"VW Supervisory Board: Heads Will Continue to Roll By Mark Stevenson on September 23, 2015
As part of now-former CEO Martin Winterkorn’s resignation, the Executive Committee of Volkswagen AG’s Supervisory Board has also issued a statement.
Cliff’s Notes: If you helped engineer the “defeat device,” you might want to polish your LinkedIn profile.
The statement was delivered in point form as follows:
1. The Executive Committee takes this matter extremely seriously. The Executive Committee recognizes not only the economic damage caused, but also the loss of trust among many customers worldwide....
5. The Executive Committee is expecting further personnel consequences in the next days. The internal Group investigations are continuing at a high tempo. All participants in these proceedings that has resulted in unmeasurable harm for Volkswagen, will be subject to the full consequences.
6. The Executive Committee have decided that the company will voluntarily submit a complaint to the State Prosecutors’ office in Brunswick. In the view of the Executive Committee criminal proceedings may be relevant due to the irregularities. The investigations of the State Prosecutor will be supported in all form from the side of Volkswagen...."
Because they get $Billions of tax dollars to protect the environment. They should be smarter than the automakers. As much as CARB hates diesels I cannot imagine they never thought to actually take one on the road and test it. Or maybe they are a bunch of fat lazy bureaucrats.
My personal opinions of the agency isn't very high with how and by whom runs it and how they create regulations, but they do have programs in place to audit emissions. That's why they conduct things like road side inspections to get feedback on numerous different vehicles to see if they're showing OBD-II trouble codes and a quick verification of tail pipe emissions. The problem is that could still be spoofed if the computer was able to tell if a two-wheel dyno test was being performed.
I'm not sure of how much if any road testing they do where gas analyzer is strapped to the car and driven under varying conditions but it would probably be a good idea. Even though the black eye should be on VW it does bring up a good point that government regulators need to be more agile and adapt to potential ways the testing system can be manipulated.
Good tease! Not even close! Keep throwing soft balls!
The reason why steamships shifted to diesel/ bunker fuel is that bunker fuel diesel is only 25,000 ppm sulfur. Wood/ Coal are way bigger than that ! Shipping by US LAW has ZERO emissions controls!
ULSD @ 15 ppm is nominally delivered @ the pump @ 5 to10 ppm. RUG/PUG @30 ppm can be delivered between 30 ppm to 90 ppm. So RUG/PUG is 2 times to 18 times dirtier.
So if you use biodiesel@ ZERO, just to have mercy, say 1 ppm, RUG/PUG now jumps to 30 times to 90 times dirtier!!!
“Transport is still very much petrol and diesel. So hopefully that’s something that will change.”
That's Elon talking, not me. He also notes that we shouldn't lose sight of CO2 emissions as we castigate VW to the by here, pay here lots. (valuewalk.com)
Assuming for the moment that BMW's diesels are honest (and that will need to be confirmed at some point) the stats on the BMW 328d still seem compelling. This is a smaller car than the Passat, but has the same size of diesel engine at 2 liters. The 328d is rated at 37 combined city highway mpg, compared to 34 for the Passat.
It seems like what this tells us (again assuming BMW doesn't have "defeat" software) is that a powerful and fuel efficient diesel is possible that meets strict CARB emission standards.
Of course, the 328d has a starting list price of about $40,000, while the no-longer-for-sale diesel Passat started at about $28k iirc.
Not surprisingly, all diesels now have been completely scrubbed off of VW of America's site:
“Transport is still very much petrol and diesel. So hopefully that’s something that will change.”
That's Elon talking, not me. He also notes that we shouldn't lose sight of CO2 emissions as we castigate VW to the by here, pay here lots. (valuewalk.com)
Elon needs an EV with an honest 600 mile range to be practical. That makes for a decent days drive without worrying about charging. Then we need to build coal generators all over the USA to blanket the atmosphere with SOx. Sulfur dioxide is proven to cool the climate. All the Chinese coal plants may be why we have not had significant warming the last 15 years. So build more coal plants to power them Teslas that we all can afford.
"Problems at Volkswagen Start in the Boardroom SEPT. 24, 2015 By JAMES B. STEWART
....I spoke this week to a longtime former senior Volkswagen executive, who agreed that a scandal, especially one involving emissions, was all but inevitable at Volkswagen. He cited the company’s isolation, its clannish board and a deep-rooted hostility to environmental regulations among its engineers....
The Volkswagen board has been especially slow to move on environmental issues, investing less in electric and hybrid engine technology than industry leaders.
“There’s an attitude among the German public that it’s very unfair for the U.S. to target the auto industry over emissions,” Professor Roth said. “If you have electric cars and a coal-fired plant producing the electricity, you gain nothing.”
The former Volkswagen executive said Volkswagen’s engineer-driven culture takes the notion even further. He said the engineers feel that the politicians are guilty of rank hypocrisy, especially in the United States, also grumbling that electric cars make no sense as long as power plants are burning fossil fuels....."
Not surprisingly, all diesels now have been completely scrubbed off of VW of America's site:
www.vw.com
Not all the diesels are scrubbed. There are 2016 Touareg TDIs on the lots for sale here. Worst part is the only one to match my 2013 Touareg TDI LUX is $11,000 more than I paid for mine. And they dropped the brown leather for 2016. No 2015s left in local stock. VW does not have anything else that interests me.
I have two more years on my B to B warranty before I need to be looking. All this should be old news by then.
