What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

benjaminh

ruking1 said:

....
Whilel I still want the best for everybody that has bought the affected TDI's, I have already made 17 times over what I paid for my affected TDI ( 2009 Jetta TDI) anyway.

So I will be spring loaded to future auto sector brain farts. It promises to be a very good rest of the 2015 year.

Wow! Congrats on your success. Truly.

Next time you buy a car you can buy an Audi (or 2) if you want....+++

ruking1

benjaminh said:

ruking1 said:

....
Whilel I still want the best for everybody that has bought the affected TDI's, I have already made 17 times over what I paid for my affected TDI ( 2009 Jetta TDI) anyway.

So I will be spring loaded to future auto sector brain farts. It promises to be a very good rest of the 2015 year.

Wow! Congrats on your success. Truly.

Next time you buy a car you can buy an Audi (or 2) if you want....+++

There already are indications that GASSERs are involved!

OEM suppliers stock have been and are affected.

carboy21

ruking1 said:

benjaminh said:

ruking1 said:

....
Whilel I still want the best for everybody that has bought the affected TDI's, I have already made 17 times over what I paid for my affected TDI ( 2009 Jetta TDI) anyway.

So I will be spring loaded to future auto sector brain farts. It promises to be a very good rest of the 2015 year.

Wow! Congrats on your success. Truly.

Next time you buy a car you can buy an Audi (or 2) if you want....+++

There already are indications that GASSERs are involved!

OEM suppliers stock have been and are affected.

You mean VW gassers ?

avalon02wh

Today I read that VW was told back in 2007 about the software and suppressed a whistle-blower in 2011. Ouch. Also hearing reports that Audi and Skoda have millions of vehicles that are impacted. This is getting to be like one of those fire-storms that consumed German cities back in WWII.

And there was this gem about a person(s) leaving notes on VW cars. http://mashable.com/2015/09/28/vw-dieselgate-note/#JveXwvToqmqV You know it is getting bad when people remind you your car company was founded by [non-permissible content removed]. True, but not relevant. I once had someone tell me that my Dodge Colt was made by the same country that made the Zero fighter plane in WWII - Mitsubishi Motors. Again true, but, ancient history that was before my time.

It must be a lot of fun working for VW right now. Loads and loads of fun......

ruking1

carboy21 said:

ruking1 said:

benjaminh said:

ruking1 said:

....
Whilel I still want the best for everybody that has bought the affected TDI's, I have already made 17 times over what I paid for my affected TDI ( 2009 Jetta TDI) anyway.

So I will be spring loaded to future auto sector brain farts. It promises to be a very good rest of the 2015 year.

Wow! Congrats on your success. Truly.

Next time you buy a car you can buy an Audi (or 2) if you want....+++

There already are indications that GASSERs are involved!

OEM suppliers stock have been and are affected.

You mean VW gassers ?

No, other name plates.

Gotta love this! ?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/vw-faces-barrage-of-litigation-1443465416

carboy21

avalon02wh said:

Today I read that VW was told back in 2007 about the software and suppressed a whistle-blower in 2011. Ouch. Also hearing reports that Audi and Skoda have millions of vehicles that are impacted. This is getting to be like one of those fire-storms that consumed German cities back in WWII.

And there was this gem about a person(s) leaving notes on VW cars. http://mashable.com/2015/09/28/vw-dieselgate-note/#JveXwvToqmqV You know it is getting bad when people remind you your car company was founded by [non-permissible content removed]. True, but not relevant. I once had someone tell me that my Dodge Colt was made by the same country that made the Zero fighter plane in WWII - Mitsubishi Motors. Again true, but, ancient history that was before my time.

It must be a lot of fun working for VW right now. Loads and loads of fun......

I still cannot believe that they thought they can get away with it.

They must have a Plan B

thecardoc3

Ie

stever said:

4 Reasons Americans Aren't Buying Volkswagens Anymore (businessinsider.com)

Story is from July 2014. I think the one point that rings most true is the perception that VW's reliability isn't up to snuff.

I have an Audi A4 in for a P0411 and it has historical misfires on all cylinders with some worse than others. The ignition coils on these have been updated seventeen times..........

ruking1

carboy21 said:

avalon02wh said:

Today I read that VW was told back in 2007 about the software and suppressed a whistle-blower in 2011. Ouch. Also hearing reports that Audi and Skoda have millions of vehicles that are impacted. This is getting to be like one of those fire-storms that consumed German cities back in WWII.

