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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Sounds like good PR to me, especially in a factory town. Just from my visits there, you sure notice a lot of new VWs running around, especially the Passats made there. Lots of employee discount cars I'm sure. No idea on real numbers though.

    One for @gagrice - Volkswagen Stock Chart Is Looking Like BP's After Oil Spill (Bloomberg)

    Ah, but VLKAY is up over $3 from what I paid last week. I could sell today and make enough profit for diesel to make two round trips to Oregon.

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=vlkay
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    stever said:

    Y'all are assuming that solar won't get more efficient and smaller. The 21 panels that my house would require today could be 15 in a year or three. Our off-grid friends manage with 6 panels but they don't need AC.

    No not @ all! But I do question why putting up 6 to 21 4x4 panels need a EIR or whatever it is now called.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Just need a building permit and an electrial inspection here.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    LA Times tweet - "EPA's Grundler said future emissions tests will be unpredictable so they can't be gamed."
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Renewables have already passed hydro? That's encouraging.

    I don't get this WSJ story.

    "Volkswagen AG conceded it won’t be able sell diesel-powered vehicles in the U.S. for a prolonged period, withdrawing a request for regulators to certify new models in the wake of an emissions-cheating scandal."

    This story doesn't talk about which diesels won't be certified and sold - are they really talking about all of them?

    That means only a fool would sell the VW TDI. They should bring a big premium on the used market. VW guarantees a fix. It will be like the days when you could sell a used VW TDI in CA for more than they sold for new. Wish I had a couple of them. Right now may be the time to strike while the low information owners are in a panic. Buy low, Sell HIGH has always been my motto.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    gagrice said:

    stever said:

    Sounds like good PR to me, especially in a factory town. Just from my visits there, you sure notice a lot of new VWs running around, especially the Passats made there. Lots of employee discount cars I'm sure. No idea on real numbers though.

    One for @gagrice - Volkswagen Stock Chart Is Looking Like BP's After Oil Spill (Bloomberg)

    Ah, but VLKAY is up over $3 from what I paid last week. I could sell today and make enough profit for diesel to make two round trips to Oregon.

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=vlkay
    Life is good!

    Yes, however most folks and most folks who follow this board would either disagree or do not see it!

    For me, getting a warranty (tbd terms)@100,000 miles 2009 VW TDI , can only add to resale value. VW corporate will have skin in the game, keeping owners like me happy : instead of joining one of many lawsuits against them. Or going to another OEM.

    They have already done that with:
    1. DSG warranty extension to 100,000 miles
    2. HPFP fix outside of warranty
    3. battery replacement,
    4. IRS tax CREDIT in 2009
    5. bulb replacement
    6. Tbd, N0x fix.

    I would further swag that in addition to offering a $2000 loyalty incentive now, that when I go to buy another , they will then again offer ANOTHER $2,000 loyalty incentive.

    If by the time, I am dissatisfied with VW: I can use that $2,000 incentive to negotiate a better deal, on say Mercedes or BMW.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Anyone with an interest in climate change should watch a portion of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting held today where Sierra Club President Aaron Mair was testifying. Video on Breitbart.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    houdini1 said:

    Anyone with an interest in climate change should watch a portion of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting held today where Sierra Club President Aaron Mair was testifying. Video on Breitbart.


    This is too funny! Even a top EPA official is criticizing the...EPA !

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/the-latest-epa-official-says-agency-wishes-vw-caught-sooner/

    The other exploding bomb shell in the article (if indeed true ) will be the EPA's unpredictability testing protocols. This is pure code for SOS/DD.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    ruking1 said:

    houdini1 said:

    Anyone with an interest in climate change should watch a portion of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee meeting held today where Sierra Club President Aaron Mair was testifying. Video on Breitbart.


    This is too funny! Even a top EPA official is criticizing the...EPA !

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/the-latest-epa-official-says-agency-wishes-vw-caught-sooner/

    The other exploding bomb shell in the article (if indeed true ) will be the EPA's unpredictability testing protocols. This is pure code for SOS/DD.
    Thanks for posting that link. You can also view the exchange between Senator Ted Cruz and Sierra Club President Aaron Mair there.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    "According to Edmunds:

    —More than half of VW diesel trade-ins (51.2 percent) went to a brand other than Volkswagen.

