and losers via subsidies (i.e. corporate welfare). If they hadn't of been issuing stupid gov't subsidies, none of these issues would ever arise.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"U.S. taxpayers duped into shelling out $51 million in green subsidies for 'clean' VW vehicles
By JERRY HIRSCH
The federal government paid out as much as $51 million in green car subsidies for Volkswagen diesel vehicles based on falsified pollution test results, according to a Times analysis of the federal incentives....
"It is really unfortunate," said Luke Tonachel, director of clean vehicles and fuels project at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "The government has been effective to help advance clean technologies, but it is a waste of taxpayer dollars when they aren't actually helping to clean the environment."
He said regulators should factor in the $51 million in subsidies when determining penalties for Volkswagen's Clean Air Act violations...."
This points out the problem with politicians that think it's a good idea to choose winners and losers via subsidies (i.e. corporate welfare). If they hadn't of been issuing stupid gov't subsidies, none of these issues would ever arise.
Ah ! No less than fabled moneyman Warren Buffet has said solar electric would make absolutely no sense without the tax credits, tax write off's etc., i.e. tax subsidies. So even with a decade or more of solar subsidies, it is providing .04 % ( way less than 1%) of electrical production. And yes, this is no damn Republican ! t L
Putting aside "the chicken little nature" of the stories, posts, lack of factual information, presumption of innocence till proven guilty and using ( my) the data from the 03 VW Jetta, 12 VW Touareg, 14 Mercedes-Benz GLK 250, I have to wonder how VW thought this would NEVER be discovered. If there is a brain fart of a higher order,, please let me know.
It would also seem that their legal eagles were totally asleep on the job
"It was actually General Motors, not another import automaker, that was best known for defeat devices before VW's crisis unfolded. In 1995, GM agreed to pay at least $45 million to settle Justice Department charges that it put illegal devices to defeat pollution controls inside nearly 500,000 half-million Cadillacs since 1991 that resulted in carbon dioxide emissions of up to three times the legal limit. At the time, it was the largest case ever brought under the Clean Air Act rules for car and truck emissions by the Justice Department on behalf of the Environmental Protection Agency, and was the first judicial auto recall aimed at curbing damage to the environment.
"With the insane competition among automakers and in view of the recent cases where manufacturers have been caught and penalized, few transgressions surprise anymore except acts knowingly committed that injure large numbers of people," says Verma, who also teaches mechanical engineering."
But my sense: selectively it will boost the prices of used diesels.
Totally unrelated , here is one of two gassers that I wish I had sprung for in 1976, a used one for 2 k, 1964 Porsche 356 . Restored condition @ 150,000.
I got a feeling that Joplin Porsche brings way more than $400k. I would think the R&R museum would pay at least a couple million to keep it. I would much rather have that than the Aston Martin used in a 007 movie.
But my sense: selectively it will boost the prices of used diesels.
Totally unrelated , here is one of two gassers that I wish I had sprung for in 1976, a used one for 2 k, 1964 Porsche 356 . Restored condition @ 150,000.
I got a feeling that Joplin Porsche brings way more than $400k. I would think the R&R museum would pay at least a couple million to keep it. I would much rather have that than the Aston Martin used in a 007 movie.
Yeah, The hippie dippie trippie days was in some ways book marked by cars.
I'm not sure why that particular Porsche 356, or Jaguars XKE grabbed me then, as well as now.
Putting aside "the chicken little nature" of the stories, posts, lack of factual information, presumption of innocence till proven guilty and using ( my) the data from the 03 VW Jetta, 12 VW Touareg, 14 Mercedes-Benz GLK 250, I have to wonder how VW thought this would NEVER be discovered. If there is a brain fart of a higher order,, please let me know.
It would also seem that their legal eagles were totally asleep on the job
I wonder if maybe it's an example of "diseconomies of scale" that can hit large companies and organizations? Sometimes in those cases the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Although surely many people worked on this, or at least looked over the code for quality control, with compartmentalization maybe some of the programmers involved didn't fully realize, or didn't want to realize, what exactly they were working on or looking at? Certainly a few execs knew, but maybe just midlevel ones? Is it possible this code was written in c. 2008, and then just left there and forgotten by almost everyone?? Seems hard to believe, but perhaps stranger things have happened.
What makes it more difficult is that once CARB and EPA contacted VW and informed them of the problem, they kept up their stonewalling for almost a year it seems. Slowly as this unfolded, I imagine wider and wider circles of the company were being made aware of what was clearly a serious problem, but VW still wouldn't admit it until they had no other choice.
When they did their software "fix" that didn't work, was that another attempt at deception?
In spite of everything I feel a little bit sorry for the people who work at VW at this point....
Volkswagen's emissions deceptions have hurt the entire auto industry's credibility with federal regulators. Days after the world's largest automaker confessed to installing software that circumvents emissions standards on approximately a half-million diesel vehicles in the United States, a top federal safety official says the company's dishonesty will force government officials to view the entire auto industry with heightened skepticism.