And there was this gem about a person(s) leaving notes on VW cars. http://mashable.com/2015/09/28/vw-dieselgate-note/#JveXwvToqmqV You know it is getting bad when people remind you your car company was founded by [non-permissible content removed]. True, but not relevant. I once had someone tell me that my Dodge Colt was made by the same country that made the Zero fighter plane in WWII - Mitsubishi Motors. Again true, but, ancient history that was before my time.

It must be a lot of fun working for VW right now. Loads and loads of fun......

I still cannot believe that they thought they can get away with it.

They must have a Plan B

GM/Chysler and almost Ford have already set precedence.

benjaminh

from that wsj article:

"Miles Mueller, a 53-year-old analyst at a local electric utility in San Antonio who signed onto Mr. Hilliard’s lawsuit, just traded in a 2011 Volkswagen Jetta diesel car even though he got less than what he owes for it.

Mr. Mueller said he was attracted by advertisements trumpeting the Jetta as a clean diesel. “That’s why I bought the car,” he said.

He wants Volkswagen to cut him a check for thousands of dollars that he would put toward debt on a new pickup truck he bought. “You know what? I’d say, ‘OK, you know you messed up. I’ll never buy your product again. At least you…admitted it and we’re done.’ ”

nyccarguy

If anybody thinks that VW is going to sell new TDIs for 40 - 50% off of sticker, you are dreaming. The dealers "paid" a certain price for these cars, now if part of VW's plan to appease a very loyal customer base is to offer larger than usual incentives on new gassers to people who trade in TDIs in order to make them happy customers then that is certainly within their right.

carboy21

nyccarguy said:

If anybody thinks that VW is going to sell new TDIs for 40 - 50% off of sticker, you are dreaming. The dealers "paid" a certain price for these cars, now if part of VW's plan to appease a very loyal customer base is to offer larger than usual incentives on new gassers to people who trade in TDIs in order to make them happy customers then that is certainly within their right.

What are they going to do with the ones on the dealer's lot ? Send it to the scrap yard ? Send it to the factory to disassemble it and reuse the parts ?

They can sell those steeply discounted with a waiver signed for no further compensation. Of course the DOT should allow registering it . If not , off they go back to factory or parts salvage yards.

kyfdx

carboy21 said:

nyccarguy said:

If anybody thinks that VW is going to sell new TDIs for 40 - 50% off of sticker, you are dreaming. The dealers "paid" a certain price for these cars, now if part of VW's plan to appease a very loyal customer base is to offer larger than usual incentives on new gassers to people who trade in TDIs in order to make them happy customers then that is certainly within their right.

What are they going to do with the ones on the dealer's lot ? Send it to the scrap yard ? Send it to the factory to disassemble it and reuse the parts ?

Enable the emissions system and sell them.

carboy21

kyfdx said:

carboy21 said:

nyccarguy said:

If anybody thinks that VW is going to sell new TDIs for 40 - 50% off of sticker, you are dreaming. The dealers "paid" a certain price for these cars, now if part of VW's plan to appease a very loyal customer base is to offer larger than usual incentives on new gassers to people who trade in TDIs in order to make them happy customers then that is certainly within their right.

What are they going to do with the ones on the dealer's lot ? Send it to the scrap yard ? Send it to the factory to disassemble it and reuse the parts ?

Enable the emissions system and sell them.

Who will buy the neutered TDIs ? Still needs to be deeply discounted LOL

gagrice

Miles Mueller is a dreamer, he gave up any chance of compensation when he traded his VW TDI in on another brand PU Truck.

My guess is VW will come up with a fix, and as long as they still get EPA or close to EPA mileage, the courts will toss out all the class action suits. It sounds like Bosch wrote the code and supposedly warned VW. Someone will take the fall.

benjaminh

It's difficult to guess how this will pan out in the long run. But right now it doesn't look good in terms of this question: will a large percentage of current US VW diesel owners ever consider buying a VW again in the future? The anecdotes suggest that, as of now, the percentage of those who feel duped and say they'll probably never buy a VW again is significant. For this scandal some individual owners are facing a kind of personal embarrassment. They felt clever for buying a clean diesel instead of a hybrid or gas vehicle, and may have even bragged about it with friends and co-workers, but now they feel like they've been made fools of by Volkswagen. That feeling of having the rug pulled out from beneath you by a company you trusted is going to be tough for some to ever get over.

benjaminh

from Auto News:

"EPA should do more road emissions tests, critics say
Jeff Plungis
September 29, 2015 - 7:11 am ET

WASHINGTON (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG's ability to cheat on emissions screening for seven years is putting pressure on U.S. regulators to change the assessments by adding more road tests to complement laboratory analysis.