To cut to the chase, the American math doesn't add up, it does not pencil out.
US electrical output from solar and wind nation wide @ .04%. Less than one half of 1%.
59% is from coal and nuclear.
So in effect, and de facto, Germany feels like they're being vilified, prosecuted by America for being green. Less PC, for being greener than them. (aka, us) The numbers support the attitudes.
Keep in mind it was the USA that pitched the foreign oil shortage in the 1970's. So when we tell them that there's a shortage and they should produce cars that consume less fuel and they actually provide them to us, we get all bent out of shape.
When you pull out the AQMD stats with the top N0x generators, not being diesel passenger cars, we don't even still get why they are furious. I don't think we even get that the German auto industry is key to Germany's well-being.
It's a good lie. it's sort of like, do as I say, not as I do . EV can NOT exist in the U S without clean coal and clean nuclear. They both are the very things Eco [non-permissible content removed]'s rail against.
Does anyone really doubt this? No problem, just turn off the 59% of the electrical power gotten from clean nuclear & coal and see what will happen. Stop folks in Alaska and anywhere else who burn wood from using it to heat their homes.
Over on the cars and conversations board, I just read a post that said the same group that tested the Passat just completed their test on a BMW X3 and it tested 11 times worse than the European standard. Worse than the Passat.
Time to start testing all models gas, diesel and hybrids on long road trips to get the REAL story on emissions. I would like to see all gas vehicles forced to cut CO by at least half. It is the silent killer.
Side note on German electricity. They are expanding their coal generation with lignite coal the dirtiest of all to replace Nukes. So much for their Green image.
But brown coal is making an unexpected return. The development has environmentalists worried. Germany is often seen as a model, thanks to its strong push for renewable energy. Politicians here have committed to 80 percent renewable power by 2050, and strong public support and generous subsidies have seen solar and wind power grow dramatically in the past decade. Roughly a quarter of Germany's electricity today comes from renewable sources; in the United States, just 12 percent does. (See related interactive map: "Four Ways to Look at Global Carbon Footprints.")
With this commitment to the "Energiewende," or energy revolution, it's a mystery to many why villages like Atterwasch are still at risk. "The new mine is planned for 2030 to 2070—a time when coal power plants shouldn't even exist anymore," said Huschga.
"Road tests of more than a dozen popular models from several manufacturers showed that the raw nitrogen oxide emissions from the cars were on average seven times European standards, according to a little-noticed October report from the same outfit that flagged the VW problems.
Most of the models in the October report have not been publicly identified. One of the cars tested is the BMW X3, which had emissions calculated at 11 times the European limit, according to the testing company."
There's supposedly an Auto Bild retraction on the X3 story, but all I see is a clarifaction that Auto Bild wasn't accusing BMW of using a defeat device, but are still reporting that the X3 doesn't meet the NOx standards in the real world.
"Volkswagen #Dieselgate Where's the smoking gun? By Angus MacKenzie | September 25, 2015
....A good place to start asking who knew what, and when did they know it, might be among the engineers credited with authoring a two-part article titled "Volkswagen's New 2.0 L TDI Engine for the Most Stringent Emission Standards," published in the authoritative German engineering journal MTZ in May and June, 2008. They were (and their job titles as listed at the time of publication):
Jens Hadler, Executive Director, Powertrain Development Falko Rudolph, Head of Diesel Engineering Richard Dorenkamp, Head of Department, Lowest Emission Engines and Exhaust Aftertreatments H. Stehr, Group Leader Diesel Engine Combustion J. Hilzendeger, Group Leader Diesel Engine Durability and Design Sebastian Kranzusch, Group Leader Power Electronics and Ignition, Drivetrain Electronics Martina Klsters, Development Engineer Exhaust Aftertreatments, Diesel Engine Development Dieter Mannigel, Software Design, US Diesel Engines, Drivetrain Electronics Burkhard Veldten, Group Leader Software Design, Diesel Engine Electronics/Powertrain, Drivetrain Electronics
The article discusses in great technical detail how VW's EA189 2.0-liter four cylinder turbodiesel was "redeveloped to comply with the strictest exhaust fume limits in the world, namely the Tier 2, Bin 5 emission legislation in the USA" for launch in the U.S. market Jetta in mid-2008. A technical highlight of the program was "the implementation of an NOx exhaust gas aftertreatment system".
New engine components, such as an optimized injection system, a low-pressure exhaust gas recirculation system and a new method of cylinder pressure control, the authors claimed, required "the development of new control algorithms and intensive coordination of parameters for this entirely new combustion process".
But it's the summary that, in the context of the scandal now enveloping VW Group, makes perhaps the most interesting reading. The authors claimed VW was able to reduce particulate and NOx emissions from the EA189 engine by more than 90 percent. Moreover: "Adherence to the emission values under customer conditions has been proven in the USA with a large fleet of vehicles and taking the climatic and geographic conditions into account...."
"How VW's Plan to Win America Backfired by Matthew Campbell, Alex Webb, David Welch September 25, 2015
....Diesels often have a tank of a urea-based solution that’s mixed with exhaust and binds with nitrogen oxides -- a big component of smog -- to reduce emissions. Volkswagen said its smaller cars could meet emissions goals without the extra tank, meaning less weight, better performance, and lower prices....