You can bet your last dollar that if VW has done it, others have done it too with diesel as well as Gas. One who gets caught is the thief
You can bet your last dollar on it if you wish, but I think I'll pass on that wager. You might be right, I really don't know. But I choose to think at this time that this is an outlier. Time will tell, but I'm going to be an optimist for now.
GM was caught doing this with Cadillacs back in the 90's, so really VW just played an old GM trick again.
'21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Volkswagen's emissions deceptions have hurt the entire auto industry's credibility with federal regulators. Days after the world's largest automaker confessed to installing software that circumvents emissions standards on approximately a half-million diesel vehicles in the United States, a top federal safety official says the company's dishonesty will force government officials to view the entire auto industry with heightened skepticism.
You can bet your last dollar that if VW has done it, others have done it too with diesel as well as Gas. One who gets caught is the thief
You can bet your last dollar on it if you wish, but I think I'll pass on that wager. You might be right, I really don't know. But I choose to think at this time that this is an outlier. Time will tell, but I'm going to be an optimist for now.
GM was caught doing this with Cadillacs back in the 90's, so really VW just played an old GM trick again.
Yes! We already know how that has played out. Cadillac's back tall in the saddle! It is one of GM's success stories.
"....Carder said he's surprised to see such a hullabaloo now, because his team's findings were made public nearly a year and a half ago.
"We actually presented this data in a public forum and were actually questioned by Volkswagen," said Carder.
The ICCT's research contract to Carder's team was sparked by separate findings by the European Commission's Joint Research Centre, which showed a discrepancy between test results and real world performance in European diesel engines.
The diesel vehicles chosen for the West Virginia study were the VW Passat, the VW Jetta and the BMW X5. Unlike the VW vehicles, Carder said the BMW vehicle "performed very nicely - at, or below, the certification emission levels."
West Virginia University is not new to ground-breaking emissions research, having helped create the first technology to measure vehicle emissions on the road more than 15 years ago.
Hard to say; there's quite a few folks saying they've sworn off VW. VW hasn't had the best reliability reputation for ages, and now they've lost the green crowd. That pretty much leaves the GTI fanboys.
I think we're still a bit close to the revelation to tell yet. Right now some folks don't want to look like they're on a "wrong side". It will be interesting to watch this all shake out.
Although surely many people worked on this, or at least looked over the code for quality control, with compartmentalization maybe some of the programmers involved didn't fully realize, or didn't want to realize, what exactly they were working on or looking at? Certainly a few execs knew, but maybe just midlevel ones? Is it possible this code was written in c. 2008, and then just left there and forgotten by almost everyone?? Seems hard to believe, but perhaps stranger things have happened.
I'd have to do some research to see when the generation of powertrain controller was introduced by VW, but it would interesting to see Bosch's involvement or knowledge. Normally when a new powertrain controller is introduced it's pretty common for the automakers to use consulting teams from the supplier to offer advice on programming and engine management strategies. In the case of GM for example, the actual powertrain calibration on some vehicles was contracted out to Bosch and it's pretty common in the industry to contract out some or all of the calibration work to the vendor or another engineering firm.
VW could have done all the programming in house and just used the Bosch hardware but that would be an added expense and measure of complexity when they could just use Bosch's programming suite (i.e. software/development tools). And if they used Bosch calibration programming tools I don't think this alternate operations mode would be something off-the-shelf to implement.
"....Should Volkswagen’s problems go global—or repairs to the affected vehicles prove too complex, costly, or time-consuming (if not all three)—the company could be looking at an even more soiled reputation and the prospect of buying back noncompliant vehicles or passing out financial settlements to owners. And that’s before the Department of Justice’s investigation into VW’s conduct, EPA fines for each noncompliant vehicle, and the inevitable class-action lawsuits filed by disgruntled owners kick into high gear. And then there are the customers stuck with the diesel cars named by the EPA. For now, these folks are up to their ankles in VW’s problem, and they must wait and see what restitution comes their way."
Volkswagen has admitted that it equipped the control software for its 2.0-liter TDI diesel vehicles with a "defeat device" that detected when the car was undergoing emissions testing and significantly changed the operations of its powertrain to reduce emissions during the tests.
That detection was likely based on a combination of sensor data from the car, which might include steering angle (since cars on dynamometer tests don't make turns), front-wheel versus rear-wheel rotation speed, and a variety of other factors.
The emission test cycles that were developed in the early 1970s are far less aggressive than virtually any real-world driving 40 years later.
It appears that a combination of the factors above plus extremely gentle acceleration and braking might alert the car that it wasn't on the road but being tested in a lab.
Diesel engines are known to generate nitrous oxides (NOx), as do gasoline engines, but in greater quantities due to their higher operating temperatures.