    —The loyalty rate is higher for VW diesels than for overall VW trade-ins, in which only 39 percent went toward another VW.

    —Those VW diesel trade-ins that defected to another brand were most likely to go toward popular Japanese makes such as Toyota, Honda and Subaru.

    —Forty percent of VW diesel trade-ins went toward another diesel of any make, while 57 percent of VW diesel trade-ins went toward a gasoline vehicle of any make."

    CEO, Edmunds, White House react to VW emissions debacle (nooga.com)
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    EPA says that the existing car owners can still drive their TDI as they are "safe" .
    Then why is VW persecuted for cheating on emissions if the existing TDI are safe to drive for another two years till they are "fixed" ??

    Is EPA/CARB being a hypocrite ?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,697
    edited October 2015
    carboy21 said:

    EPA says that the existing car owners can still drive their TDI as they are "safe" .
    Then why is VW persecuted for cheating on emissions if the existing TDI are safe to drive for another two years till they are "fixed" ??

    Is EPA/CARB being a hypocrite ?

    The answer to that is pretty straightforward: Cheating is illegal.

    So, I think I am not going out on a limb to say that most vehicles "pollute" more than their emissions certification would suggest. The EPA is okay with this, as long as the lab testing of the vehicle's emissions are under the same parameters (vehicle-based, not environmental) as "real world" driving. Since VW changed those parameters under the differing conditions, they're under the gun. And, since they did it on their "clean diesel" vehicles, they're doubly under the gun (e.g., involves other issues like gov't incentive programs). And, since "everyone" loves to hate diesels, they're triply under the gun!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Essentially I've been saying these very things all along. They say ONLY diesels are doing it. It is basically endemic to the WHOLE industry, mostly 97% GASSERS!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I cannot believe how stupid some of our elected officials are. Why don't they measure the NOx in the air we breathe and compare with the air records from 2008. See if there was a significant increase in NOx. I can guarantee there are a lot worse health problems in this country. We have cleaner air than most of the world.

    New York Democrat Yvette Clarke told EPA official Christopher Grundler, who also testified, that she was concerned about where the cars might be creating the most pollution.

    She asked for a list of states that might be impacted the most because she wants to know if spikes in health care problems could be connected to the extra emissions.


    CA does not even test all the diesels older than 1998. How many 100s of 1000s of old diesel PU trucks have NO smog devices on them?

    Diesel Smog Check in California

    Diesel Smog Check - Since 2010 California has required all diesel trucks and diesel passenger cars which are 1998 model year or newer, and weight 14,000 GVWR or under, undergo a biennial smog inspection similar to their gasoline counterparts.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    xwesx said:

    stever said:

    Renewables have already passed hydro? That's encouraging

    Hydro *is* a renewable (but, I get what you meant). :p

    Personally, I would NOT want to see wind or solar take any meaningful portion of the energy "market share," assuming consumption at the level reported in that release. I like landscapes with beauty and variety. The whole US would look like Arlington, OR, or southern MN if we were to proliferate those technologies sufficiently to supplant other fuel sources. Perhaps if we used a quarter of the electricity that we do today, going fully renewable would even be in the cards.

    And, considering the amount of resources (non-renewable) that go into wind and solar, we would definitely need to keep mining ramped up, but I'm sure the environmentalists would overlook that. ;)

    You hit on several important aspects of alternative energy. First you have progressive types like our friend Rocky that would use eminent domain to cover the entire SW desert with Solar panels. And then build power corridors to the consumers. Crossing national parks and wilderness areas is not big deal to the Bernie types. He wants jobs and damn the environment.

    Second Alternatives require large amounts of Rare Earth Elements. Something we no longer produce. China controls 95% of those resources. Very wise planning on their part. So we buy most of our solar and wind products from China. Lithium is another element needed for current battery design that is controlled by enemies of the USA. Individual solar with battery backup holds some promise for parts of the USA.

