Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

deltheking

No,it is not false generalization. 99% of all the aftermarket 3rd party warr companies are scams.Too many folks have been burnt by these fraudulent companies. And dealers will want to sell these aftermarket warr as typically there is more profit in for them.
Warranty Gold was BBB rated and it went bust.Never trust a 3rd party war.. Even CR ,AOL,Edmunds advice against these companies.They always suggest to buy a manuf ext warr. One look at the complaints against these on the net and you can instantly see why. :lemon:
There is a lot of discussion in the Ext warr threads about this .And absolutely the manuf warr is the best ,not any fly by night 3rd party warr. Never ever trust a 3rd party warr.

lrguy44

99% of all the aftermarket 3rd party warr companies are scams

Factual numerical documentation please

I did say that one should do some diligence and not to buy mail order or internet offerings. But that is because the coverage is not what one would think. There are many 3rd party warranties around that provide excellent coverage and are financially sound. Let's see, how many manufacturer's declared BK this year? Are they out of the woods yet? Do not condemn all with one example. It is like saying that all cars are bad while using Yugo as an example.

oldfarmer50

On your average non-sports car sedan type vehicle, how much less is it worth if it has manual tranny vs. automatic? I'm talking about your run of the mill 3-5 year old car.

I know on a new car where you have a choice an auto tranny costs about $1K more. Does that spread apply to used as well?

lrguy44

On the vast majority of cars a manual tranny is a deduct. The exact dollar amount wiull vary by vehicle.

lrguy44

To clarify, I do prefer a manufacturer's warranty if I can get the coverage I need at a decent price. On a used car however, a manufacturer's warranty meeting coverage and affordability needs may not be available and a good 3rd party may be the smart choice. As I said before, I have had several cars with a 3rd party and I have never had a problem.

jf2737

Just checked my credit union account and my car loan has showed up on there. I can sleep a little better now.

Just have one more question. When I was signing all the papers at the dealership, the F & I guy said, "once the check clears, you can come back here and tear up the NMAC contact". I asked him what do I need to show him as proof that the check cleared. He said I have to ask my credit union.

So what constitutes proof that this check has cleared?

Thanks for everyone's advice here. You guys have been very helpful in my first new car purchase ever.

lrguy44

Usually 10 days. You could have him call your bank for verification. Also, you could print your bank transactions to prove it but that is drastic and an invasion of your privacy. We have been doing back-up contracts for years without a problem.

Kirstie_H

Anecdotal evidence, even if derived from info in the nearly-infallible Edmunds.com forums, is insufficient to calculate such a percentage.

If 99% of them were truly SCAMS, most of them would be out of business. There are actually very few outright scams. There is no industry, including MLM businesses, in which 99% of the companies are fraudulent.

While some have been outright scams, many of the failures have resulted from the implementation of inadequate business models. And, while you may feel that 99% of third-party warranties do not represent any value to you, that doesn't make them scams.

isellhondas

The amount of the deduction for a manual will vary but it's usually 500-1000 dollars.

With most used cars, a manual will make them nearly impossible to sell and the dealers are well aware of this.

the_big_al

which is too bad, because when I bought my truck, the one thing I was really disappointed about was that it didn't have a manual tranny. I still to this day wish it had one. But it was the only one on the lot that wasn't 4x4 and had a V6. ONLY one. So I bought. I have been very happy with the truck, I just wish it had a manual tranny. Too bad that by the time I am ready for a new truck, all manual tranny's will probably have been phased out.

qbrozen

I know on a new car where you have a choice an auto tranny costs about $1K more. Does that spread apply to used as well?

However, I think some manufacturers have gotten hip to the fact that folks who want a manual don't even care about the price advantage, though. For example, the V6 Accord 6-spd I had cost exactly the same as the auto version ... but then was worth $1k less as a trade in.

verdugo

There is no industry, including MLM businesses, in which 99% of the companies are fraudulent

The ponzi scheme industry is higher than that :P

I am about to buy an extended warranty for my car, and will go with the manufacturer's warranty. I'll have work done at the dealership, and feel more comfortable with a warranty backed by the car company.

Even the warranties by the car companies are administered by 3rd parties, they just enter into an agreement with the car company.

The way I see it, I have the car company to help me in any fight (hopefully it won't be the 3rd party company and the car company against me).

deltheking

Anecdotal evidence suggests Edmunds backed aftermarket 3rd party ext warr companies were indeed fallible !