Too Good to Be True
Volkswagen’s diesels promised the fuel economy of hybrids but with better acceleration, said Maryann Keller, an independent auto consultant. That turned out to be too good to be true. Diesel buyers "saw this as an environmentally acceptable option without sacrificing performance," Keller said, but after the scandal many customers will likely gravitate toward hybrids. "In the U.S., this could kill diesel."
....Even if Winterkorn was unaware of the cheating, experts say it’s unlikely it could have been the work of only a few individuals. Emissions and mileage standards are a central component of car and engine design, affecting weight, performance, and price.
"The system is so intricate that it is totally impossible that there was not, up and down the line, knowledge of what they were doing," said John Alan James, a former consultant for automakers such as General Motors and Volvo...."
My interest in diesel cars is renewed, but only in pre-2007 models, and just barely. Any diesel car driver is now perceived (mostly correctly) as a gross polluter, way worse than an Escalade or Suburban driver.
The Touareg is a great diesel vehicle but it is saddled with the prone-to-failure emissions systems required by the onerous CARB/etc requirements.
All the post-2007 emissions crapola cost the consumer BIG up front. and it continues to cost the consumer BIG down the line with lowered MPG and recall more-lowered-MPG and all the VW cheating.
The diesel emissions requirements were an accident/invitation-to-cheat because they were onerous, and glaringly/intentionally beyond the capability of humans to engineer reliable/low-cost/long-term diesel emissions systems.
Soon we will watch *all* the automakers diesel emissions systems fail over long-haul, not via software-switch design, but just due to age. the systems will *all* exceed limits, costing consumers many thousand$ each as they fail around 100k miles.
Tailpipe tests are not necessary, OBD will detect/report the diesel emissions systems failures unless the diesel vehicle OBD software also has cheating cheats.
someone better be checking/disassembling all the OBD software too - gotta subpoena all VW's proprietary source code now that they are known to be lying liars, cheating cheaters.
the VW cheating does seem to be the end of diesel passenger vehicles in USA! who knew they would seal the coffin worse than GM during the 1980s. wow.
consumers will vote with their wallets.
let's have a pool on diesel car percentage of new vehicles sold in USA 2016, if they are allowed to be sold at all! i'll go with -0.4%, since VW will probably be eating/buying-back VW diesels well into 2016.
On other planets, it can be found in various concentrations, the most significant being the atmosphere of Venus, where it is the third-most significant atmospheric gas at 150 ppm. There, it condenses to form clouds, and is a key component of chemical reactions in the planet's atmosphere and contributes to global warming.[9] It has been implicated as a key agent in the warming of early Mars, with estimates of concentrations in the lower atmosphere as high as 100 ppm,[10] though it only exists in trace amounts. On both Venus and Mars, its primary source, like on Earth, is believed to be volcanic. It is also believed to exist in trace amounts in the atmosphere of Jupiter.
Further down the linked page
Inhaling sulfur dioxide is associated with increased respiratory symptoms and disease, difficulty in breathing, and premature death.[40] In 2008, the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists reduced the short-term exposure limit to 0.25 parts per million (ppm). The OSHA PEL is currently set at 5 ppm (13 mg/m3) time-weighted average. NIOSH has set the IDLH at 100 ppm.[41] In 2010, the EPA "revised the primary SO2 NAAQS by establishing a new one-hour standard at a level of 75 parts per billion (ppb). EPA revoked the two existing primary standards because they would not provide additional public health protection given a one-hour standard at 75 ppb."[42
Soon we will watch *all* the automakers diesel emissions systems fail over long-haul, not via software-switch design, but just due to age. the systems will *all* exceed limits, costing consumers many thousand$ each as they fail around 100k miles.
$6,000? OUCH! Now let's guess what it would cost VW if they have to retrofit a DEF system to all those cars...one forum commenter said $100 each. After I stopped laughing I said $1,000, looks like I might be low.
In other news, it sounds like the EPA is going to start spot checking vehicles on the road. No indication of how they plan to pay for the increased testing; funds will probably come from the existing program they have for testing diesel truck emissions.
More ways to cheat, at least in the EU, are being talked about (via Carscoops).
"Automakers are said to charge the car’s battery before a test, deduct 4 percent from each test result and use incorrect laboratory settings for the inertia of the vehicle. While the companies admit these tricks, they claim they are “legitimate flexibilities”. As a result, the gap between official fuel economy figures and those achieved by an average driver have grown to 40 percent.
[F]or virtually every new model that comes onto the market, the gap between test and real-world performance leaps."
The article doesn't differentiate between diesel and gas cheating so you can assume it the same for gassers..
The number comes from Transport & Environment in Belgium. "Established in 1990, T&E represents around 50 organisations across Europe, mostly environmental groups and campaigners working for sustainable transport policies at national, regional and local level."
If you came to the conclusion NO, you'd be correct.
Again the AQMD slides are very instructive. As one can see, they have identified 11 N0X emitters,, Gasser cars,pick up trucks, SUVs light trucks ARE the # two N0x emitter.
It's commonly known that the heavy duty big rigs are almost 100% diesel. They have none of the emissions controls that diesel cars are required to have. So while the fines are pretty massive, the snapshot shows like it's the same old stuff different day. Diesel cars, even with the alleged lack of N0x compliance aren't even on the radar.