    If EVs take off in a serious way, we will need a lot more power. Will we go the route Germany is going by expanding coal?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-08/vw-s-u-s-head-tells-congress-430-000-cars-need-engine-retrofit

    A bit of Obama speak, but Horn, CEO, VW G A sez a couple of (rogue, my sic) engineers made the "cheating" software decision. So in effect, Sergeant Schultz is the culprit. Corporate knowz nut ting!

    So IF the 2009 Jetta TDI gets a new reflashing and emissions system, that's a minimum of about 100,000 mile warranty or whatever the Fed/State warranties will be. So if it takes two years, we will probably log 30.000 miles. Defacto, that will be 230,000 miles under warranty.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited October 2015
    So blame two "rogue" programmers for a 11 million car fraud ?
    VW thinks they can "again " get away with it !!!

    Austrian Corporal's legacy lives on :open_mouth:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    So does fiction mirror reality, or does reality mirror fiction? Realistically, the US markets are only concerned with about 430,000 units= 3.9%.

    As entertaining,sad & as profitable as this has been, even I have to admit to certain amounts of Alice in Wonderland qualities to this.

    So from a realistic and practical point of view, I will await the recalls. It is becoming clearer it might take up to two years, if not more .
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I dunno - I think it's raising attention across the board about NOx and particulates.

    There was this today:

    Virginia trucking firm fined $100,000 for violating California's diesel pollution rules (LA Times).

    The company pulled the 73 rigs out of California - now the question is, who gets to breathe that air next?

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    Well, it certainly does raise the question why those very same law makers & EPA officials give trucks from Mexico, that use LSD and worse and have no filters also, free passes in CA, dare I say the rest of the USA. It's not like they CAN'T turn them around at the borders !

    To lump diesel big rigs with the diesel passenger cars is misleading at the very best.
    Some other poster said that I was talking crap, when I said there are big rigs that run around without proper to zero emissions controls . Turns out his post was the stinky & clueless onel!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,464
    The eco-weenies love to include old commercial vehicles with modern diesel (adblue even) cars, it's part of their attack MO.

    Pretty amusing seeing the political trash attack the VW suit today, the same people who OK regulations which allow trucks and commercials to pollute far more than cars. Won't help diesel sales.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    >>Well, it certainly does raise the question why those very same law makers & EPA officials give trucks from Mexico, that use LSD and worse and have no filters also, free passes in CA, dare I say the rest of the USA.

    Works for me - the pilot program showed that Mexican truckers are safe and their trucks get inspected at the border every 90 days, so there's no reason not to keep the pressure on them to normalize the emissions regs from there to Canada (they are at one of the older Euro specs now I think). And the border states have 15 ppm diesel available from Pemex . If you've ever been to Mexico City, you know they could use higher standards there too, although some USLD is available there.

    There's no reason to "excuse" passenger vehicles from the regs even though they may share the same fuel as trucks. That's one of the proposals being kicked around to save VW though.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I'm not sure what you mean?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Fin got ahead of me. That's my excuse. :)

    It was interesting to see how many people at the hearing today noted that they had a VW at one time or another.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    I dunno - I think it's raising attention across the board about NOx and particulates.

    There was this today:

    Virginia trucking firm fined $100,000 for violating California's diesel pollution rules (LA Times).

    The company pulled the 73 rigs out of California - now the question is, who gets to breathe that air next?

    Must have been some serious NOx. If they are allowed 123 times as much as the Golf TDI to start with. I could not read, LA times wants money. I don't pay for any news. When I have to do that time for me to dump the Internet like I did TV.

    This makes the VW fiasco seem unimportant. 1 millions semis vs 70k VW TDIs.

    The EPA estimates one million semis are on California's highways and more than half are from out of state. It's estimated about 70,000 of those trucks are operating without proper soot filters. They say one unfiltered truck produces as much pollution as one hundred cars, so the crackdown on those trucks is escalating.

    http://abc30.com/politics/money-from-epa-fines-on-virginia-trucking-company-to-help-clean-valley-air/1023973/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    Hm, can't recall having any paywall issues with the LA Times. Not too surprised though. Sorry about that.

    And yeah, my wife doesn't believe me, but I think I could live without the net if I had to.