Based on discussions with knowledgeable sources, we surmise that once an emissions test was detected, VW got the affected TDI engines to meet the Tier 2, Bin 5 NOx limits by reducing the fuelflow rate.
This would reduce performance, but most likely not to the point where the car couldn't complete the emission cycles.
Lowering fuel flow would also reduce combustion temperatures and/or the duration of high-temperature operation enough to keep NOx emissions barely within EPA limits.
If the car detected that it was no longer in "testing mode" but had returned to "driving mode," it would restore fuel flow to the regular level--which would send NOx emissions soaring.
The odd thing is that this software feature seems to have persisted into the company's newest generation of 2.0-liter TDI diesels, a heavily revised design known as EA288, which was intended to be fitted with urea aftertreatment systems--which allow other makers to meet the NOx limits under all circumstances."
Sorry, it's still opening for me in Chrome; guess I better not leave the page. Some more quotes:
"As governments launched tax breaks and other incentives encouraging diesel vehicles, such as cheaper parking charges, the industry responded by producing more models. With diesel costing less than petrol in many places, the sector boomed.
Of the 10m diesel cars sold worldwide in 2014, three-quarters of them were bought in Europe.
Most exposed, according to research by analysts at Exane BNP Paribas, are BMW and Daimler, the German carmakers, whose “diesel mix” — those vehicles as a proportion of sales — is 81 per cent and 71 per cent respectively in Europe.
Volvo of Sweden is even higher, at 90 per cent. For Renault and Peugeot, the French carmakers, the figure is more than 50 per cent."
"VW scandal caused nearly 1m tonnes of extra pollution, analysis shows • Emissions could have far greater impact in Europe, where almost half passenger cars are diesel, than the US
“[In the US it would be] nowhere near the effect it would have in this country and in the rest of Europe for that matter,” he said. In the UK, Williams added, emissions from diesel cars cause roughly 5,800 premature deaths each year. “If you were to make the cars emit at the legal limit you could reduce those deaths by at least a factor of two and maybe more. Maybe a factor of five.”
"Volkswagen hires law firm that defended BP after oil spill
September 23, 2015 - 6:39 am ET NEWARK, N.J. (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG has hired the U.S. law firm Kirkland & Ellis LLP to help it deal with the widening scandal over the carmaker’s faked pollution controls, according to a company spokeswoman.
Kirkland led BP Plc’s defense in the criminal investigation of the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil disaster that claimed 11 lives and caused the worst offshore spill in U.S. history, according to the firm’s website. Kirkland spokeswoman Olivia Clarke declined to comment on the Volkswagen hiring.
VW said as many as 11 million cars are affected and that it’s setting aside at least 6.5 billion euros for the matter...."
"West Virginia engineer presented VW emissions findings a year ago David Morgan September 23, 2015 - 6:44 am ET
....WVU is not new to ground-breaking emissions research, having helped create the first technology to measure vehicle emissions on the road more than 15 years ago.
Carder belonged to a 15-member WVU team that pioneered portable emissions testing as part of a 1998 settlement between the U.S. Justice Department and several heavy duty diesel engine makers including Caterpillar Inc. and Cummins Engine Co.
The manufacturers agreed to pay $83.4 million in civil penalties after federal officials found evidence that they were selling heavy duty diesel engines equipped with “defeat devices” that allowed the engines to meet EPA emission standards during testing but disabled the emission control system during normal highway driving.
Been there, done that
When the news about VW broke last Friday, Carder heard from some of the heavy diesel engine manufacturers that were part of the consent decree.
"They saw what had happened and called to say: 'Good job, you guys,'" Carder said. "Some folks said: 'How did they not learn from our mistakes 15 years ago?'"
If there is one thing this should make a little clearer, it's how little people who consider themselves as knowledgeable really know about cars today. For instance how many times has someone tried to push the idea that you should just be able to plug the car into a machine and that tells you what is wrong? These cars were connected to machines countless times, and neither the machines, nor the people working with them caught on to this.
For top techs around the country, the idea of having a five gas analyzer that we can connect to a car and go out on the road isn't a new. I've worn out two of them over the last fifteen to twenty years at about 5K a pop. (Currently I do not have one, nor do I have any intention to buy another one, I do have one for inside the shop, just not out on the road) That tool has helped us diagnose many drivability issues that would have otherwise been much more difficult to solve. If you think that driving around with a cell phone is bad, you should try driving around with a laptop based scan tool, another laptop working as your oscilloscope, and yet a third that was operating the five gas analyzer so that all of the data could be collected simultaneously and then analyzed back at the shop. The best part of this issue is the doubters of what we have had to do now get to see why the dyno didn't always help the techs diagnose some of the cars.
