This article says VW saved $50 per car by not using Urea treatment. I think I will take PBS research over TTAC most any day. I don't doubt if you have to have your SCR replaced at your own expense it would be very high.
For larger, more expensive vehicles, hiding the extra kit involved in SCR is easier, both in terms of packaging and price. But on smaller cars like the Volkswagen Golf and Jetta, SCR is less than ideal. There’s not a lot of room to put the urea tank, pump, and other equipment, and price-conscious consumers may balk at the added expense, which costs the manufacturer about $50 more for a 2.0-liter engine than the alternative, according to a study by ICCT. That equates to a cost savings of over $500 million over 11 million cars.
What was it GM saved by not fixing their killer ignition switch?
Colorado Congresswoman Diana DeGette cited a 2005 GM document that she said showed a cost of 57 cents per fix.
If the people with smog producing VWs think they can extort large sums from VW, look at history.
Lawyers hired to compensate victims of General Motors' faulty ignition switches have finished determining which claims are eligible, rejecting 91% of them.
The compensation fund led by lawyer Kenneth Feinberg approved 399 of the 4,343 claims filed and rejected 3,944.
So all that chicken little stuff to be able to reject 91% of claims. To chose to pay only 399 claims, or 9.2%. ? The lawyers pocket the majority of the penalties and fees ? I am totally in the wrong profession.
So let me get this correct, the wolves are in charge of the hen houses? Aka, the inmates are running the asylum ?
Geez like I have said, you can't even make this stuff up.
I wonder how many actual owners have sued? I see law firms advertising for people to come forth with their horrid VW TDI.
Well using my 2009 as an example, what will I sue for? I am happy with it!
He said a crime was committed? What crime was that? What real proof (burden of evidence) indicates mine is a criminal?
CARB has said @ least 4x's mine passes with flying colors. They won't even test my now suspect one!! The very same people that wants to make sure I have justice, want to make MY (the) car runs like crap, with zero proof.
CARB in pursuing its anti diesel agenda, wants to do a mini eminent domain, if I do not do their crappy fix.
So the lawyers will probably make more fees than the actual cost of the crappy fix. What incentive do I have ?
If anything, I should sue CARB and EPA, and hope the lawyers drive GM cars with faulty ignitions.!
Fortune has a different take on the number of US deaths potentially caused by VW's diesel mess - 8 to 34 (as opposed to the ~100+ in the recent NYT's story).
Another band aid fix for diesel school buses has been announced by the EPA. (news10.com) No estimate of the number of kids killed by the emissions was offered in the story.
The anonymous closet [non-permissible content removed] wanna be can buy me a new TDI anytime he/she/transgender wants!
Bankruptcy à la Chrysler and GM looks more appealing, the longer this drags on. Maybe VW will have a bank of lawyers that can reject 91% of the claims!
I wonder how many actual owners have sued? I see law firms advertising for people to come forth with their horrid VW TDI.
My guess is that there's at least one lead plaintiff in every suit filed, and likely two or three of them. If you do a news search for "Volkswagen suit", you'll get lots of hits from lots of states.
Two firms just filed in New Mexico, for example, representing eight owners. (santafenewmexican.com) My guess is that there's at least 100 named owners at this point.
And in addition to owners complaining about "fraud" and loss of value of their cars, the stockholders are suing as well. And it's not just limited to the US; there's links about class actions in Canada, Israel and Italy.
Some young lawyers may be working on this mess the rest of their careers.
The costs to engineer and integrate urea (DEF/AdBlue) injection into the selective catalyst reduction (SCR) system might have only cost VW the quoted $350 per vehicle, but that's different than the cost to add such a system onto a car that has already been built and sold. To make a change to vehicles already on the road requires additional development, testing and certification costs, then the labor to remove/replace/add components as well as the actual cost of those parts. If you add all that up it could easily be a couple grand or more to retrofit each car (if this does end up being required).
As an example, let's say a manufacturer offers a limited slip differential option for their vehicle and it costs the consumer $500 extra. The automaker might only be paying $50 for the standard, open differential but it costs them $400 to buy the limited slip unit in quantity. When they're already building a transaxle or rear axle assembly it doesn't cost them any more money to install one or the other. There's some engineering, testing and development costs, but the automaker can afford to sell you an upgrade from the factory for that $500 and maybe make a very small profit.
Let's say the consumer decided to buy a car that didn't have the limited slip option but wanted to add that feature to their car. Because the automaker bought a massive amount of them in bulk from their supplier we'll say they negotiated a $400 per unit price, but if you as a consumer went to JTEKT (Torsen), Eaton or Quaife their wholesale cost in smaller quantities might be $600-800 per unit. We'll assume you could buy at that price and not retail markup, you then have to buy an installation kit with new shims, bearings, gaskets, fluid, etc. and you also have to pay to remove the old and install the new differential into the transaxle or axle assembly at $100 per hour that your dealer charges. This could easily turn out to be $1200-1500 or more and end up being a grand more expensive than just ordering the car with the option.
Same principle for adding urea/DEF injection. If they just added the tank, pump, lines, injector and designed it into the SCR system and installed it in place of the current emission components (that don't meet standards), it might have only cost VW a few hundred dollars more. But now they would need to source a batch of parts, possibly replace other components already on the car (such as maybe a different/new lean NOx trap/catalyst assembly with a urea injection port), pay dealer labor rates (at the lower warranty reimbursement amounts instead of retail labor prices, but it could still be many hours per car), plus VW has the expense to completely redevelop the engine management programming (i.e. software tune/calibration), durability testing and engineering costs, re-certification, testing costs and so on.
If they would have integrated the hardware from the start before they did all the testing, certification, etc. it might have "only" cost the few hundred dollars quoted. Now it would likely cost way more to reengineer the car to add that feature. Before calling out VW for not wanting to spend what seems like a small amount, remember that the profit margin on small cars is pretty tight and automakers look for any way possible to save pennies and dollars. If you went to the program manager and said, hey, we could save multiple hundred dollars per car by not integrating urea/DEF injection and we can sort-of get the car to appear to pass compliance testing it would be a calculated risk but would be a tough business decision to pass up.
When you bounce that against the per-unit profit of say $600., anything over that is almost nonsensical !!
So suppose the US EPA/CARB were able to levy a $37,500 fine per TDI unit, 500,000 units @ issue) ./ = 62.5 years of profit. That means it will be cheaper for VW to go away for more than two generations, than come to some kind of agreement, aka $ 600 per unit and UNDER. What does this mean in real English? Far less than $ 300 M.