    Anyway, glad your link says the crackdown is escalating.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited October 2015
    stever said:

    Hm, can't recall having any paywall issues with the LA Times. Not too surprised though. Sorry about that.

    And yeah, my wife doesn't believe me, but I think I could live without the net if I had to.

    Anyway, glad your link says the crackdown is escalating.

    I have always believed in getting the big polluters first. Then do the fine tuning. So much easier for the government bullies to pick on the little guy.

    PS
    LATimes said my freebies had ended.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    With all the ad blockers and cookie killers and incognito or in private browsing, I suppose the ad revenue won't support a lot of free net sites much longer. Shouldn't be an issue here though. ;)

    So, if some number between 450,000 and eleven million isn't big enough Mr. Dirksen, where do you want to start? Seems like keeping ~250 million passenger cars clean just in the US is big target.

    "I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." Another Dirksenian - miss that guy, even if he was misquoted about his billions..
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,519
    Not a slow diesel news day for sure. Tomorrow I'm going to fill my oil tank up with approximately 200 gallons of #2 heating oil at the lowest price I've paid for it in the 5 plus years I've lived in CT @ $1.88 per gallon.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    nyccarguy said:

    Not a slow diesel news day for sure. Tomorrow I'm going to fill my oil tank up with approximately 200 gallons of #2 heating oil at the lowest price I've paid for it in the 5 plus years I've lived in CT @ $1.88 per gallon.

    Way cool,especially w HHO @ $1.63 !
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    stever said:

    Hm, can't recall having any paywall issues with the LA Times. Not too surprised though. Sorry about that.

    When I logged into the link, there was a banner saying I could read 5 articles free. I suggest clearing your cookies, which may be where they tally up the articles read in order to know when to block you. I use Cleanup! and Piriform CCLeaner daily. Fewer cookies means the third party folks can't read other cookies to decide what ads to send you. I.e., I look at a car dealership site, it leaves a cookie, 3rd party starts sending me ads about cars when they see the other cookie. But be careful what boxes you turn on in those cleaners unless you understand what you're removing.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    With all the ad blockers and cookie killers and incognito or in private browsing, I suppose the ad revenue won't support a lot of free net sites much longer. Shouldn't be an issue here though. ;)

    So, if some number between 450,000 and eleven million isn't big enough Mr. Dirksen, where do you want to start? Seems like keeping ~250 million passenger cars clean just in the US is big target.

    "I am a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times." Another Dirksenian - miss that guy, even if he was misquoted about his billions..

    The figure I read was 15% or 72k in CA. If my calculations are correct that 40 VW TDIs pollute the equivalent of ONE semi diesel. The offending cars in CA are .0018% of the diesel truck pollution. I look at it like I do Carbon footprints. Mr Gore when you get your carbon footprint down to the size of mine, Feel free to regulate the rest of US. I am currently basking in the price of diesel here. 607 miles and I had to fill yesterday. That was for 62 days. I won't mention how much RUG I have used in my gas guzzling Nissan Frontier during that time. I wish I had a Golf TDI for all my short trips. Trying Revco diesel this tank. Lowest price in my area using CC.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    nyccarguy said:

    Not a slow diesel news day for sure. Tomorrow I'm going to fill my oil tank up with approximately 200 gallons of #2 heating oil at the lowest price I've paid for it in the 5 plus years I've lived in CT @ $1.88 per gallon.

    That is great. I remember filling our heating oil tank on the farm in MN back in the late 1970s. It was $1.56 per gallon. That would be like $6 a gallon today. Keeping that farm house warm in the winter was by far our biggest expense.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450

    stever said:

    Hm, can't recall having any paywall issues with the LA Times. Not too surprised though. Sorry about that.

    When I logged into the link, there was a banner saying I could read 5 articles free. I suggest clearing your cookies, which may be where they tally up the articles read in order to know when to block you. I use Cleanup! and Piriform CCLeaner daily. Fewer cookies means the third party folks can't read other cookies to decide what ads to send you. I.e., I look at a car dealership site, it leaves a cookie, 3rd party starts sending me ads about cars when they see the other cookie. But be careful what boxes you turn on in those cleaners unless you understand what you're removing.