The EPA vowed last week to do more spot-checks on data generated from indoor labs. Yet the agency remains wary of broader use of road tests, saying they are costly and the lab tests are still needed for scientific and legal accuracy.

Environmental groups called the EPA's approach flawed....

The EPA was under fire two decades ago after real-world tests showed gasoline-powered cars were emitting far more pollution than lab tests suggested they should, DeCicco said.

The agency hired technicians with remote sensing systems to go to places like tunnels, where emissions are concentrated, or freeway entrances, where cars are accelerating. They compared readings with what models suggested pollution levels should be according to automakers' lab results.

There were huge discrepancies, DeCicco said. Automakers were designing their systems according to a federal test cycle developed in the 1970s. The test was run too slow and with air-conditioning off, which skewed the results.

In response, the EPA overhauled its lab tests to more closely mimic the way drivers actually drive. They added more acceleration, higher top speeds, aggressive starting and stopping and turned air-conditioning systems on.

The EPA has equipped big-rig trucks with emissions-measuring devices since a 1998 consent decree signed by truck makers...."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150929/OEM11/150929807/epa-should-do-more-road-emissions-tests-critics-say

thecardoc3

gagrice said:

Miles Mueller is a dreamer, he gave up any chance of compensation when he traded his VW TDI in on another brand PU Truck.

There are many consumers just like him that only see this as a chance at a money grab. That's why they jump onto the idea of the class action lawsuits. The reality of most of those is once the lawsuits are finally settled the lawyers cash in big time while the average consumer will likely get some coupons for some free (or discounted)oil changes on whatever car that they trade their TDI on.

gagrice said:

My guess is VW will come up with a fix, and as long as they still get EPA or close to EPA mileage, the courts will toss out all the class action suits. It sounds like Bosch wrote the code and supposedly warned VW. Someone will take the fall.

We all will one way or the other and that's the part that so many refuse to recognize. All these things do is redistribute some of the wealth and you are far more likely to be on the side that is going to pay a little out because of this than you are the one who will get to pocket something. It's all a bit like the lottery which is nothing more than a tax on people who are bad at math.

carboy21

Class action lawsuits benefits the lawyers. Consumers get a small payout less then may be thousand bucks a car if they are lucky.
Best is to exempt the existing TDI owners from any EPA emission standards and just fine the VW for all the pollution they will generate for the life of those cars.

benjaminh

from Reuters:

"Business News | Tue Sep 29, 2015
Volkswagen to refit cars affected by emissions scandal
BERLIN | BY ANDREAS CREMER

Volkswagen announced plans on Tuesday to refit up to 11 million vehicles and overhaul its namesake brand to try to move on from the scandal over its cheating on diesel emissions tests.

New Chief Executive Matthias Mueller said the German carmaker would ask customers "in the next few days" to have diesel vehicles that contained illegal software refitted, a move which some analysts have said could cost more than $6.5 billion....

The company is under huge pressure to address the worst business crisis in its 78-year history, which has wiped more than a third off its market value, sent shock waves through the global car market and could harm Germany's economy.

"We are facing a long trudge and a lot of hard work," Mueller told a closed-door gathering of about 1,000 top managers at Volkswagen's Wolfsburg headquarters late on Monday.

"We will only be able to make progress in steps and there will be setbacks," he said, according to a text seen by Reuters...."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/29/us-volkswagen-emissions-plan-idUSKCN0RT0OL20150929

texases

So it'll cost about $600/vehicle. Wonder what it is? Seems cheap for a urea injection retrofit, high for a computer reprogram.

ruking1

carboy21 said:

Class action lawsuits benefits the lawyers. Consumers get a small payout less then may be thousand bucks a car if they are lucky.
Best is to exempt the existing TDI owners from any EPA emission standards and just fine the VW for all the pollution they will generate for the life of those cars.