Several responses mentioned CARB. The Smog Check program in California as well as emissions testing (tailpipe) in other parts of the country routinely revealed some interesting conflicts where a given car might be passing its onboard testing (OBDII), but would fail Smog, as well as the reverse where a car lights an OBDII MIL, but still passes the tailpipe test. Some of the causes for such conflicts amounted to the tailpipe test simply being run under engine loads that didn't truly match what the vehicle was designed to normally encounter. Others really took a lot of studying and application of knowledge and skill to figure out which often turned out to be losers generating hours upon hours of unpaid time for the shop and technician. The time spent working at this level has routinely been perceived as the shop/tech not knowing what they are doing, and if we billed it out we would be seen as overpriced and unethical. Meanwhile it was a complete lack of awareness by those who had louder voices who kept feeding the stereotypes and that made even trying to work at this level question why we even bothered. IMO, this story isn't going to end with VW's diesels. Part of the reason that this has come to light is essentially someone else pulled a similar trick, and instead of facing fines and retribution they elected to tattle on themselves and exposed everyone else. These diesels just happen to be one segment of the vehicle fleet that were exempt from emissions testing so that helped them get away with this software trick that we would have otherwise had to suffer with as we would have been forced to trying to diagnose and fix a car that really wasn't broken. BTW the five gas analyzers that I had were not rated for diesel use, that machine would have been different than the one we used for has engines.
Why not just do away with these strict emission standards ? It will make all the cars more costlier as the manufacturers will pass on the costs to the buyers. Smog and atmospheric pollution is caused by industries belching out fumes and also trucks and buses and ships and planes.
?? The only reason we have much cleaner air now is "these strict emission standards". VW isn't a victim of standards, it knew how to meet the regs (install urea systems, like all other car diesel makers), and it chose to cheat the system instead.
Making people sick is a big cost too. Air pollution laws have been around since the 1880s. Phily had smoke inspections starting in 1904. California got active with air pollution control districts in 1947. The feds got serious in 1955. (Wiki)
It's not like clean air is some new burden on industry.
"....Carder said he's surprised to see such a hullabaloo now, because his team's findings were made public nearly a year and a half ago.
"We actually presented this data in a public forum and were actually questioned by Volkswagen," said Carder.
The ICCT's research contract to Carder's team was sparked by separate findings by the European Commission's Joint Research Centre, which showed a discrepancy between test results and real world performance in European diesel engines.
The diesel vehicles chosen for the West Virginia study were the VW Passat, the VW Jetta and the BMW X5. Unlike the VW vehicles, Carder said the BMW vehicle "performed very nicely - at, or below, the certification emission levels."
West Virginia University is not new to ground-breaking emissions research, having helped create the first technology to measure vehicle emissions on the road more than 15 years ago.
I liked Carder's explanation and research on the subject. It also shows a fairly large variation in emissions levels. From 5 to 35 times the Tier 2 Bin 5 limit of .07 G/Mile is a wide variation. Compared to the EURO 5 standard that is .29 G/Mile. Another thing to consider is our Emissions are based on the entire fleet having an average of .07 G/Mile.
The Tier 2 emission standards are structured into 8 permanent and 3 temporary certification levels of different stringency, called “certification bins”, and an average fleet standard for NOx emissions. Vehicle manufacturers have a choice to certify particular vehicles to any of the available bins. When fully implemented in 2009, the average NOx emissions of the entire light-duty vehicle fleet sold by each manufacturer has to meet the average NOx standard of 0.07 g/mi.
It was interesting the much heavier BMW X5 with a 6 cylinder diesel passed with flying colors. I would assume our Touareg TDI would pass as well.
The same emission limits apply to all vehicles regardless of the fuel they use. That is, vehicles fueled by gasoline, diesel, or alternative fuels all must meet the same standards. Since light-duty emission standards are expressed in grams of pollutants per mile, vehicles with large engines (such light trucks or SUVs) have to use more advanced emission control technologies than vehicles with smaller engines in order to meet the standards.
Hard to say; there's quite a few folks saying they've sworn off VW. VW hasn't had the best reliability reputation for ages, and now they've lost the green crowd. That pretty much leaves the GTI fanboys.
I think we're still a bit close to the revelation to tell yet. Right now some folks don't want to look like they're on a "wrong side". It will be interesting to watch this all shake out.
Kind of odd that they tested a 6 cyl. BMW. My understanding is that the VW 6 cyl. diesels were also OK, with only the 4 cyl at fault. Doesn't BMW also make 4 cyls?
VW CEO Martin Winterkorn has stepped down but thanks VW for fessing up! In the last couple days I've been able to more than compensate for whatever it would have devalued the 2009 VW Jetta TDI.
The stock seemed to go up when the announcement was made. I am glad I took to the side lines this day. Given the unfolding of events, I was able to more than compensate for any losses the 2009 VW Jetta TDI might've suffered.
So far it appears that the only really good fix for the 2009 Jetta TDI will be to add the AdBlue system, especially since the software patch will only be a band aid.
"Jordan Kunetka said he regularly filled up his Volkswagen Jetta diesel at a Circle K off I-17 in Anthem for more than two year. After one recent visit, the car's engine seized. The repairs were about $5,000. Kunetka says a VW dealership told him the Volkswagen warranty should cover the cost, but a third-party fuel analysis was needed first.