So let's say you can wave your magic wand and make those 100% diesels big rigs, gassers. The gassers will in effect then overtake as THE number one emitters of N0X! So not only have you not solve the problem of the N0x emissions , you've made gassers N0x emissions an even bigger category, an even bigger problem. You have also decreased the fuel mileage from approximately 6 mpg to more like 3 or 4 mpg. So do you think burning even more fuel does to the N0x issue ??
The number comes from Transport & Environment in Belgium. "Established in 1990, T&E represents around 50 organisations across Europe, mostly environmental groups and campaigners working for sustainable transport policies at national, regional and local level."
"VW managed fake U.S. test results from Germany, report says
September 25, 2015 16:43 CET BERLIN (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen executives in Germany controlled the key aspects of emissions tests whose results the carmaker now admits were faked, three people familiar with the company’s U.S. operations told Bloomberg.
The criteria, outcomes and engineering of cars that missed emissions targets were overseen by managers at Volkswagen’s base in Wolfsburg, according to the people who asked not to be identified because they weren’t authorized to speak publicly.
Their accounts show the chain of command and those involved in the deception stretched to Volkswagen headquarters. While the company has asked German prosecutors to open an investigation, the executive committee of the supervisory board has backed former CEO Martin Winterkorn’s statement that he knew nothing about the malfeasance.
Emissions testers at a site in Westlake Village, Calif., evaluated all the cars involved according to criteria sent from Germany and translated into English, and all results were sent back to Germany before being passed to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, one of the people said.
VW executives
If any vehicle failed to meet emissions targets, a team of engineers from Volkswagen headquarters or luxury brand Audi’s base in Ingolstadt was flown in, the person said. After the group had tinkered with the vehicle for about a week, the car would then pass the test. VW had no engineers in the U.S. able to create the mechanism that cheated on the test or who could fix emissions problems, according to two other people...."
In the 1990s, EPA testing showed that the manufacturers of heavy-duty diesel engines were using computer programs to show compliance with emission limits on the EPA test but to change the fueling of the engines in actual use to reduce fuel consumption, but in way that increased emissions of oxides of nitrogen or “NOx.”
If you came to the conclusion NO, you'd be correct.
Again the AQMD slides are very instructive. As one can see, they have identified 11 N0X emitters,, Gasser cars,pick up trucks, SUVs light trucks ARE the # two N0x emitter.
It's commonly known that the heavy duty big rigs are almost 100% diesel. They have none of the emissions controls that diesel cars are required to have. So while the fines are pretty massive, the snapshot shows like it's the same old stuff different day. Diesel cars, even with the alleged lack of N0x compliance aren't even on the radar.
So let's say you can wave your magic wand and make those 100% diesels big rigs, gassers. The gassers will in effect then overtake as THE number one emitters of N0X! So not only have you not solve the problem of the N0x emissions , you've made gassers N0x emissions an even bigger category, an even bigger problem. You have also decreased the fuel mileage from approximately 6 mpg to more like 3 or 4 mpg. So do you think burning even more fuel does to the N0x issue ??
So if the diesel haters have their way, basically they're going to make N0x emissions from GASSERs, an even BIGGER problem! Again, keep in mind that this is in an area that has the nation's worst air pollution problems. This is really hard to over emphasize !!! Now you might chose to ignore it like most of the chicken little crowd seems to be doing. In that sense, most to all other places in the US, are TOTALLY downhill.
So in the case where they in effect do nothing ( to the offending VW diesels), it will make NO, ZERO, NADA measurable differences in N0x emissions, just like it is NOW!!!!!!!
When you look at the reality of the problem, we are talking 2/10ths of 1% of the California vehicles on the road are the horrible polluting VWs. How about the much lower CO2 they emit, which according the the President is the largest problem we face in the US and World. Give a little, take a little.
When you look at the reality of the problem, we are talking 2/10ths of 1% of the California vehicles on the road are the horrible polluting VWs. How about the much lower CO2 they emit, which according the the President is the largest problem we face in the US and World. Give a little, take a little.
You are absolutely correct. I'm glad you brought that up.
I did not bring it up because everybody seems to be hysterical on just the one issue: N0x. One more issue seems to be information OVER LOAD to the chicken little crowd.
AQMD also addresses C02. Using one example that I came across on the AQMD site the amount of CO2 is roughly 500% more than N0x!!!
Using the MB GLK 350/250BT- 22 mpg 35 MPG, de facto the Eco types argument is to use 59% more fuel, as opposed to using 37% LESS fuel ( like model)? !
So we wonder why the Germans cite our hypocrisy! ?
"The greenhouse gas not only contributes to global warming but also is a key component in urban ozone pollution, a proven public health risk." (ibtimes)
"The greenhouse gas not only contributes to global warming but also is a key component in urban ozone pollution, a proven public health risk." (ibtimes)
Absolutely true!
It appears that the Chicken Little Crowd wants more WAY more poisons! While it would be tempting to say that they don't even believe their own BS, a lot of things are crystal clear! albeit defacto. They be shrilling for higher fuel prices, COAL and NUCLEAR, which is 59.5% of electrical grid production ! Solar and wind production are less than 1%, specifically .04%. The ratio is 1488% to one, in favor of coal & nuclear.
So do you want me to stop confusing the people with the facts?