So here are five political ramifications:
1. Wipe out investment of the state of Lower Saxony, it's kind a like the California economy being totally bankrupt. 2. Wipe out the equivalent of the UAW in Germany, as German auto unions own a pretty large minority chunk of VW and in their pensions
3. Decimate the German auto sector.
4. Destabilize the German economy, already in a recession bordering on depression (actually it is in a depression, masquerading as a recession )
5. Get zero of a lot of dollars ($37,500) versus almost all of the dollars of $600.
So does anybody really care if we get the sacrificial Gertrude's,Hans's, Frantz's, Alda's, Bertha's Dieter's, Luanna's,Wolfgang's?
Does anyone on this board think that it will NOT send shockwaves through our logistical food chain ?
I think VW has more at risk with the 10.5 million TDIs it sold elsewhere. US will be a problem, for sure, but I think the rest of the world could be an even bigger problem.
On a TMI Off topic note, SJMN puts a range of 250 miles for a 90 kWh battery, Tesla . @ CA penalty tier of app .37 to .45 per kWh for .1332 to .162 cents per mile driven vs PUG @ $2.74/22mph=.125 cents per mile driven vs ULSD @ $2.49/35 mpg=.071 cents per mile driven.
When you consider VW only sold 367k vehicles last year in the USA, that is not much of their bottom line. If they cannot come up with a cheap fix, they may be better off filing for BK in the USA. If the EPA tries to extort more than VW can make over 10-20 years as has been mentioned, pulling out of the US market would be the smartest thing to do. Put thousands more on the welfare roles. No big deal we already have 93 million able bodied people not working in the country. EPA don't give a rip, they are putting thousands of coal miners out of a job.
I think VW has more at risk with the 10.5 million TDIs it sold elsewhere. US will be a problem, for sure, but I think the rest of the world could be an even bigger problem.
Rest of the World or the Europe is not going to damage a top German company specially when Germany is the "the master puppeteer" of the EU. There are no class action lawsuits in Europe. Americans are making a mountain out of mole hill. American ambulance chasing lawyers are salivating at that thought of billions in payout but its not going to happen. Ask Boeing aircraft company who will lose all its German orders for 777 and 787
I think VW has more at risk with the 10.5 million TDIs it sold elsewhere. US will be a problem, for sure, but I think the rest of the world could be an even bigger problem.
Yep! From our perspective, that is a total no brainer, 11 M to .5 M = 22 X's bigger!
But I've already posted the article about why VW will not get sued by the rest of the world. .
I think VW has more at risk with the 10.5 million TDIs it sold elsewhere. US will be a problem, for sure, but I think the rest of the world could be an even bigger problem.
Yep! From our perspective, that is a total no brainer, 11M to .5 M = 22 X's bigger!
But I've already posted the article about why VW will not get sued by the rest of the world. .
Agreed You cannot destroys another country's top automotive sector because you want a clean air in California which is already worst polluted by the number of forest fires every year.
The EPA doesn't want to put anyone out of business with a fine, and they've said that in the past. I read an article somewhere estimating the fine might be closer to $3 billion, which is still huge, but right now VW has c. $24 billion in cash. I think they'll survive the fine.
Anyone care to calculate whether Germany's order for Boeing aircraft is more valuable in $$ versus the fines VW will have to pay for TDI scandal ?
I will wager, nothing will happen except a token fine of 600$ per every TDI sold.
The crashed Malaysian 777 Boeing cost roughly 320 M.
The Boeing 787–9 is 250 million. Airlines never repay MSRP. It is reputed to cost roughly $117 million. The cost to build this Boeing plane is actually $160 million. It will be a loss leader until they sell 1900 planes.
Want to crush another set of unions ? It is pretty simple to do ! Lose the contract selling Boeing planes to Germany. (To any other part of the world, for that matter) All Merkel has to say to little Stevie Urkle (BHO admin): given the $300 million in fines that VW may be forced to pay, we now can't afford 1 ,2, 3 Boeing airplanes !
It is an extremely easy case to make that buying European Airbus's makes more far more sense to buy for a European country.
Looks like Italy, at least, allows class action suits. However, the spokesperson for the group filing the Italian suit says they aren't "real" class action suits.
Israel has a form of them (globes.co.il) and here's one of several that have been filed in Canada. (kelownanow.com) Here's one gearing up in the UK. (globallegalpost.com)
Another group suing is "is investigating whether the "defeat devices" were developed at Volkswagen's Electronic Research Laboratory in Belmont, California. The 157,000 square feet lab represents the entire Volkswagen Group in applied research and development." (nbcbayarea.com)
Another group suing is "is investigating whether the "defeat devices" were developed at Volkswagen's Electronic Research Laboratory in Belmont, California. The 157,000 square feet lab represents the entire Volkswagen Group in applied research and development." (nbcbayarea.com)
This is the VW agency that gave us the advanced look at the DARPA entries! Their VW Touareg entries happen to win!
DOD's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
( for those newer to the site: self driving, self navigating vehicles)
I'm afraid the 2015 Passat IS included in the "fiasco". All the clean diesels have the cheat device. They found it on a 2013, but VW acknowledged it was on all of them.
"Shame and Degradation in Wolfsburg: The Fallout from the VW Diesel Scandal September 30, 2015 at 5:01 pm by Jens Meiners
Has an automaker ever been knocked off its axis quite so dramatically as has happened with Volkswagen in the wake of it being caught cheating on diesel-engine emissions? The company has had its head lopped off in a single strike. And by that, we don’t just mean Martin Winterkorn, who stepped down just days after a humiliating apology in which he conceded the company’s deliberate wrongdoing while trying to dispel the assumption that he knew exactly what was going on.
While we continue to wait for the full facts about who did what, it appears that a faction within VW thought they could cheat their way to passing U.S. emissions tests with engine-management software that altered emissions during the test cycle. Who came up with the idea, who approved it, and who implemented it remains to be seen. We expect this information to be revealed soon, and the implications for those involved likely will be harsh.
The apparent disregard for the American consumer sheds a bright light on VW’s inability to understand the world’s biggest market, one in which their share is a fraction of their major competitors....
One thing is certain: VW can’t and won’t write off the U.S. and other North American markets; the company’s recent investment in production sites and new product in the region is vast and has yet to pay off. All eyes are now on North America, and one sign is putting heavyweight Winfried Vahland in charge of VW’s newly created North American Region (NAR). The role also secures him a seat on the VW brand’s board. (VW USA CEO Michael Horn will stay in his current role; after it had initially leaked that the supervisory board was looking to sack him, the American dealer body weighed in with a strong vote of confidence.)