    Thanks, I will give that a try. I run Malwarebytes to get rid of the trash. But you are right about the cookies cluttering up the screen with ads relating to anything and everything you may look at. That is the only way NYT, LATimes and WSJ would know how many times I have looked at their site.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    gagrice said:

    I cannot believe how stupid some of our elected officials are. Why don't they measure the NOx in the air we breathe and compare with the air records from 2008. See if there was a significant increase in NOx. I can guarantee there are a lot worse health problems in this country. We have cleaner air than most of the world.

    What makes you think that they don't?
    http://www3.epa.gov/region1/airquality/nox.html http://www3.epa.gov/region1/eco/acidrain/top50so2nox.html

    The air quality for every region in the country is measured. Any given area is evaluated for what is going into that region, what they add to it, and what they send on to the next region. If you really want to know what this used to be like, don't search for 2008 data, go back to the Clean Air Act of 1990 and see what the levels were. It's still got a ways to go but the over all levels today are a fraction of what they were in the 70s-80s.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    edited October 2015
    gagrice said:


    Thanks, I will give that a try. I run Malwarebytes to get rid of the trash. But you are right about the cookies cluttering up the screen with ads relating to anything and everything you may look at. That is the only way NYT, LATimes and WSJ would know how many times I have looked at their site.

    I had also started going in at first to the cookies and removing all those with the words in the name related to the one newspaper. Two of the Ohio newspapers I follow use the cookies to store my history for the count of stories I've been allowed.

    . But I have learned by running both of those cleaners, in default set up I believe, it removes everything needed to reset the cookie count. Cuts down on the spam emails. I also tried ghastly, but it was too cumbersome to use which blocks all kinds of info being sent from my computer to the bad and good guys everytime a site page loads. Required blocking too many kinds of links that occur hidden in the background. Many of those I want to work.

    Firefox has a history|clear history step in the three bar button at the right of the url bar, if you use it. I've never tried it alone to see if it cleared the right cookies.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    I keep hearing that the VW problem is really the fault of two programmers! LOL

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, there's an IT joke there somewhere about Ms. Zero and Mr. One. Those rogues. Totally unsupervised, I'm sure. :)

    If you really want to zap stuff in Windows, check out links about hosts files.

    "Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi have joined the growing list of manufacturers whose diesel cars are known to emit significantly more pollution on the road than in regulatory tests, according to data obtained by the Guardian.

    The Guardian revealed last week that diesel cars from Renault, Nissan, Hyundai, Citroen, Fiat, Volvo and Jeep all pumped out significantly more NOx in more realistic driving conditions.

    “The VW issue in the US was purely the trigger which threw light on a slightly different problem in the EU - widespread legal over-emissions,” Molden said. “For NOx, [diesel] cars are on average four times over the legal limit, because of the lenient nature of the test cycle in the EU.”

    Four more carmakers join diesel emissions row (theguardian.com)

    This is real world testing, not deliberate cheating.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    nyccarguy said:

    Not a slow diesel news day for sure. Tomorrow I'm going to fill my oil tank up with approximately 200 gallons of #2 heating oil at the lowest price I've paid for it in the 5 plus years I've lived in CT @ $1.88 per gallon.


    So what's the fine for untaxed diesel or red dyed AG these days if you are caught out on the road with it in your tank?

    http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/tougher-penalties-wanted-for-red-dyed-diesel-fuel-violations/article_f2e1bc34-882d-11e2-8471-001a4bcf887a.html

    Hmmm, $10 per gallon, times the size of your tank.....
    http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/dyeddiesel.html

    Fines for refusing to allow your tanks to be inspected...
    https://revenue-pa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/147/~/what-is-the-motor-fuels-dyed-fuel-program?

    On top of the fines that are levied if they find dyed fuel oil.....
    https://revenue-pa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/148/related/1/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xNDQ0Mzk4OTUxL3NpZC9naU9xOHd5bQ==
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This may be the real diesel killer in the US, for a while at least:

    "But now that VW has frozen the sales of new and used TDI models, car shoppers may struggle to identify comparable alternatives, she said.