Some of this hysteria makes those old right-wingers like Joe McCarthy, looking for commies, look like absolute choir boys/girls,
Some of this hysteria makes those old right-wingers like Joe McCarthy, looking for commies, look like absolute choir boys/girls,
You seriously believe that VW has been wrongly persecuted !! Why don't you tell us your conflict of interest ? It seems you are either a VW lobbyist /dealer/ shareholder/ employee/ or just a plain fanatic German
P.S : No offense to anyone but the same phrases like "chicken little" is now grating on the nerves
Steady, we're talking about diesels here, not each other. All points of view are welcome.
More fallout in California (or maybe less, lol).
"California regulators on Friday voted to reinstate a rule to require a 10% cut in the carbon content of transportation fuels sold in the state by 2020, despite oil industry objections that it would raise gasoline prices.
After it was established by Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, the fuel standard faced several court challenges, including suits by oil companies and a consortium of ethanol producers that argued California couldn’t regulate the production of ethanol outside its borders and the standard favored oil produced in the state. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth District upheld the standard.
Environmentalists viewed the reinstatement of California’s fuel standard as a boost to efforts by Gov. Jerry Brown and other Democrats in the state who have sought to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases from the transportation sector."
Some of this hysteria makes those old right-wingers like Joe McCarthy, looking for commies, look like absolute choir boys/girls,
You seriously believe that VW has been wrongly persecuted !! Why don't you tell us your conflict of interest ? It seems you are either a VW lobbyist /dealer/ shareholder/ ex-employee/ or just a plain fanatic German
Those may be your conclusions, they are certainly NOT mine! Indeed I made lot of money from all this alleged wrongdoing hysterical! I made a number of posts saying that. So in truth, it turns out to benefit me for you guys to keep up this hysteria!
To say that the alledged diesel debacle is a self-inflicted gunshot wound is only stating the obvious.
I don't understand all the AQMD comments - they have a category "Cars/SUVs" - I would think that includes both gas and diesel "Cars/SUVs". It didn't specify gassers.
I don't understand all the AQMD comments - they have a category "Cars/SUVs" - I would think that includes both gas and diesel "Cars/SUVs". It didn't specify gassers.
You seriously believe that VW has been wrongly persecuted !!
Who said that? Talk about grating on the nerves.... LOL
The referred "hysteria" is the whole diesels are evil polluters nonsense that is, really, the prime focus all of a sudden. It isn't about VW cheated on emissions testing, it's about
DIESELS ARE EVIL
, oh, and VW cheating on emissions is proof of that.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
??? the only common thread here is VW cheating. Diesels would be OK (not great, not any cleaner than gassers) if they met the emissions specs. VW couldn't make it happen, and instead of adding the equipment (urea injection) and suffering lower sales, they cheated. Yes, diesels that cheat on the specs are evil, I guess. I have no problem with MB/BMW/whatever makes that did their homework.
From the point of view of a programmer, this would be ridiculously easy
I wondered about the "sophisticated software algorithm" language in the EPA press release since it looks like all it would take would be a simple macro that even I could write. Didn't sound like a complicated feat, but when you put it in terms of machine language, that could hide the code pretty effectively.
It's ironic that the attack on Clean Diesel came from West Virginia University, home of the West Virginia Coal Hall of Fame.
Comments
"After exhaust comes out of a gasoline engine, the air is actually cleaner than the background air in Chicago" (livescience.com)
I don't remember Chicago having dirty air the few times I've been there, but you can't see a lot of nasty stuff you breathe.
"VW Supervisory Board: Heads Will Continue to Roll
By Mark Stevenson on September 23, 2015
As part of now-former CEO Martin Winterkorn’s resignation, the Executive Committee of Volkswagen AG’s Supervisory Board has also issued a statement.
Cliff’s Notes: If you helped engineer the “defeat device,” you might want to polish your LinkedIn profile.
The statement was delivered in point form as follows:
1. The Executive Committee takes this matter extremely seriously. The Executive Committee recognizes not only the economic damage caused, but also the loss of trust among many customers worldwide....
5. The Executive Committee is expecting further personnel consequences in the next days. The internal Group investigations are continuing at a high tempo. All participants in these proceedings that has resulted in unmeasurable harm for Volkswagen, will be subject to the full consequences.
6. The Executive Committee have decided that the company will voluntarily submit a complaint to the State Prosecutors’ office in Brunswick. In the view of the Executive Committee criminal proceedings may be relevant due to the irregularities. The investigations of the State Prosecutor will be supported in all form from the side of Volkswagen...."
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/vw-supervisory-board-heads-will-continue-to-roll/#more-1179097
Of course, one will pled out and implicate everyone else.
I'm not sure of how much if any road testing they do where gas analyzer is strapped to the car and driven under varying conditions but it would probably be a good idea. Even though the black eye should be on VW it does bring up a good point that government regulators need to be more agile and adapt to potential ways the testing system can be manipulated.
The reason why steamships shifted to diesel/ bunker fuel is that bunker fuel diesel is only 25,000 ppm sulfur. Wood/ Coal are way bigger than that ! Shipping by US LAW has ZERO emissions controls!
ULSD @ 15 ppm is nominally delivered @ the pump @ 5 to10 ppm. RUG/PUG @30 ppm can be delivered between 30 ppm to 90 ppm. So RUG/PUG is 2 times to 18 times dirtier.
So if you use biodiesel@ ZERO, just to have mercy, say 1 ppm, RUG/PUG now jumps to 30 times to 90 times dirtier!!!
That's Elon talking, not me.
It seems like what this tells us (again assuming BMW doesn't have "defeat" software) is that a powerful and fuel efficient diesel is possible that meets strict CARB emission standards.