Given its position at the center of the crisis, and its importance in terms of the bottom line, VW North America will gain more clout in Wolfsburg....
We spoke to company and industry insiders to get further insights. Here are a few observations:
*Communications are being extremely tightly controlled by headquarters; even the usually vocal dealers are reluctant to comment, and the sub-brands—including Audi, some of whose vehicles are also caught in the scandal—are keeping a low profile.
*The conspiracy theories that amount to the assertion that the EPA wants to hurt a German brand are baloney. The EPA is similarly harsh with American and Japanese carmakers, but it’s true that when the EPA puts its boot on a company’s throat, it won’t let off. VW has grossly underestimated the EPA’s power and inexplicably failed to go public before the story broke, despite having ample warning.
*The involved executives need to be prepared for a legal backlash that could affect them personally and financially...."
Also the BHO administration has taken the politicialization of the EPA to loftier heights. So they were particularly harsh to South Korean OEMs to the tune of about $292 per car. . So if they're equally as harsh to VW, it shouldn't exceed that by too much. So $146 M comes to mind. Much more than that and the theory doesn't hold water.
Another group suing is "is investigating whether the "defeat devices" were developed at Volkswagen's Electronic Research Laboratory in Belmont, California. The 157,000 square feet lab represents the entire Volkswagen Group in applied research and development."
It would be ironic if the defeat hardware/software came from California. This says it was standard software provided by Bosch. Will Bosch get the blame??? Why did Bosch sell it to VW??
According to the report, Bosch claims to have supplied diesel engine-management software to Volkswagen under the impression that it would be used only in vehicle testing. That software, which was able to activate emissions-control devices when a testing environment was detected and deactivate them during normal driving, somehow ended up in production vehicles. According to Bild am Sonntag, Bosch wrote to Volkswagen in 2007 warning the automaker that using this software in publicly sold vehicles was illegal.
Why would one need a software to defeat emissions control only in vehicle testing ? It was supposed to defeat emissions control in normal driving . So why would it be only used in testing ? Sounds like double speak
Also the BHO administration has taken the politicialization of the EPA to loftier heights. So they were particularly harsh to South Korean OEMs to the tune of about $100 million. So if they're equally as harsh to VW, it shouldn't exceed that by too much. So $105M comes to mind. Much more than that and the theory doesn't hold water.
South Koreans misstated mpgs. VW sold cars here illegally. Big difference.
Some reports indicate it's in Europe where vehicle pollution controls are really politicized. The bureaucrats there are the in back pockets of VW and the other auto companies. Europe's rules are weak, and even the rules they have are not really enforced. It seems it's always been get along and go along, like it's a company town. No wonder air pollution is worse in Europe than in the US. Some in VW apparently had contempt for our laws and our pioneering pollution controls. And now they'll pay the price. Won't be $105 million or $18 billion, but probably more like $3 billion. As a result, I don't think VW or anyone else is going to try to fool CARB or EPA for quite a while. $105m would be a joke for a company that large, but $18 billion could threaten the company's financial health, and so somewhere at the lower end of in-between sounds about right. And our air quality will be better for it. If we left it to Europe we'd be choking in smog like Paris is now. It seems like we're about 15 years ahead of Europe in terms of limiting pollution from our vehicles.
Another group suing is "is investigating whether the "defeat devices" were developed at Volkswagen's Electronic Research Laboratory in Belmont, California. The 157,000 square feet lab represents the entire Volkswagen Group in applied research and development."
It would be ironic if the defeat hardware/software came from California. This says it was standard software provided by Bosch. Will Bosch get the blame??? Why did Bosch sell it to VW??....
Reading between the lines, it seems that VW asked for Bosch to write the defeat software for them. Bosch did that, which kept VW's programmers' fingerprints off of the actual code. Someone at Bosch got worried that they might try to use it in a production vehicle, and warned them that that would be illegal.
But it seems like Bosch knew, and yet decided not to blow the whistle on VW. Bosch was and is, I think, getting billions of Euros in biz from VW every year.
And VW was and is now one step removed from the writing of the computer code that helped constitute the violation of various laws.
Also the BHO administration has taken the politicialization of the EPA to loftier heights. So they were particularly harsh to South Korean OEMs to the tune of about $100 million. So if they're equally as harsh to VW, it shouldn't exceed that by too much. So $105M comes to mind. Much more than that and the theory doesn't hold water.
South Koreans misstated mpgs. VW sold cars here illegally. Big difference.
A strong case has not been made, other than I know that is what you believe.
The EPA has said that the effect of cars are safe to drive and are not illegal.
Also the BHO administration has taken the politicialization of the EPA to loftier heights. So they were particularly harsh to South Korean OEMs to the tune of about $100 million. So if they're equally as harsh to VW, it shouldn't exceed that by too much. So $105M comes to mind. Much more than that and the theory doesn't hold water.
South Koreans misstated mpgs. VW sold cars here illegally. Big difference.
A strong case has not been made, other than I know that is what you believe.
"Das Auto VOLKSWAGEN DIESEL INFORMATION HOME FAQS STATEMENTS CONTACT FAQs
Are the news reports of this “defeat device” true? Government regulations limit the use of engine software that reduces the effectiveness of a vehicle’s emissions control systems. Those are the “defeat device” regulations, and regrettably, VW violated those regulations. We take full responsibility – and deeply regret that this happened."
No, not at all. The taking of full responsibility is like Clintonest, BHO admin speak !Anybody that doesn't know how that works has the proverbial head in the sand.
Bosch is equally guilty. They devised the cheat software but "told" VW not to use it in production cars with a wink wink and a nod nod
What was the "need " to write an emissions defeating engine software ?
VW seemd to me much more guilty than Bosch, but probably Bosch should come in for a small share of blame as well.
It is difficult to see a legitimate reason why VW would ask Bosch to write this program. But perhaps in testing this new engine they thought they would eventually get around to creating a better emissions system, but then realized it was expensive, difficult, and had performance and mpg costs, and decided to take what they saw as the easy way out.
That "Hitler deals with the VW crisis" video that ruking1 posted a while ago was funny, but it might have been closer to the mark than we realized. H says he didn't think the stupid Americans would ever find out. Could be wrong, but it seems like maybe some German arrogance about perceptions of how smart Americans are, combined with contempt for our environmental laws, as well as excessive love for their diesels, has now gotten them in a world of difficulty.
What makes it more puzzling, as we know, is that software code is usually subject to quality control at several steps along the way. According to someone at another car company who worked in emissions, this would often involve lots of people sitting around looking at the code at the same time. And it needed to be updated and adjusted for each vehicle, and for each generation of engine. This seems like it would have meant some more or less steady VW approval and involvement, even if they were trying to pass most of the dirty work to Bosch.