That acutually makes all the sense ( in the world) for the less than 500 k USA VW TDI population. Many far, far, far worse emitters are given passes for their useful lives. (MINUS the chicken little aspects)

In effect, that's exactly the concept on the fuel side also, aka, what's happening on the gasser side. RUG/PUG by law is allowed to be delivered at the pump 30 ppm sulfur (standard) to 90 ppm . Anything over 30 ppm ( up to 3x's dirtier) is allowed to be delivered via off-line fees.

ULSD is delivered at 15 pppm (standard) . However nominally at the pumps, it is delivered from 5 to 10 ppm. The reason for that is unlike gas, anything over the standard is subject to massive fines. So the reality is that ULSD is cleaner at the pumps that the standard.

Bottom line are RUG/PUG is anywhere from 2x to 18 x's dirtier than ULSD.

stever

The WSJ says "In vehicles with 1.2-liter and 1.6-liter engines, which aren’t sold in the U.S., a hardware change will likely be necessary because a fuel injection pump has to be replaced to ensure a smooth ride, Mr. Buhlmann said. In Europe, vehicles with 2-liter engines will only need a software update, but it’s not clear whether that would suffice in the U.S. due to different standards."

ruking1

stever said:

The WSJ says "In vehicles with 1.2-liter and 1.6-liter engines, which aren’t sold in the U.S., a hardware change will likely be necessary because a fuel injection pump has to be replaced to ensure a smooth ride, Mr. Buhlmann said. In Europe, vehicles with 2-liter engines will only need a software update, but it’s not clear whether that would suffice in the U.S. due to different standards."

The TDI issues and problems are TOTALLY manageable, almost to the zzzzzzzzzzz point, again MINUS the chicken little aspects. When you factor in the chicken little aspects, it almost takes on a religious persecution hysteria. It takes on a fever of its own, sort of an ISIS persecuting Christians fervor.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/29/444426362/vw-says-it-will-retrofit-diesel-cars-to-fix-test-cheating-module?sc=tw

Ad Blue system new is @ $ 350. They do not list software patch $ costs.

Here is a chicken little slant. Now keep in mind Winterkorns excoriation gives him a rumored 69 M!! So @ $350 per unit, his GP could fix over 197,000 units! ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/29/opinion/roger-cohen-volkswagen-unreliable-troubling-germany.html?_r=0

gagrice

carboy21 said:

Class action lawsuits benefits the lawyers. Consumers get a small payout less then may be thousand bucks a car if they are lucky.
Best is to exempt the existing TDI owners from any EPA emission standards and just fine the VW for all the pollution they will generate for the life of those cars.

That makes the most sense of any idea so far. My only experience with class action came from faulty plumbing in a mobile home I owned. It was a 1972 home with plastic pipe that was failing. I turned it into my insurance, who promptly told me they had a bucket of money from Shell for just such failures. So unless homeowners found out the insurance companies would keep the millions awarded.

And from what I have witnessed you are absolutely right about the attorneys being the big winners on both sides of the class action lawsuit.

gagrice

In the bigger scope of things, I would say the happenings at the UN far outweigh this little glitch in the auto industry. Control of ME oil is now in the hands of Putin and the Russian empire. He is the only world leader on good terms with most of the major oil producing countries.

The baton was officially transferred Monday to the world’s new sole superpower — and Vladimir Putin willingly picked it up.

President Obama (remember him?) embraced the ideals espoused by the United Nations’ founders 70 years ago: Diplomacy and “international order” will win over time, while might and force will lose.

Putin, too, appealed to UN laws (as he sees them), but he also used his speech to announce the formation of a “broad international coalition” to fight ISIS in Syria and Iraq.

http://nypost.com/2015/09/29/obama-has-turned-putin-into-the-worlds-most-powerful-leader/

ruking1

Real slow news diesel day ! Had a 5000 mile tire rotation done on the MB GLK 250 BT. It's running like a proverbial top @ app 21,000 miles. I tried to talk up getting the next set of tires and what brand with the tire guru, Way too early was the look he was giving me.

benjaminh

Real Time with Bill Maher: VW Ads

Sick humor, but kinda funny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGiorsRXevA

Michaell

benjaminh said:

Real Time with Bill Maher: VW Ads

Sick humor, but kinda funny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGiorsRXevA

Thanks for the laugh, today.

avalon02wh

Saw this on the Minnesota web site today.