Of course, the 328d has a starting list price of about $40,000, while the no-longer-for-sale diesel Passat started at about $28k iirc.
Not surprisingly, all diesels now have been completely scrubbed off of VW of America's site:
www.vw.com
"Problems at Volkswagen Start in the Boardroom
SEPT. 24, 2015
By JAMES B. STEWART
....I spoke this week to a longtime former senior Volkswagen executive, who agreed that a scandal, especially one involving emissions, was all but inevitable at Volkswagen. He cited the company’s isolation, its clannish board and a deep-rooted hostility to environmental regulations among its engineers....
The Volkswagen board has been especially slow to move on environmental issues, investing less in electric and hybrid engine technology than industry leaders.
“There’s an attitude among the German public that it’s very unfair for the U.S. to target the auto industry over emissions,” Professor Roth said. “If you have electric cars and a coal-fired plant producing the electricity, you gain nothing.”
The former Volkswagen executive said Volkswagen’s engineer-driven culture takes the notion even further. He said the engineers feel that the politicians are guilty of rank hypocrisy, especially in the United States, also grumbling that electric cars make no sense as long as power plants are burning fossil fuels....."
I have two more years on my B to B warranty before I need to be looking. All this should be old news by then.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3436923/germany-energy-records/
To cut to the chase, the American math doesn't add up, it does not pencil out.
US electrical output from solar and wind nation wide @ .04%. Less than one half of 1%.
59% is from coal and nuclear.
So in effect, and de facto, Germany feels like they're being vilified, prosecuted by America for being green. Less PC, for being greener than them. (aka, us) The numbers support the attitudes.
Keep in mind it was the USA that pitched the foreign oil shortage in the 1970's. So when we tell them that there's a shortage and they should produce cars that consume less fuel and they actually provide them to us, we get all bent out of shape.
When you pull out the AQMD stats with the top N0x generators, not being diesel passenger cars, we don't even still get why they are furious. I don't think we even get that the German auto industry is key to Germany's well-being.
Does anyone really doubt this? No problem, just turn off the 59% of the electrical power gotten from clean nuclear & coal and see what will happen. Stop folks in Alaska and anywhere else who burn wood from using it to heat their homes.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Side note on German electricity. They are expanding their coal generation with lignite coal the dirtiest of all to replace Nukes. So much for their Green image.
But brown coal is making an unexpected return. The development has environmentalists worried. Germany is often seen as a model, thanks to its strong push for renewable energy. Politicians here have committed to 80 percent renewable power by 2050, and strong public support and generous subsidies have seen solar and wind power grow dramatically in the past decade. Roughly a quarter of Germany's electricity today comes from renewable sources; in the United States, just 12 percent does. (See related interactive map: "Four Ways to Look at Global Carbon Footprints.")
With this commitment to the "Energiewende," or energy revolution, it's a mystery to many why villages like Atterwasch are still at risk. "The new mine is planned for 2030 to 2070—a time when coal power plants shouldn't even exist anymore," said Huschga.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/02/140211-germany-plans-to-raze-towns-for-brown-coal/
Most of the models in the October report have not been publicly identified. One of the cars tested is the BMW X3, which had emissions calculated at 11 times the European limit, according to the testing company."
More Volkswagen fallout likely; BMW denies cheating on emissions tests (Washington Post)
There's supposedly an Auto Bild retraction on the X3 story, but all I see is a clarifaction that Auto Bild wasn't accusing BMW of using a defeat device, but are still reporting that the X3 doesn't meet the NOx standards in the real world.
"Volkswagen #Dieselgate
Where's the smoking gun?
By Angus MacKenzie | September 25, 2015
....A good place to start asking who knew what, and when did they know it, might be among the engineers credited with authoring a two-part article titled "Volkswagen's New 2.0 L TDI Engine for the Most Stringent Emission Standards," published in the authoritative German engineering journal MTZ in May and June, 2008. They were (and their job titles as listed at the time of publication):
Jens Hadler, Executive Director, Powertrain Development
Falko Rudolph, Head of Diesel Engineering
Richard Dorenkamp, Head of Department, Lowest Emission Engines and Exhaust Aftertreatments
H. Stehr, Group Leader Diesel Engine Combustion
J. Hilzendeger, Group Leader Diesel Engine Durability and Design
Sebastian Kranzusch, Group Leader Power Electronics and Ignition, Drivetrain Electronics
Martina Klsters, Development Engineer Exhaust Aftertreatments, Diesel Engine Development
Dieter Mannigel, Software Design, US Diesel Engines, Drivetrain Electronics
Burkhard Veldten, Group Leader Software Design, Diesel Engine Electronics/Powertrain, Drivetrain Electronics
The article discusses in great technical detail how VW's EA189 2.0-liter four cylinder turbodiesel was "redeveloped to comply with the strictest exhaust fume limits in the world, namely the Tier 2, Bin 5 emission legislation in the USA" for launch in the U.S. market Jetta in mid-2008. A technical highlight of the program was "the implementation of an NOx exhaust gas aftertreatment system".
New engine components, such as an optimized injection system, a low-pressure exhaust gas recirculation system and a new method of cylinder pressure control, the authors claimed, required "the development of new control algorithms and intensive coordination of parameters for this entirely new combustion process".