When VW vehicles needed to be certified for EPA and CARB each year, apparently there was a team from Wolfsburg that mostly did this. They didn't trust their American counterparts, apparently fearing the "stupid Americans" would blow their cover. Now those Americans are looking a lot smarter than their German counterparts.
It's astonishing still that this could be allowed to go on for 7 years....
It's amazing EPA and CARB didn't catch it until now, but it's even more amazing that VW would have such a corporate brain glitch of this magnitude. Something was seriously wrong with its corporate culture.
Apparently in 2011 a VW engineer tried to raise a red alert, but he was ignored.
In my imagination others who raised red flags were warned, and if they didn't shut up they ended up in VW's Brazil operations, unemployed, or maybe just transferred to another dept.
No, and I say it again that EPA/CARB were asleep at the wheels for @ least the 7 years cited. Indeed there are lots wrong with EPA & CARB cultures. I have gone on record saying that VW did a huge brain fart. So if EPA/CARB were asleep @ the controls while VW was passing, did you really expect VW to wake them as they were passing through?
Also the BHO administration has taken the politicialization of the EPA to loftier heights. So they were particularly harsh to South Korean OEMs to the tune of about $100 million. So if they're equally as harsh to VW, it shouldn't exceed that by too much. So $105M comes to mind. Much more than that and the theory doesn't hold water.
South Koreans misstated mpgs. VW sold cars here illegally. Big difference.
A strong case has not been made, other than I know that is what you believe.
The EPA has said that the effect of cars are safe to drive and are not illegal.
"A strong case has not been made" -- Really? Seriously? I have to admire your .... something. Not sure what, but something.
"cars are safe to drive and are not illegal" -- Not illegal? Really? Wow! Just, wow!
Do you miss my posts ? Or anyone else's for that matter? EPA/CARB doesn't even have a plan in hand . Money's at various levels aren't even defined, let alone agreed on. Most factual information is sketchy @ best.
Just this weekend on the road. No dealer recall letter. No cease-and-desist order.. City,County,State, Fed did not slap the cuffs on this thing! Loads of opinion articles! Pretty close to zero real information! hello!
Upper management at VW being so open and transparent makes me wonder if they are not just being proactive. Admit, get forgiveness and go forward. No Japanese style cover-up. Then sort it all out without the pressure. VW bought the systems from Bosch, ran the emissions tests and were off to the races. I would imagine Bosch said something to someone about the device. But WHY was it in there from the start as Bosch admits?
What interests me about Bosch. It is the largest auto parts company in the World. And it is 92% owned by the Robert Bosch Foundation. All profits go to Humanitarian causes. Great way to avoid taxes.
EPA NOx standards for tailpipe emission over the years. One way US standards are stricter than European standards is that they tend to be "fuel neutral," meaning that gas and diesel light vehicles usually need to meet the same standards....
1975: 3.1 NOx gpm
1977: 2
1981: 1.2
1994: .6
2001: .3
2009: .07
For comparison, European standards (which are less rigorously tested and enforced) in 2014 were at .29, which is roughly where US standards were in 2001.
In the US, these standards need to be met for the "useful life of the light vehicle," which was originally defined as 10 years and 120,000 miles, but going forward CARB and then the EPA will require 15 years/150k.
The EPA a few years ago set Tier 3 standards, which are slowly phased in starting in 2017, and fully phased in by 2025, by which time there will be a c. 70% reduction from current per vehicle pollution emissions.
The good news is that our air will be less smoggy in the future, with significant improvements likely for the next several decades as the fleet slowly changes over to lower emission vehicles.
But it seems like it will be challenging for light diesels to meet these standards, although I don't really know about that. BMW and MB diesel engines seem to meet the current standards.
"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is finalizing an important rule designed to reduce air pollution from passenger cars and trucks. Starting in 2017, Tier 3 sets new vehicle emissions standards and lowers the sulfur content of gasoline, considering the vehicle and its fuel as an integrated system. The vehicle standards reduce both tailpipe and evaporative emissions from passenger cars, light-duty trucks, medium-duty passenger vehicles, and some heavyduty vehicles. The gasoline sulfur standard will make emission control systems more effective for both existing and new vehicles, and will enable more stringent vehicle emissions standards since removing sulfur allows the vehicle’s catalyst to work more efficiently. The Tier 3 standards are closely coordinated with California’s LEV III standards as well as with EPA’s and California’s programs for greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions from light-duty vehicles. EPA is setting these Tier 3 standards to address public health issues that exist currently and are projected to continue in the future....
EPA is setting new tailpipe standards for the sum of non-methane organic gases (NMOG) and nitrogen oxides (NOX), presented as NMOG+NOX, and for particular matter (PM) that apply to all light-duty vehicles and some heavy-duty vehicles. Compared to current standards, the NMOG and NOX tailpipe standards for light-duty vehicles represent approximately an 80% reduction from today’s fleet average and a 70% reduction in per-vehicle PM standards...."
"THE VW DIESEL CRISIS German prosecutors backtrack on Winterkorn's role in VW probe
October 1, 2015 - 4:44 am ET GENEVA (Bloomberg) -- German prosecutors were forced into a U-turn in their investigation of former Volkswagen CEO Martin Winterkorn after they may have been too quick to name the executive as the focus of their probe amid a review of the diesel emissions scandal at the automaker.
In a fresh statement today, the Lower Saxony prosecutor's office said that there must be "concrete facts" before a probe into Winterkorn is opened as they investigate accusations of fraud at the automaker. They removed a statement from earlier in the week.
The apparent slip-up shows the pressure German prosecutors are under to get to the bottom of who ultimately ordered the creation of software that allowed some Volkswagen Group diesel cars to cheat U.S. emissions testers for years...."
Winterkorn should have known, but actually I think it's possible he didn't. To use a not very close political parallel, it might be a little like Iran-Contra. Oliver North and others felt they were ultimately doing what President Reagan wanted, but the President was kept in the dark about things that were happening that were against the law. Similarly, I think there's a chance this was a pretty tight-knit conspiracy within VW, especially if they were able to get Bosch to do most of their programming dirty work for them.
But Winterkorn, who as an engineer who was legendary for sweating the details, should have asked: how is it that BMW and MB must use AdBlue to meet CARB's standards starting in 2008, while we don't? Probably he did ask that question, and his fellow executives and engineers lied to him. And some of them probably didn't realize they were lying, having been lied to by those lower down. In any case, Winterkorn didn't sweat the details on this one, just believing the too-good-to be-true, as everyone from the New York Times to the EPA did as well.