Kunetka says the test results came back showing there was only diesel fuel in the tank, but the lubrication values were insufficient to Volkswagen's standards, which meant the warranty would not cover the repairs. VW eventually paid a portion, but left Kunetka with a $1,900 bill and questions for the automaker.
"Am I supposed to be carrying test strips with me, everywhere I go?" Kunetka asked. "What are you going to do differently than I did by getting fuel? Because me, as your consumer, using your product, I did everything you told me to do."
"Jordan Kunetka said he regularly filled up his Volkswagen Jetta diesel at a Circle K off I-17 in Anthem for more than two year. After one recent visit, the car's engine seized. The repairs were about $5,000. Kunetka says a VW dealership told him the Volkswagen warranty should cover the cost, but a third-party fuel analysis was needed first.
Kunetka says the test results came back showing there was only diesel fuel in the tank, but the lubrication values were insufficient to Volkswagen's standards, which meant the warranty would not cover the repairs. VW eventually paid a portion, but left Kunetka with a $1,900 bill and questions for the automaker.
"Am I supposed to be carrying test strips with me, everywhere I go?" Kunetka asked. "What are you going to do differently than I did by getting fuel? Because me, as your consumer, using your product, I did everything you told me to do."
Comments
from Automotive News:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150922/OEM06/150929954/diesel-test-report-cites-emissions-gaps-at-other-automakers
"Diesel test report cites emissions gaps at other automakers
Neal E. Boudette
September 22, 2015 - 12:00 pm ET
A European environmental group issued a report earlier this month that suggested other automakers in addition to Volkswagen and Audi may use software or other technology to enable their diesel vehicles to perform better in emissions testing than in actual, on-road driving....
“Other manufacturers are basically on the same line” as Volkswagen, said Francois Cuenot, Transport & Environment’s air quality officer.
Nico Muzi, the organization’s spokesman, went further, saying Volkswagen is “just the tip of the iceberg.”
Muzi added that discrepancies in lab and on-road emissions are “happening across the board.” The differences between the results, he said, “are so much, it can’t be explained.”
"In wake of VW scandal, it's time to scrap self-certify era
Richard Truett
.... When I started working at Ford in 2010, my very first assignment was to look into what highway fuel economy consumers and reviewers were reporting for the Chevrolet Equinox crossover.
Ford engineers tested the Equinox and could not duplicate the 32 mpg on the highway that General Motors claimed on the window sticker. Ford’s Escape that year got 28 mpg on the highway. Ford engineers needed the Equinox’s real-world data to ask GM how it managed to achieve 32 mpg.....
....Here are some ideas:
• Once an automaker violates the EPA’s rules, causing a rating to be restated or a vehicle to fail to meet emissions requirements, the company loses the right to self-certify. And going forward, it must pay all costs to certify each vehicle every year. Since the EPA does not have the equipment and manpower to do this, third-party companies such as AVL, FEV, Mahle, Bosch and Continental could do the testing with strict EPA oversight.
• The EPA could hire more engineers and station them permanently at automakers’ testing facilities to supervise testing.
• To reduce discrepancies and variability, tighter rules need to be written that specify and require that each automaker use the same testing machinery, calibrated the same way; that they use the same fuel from one single supplier; and that they test vehicles at the same altitude. All of these factors can cause fuel economy and emissions results to vary.
The engineers I know would never cheat, lie or game the system. Engineers are some of the most creative people you’ll ever meet. Give them a problem and tell them there is little money and no time to solve it, and you will see amazing -- aboveboard -- things happen.
But with escalating fuel economy standards and tightening emissions standards, the system is breaking down farther up the food chain."
Well everybody, the Popes here ! CNBC eat pundits are saying it's nappy time
Not everyone has left CA. Only five businesses per week. What is left in CA is the largest level of poverty in the nation. The homeless do have better air to breathe. Unless they camp out next to someone with a VW Microbus that spews carcinogenic gas fumes every time they start it.
I thought this comment about the EPA & PM was interesting.
I have an experience working with a company trying to make a new wood stove that meets the new draconian EPA particulate requirements. In order to pass the testing and certify the stove they had to create a specific method to stack the wood, pre burn a nice warm coal bed, etc so that they could get a clean burn for the test. The test is also done with 4x4's and 2x4's, not irregular pieces of wood. They passed by ensuring that there was no chance that a piece of wood could shift to the front of the stove instead of straight down. Any wood shifting to the front would result in over 1000% increase in particulate. Impossible to actually meet the requirements under any real world condition.
I bought a nice sealed wood stove insert for my fireplace a few years ago. The deciding factor was Obama gave me a 30% tax credit for buying a clean burning wood stove. I would bet even the little we use that wood stove in the Winter, that it puts out far more PM and NOx than my VW TDI. With the high price of propane, most of my neighbors burn wood in the winter to take off the chill.
Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) cause ozone, smog, and respiratory problems. Wood and fuel oil combustion have similar levels of NOx emissions.
Which brings up a different regulation that's currently under review. The Copyright Office is looking at the periodic review of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DCMA) to determine if consumers have the ability to reverse-engineer the computer systems used in the vehicles they buy. Automakers and system vendors are pushing heavily against this to keep people out of their software but I think a case could be made that allowing consumers and other companies to reverse engineer and look at programing provides another layer of review that the automakers are playing fairly.
http://www.aqmd.gov/home/programs/community/community-detail?title=wood-device-incentive-program
TDI cars aren't even on the radar in the N0x reduction quest.
Unfortunately, my take: it's part of the plan!
Keep in mind that the EPA MPG will not change; the car will still have the same ratings, since it passed the EPA tests.
Yeah, VW will lose the green crowd and that could bleed over to the entire diesel passenger fleet. If MB or other manufacturers aren't meeting emissions regs in real life, as has been claimed in the EU, then the damage could spread.
But my sense: selectively it will boost the prices of used diesels.
Totally unrelated , here is one of two gassers that I wish I had sprung for in 1976, a used one for 2 k, 1964 Porsche 356 . Restored condition @ 150,000.
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/janis-joplins-psychadelic-porsche-356-goes-under-129645379547.html
L
It would also seem that their legal eagles were totally asleep on the job
"It was actually General Motors, not another import automaker, that was best known for defeat devices before VW's crisis unfolded. In 1995, GM agreed to pay at least $45 million to settle Justice Department charges that it put illegal devices to defeat pollution controls inside nearly 500,000 half-million Cadillacs since 1991 that resulted in carbon dioxide emissions of up to three times the legal limit. At the time, it was the largest case ever brought under the Clean Air Act rules for car and truck emissions by the Justice Department on behalf
of the Environmental Protection Agency, and was the first judicial auto recall aimed at curbing damage to the environment.
"With the insane competition among automakers and in view of the recent cases where manufacturers have been caught and penalized, few transgressions surprise anymore except acts knowingly committed that injure large numbers of people," says Verma, who also teaches mechanical engineering."
Emissions defeat devices well known to be wrong, but pressures remain (USA Today)
I got a feeling that Joplin Porsche brings way more than $400k. I would think the R&R museum would pay at least a couple million to keep it. I would much rather have that than the Aston Martin used in a 007 movie.
Yeah, The hippie dippie trippie days was in some ways book marked by cars.
I'm not sure why that particular Porsche 356, or Jaguars XKE grabbed me then, as well as now.
What makes it more difficult is that once CARB and EPA contacted VW and informed them of the problem, they kept up their stonewalling for almost a year it seems. Slowly as this unfolded, I imagine wider and wider circles of the company were being made aware of what was clearly a serious problem, but VW still wouldn't admit it until they had no other choice.
When they did their software "fix" that didn't work, was that another attempt at deception?
In spite of everything I feel a little bit sorry for the people who work at VW at this point....
MORGANTOWN, WEST VIRGINIA | BY DAVID MORGAN
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/22/usa-volkswagen-researchers-idUSL1N11S20620150922
"....Carder said he's surprised to see such a hullabaloo now, because his team's findings were made public nearly a year and a half ago.
"We actually presented this data in a public forum and were actually questioned by Volkswagen," said Carder.
The ICCT's research contract to Carder's team was sparked by separate findings by the European Commission's Joint Research Centre, which showed a discrepancy between test results and real world performance in European diesel engines.
The diesel vehicles chosen for the West Virginia study were the VW Passat, the VW Jetta and the BMW X5. Unlike the VW vehicles, Carder said the BMW vehicle "performed very nicely - at, or below, the certification emission levels."
West Virginia University is not new to ground-breaking emissions research, having helped create the first technology to measure vehicle emissions on the road more than 15 years ago.
VW could have done all the programming in house and just used the Bosch hardware but that would be an added expense and measure of complexity when they could just use Bosch's programming suite (i.e. software/development tools). And if they used Bosch calibration programming tools I don't think this alternate operations mode would be something off-the-shelf to implement.
"....Should Volkswagen’s problems go global—or repairs to the affected vehicles prove too complex, costly, or time-consuming (if not all three)—the company could be looking at an even more soiled reputation and the prospect of buying back noncompliant vehicles or passing out financial settlements to owners. And that’s before the Department of Justice’s investigation into VW’s conduct, EPA fines for each noncompliant vehicle, and the inevitable class-action lawsuits filed by disgruntled owners kick into high gear. And then there are the customers stuck with the diesel cars named by the EPA. For now, these folks are up to their ankles in VW’s problem, and they must wait and see what restitution comes their way."
http://blog.caranddriver.com/volkswagen-offering-payments-to-u-s-dealers-in-the-wake-of-diesel-emissions-scandal/
"4) What exactly did VW do?