But it's the summary that, in the context of the scandal now enveloping VW Group, makes perhaps the most interesting reading. The authors claimed VW was able to reduce particulate and NOx emissions from the EA189 engine by more than 90 percent. Moreover: "Adherence to the emission values under customer conditions has been proven in the USA with a large fleet of vehicles and taking the climatic and geographic conditions into account...."
http://wot.motortrend.com/volkswagen_dieselgate.html
"How VW's Plan to Win America Backfired
by Matthew Campbell, Alex Webb, David Welch
September 25, 2015
....Diesels often have a tank of a urea-based solution that’s mixed with exhaust and binds with nitrogen oxides -- a big component of smog -- to reduce emissions. Volkswagen said its smaller cars could meet emissions goals without the extra tank, meaning less weight, better performance, and lower prices....
Too Good to Be True
Volkswagen’s diesels promised the fuel economy of hybrids but with better acceleration, said Maryann Keller, an independent auto consultant. That turned out to be too good to be true. Diesel buyers "saw this as an environmentally acceptable option without sacrificing performance," Keller said, but after the scandal many customers will likely gravitate toward hybrids. "In the U.S., this could kill diesel."
....Even if Winterkorn was unaware of the cheating, experts say it’s unlikely it could have been the work of only a few individuals. Emissions and mileage standards are a central component of car and engine design, affecting weight, performance, and price.
"The system is so intricate that it is totally impossible that there was not, up and down the line, knowledge of what they were doing," said John Alan James, a former consultant for automakers such as General Motors and Volvo...."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/how-vw-s-american-ambitions-planted-the-seeds-of-its-downfall
Any diesel car driver is now perceived (mostly correctly) as a gross polluter, way worse than an Escalade or Suburban driver.
The Touareg is a great diesel vehicle but it is saddled with the prone-to-failure emissions systems required by the onerous CARB/etc requirements.
All the post-2007 emissions crapola cost the consumer BIG up front. and it continues to cost the consumer BIG down the line with lowered MPG and recall more-lowered-MPG and all the VW cheating.
The diesel emissions requirements were an accident/invitation-to-cheat because they were onerous, and glaringly/intentionally beyond the capability of humans to engineer reliable/low-cost/long-term diesel emissions systems.
Soon we will watch *all* the automakers diesel emissions systems fail over long-haul, not via software-switch design, but just due to age. the systems will *all* exceed limits, costing consumers many thousand$ each as they fail around 100k miles.
Tailpipe tests are not necessary, OBD will detect/report the diesel emissions systems failures unless the diesel vehicle OBD software also has cheating cheats.
someone better be checking/disassembling all the OBD software too - gotta subpoena all VW's proprietary source code now that they are known to be lying liars, cheating cheaters.
the VW cheating does seem to be the end of diesel passenger vehicles in USA! who knew they would seal the coffin worse than GM during the 1980s. wow.
consumers will vote with their wallets.
let's have a pool on diesel car percentage of new vehicles sold in USA 2016, if they are allowed to be sold at all! i'll go with -0.4%, since VW will probably be eating/buying-back VW diesels well into 2016.
On other planets, it can be found in various concentrations, the most significant being the atmosphere of Venus, where it is the third-most significant atmospheric gas at 150 ppm. There, it condenses to form clouds, and is a key component of chemical reactions in the planet's atmosphere and contributes to global warming.[9] It has been implicated as a key agent in the warming of early Mars, with estimates of concentrations in the lower atmosphere as high as 100 ppm,[10] though it only exists in trace amounts. On both Venus and Mars, its primary source, like on Earth, is believed to be volcanic. It is also believed to exist in trace amounts in the atmosphere of Jupiter.
Further down the linked page
Inhaling sulfur dioxide is associated with increased respiratory symptoms and disease, difficulty in breathing, and premature death.[40] In 2008, the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists reduced the short-term exposure limit to 0.25 parts per million (ppm). The OSHA PEL is currently set at 5 ppm (13 mg/m3) time-weighted average. NIOSH has set the IDLH at 100 ppm.[41] In 2010, the EPA "revised the primary SO2 NAAQS by establishing a new one-hour standard at a level of 75 parts per billion (ppb). EPA revoked the two existing primary standards because they would not provide additional public health protection given a one-hour standard at 75 ppb."[42
But it's twice the replacement battery cost number the anti-hybrid crowd keeps tossing out there.
More ways to cheat, at least in the EU, are being talked about (via Carscoops).
"Automakers are said to charge the car’s battery before a test, deduct 4 percent from each test result and use incorrect laboratory settings for the inertia of the vehicle. While the companies admit these tricks, they claim they are “legitimate flexibilities”. As a result, the gap between official fuel economy figures and those achieved by an average driver have grown to 40 percent.
[F]or virtually every new model that comes onto the market, the gap between test and real-world performance leaps."
The article doesn't differentiate between diesel and gas cheating so you can assume it the same for gassers..
Where'd this number come from? Aside from turbo cars doing poorer real-world, I've seen nothing like a 40% gap.
They have a fuel economy paper here, but I haven't skimmed it.
http://www.aqmd.gov/docs/default-source/Agendas/aqmp/control-strategy-symposium/hdv-hogo.pdf?sfvrsn=2
If you came to the conclusion NO, you'd be correct.
Again the AQMD slides are very instructive. As one can see, they have identified 11 N0X emitters,, Gasser cars,pick up trucks, SUVs light trucks ARE the # two N0x emitter.