But my guess is that the lower-down engineers on the front lines of VW's emissions defeat software didn't dream this up all on their own. Someone with authority approved of it at some point. But that someone was probably careful to keep his "plausible deniability." There may be no email trail or other hard evidence pointing to the executive who likely started the chain of events that has brought this crisis onto VW.
"Europe’s Auto Makers Keep Test Firms Close Watchdogs say commercial ties offer too much room for influencing results
By JASON CHOW in Paris, RUTH BENDER in Berlin and DAVID GAUTHIER-VILLARS in Stockholm Sept. 30, 2015 5:21 p.m. ET
The scramble to tighten rules on emissions tests following Volkswagen AG’s diesel-engine scandal is laying bare a system in which car makers pay the very firms that test and certify their vehicles.
That system relies on the use of so-called “golden vehicles,” stripped down prototypes that car makers send to testing firms for inspection. The practice, which officials for car makers and testing firms say is widespread, allows car models to undergo tests before they are fitted with everything from back seats to wheels with heavier tread, boosting fuel efficiency and lowering emissions.
“It’s like preparing for a major race. We tune them and pamper them like stud horses,” said an executive from one of Europe’s leading auto makers, adding that car companies never submitted random vehicles drawn from the assembly lines for testing.
The relationship between car makers and testing firms raises questions about how closely manufacturers can work with the companies without influencing test results. On Wednesday, the French government announced plans to test 100 vehicles drawn directly from car owners and rental agencies.
Executives from the auto industry and the testing firms say the use of golden vehicles and other practices don’t amount to cheating, because they aren’t banned by European rules....
Golden vehicles are often deprived of standard equipment, such as air bags and air conditioning units, according to testing officials.
One particular area of attention in the tests is car tires. Vehicles used in tests are fitted with special tires that don’t last long on real road but provide ultralow resistance during lab tests.
The test vehicles and measures used in labs can help lower exhaust emissions by between 20% and 35% over standard road-equipped vehicles, the executive for the major European car maker said.
“All car makers without exception optimize their cars,” said the official from a German testing firm.
The above post is a PC Version of what I was saying about it being the tip of the huge, huge,huge iceberg. 97% plus of the passenger vehicles are GASSERs. It is a no brainer/easy to conclude that the side that has the most to lose are the ... gassers. Mpg has always been an issue.
The average mpg is preciously little better, than @ the start of it being a priority, say 30 years ago. There is still a long way to go to the so called 54.5 miles per gallon standard. In fact, no one in their right minds truly expects a V8 Ford 150 to post much closer than the 16 mpg it is probably posting NOW. Indeed the down sized V6 is having issues. It is really hard for Toyota Pious owners to acknowledge that the real purpose for Toyota Prius is so Toyota can sell HUGE trucks that get between 14 and 16 mpg,and @ HUGE volumes!
In fact it is so out-of-control/corrupt that given the 2004 Prius debacle, ( could not meet the 60 mpg city/50 mpg highway,) that they change the EPA test to make it easier for them to hit those MPG's. Even with the test been doctored, it took several redesigns, years later and they still couldn't meet their own standards.
So I think this diesel vilification is merely the latest environmentalist attempt to get the attention off the fake environmental narratives, ad nauseum. That some how we are far better off consuming electrical energy less than the North Koreans. That somehow we're going to hit 54.5 MPG. That miraculously, gassers do not emit N0x and is a statistically killer emission. This is not to mention cutting back on foreign oil. In fact, our local Chevron refinery lost to the environmentalist's trying to precisely do that, get off foreign oil. Instead the ruling made Chevron continue to import foreign oil!?
Talking heads on CNBC are saying that 2015 yearly projected auto car sales could possibly top 18 million. They say it's a better & banner year since easily 2005. But the Yogi Berra principle applies here . It ain't over till it's over.
I am sad in a way in the sense that nobody is offering to sell me their TDI's for a song or less! ?
Other than that it's a real SLOW TDI day! I have everything rotating on a battery trickle charger schedule. Every oneis getting back to 100% charge fairly easy and fast.
A reporter is looking to interview a car shopper who had been looking to buy a diesel car but decided against it, and either chose something else or is still shopping for for a non-diesel.
Please email a few lines about your decision to PR@edmunds.com before October 2, 2015.
Bosch is equally guilty. They devised the cheat software but "told" VW not to use it in production cars with a wink wink and a nod nod
What was the "need " to write an emissions defeating engine software ?
Back in 2007? Likely the need was to gauge the impact of various solutions to meeting emissions standards, and being able to compare those to pre "clean diesel" standards, on the same engine, in the same test vehicle, under the same conditions. Basically, with the software, the testers could literally flip a switch to have one scenario versus another.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Comments
For larger, more expensive vehicles, hiding the extra kit involved in SCR is easier, both in terms of packaging and price. But on smaller cars like the Volkswagen Golf and Jetta, SCR is less than ideal. There’s not a lot of room to put the urea tank, pump, and other equipment, and price-conscious consumers may balk at the added expense, which costs the manufacturer about $50 more for a 2.0-liter engine than the alternative, according to a study by ICCT. That equates to a cost savings of over $500 million over 11 million cars.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/volkswagen-diesel-emissions/
What was it GM saved by not fixing their killer ignition switch?
Colorado Congresswoman Diana DeGette cited a 2005 GM document that she said showed a cost of 57 cents per fix.
If the people with smog producing VWs think they can extort large sums from VW, look at history.
Lawyers hired to compensate victims of General Motors' faulty ignition switches have finished determining which claims are eligible, rejecting 91% of them.
The compensation fund led by lawyer Kenneth Feinberg approved 399 of the 4,343 claims filed and rejected 3,944.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/08/24/gm-ignition-switch-fund/32282521/
So all that chicken little stuff to be able to reject 91% of claims. To chose to pay only 399 claims, or 9.2%. ? The lawyers pocket the majority of the penalties and fees ? I am totally in the wrong profession.
So let me get this correct, the wolves are in charge of the hen houses? Aka, the inmates are running the asylum ?
Geez like I have said, you can't even make this stuff up.
He said a crime was committed? What crime was that? What real proof (burden of evidence) indicates mine is a criminal?
CARB has said @ least 4x's mine passes with flying colors. They won't even test my now suspect one!! The very same people that wants to make sure I have justice, want to make MY (the) car runs like crap, with zero proof.
CARB in pursuing its anti diesel agenda, wants to do a mini eminent domain, if I do not do their crappy fix.
So the lawyers will probably make more fees than the actual cost of the crappy fix. What incentive do I have ?