Volkswagen has admitted that it equipped the control software for its 2.0-liter TDI diesel vehicles with a "defeat device" that detected when the car was undergoing emissions testing and significantly changed the operations of its powertrain to reduce emissions during the tests.
That detection was likely based on a combination of sensor data from the car, which might include steering angle (since cars on dynamometer tests don't make turns), front-wheel versus rear-wheel rotation speed, and a variety of other factors.
The emission test cycles that were developed in the early 1970s are far less aggressive than virtually any real-world driving 40 years later.
It appears that a combination of the factors above plus extremely gentle acceleration and braking might alert the car that it wasn't on the road but being tested in a lab.
Diesel engines are known to generate nitrous oxides (NOx), as do gasoline engines, but in greater quantities due to their higher operating temperatures.
Based on discussions with knowledgeable sources, we surmise that once an emissions test was detected, VW got the affected TDI engines to meet the Tier 2, Bin 5 NOx limits by reducing the fuelflow rate.
This would reduce performance, but most likely not to the point where the car couldn't complete the emission cycles.
Lowering fuel flow would also reduce combustion temperatures and/or the duration of high-temperature operation enough to keep NOx emissions barely within EPA limits.
If the car detected that it was no longer in "testing mode" but had returned to "driving mode," it would restore fuel flow to the regular level--which would send NOx emissions soaring.
The odd thing is that this software feature seems to have persisted into the company's newest generation of 2.0-liter TDI diesels, a heavily revised design known as EA288, which was intended to be fitted with urea aftertreatment systems--which allow other makers to meet the NOx limits under all circumstances."
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100125_vw-diesel-emissions-recall-what-you-need-to-know-in-10-questions/page-2
Guess they figure Bosch and VW execs will share a common jail.
VW scandal set to choke diesel car industry (Financial Times)
"As governments launched tax breaks and other incentives encouraging diesel vehicles, such as cheaper parking charges, the industry responded by producing more models. With diesel costing less than petrol in many places, the sector boomed.
Of the 10m diesel cars sold worldwide in 2014, three-quarters of them were bought in Europe.
Most exposed, according to research by analysts at Exane BNP Paribas, are BMW and Daimler, the German carmakers, whose “diesel mix” — those vehicles as a proportion of sales — is 81 per cent and 71 per cent respectively in Europe.
Volvo of Sweden is even higher, at 90 per cent. For Renault and Peugeot, the French carmakers, the figure is more than 50 per cent."
"VW scandal caused nearly 1m tonnes of extra pollution, analysis shows
• Emissions could have far greater impact in Europe, where almost half passenger cars are diesel, than the US
“[In the US it would be] nowhere near the effect it would have in this country and in the rest of Europe for that matter,” he said. In the UK, Williams added, emissions from diesel cars cause roughly 5,800 premature deaths each year. “If you were to make the cars emit at the legal limit you could reduce those deaths by at least a factor of two and maybe more. Maybe a factor of five.”
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/22/vw-scandal-caused-nearly-1m-tonnes-of-extra-pollution-analysis-shows
"Volkswagen hires law firm that defended BP after oil spill
September 23, 2015 - 6:39 am ET
NEWARK, N.J. (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG has hired the U.S. law firm Kirkland & Ellis LLP to help it deal with the widening scandal over the carmaker’s faked pollution controls, according to a company spokeswoman.
Kirkland led BP Plc’s defense in the criminal investigation of the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil disaster that claimed 11 lives and caused the worst offshore spill in U.S. history, according to the firm’s website. Kirkland spokeswoman Olivia Clarke declined to comment on the Volkswagen hiring.
VW said as many as 11 million cars are affected and that it’s setting aside at least 6.5 billion euros for the matter...."
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150923/OEM01/150929934
"West Virginia engineer presented VW emissions findings a year ago
David Morgan
September 23, 2015 - 6:44 am ET
....WVU is not new to ground-breaking emissions research, having helped create the first technology to measure vehicle emissions on the road more than 15 years ago.
Carder belonged to a 15-member WVU team that pioneered portable emissions testing as part of a 1998 settlement between the U.S. Justice Department and several heavy duty diesel engine makers including Caterpillar Inc. and Cummins Engine Co.
The manufacturers agreed to pay $83.4 million in civil penalties after federal officials found evidence that they were selling heavy duty diesel engines equipped with “defeat devices” that allowed the engines to meet EPA emission standards during testing but disabled the emission control system during normal highway driving.
Been there, done that
When the news about VW broke last Friday, Carder heard from some of the heavy diesel engine manufacturers that were part of the consent decree.
"They saw what had happened and called to say: 'Good job, you guys,'" Carder said. "Some folks said: 'How did they not learn from our mistakes 15 years ago?'"