“Greg Pratt, an air quality scientist at the MPCA, who also happens to own a VW diesel, thinks the German's company's trickery is shameful. But he's also worried about an unintended backlash against diesel cars. "I hope we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Diesel passenger vehicles are very efficient in their fuel use compared to gasoline powered versions. That means less carbon in the atmosphere adding to climate change."
http://www.pca.state.mn.us/index.php/about-mpca/mpca-news/featured-stories/the-vw-scandal-and-minnesotas-air.html

Turns out that higher mpg is not the same as creating less CO2 when comparing RUG to diesel. As an example, my Altima generates 284 grams per mile of CO2 while a diesel Passat is sending 298 grams per mile out the tailpipe. This is the case even with the VW getting a combined mpg of 34 while the Altima is 31 mpg. The Altima also uses less oil per year with an Annual Petroleum Consumption of only 10.6 barrels a year as opposed to the diesel Passat at 11.2 barrels. The answer to why the Altima creates less CO2 can be found at http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=307&t=11 “About 19.64 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain ethanol. About 22.38 pounds of CO2 are produced by burning a gallon of diesel fuel.”

For me it is even more obvious, the best vehicles in the family sedan category are powered by RUG engines.

texases

And just about all gas is E10, so a gallon of diesel produces 25% more CO2 than a gallon of E10. So a diesel has to get 25% mpgs just to break even, CO2-wise. Now let's add in the $2000 or so added cost (now that we know that urea injection is mandatory!), and the case for diesel, environmental and (especially) economic isn't there for most cars. Maybe light duty trucks, OK, but not cars.

benjaminh

texases said:

So it'll cost about $600/vehicle. Wonder what it is? Seems cheap for a urea injection retrofit, high for a computer reprogram.

That's just for Europe with its weak pollution standards.

Apparently the tough CARB standards are going to take several months to meet. VW's engineers have to earn their wings for real now....I'm beginning to think a buy back might not be impossible after all.

stever

"GM has been told by the EPA and the California Air Resources Board that the new diesel-powered versions of the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon pickups will not be certified until they have been tested on the road as well as in the lab."

GM's new diesel pickups first to get extra scrutiny from EPA, CARB (Automotive News)

gagrice

avalon02wh said:

Saw this on the Minnesota web site today.

Turns out that higher mpg is not the same as creating less CO2 when comparing RUG to diesel. As an example, my Altima generates 284 grams per mile of CO2 while a diesel Passat is sending 298 grams per mile out the tailpipe. This is the case even with the VW getting a combined mpg of 34 while the Altima is 31 mpg. The Altima also uses less oil per year with an Annual Petroleum Consumption of only 10.6 barrels a year as opposed to the diesel Passat at 11.2 barrels. The answer to why the Altima creates less CO2 can be found at http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=307&t=11 “About 19.64 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) are produced from burning a gallon of gasoline that does not contain ethanol. About 22.38 pounds of CO2 are produced by burning a gallon of diesel fuel.”

For me it is even more obvious, the best vehicles in the family sedan category are powered by RUG engines.

Nice try but no cigar. Average MPG for the Altima on Fuelly is 30 MPG, with the average for the Passat TDI is 40 MPG. The Passat is in the top ten best mileage cars on the highway. That means using your numbers from the EIA the Altima puts out 285 K/Mile and the Passat TDI puts out 254 K/Mile. You are the one causing GW. If you insist on 31 MPG many Passat owners are getting high 40s.

It looks like most people are Not getting what they paid for in Mileage with the Altima. From the EPA site it is even worse with the average Altima MPG being 28.8. Heck my 5000 lb Touareg gets that good and I drive it 80 MPH on short freeway trips. Hard to keep that 400+ lbs of torque below 75 MPH on the highway.

Most VW TDI owners are very happy with their cars and 3 of the top ten mileage vehicles are VW TDIs. Pretty amazing considering how few their are on the roads.

gagrice

Check the 2015 Passat TDI, for owners posting. average is over 44 MPG.That is the 2015 with Urea which should not be in this fiasco.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35364&id=35019

ruking1

Let's see in the MB 350/250 BT, 22 mpg/35 mpg, the math indicates that one produces more CO2 per mile driven than the other. I'm OK with you picking the gasser that pollutes MORE per mile driven. De facto, it seems like you're OK with somebody driving a diesel that pollutes less per mile driven, Thank You ! I'm OK with your choice to spew more and you should be OK with mine to pollute less. Just make sure you vilify the correct choice !

Insofar as E10 to the E100, it burns even more and you get even less mpg. Again, the math indicates one produces even more pollution then the other .

ruking1

I did something I dread, this evening.