If anything, I should sue CARB and EPA, and hope the lawyers drive GM cars with faulty ignitions.!
Another band aid fix for diesel school buses has been announced by the EPA. (news10.com) No estimate of the number of kids killed by the emissions was offered in the story.
Volkswagen's diesel tax breaks could be a focus for U.S. prosecutors (Reuters - spoiler, it's all Bush's fault.
And no one has commented on the printed hate notes that have been left on a few Portland TDIs? (oregonlive.com)
Bankruptcy à la Chrysler and GM looks more appealing, the longer this drags on. Maybe VW will have a bank of lawyers that can reject 91% of the claims!
Two firms just filed in New Mexico, for example, representing eight owners. (santafenewmexican.com) My guess is that there's at least 100 named owners at this point.
And in addition to owners complaining about "fraud" and loss of value of their cars, the stockholders are suing as well. And it's not just limited to the US; there's links about class actions in Canada, Israel and Italy.
Some young lawyers may be working on this mess the rest of their careers.
As an example, let's say a manufacturer offers a limited slip differential option for their vehicle and it costs the consumer $500 extra. The automaker might only be paying $50 for the standard, open differential but it costs them $400 to buy the limited slip unit in quantity. When they're already building a transaxle or rear axle assembly it doesn't cost them any more money to install one or the other. There's some engineering, testing and development costs, but the automaker can afford to sell you an upgrade from the factory for that $500 and maybe make a very small profit.
Let's say the consumer decided to buy a car that didn't have the limited slip option but wanted to add that feature to their car. Because the automaker bought a massive amount of them in bulk from their supplier we'll say they negotiated a $400 per unit price, but if you as a consumer went to JTEKT (Torsen), Eaton or Quaife their wholesale cost in smaller quantities might be $600-800 per unit. We'll assume you could buy at that price and not retail markup, you then have to buy an installation kit with new shims, bearings, gaskets, fluid, etc. and you also have to pay to remove the old and install the new differential into the transaxle or axle assembly at $100 per hour that your dealer charges. This could easily turn out to be $1200-1500 or more and end up being a grand more expensive than just ordering the car with the option.
Same principle for adding urea/DEF injection. If they just added the tank, pump, lines, injector and designed it into the SCR system and installed it in place of the current emission components (that don't meet standards), it might have only cost VW a few hundred dollars more. But now they would need to source a batch of parts, possibly replace other components already on the car (such as maybe a different/new lean NOx trap/catalyst assembly with a urea injection port), pay dealer labor rates (at the lower warranty reimbursement amounts instead of retail labor prices, but it could still be many hours per car), plus VW has the expense to completely redevelop the engine management programming (i.e. software tune/calibration), durability testing and engineering costs, re-certification, testing costs and so on.
If they would have integrated the hardware from the start before they did all the testing, certification, etc. it might have "only" cost the few hundred dollars quoted. Now it would likely cost way more to reengineer the car to add that feature. Before calling out VW for not wanting to spend what seems like a small amount, remember that the profit margin on small cars is pretty tight and automakers look for any way possible to save pennies and dollars. If you went to the program manager and said, hey, we could save multiple hundred dollars per car by not integrating urea/DEF injection and we can sort-of get the car to appear to pass compliance testing it would be a calculated risk but would be a tough business decision to pass up.
Of course, if they can do it with software, the costs are way lower. We'll see.
So suppose the US EPA/CARB were able to levy a $37,500 fine per TDI unit, 500,000 units @ issue) ./ = 62.5 years of profit. That means it will be cheaper for VW to go away for more than two generations, than come to some kind of agreement, aka $ 600 per unit and UNDER. What does this mean in real English? Far less than $ 300 M.
So here are five political ramifications:
1. Wipe out investment of the state of Lower Saxony, it's kind a like the California economy being totally bankrupt.
2. Wipe out the equivalent of the UAW in Germany, as German auto unions own a pretty large minority chunk of VW and in their pensions
3. Decimate the German auto sector.
4. Destabilize the German economy, already in a recession bordering on depression (actually it is in a depression, masquerading as a recession )
5. Get zero of a lot of dollars ($37,500) versus almost all of the dollars of $600.
So does anybody really care if we get the sacrificial Gertrude's,Hans's, Frantz's, Alda's, Bertha's Dieter's, Luanna's,Wolfgang's?
Does anyone on this board think that it will NOT send shockwaves through our logistical food chain ?
This is the firm for which I saw a banner ad Gotta love em
There are no class action lawsuits in Europe.
Americans are making a mountain out of mole hill.
American ambulance chasing lawyers are salivating at that thought of billions in payout but its not going to happen. Ask Boeing aircraft company who will lose all its German orders for 777 and 787
But I've already posted the article about why VW will not get sued by the rest of the world. .
Agreed
You cannot destroys another country's top automotive sector because you want a clean air in California which is already worst polluted by the number of forest fires every year.
I will wager, nothing will happen except a token fine of 600$ per every TDI sold.
The crashed Malaysian 777 Boeing cost roughly 320 M.
The Boeing 787–9 is 250 million. Airlines never repay MSRP. It is reputed to cost roughly $117 million. The cost to build this Boeing plane is actually $160 million. It will be a loss leader until they sell 1900 planes.
Want to crush another set of unions ? It is pretty simple to do ! Lose the contract selling Boeing planes to Germany. (To any other part of the world, for that matter) All Merkel has to say to little Stevie Urkle (BHO admin): given the $300 million in fines that VW may be forced to pay, we now can't afford 1 ,2, 3 Boeing airplanes !
It is an extremely easy case to make that buying European Airbus's makes more far more sense to buy for a European country.
Game,Set, Match?
Italian consumers group presents Volkswagen class action case (Reuters)
Israel has a form of them (globes.co.il) and here's one of several that have been filed in Canada. (kelownanow.com) Here's one gearing up in the UK. (globallegalpost.com)
Another group suing is "is investigating whether the "defeat devices" were developed at Volkswagen's Electronic Research Laboratory in Belmont, California. The 157,000 square feet lab represents the entire Volkswagen Group in applied research and development." (nbcbayarea.com)
DOD's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
( for those newer to the site: self driving, self navigating vehicles)
LOL !!!?... I know nut ting!
"Shame and Degradation in Wolfsburg: The Fallout from the VW Diesel Scandal
September 30, 2015 at 5:01 pm by Jens Meiners
Has an automaker ever been knocked off its axis quite so dramatically as has happened with Volkswagen in the wake of it being caught cheating on diesel-engine emissions? The company has had its head lopped off in a single strike. And by that, we don’t just mean Martin Winterkorn, who stepped down just days after a humiliating apology in which he conceded the company’s deliberate wrongdoing while trying to dispel the assumption that he knew exactly what was going on.