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150923/OEM11/150929933
For top techs around the country, the idea of having a five gas analyzer that we can connect to a car and go out on the road isn't a new. I've worn out two of them over the last fifteen to twenty years at about 5K a pop. (Currently I do not have one, nor do I have any intention to buy another one, I do have one for inside the shop, just not out on the road) That tool has helped us diagnose many drivability issues that would have otherwise been much more difficult to solve. If you think that driving around with a cell phone is bad, you should try driving around with a laptop based scan tool, another laptop working as your oscilloscope, and yet a third that was operating the five gas analyzer so that all of the data could be collected simultaneously and then analyzed back at the shop. The best part of this issue is the doubters of what we have had to do now get to see why the dyno didn't always help the techs diagnose some of the cars.
Several responses mentioned CARB. The Smog Check program in California as well as emissions testing (tailpipe) in other parts of the country routinely revealed some interesting conflicts where a given car might be passing its onboard testing (OBDII), but would fail Smog, as well as the reverse where a car lights an OBDII MIL, but still passes the tailpipe test. Some of the causes for such conflicts amounted to the tailpipe test simply being run under engine loads that didn't truly match what the vehicle was designed to normally encounter. Others really took a lot of studying and application of knowledge and skill to figure out which often turned out to be losers generating hours upon hours of unpaid time for the shop and technician. The time spent working at this level has routinely been perceived as the shop/tech not knowing what they are doing, and if we billed it out we would be seen as overpriced and unethical. Meanwhile it was a complete lack of awareness by those who had louder voices who kept feeding the stereotypes and that made even trying to work at this level question why we even bothered. IMO, this story isn't going to end with VW's diesels. Part of the reason that this has come to light is essentially someone else pulled a similar trick, and instead of facing fines and retribution they elected to tattle on themselves and exposed everyone else. These diesels just happen to be one segment of the vehicle fleet that were exempt from emissions testing so that helped them get away with this software trick that we would have otherwise had to suffer with as we would have been forced to trying to diagnose and fix a car that really wasn't broken. BTW the five gas analyzers that I had were not rated for diesel use, that machine would have been different than the one we used for has engines.
It's not like clean air is some new burden on industry.
reuters.com/article/2015/09/23/us-usa-volkswagen-idUSKCN0RL0II20150923
In other tidbits from the Independent UK's live blog:
"[T]he Qatar sovereign-wealth fund may have lost $4.6 billion in just two days.
On Wednesday the price of Platinum fell to a six-year low of $925.3 a troy ounce.
Platinum is used to make diesel catalysts fitted in some of the vehicles embroiled in the scandal.
The European Parliament Environment Committee has just voted through stricter laws on pollutants from road vehicles."
I liked Carder's explanation and research on the subject. It also shows a fairly large variation in emissions levels. From 5 to 35 times the Tier 2 Bin 5 limit of .07 G/Mile is a wide variation. Compared to the EURO 5 standard that is .29 G/Mile. Another thing to consider is our Emissions are based on the entire fleet having an average of .07 G/Mile.
The Tier 2 emission standards are structured into 8 permanent and 3 temporary certification levels of different stringency, called “certification bins”, and an average fleet standard for NOx emissions. Vehicle manufacturers have a choice to certify particular vehicles to any of the available bins. When fully implemented in 2009, the average NOx emissions of the entire light-duty vehicle fleet sold by each manufacturer has to meet the average NOx standard of 0.07 g/mi.
It was interesting the much heavier BMW X5 with a 6 cylinder diesel passed with flying colors. I would assume our Touareg TDI would pass as well.
The same emission limits apply to all vehicles regardless of the fuel they use. That is, vehicles fueled by gasoline, diesel, or alternative fuels all must meet the same standards. Since light-duty emission standards are expressed in grams of pollutants per mile, vehicles with large engines (such light trucks or SUVs) have to use more advanced emission control technologies than vehicles with smaller engines in order to meet the standards.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
So far it appears that the only really good fix for the 2009 Jetta TDI will be to add the AdBlue system, especially since the software patch will only be a band aid.
Pre fix, my other three are not on suspect lists.
"Jordan Kunetka said he regularly filled up his Volkswagen Jetta diesel at a Circle K off I-17 in Anthem for more than two year. After one recent visit, the car's engine seized. The repairs were about $5,000. Kunetka says a VW dealership told him the Volkswagen warranty should cover the cost, but a third-party fuel analysis was needed first.
Kunetka says the test results came back showing there was only diesel fuel in the tank, but the lubrication values were insufficient to Volkswagen's standards, which meant the warranty would not cover the repairs. VW eventually paid a portion, but left Kunetka with a $1,900 bill and questions for the automaker.
"Am I supposed to be carrying test strips with me, everywhere I go?" Kunetka asked. "What are you going to do differently than I did by getting fuel? Because me, as your consumer, using your product, I did everything you told me to do."
Volkswagen diesel owners beware of 'dirty' fuel (kpho.com)
Kudos to VW for paying the full bill after the TV station contacted them.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460