    “There’s a bit of a hole in the marketplace,” Ms. Caldwell said. “Other vehicles certainly could be substituted, but there aren’t a lot of affordable fun-to-drive diesels out there.”

    While some pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles offer diesels, only one passenger car in America competes directly with the TDI for affordability: The $26,500 Chevrolet Cruze diesel compact sedan, which gets up to 46 miles per gallon and can be driven 700 miles on the highway on a single tank."

    With VW No Longer an Option, Diesel Buyers Have Few Choices (NY Times)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,464
    The Guardian, a high quality source. One of these days, something good will come out of Limeyland or Brussels. It hasn't happened yet.

    Most EU diesels don't seem to be adblue tech cars, so it might be hard to relate them to their US spec equivalents, especially MB and BMW.
    stever said:

    Yeah, there's an IT joke there somewhere about Ms. Zero and Mr. One. Those rogues. Totally unsupervised, I'm sure. :)


    Four more carmakers join diesel emissions row (theguardian.com)

    This is real world testing, not deliberate cheating.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,464
    edited October 2015
    I'd be most concerned about where the fine money goes. Gotta keep those perks alive.

    nyccarguy said:

    Not a slow diesel news day for sure. Tomorrow I'm going to fill my oil tank up with approximately 200 gallons of #2 heating oil at the lowest price I've paid for it in the 5 plus years I've lived in CT @ $1.88 per gallon.


    So what's the fine for untaxed diesel or red dyed AG these days if you are caught out on the road with it in your tank?

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,848
    fintail said:

    I'd be most concerned about where the fine money goes. Gotta keep those perks alive.

    That's the question that it seems most people forget to ask, just where does that money go?

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't recall anyone in here talking about using home heating oil or farm diesel in their passenger car, at least not lately. Do many people try to cheat that way? (and no, that wasn't a setup for VW jokes...).

    Too early to tell what it means but "Federal and California regulators have begun an investigation into a second computer program in Volkswagen’s diesel cars that also affects the operation of the cars’ emission controls." (NY Times).
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    From the Guardian :smile:

    NOx pollution is at illegal levels in many parts of the UK and is believed to have caused many thousands of premature deaths and billions of pounds in health costs.


    Is this an empirical finding or a real factual statement proved by evidence ?

    Its like saying Global warming has caused deaths of many Polar Bears ( Quoting Al Gore and his ilk :smile: )
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    There's links above estimating deaths in the US that can be attributed to VW's cheating that range from 8 to around 100. That's deaths from NOx. Epidemiologists live for that kind of stuff.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    However, in a letter seen by Reuters to EU officials, the ACEA chairman and Renault chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, said that no significant progress on NOx was possible before 2019. Reuters said that ACEA, which lobbies for Europe’s carmakers in Brussels, told the officials on 1 October that the NOx limit for a new, more realistic test should be 70% higher than today’s limit.

    Quoting , Carlos Ghosyn , CEO of Renault-Nissan. So it is not possible to produce Diesel engines meeting current requirements. Will it be the end of car diesels ?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826

    I keep hearing that the VW problem is really the fault of two programmers! LOL

    So how do one arm men hack? (That old series the fugitive, pun intended ) OJ blames them too!? ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited October 2015
    stever said:

    There's links above estimating deaths in the US that can be attributed to VW's cheating that range from 8 to around 100. That's deaths from NOx. Epidemiologists live for that kind of stuff.

    TOTALLY suspect until they start showing gasser figures or figures from various emissions products they track.Organic farming death figures also need to be shown.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,125
    carboy21 said:

    However, in a letter seen by Reuters to EU officials, the ACEA chairman and Renault chief executive, Carlos Ghosn, said that no significant progress on NOx was possible before 2019. Reuters said that ACEA, which lobbies for Europe’s carmakers in Brussels, told the officials on 1 October that the NOx limit for a new, more realistic test should be 70% higher than today’s limit.

    Quoting , Carlos Ghosyn , CEO of Renault-Nissan. So it is not possible to produce Diesel engines meeting current requirements. Will it be the end of car diesels ?

    If the EU accepts a 70% increase in NOx limits, no. What VW did was a 1,000% - 4,000% increase.
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