While we continue to wait for the full facts about who did what, it appears that a faction within VW thought they could cheat their way to passing U.S. emissions tests with engine-management software that altered emissions during the test cycle. Who came up with the idea, who approved it, and who implemented it remains to be seen. We expect this information to be revealed soon, and the implications for those involved likely will be harsh.
The apparent disregard for the American consumer sheds a bright light on VW’s inability to understand the world’s biggest market, one in which their share is a fraction of their major competitors....
One thing is certain: VW can’t and won’t write off the U.S. and other North American markets; the company’s recent investment in production sites and new product in the region is vast and has yet to pay off. All eyes are now on North America, and one sign is putting heavyweight Winfried Vahland in charge of VW’s newly created North American Region (NAR). The role also secures him a seat on the VW brand’s board. (VW USA CEO Michael Horn will stay in his current role; after it had initially leaked that the supervisory board was looking to sack him, the American dealer body weighed in with a strong vote of confidence.)
Given its position at the center of the crisis, and its importance in terms of the bottom line, VW North America will gain more clout in Wolfsburg....
We spoke to company and industry insiders to get further insights. Here are a few observations:
*Communications are being extremely tightly controlled by headquarters; even the usually vocal dealers are reluctant to comment, and the sub-brands—including Audi, some of whose vehicles are also caught in the scandal—are keeping a low profile.
*The conspiracy theories that amount to the assertion that the EPA wants to hurt a German brand are baloney. The EPA is similarly harsh with American and Japanese carmakers, but it’s true that when the EPA puts its boot on a company’s throat, it won’t let off. VW has grossly underestimated the EPA’s power and inexplicably failed to go public before the story broke, despite having ample warning.
*The involved executives need to be prepared for a legal backlash that could affect them personally and financially...."
http://blog.caranddriver.com/shame-and-degradation-in-wolfsburg-the-fallout-from-the-vw-diesel-scandal/
It would be ironic if the defeat hardware/software came from California. This says it was standard software provided by Bosch. Will Bosch get the blame??? Why did Bosch sell it to VW??
According to the report, Bosch claims to have supplied diesel engine-management software to Volkswagen under the impression that it would be used only in vehicle testing. That software, which was able to activate emissions-control devices when a testing environment was detected and deactivate them during normal driving, somehow ended up in production vehicles. According to Bild am Sonntag, Bosch wrote to Volkswagen in 2007 warning the automaker that using this software in publicly sold vehicles was illegal.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/report-bosch-warned-vw-about-diesel-emissions-cheating-in-2007/
But it seems like Bosch knew, and yet decided not to blow the whistle on VW. Bosch was and is, I think, getting billions of Euros in biz from VW every year.
And VW was and is now one step removed from the writing of the computer code that helped constitute the violation of various laws.
The EPA has said that the effect of cars are safe to drive and are not illegal.
http://www.vwdieselinfo.com/faqs/
"Das Auto
VOLKSWAGEN DIESEL INFORMATION
HOME FAQS STATEMENTS CONTACT
FAQs
Are the news reports of this “defeat device” true?
Government regulations limit the use of engine software that reduces the effectiveness of a vehicle’s emissions control systems. Those are the “defeat device” regulations, and regrettably, VW violated those regulations. We take full responsibility – and deeply regret that this happened."
What was the "need " to write an emissions defeating engine software ?
It is difficult to see a legitimate reason why VW would ask Bosch to write this program. But perhaps in testing this new engine they thought they would eventually get around to creating a better emissions system, but then realized it was expensive, difficult, and had performance and mpg costs, and decided to take what they saw as the easy way out.
That "Hitler deals with the VW crisis" video that ruking1 posted a while ago was funny, but it might have been closer to the mark than we realized. H says he didn't think the stupid Americans would ever find out. Could be wrong, but it seems like maybe some German arrogance about perceptions of how smart Americans are, combined with contempt for our environmental laws, as well as excessive love for their diesels, has now gotten them in a world of difficulty.
What makes it more puzzling, as we know, is that software code is usually subject to quality control at several steps along the way. According to someone at another car company who worked in emissions, this would often involve lots of people sitting around looking at the code at the same time. And it needed to be updated and adjusted for each vehicle, and for each generation of engine. This seems like it would have meant some more or less steady VW approval and involvement, even if they were trying to pass most of the dirty work to Bosch.
When VW vehicles needed to be certified for EPA and CARB each year, apparently there was a team from Wolfsburg that mostly did this. They didn't trust their American counterparts, apparently fearing the "stupid Americans" would blow their cover. Now those Americans are looking a lot smarter than their German counterparts.
It's astonishing still that this could be allowed to go on for 7 years....
It's amazing EPA and CARB didn't catch it until now, but it's even more amazing that VW would have such a corporate brain glitch of this magnitude. Something was seriously wrong with its corporate culture.
Apparently in 2011 a VW engineer tried to raise a red alert, but he was ignored.
In my imagination others who raised red flags were warned, and if they didn't shut up they ended up in VW's Brazil operations, unemployed, or maybe just transferred to another dept.
"cars are safe to drive and are not illegal" -- Not illegal? Really? Wow! Just, wow!
Just this weekend on the road. No dealer recall letter. No cease-and-desist order.. City,County,State, Fed did not slap the cuffs on this thing! Loads of opinion articles! Pretty close to zero real information! hello!
What interests me about Bosch. It is the largest auto parts company in the World. And it is 92% owned by the Robert Bosch Foundation. All profits go to Humanitarian causes. Great way to avoid taxes.
Then again, I'm a big fan of Hershey and the main stockholders are the "orphans".
Probably TMI, but the HPFP is vendored by Robert Bosch.
1975: 3.1 NOx gpm
1977: 2
1981: 1.2
1994: .6
2001: .3
2009: .07
For comparison, European standards (which are less rigorously tested and enforced) in 2014 were at .29, which is roughly where US standards were in 2001.
In the US, these standards need to be met for the "useful life of the light vehicle," which was originally defined as 10 years and 120,000 miles, but going forward CARB and then the EPA will require 15 years/150k.
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/
The good news is that our air will be less smoggy in the future, with significant improvements likely for the next several decades as the fleet slowly changes over to lower emission vehicles.
But it seems like it will be challenging for light diesels to meet these standards, although I don't really know about that. BMW and MB diesel engines seem to meet the current standards.