Let me cut to the chase: the 14 MB 250 BT posted 37 miles a gallon!?

Basically, did about 110 mile round-trip, in almost total commute, bumper to bumper wall to wall, stop and go traffic, ending up in San Francisco, CA. Even on return @ 10:30 pm, it was bumper to bumper rush hour traffic in San Francisco. We had 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 total folks in the CUV, to add to the mix. The pleasant surprise of this "commute" was the mpg posting. We were able to do more normal freeway speeds for some legs of this ordeal.

nyccarguy

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/plenty-of-non-vw-diesel-cars-and-suvs-available-that-meet-emissions-requirements.html

No VW clean diesels? No Problem says edmunds.com

ruking1

Yes & yes! 2/3 of (my VW) TDI's meet emissions requirements! So does the MB. @ this point. Unless they TEST my 2009 Jetta TDI, (on the suspects list) it is innocent till proven guilty. Indeed, it has been proved innocent by CARB required testing @ least 3 times with flying colors. The same is true with the gassers.

Here is interesting article, TMI that really supports the concept of possibly exempting the app 500,000 "suspect" TDI's! (Per thecardoc3's post) There are very brief reference why nobody in their right mind is doing manufacturing in the US.

Or, ...$200. per car?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-may-not-face-environmental-criminal-charges-1443567204

fintail

I just saw a banner ad for Dieselgate, claiming you could be entitled to "damages" or similar. Lawyers, what can't they do?

stever

Some link said there were over two dozen suits have already been filed seeking class action status and the forum shopping is going on now. One group of lawyers want the GM ignition recall judge to handle it (DC?) and another wants the cases to go to Texas, presumably because of higher jury awards there.

gagrice

nyccarguy said:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/plenty-of-non-vw-diesel-cars-and-suvs-available-that-meet-emissions-requirements.html

No VW clean diesels? No Problem says edmunds.com

Good for Edmunds. They did not jump on the diesel haters bandwagon. So far my VW Touareg TDI is considered a Clean Diesel.

gagrice

fintail said:

I just saw a banner ad for Dieselgate, claiming you could be entitled to "damages" or similar. Lawyers, what can't they do?

The ambulance chasing attorneys better stay way back of the VW diesels, or they may get some horrible disease, from those excess fumes. The only sad thing about the diesel bus load of attorneys going over a cliff, was the one empty seat.

ruking1

So one scenario will be $200 penalty, $350 for either the AdBlue addition or software flash version or combination. One is talking about $300 to $600 per car. This is of course, would be minus the chicken little aspects.

texases

$350 to put in an entire AdBlue system? Sounds way low to me.

ruking1

This figure was pegged in a posted article on this site, for the cost of an Adblue system brand-new. So in lieu of the actual figures, it could be low, high, anything?

So what would you peg the chickens little aspects @?

texases

Well, TTAC estimated the parts would be $2,500 retail, plus labor. I can't imagine the total cost per car at $350, development, parts, labor. Got a link?
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/heres-might-cost-fix-vw-car/

gagrice

texases said:

$350 to put in an entire AdBlue system? Sounds way low to me.

Someone posted a piece earlier that said the $300 cost for installation was the deciding factor on not using Urea injection. Does seem low for a retrofit. Kind of a colostomy bag fix. :@

ruking1

I have already posted where I read the article, in passing, so it's up to you to look for it.

The thing is I think it's to VW's benefit for that (perceived) retail cost to be even (far) higher than that ( your posted estimate)

Off topic, it would seem that the 2009 TDI (does not have SCR ( Ad Blue) , nor new engine, etc., would probably be due only the software flash. An add on Fed emissions warranty is probably in order. That would be one more advantage to keeping this one to 240,000 miles PLUS.

xwesx

stever said:

"GM has been told by the EPA and the California Air Resources Board that the new diesel-powered versions of the Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon pickups will not be certified until they have been tested on the road as well as in the lab."

GM's new diesel pickups first to get extra scrutiny from EPA, CARB (Automotive News)

That's a lawsuit in the making, too! After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander....

xwesx

texases said:

And just about all gas is E10, so a gallon of diesel produces 25% more CO2 than a gallon of E10.

As long as you pretend that the production of ethanol isn't a massive energy-wasting (and CO2-producing) endeavor, I suppose you could, possibly, have a point.