It's commonly known that the heavy duty big rigs are almost 100% diesel. They have none of the emissions controls that diesel cars are required to have. So while the fines are pretty massive, the snapshot shows like it's the same old stuff different day. Diesel cars, even with the alleged lack of N0x compliance aren't even on the radar.
So let's say you can wave your magic wand and make those 100% diesels big rigs, gassers. The gassers will in effect then overtake as THE number one emitters of N0X! So not only have you not solve the problem of the N0x emissions , you've made gassers N0x emissions an even bigger category, an even bigger problem. You have also decreased the fuel mileage from approximately 6 mpg to more like 3 or 4 mpg. So do you think burning even more fuel does to the N0x issue ??
"VW managed fake U.S. test results from Germany, report says
September 25, 2015 16:43 CET
BERLIN (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen executives in Germany controlled the key aspects of emissions tests whose results the carmaker now admits were faked, three people familiar with the company’s U.S. operations told Bloomberg.
The criteria, outcomes and engineering of cars that missed emissions targets were overseen by managers at Volkswagen’s base in Wolfsburg, according to the people who asked not to be identified because they weren’t authorized to speak publicly.
Their accounts show the chain of command and those involved in the deception stretched to Volkswagen headquarters. While the company has asked German prosecutors to open an investigation, the executive committee of the supervisory board has backed former CEO Martin Winterkorn’s statement that he knew nothing about the malfeasance.
Emissions testers at a site in Westlake Village, Calif., evaluated all the cars involved according to criteria sent from Germany and translated into English, and all results were sent back to Germany before being passed to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, one of the people said.
VW executives
If any vehicle failed to meet emissions targets, a team of engineers from Volkswagen headquarters or luxury brand Audi’s base in Ingolstadt was flown in, the person said. After the group had tinkered with the vehicle for about a week, the car would then pass the test. VW had no engineers in the U.S. able to create the mechanism that cheated on the test or who could fix emissions problems, according to two other people...."
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150925/COPY/309259915
In the 1990s, EPA testing showed that the manufacturers of heavy-duty diesel engines were using computer programs to show compliance with emission limits on the EPA test but to change the fueling of the engines in actual use to reduce fuel consumption, but in way that increased emissions of oxides of nitrogen or “NOx.”
So in the case where they in effect do nothing ( to the offending VW diesels), it will make NO, ZERO, NADA measurable differences in N0x emissions, just like it is NOW!!!!!!!
Give a little, take a little.
I did not bring it up because everybody seems to be hysterical on just the one issue: N0x. One more issue seems to be information OVER LOAD to the chicken little crowd.
AQMD also addresses C02. Using one example that I came across on the AQMD site the amount of CO2 is roughly 500% more than N0x!!!
Using the MB GLK 350/250BT- 22 mpg 35 MPG, de facto the Eco types argument is to use 59% more fuel, as opposed to using 37% LESS fuel ( like model)? !
So we wonder why the Germans cite our hypocrisy! ?
"The greenhouse gas not only contributes to global warming but also is a key component in urban ozone pollution, a proven public health risk." (ibtimes)
It appears that the Chicken Little Crowd wants more WAY more poisons! While it would be tempting to say that they don't even believe their own BS, a lot of things are crystal clear! albeit defacto. They be shrilling for higher fuel prices, COAL and NUCLEAR, which is 59.5% of electrical grid production ! Solar and wind production are less than 1%, specifically .04%. The ratio is 1488% to one, in favor of coal & nuclear.
So do you want me to stop confusing the people with the facts?
Some of this hysteria makes those old right-wingers like Joe McCarthy, looking for commies, look like absolute choir boys/girls,
No, not talking about diesels this time.
I think VW just gave the timeline a little nudge forward.
Why don't you tell us your conflict of interest ?
It seems you are either a VW lobbyist /dealer/ shareholder/ employee/ or just a plain fanatic German
P.S : No offense to anyone but the same phrases like "chicken little" is now grating on the nerves
More fallout in California (or maybe less, lol).
"California regulators on Friday voted to reinstate a rule to require a 10% cut in the carbon content of transportation fuels sold in the state by 2020, despite oil industry objections that it would raise gasoline prices.
After it was established by Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, the fuel standard faced several court challenges, including suits by oil companies and a consortium of ethanol producers that argued California couldn’t regulate the production of ethanol outside its borders and the standard favored oil produced in the state. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth District upheld the standard.
Environmentalists viewed the reinstatement of California’s fuel standard as a boost to efforts by Gov. Jerry Brown and other Democrats in the state who have sought to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases from the transportation sector."
California Restores Rule to Cut Carbon in Fuel by 10% (WJS registration link)
To say that the alledged diesel debacle is a self-inflicted gunshot wound is only stating the obvious.
The referred "hysteria" is the whole diesels are evil polluters nonsense that is, really, the prime focus all of a sudden. It isn't about VW cheated on emissions testing, it's about
DIESELS ARE EVIL
, oh, and VW cheating on emissions is proof of that.And so are GASSERs if AQMD statistics are to be believed.
The dictionary definition is way shorter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_emissions
According to this above wiki article, gassers put out 67% more N0x than TDI's. Diesels (10%) also put out much more oxygen than gassers(0).
“We had no cause for suspicion,” German, U.S. co-lead of the International Council on Clean Transportation, said in an interview. “We thought the vehicles would be clean.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-19/volkswagen-emissions-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-group