"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is finalizing an
important rule designed to reduce air pollution from passenger
cars and trucks. Starting in 2017, Tier 3 sets new vehicle emissions
standards and lowers the sulfur content of gasoline, considering the
vehicle and its fuel as an integrated system. The vehicle standards
reduce both tailpipe and evaporative emissions from passenger cars,
light-duty trucks, medium-duty passenger vehicles, and some heavyduty
vehicles. The gasoline sulfur standard will make emission control
systems more effective for both existing and new vehicles, and will
enable more stringent vehicle emissions standards since removing
sulfur allows the vehicle’s catalyst to work more efficiently. The Tier
3 standards are closely coordinated with California’s LEV III standards
as well as with EPA’s and California’s programs for greenhouse
gas (GHG) emissions from light-duty vehicles. EPA is setting these
Tier 3 standards to address public health issues that exist currently
and are projected to continue in the future....
EPA is setting new tailpipe standards for the sum of non-methane organic gases (NMOG) and
nitrogen oxides (NOX), presented as NMOG+NOX, and for particular matter (PM) that apply
to all light-duty vehicles and some heavy-duty vehicles. Compared to current standards, the
NMOG and NOX tailpipe standards for light-duty vehicles represent approximately an 80%
reduction from today’s fleet average and a 70% reduction in per-vehicle PM standards...."
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/documents/tier3/420f14008.pdf
"THE VW DIESEL CRISIS
German prosecutors backtrack on Winterkorn's role in VW probe
October 1, 2015 - 4:44 am ET
GENEVA (Bloomberg) -- German prosecutors were forced into a U-turn in their investigation of former Volkswagen CEO Martin Winterkorn after they may have been too quick to name the executive as the focus of their probe amid a review of the diesel emissions scandal at the automaker.
In a fresh statement today, the Lower Saxony prosecutor's office said that there must be "concrete facts" before a probe into Winterkorn is opened as they investigate accusations of fraud at the automaker. They removed a statement from earlier in the week.
The apparent slip-up shows the pressure German prosecutors are under to get to the bottom of who ultimately ordered the creation of software that allowed some Volkswagen Group diesel cars to cheat U.S. emissions testers for years...."
http://www.autonews.com/article/20151001/COPY01/310019972/german-prosecutors-backtrack-on-winterkorns-role-in-vw-probe
But Winterkorn, who as an engineer who was legendary for sweating the details, should have asked: how is it that BMW and MB must use AdBlue to meet CARB's standards starting in 2008, while we don't? Probably he did ask that question, and his fellow executives and engineers lied to him. And some of them probably didn't realize they were lying, having been lied to by those lower down. In any case, Winterkorn didn't sweat the details on this one, just believing the too-good-to be-true, as everyone from the New York Times to the EPA did as well.
But my guess is that the lower-down engineers on the front lines of VW's emissions defeat software didn't dream this up all on their own. Someone with authority approved of it at some point. But that someone was probably careful to keep his "plausible deniability." There may be no email trail or other hard evidence pointing to the executive who likely started the chain of events that has brought this crisis onto VW.
"Europe’s Auto Makers Keep Test Firms Close
Watchdogs say commercial ties offer too much room for influencing results
By JASON CHOW in Paris, RUTH BENDER in Berlin and DAVID GAUTHIER-VILLARS in Stockholm
Sept. 30, 2015 5:21 p.m. ET
The scramble to tighten rules on emissions tests following Volkswagen AG’s diesel-engine scandal is laying bare a system in which car makers pay the very firms that test and certify their vehicles.
That system relies on the use of so-called “golden vehicles,” stripped down prototypes that car makers send to testing firms for inspection. The practice, which officials for car makers and testing firms say is widespread, allows car models to undergo tests before they are fitted with everything from back seats to wheels with heavier tread, boosting fuel efficiency and lowering emissions.
“It’s like preparing for a major race. We tune them and pamper them like stud horses,” said an executive from one of Europe’s leading auto makers, adding that car companies never submitted random vehicles drawn from the assembly lines for testing.
The relationship between car makers and testing firms raises questions about how closely manufacturers can work with the companies without influencing test results. On Wednesday, the French government announced plans to test 100 vehicles drawn directly from car owners and rental agencies.
Executives from the auto industry and the testing firms say the use of golden vehicles and other practices don’t amount to cheating, because they aren’t banned by European rules....
Golden vehicles are often deprived of standard equipment, such as air bags and air conditioning units, according to testing officials.
One particular area of attention in the tests is car tires. Vehicles used in tests are fitted with special tires that don’t last long on real road but provide ultralow resistance during lab tests.
The test vehicles and measures used in labs can help lower exhaust emissions by between 20% and 35% over standard road-equipped vehicles, the executive for the major European car maker said.
“All car makers without exception optimize their cars,” said the official from a German testing firm.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-auto-makers-keep-test-firms-close-1443648097
The average mpg is preciously little better, than @ the start of it being a priority, say 30 years ago. There is still a long way to go to the so called 54.5 miles per gallon standard. In fact, no one in their right minds truly expects a V8 Ford 150 to post much closer than the 16 mpg it is probably posting NOW. Indeed the down sized V6 is having issues. It is really hard for Toyota Pious owners to acknowledge that the real purpose for Toyota Prius is so Toyota can sell HUGE trucks that get between 14 and 16 mpg,and @ HUGE volumes!
In fact it is so out-of-control/corrupt that given the 2004 Prius debacle, ( could not meet the 60 mpg city/50 mpg highway,) that they change the EPA test to make it easier for them to hit those MPG's. Even with the test been doctored, it took several redesigns, years later and they still couldn't meet their own standards.
So I think this diesel vilification is merely the latest environmentalist attempt to get the attention off the fake environmental narratives, ad nauseum. That some how we are far better off consuming electrical energy less than the North Koreans. That somehow we're going to hit 54.5 MPG. That miraculously, gassers do not emit N0x and is a statistically killer emission. This is not to mention cutting back on foreign oil. In fact, our local Chevron refinery lost to the environmentalist's trying to precisely do that, get off foreign oil. Instead the ruling made Chevron continue to import foreign oil!?
Talking heads on CNBC are saying that 2015 yearly projected auto car sales could possibly top 18 million. They say it's a better & banner year since easily 2005. But the Yogi Berra principle applies here . It ain't over till it's over.
I am sad in a way in the sense that nobody is offering to sell me their TDI's for a song or less! ?
Other than that it's a real SLOW TDI day! I have everything rotating on a battery trickle charger schedule. Every oneis getting back to 100% charge fairly easy and fast.
Please email a few lines about your decision to PR@edmunds.com before October 2, 2015.