Some 3rd party ext warr are not outright scams per se- but what I meant was that these never pay any claims and have so many exclusions that there are no inclusions. :shades: Every single site out there-Edmunds,CR,AOL,,MSNBC,MSN all unanimously advise against these 3rd party warr and suggest to buy only a manuf warr.And a good 3rd party warr- well,it`s like searching for a needle in a haystack. Why search for the needle when you have the whole haystack in front of you in the form of the manuf ext warr?? Beats me totally!

And LRguy-- Which 3rd party warr are comprehensive and legitimate? We would like to know.Most of them want to use cheap aftermarket parts and they dont cover the dealership hourly rate. You say the carmakers went bankrupt.Well the US Govt of all entities backed GM and Chrysler`s warr unconditionally.If a 3rd party warr went kaboom-do you think the US Govt would step in.No chance.No way,no how. :lemon: So always a manuf warr is better than a 3rd party ext warr under any circumstances as these are more comprehensive also!

jayrider

Of course you realize very few folks even break even on repairs vs cost of the policy. The bean counters know out of 100 policies sold very few cash in. The original warranty and drive train sort out the problem cars. I've bought several on cars with bad reliability histories and never used them for one freaking claim. Very irritating. Now peace of mind is worth something so if you sleep better knowing you are covered -- then it's worth it. My guess is that all the new high tech - 6 speed- cvt- cylinder limiting auto transmissions will be unfixable. Parts will never be mass produced so no rebuilds. If they blow -- 6-8 grand easy for a new one. My guess is to save every nickel and dime in manufacturing every plastic part they can subsitute for metal will be installed. Some won't fail for 150k some will fail at 125k-100k-80k-60k. One thing for sure-- at some point they will fail and then what? I'm leasing for the next few years but if I was buying for the long term then Kia and Hyundai would be on my short list.

Mr_Shiftright

Extended warranties are nothing more than a BET. They are betting your car won't break, you are betting it will. If their actuarial tables are good, they will win most bets. The riskier the car, the higher the bet. You want to insure against mechanical failure on a Rover or a Jaguar? Pony up at the gambling table. You want fewer exclusions? Ditto, raise your bet.

As for those tricky exclusions, one would hope that a buyer would *read through* all that before he/she signs up. I'm not too big on sympathy for people who refuse to read the contracts they sign and ask lots of questions and "what ifs".

lrguy44

There are only 2 kinds of warranties - Exclusionary and stated component. A"bumper to bumper" warranty is an exclusionary - usually excludes normal wear and tear items . Stated component are like powertrain and powertrain plus - they will state which components are covered. Even manufacturer warranties can be stated component. I recommend exclusionary. The 3rd party I have even covers air suspension. I will not name some of the good ones I know of as this is not a place to advertise.
The warranties are nothing more than insurance policies - some good, some not so good. The decision on a repair is up to the administrator, not the manufacturer. The administrator may handle both manufacturer and 3rd party. In fact, some 3rd party are actually owned by manufacturers.
Finally, the government committed to backing warranties not because a GM or Chrysler warranty was better than some 3rd party warranties, but rather to maintain enough consumer confidence to sell some cars - nothing more.

Mr_Shiftright

Stating your opinion as to which extended warranty companies are reliable would be helpful actually, as long as you don't try to sell them here.

lrguy44

In my recent experience, Motorist Assistance Plan thru EFG, Easy Care (Ford) and United Car Care have been good to me (not an endorsement). What I would do is read all the fine print - what are the exclusions or the stated components, seals gaskets and fluids should be included, can any ASE Certified mechanic work on the car (an advantage over manufacturer warranties). Cancellation and/or transfer policies are important.

isellhondas

Six speed accord coupes are still being produced (I think) but we may sell one or two a year and we are a high volume store.

Then a few years ago, Honda decided to make some V-6 sedans and they just flopped. People ask for oddball cars to be produced and then nobody buys them.

As used cars, they sit around forever.

Mr_Shiftright

Even a Corvette sells well as an automatic these days.

isellhondas

I think some people still remember the Powerglides and Dynaflows of yesterday.

Today's automatics are so much better and there is SO much more traffic to condend with.

verdugo

Of course you realize very few folks even break even on repairs vs cost of the policy. The bean counters know out of 100 policies sold very few cash in.

That's the way insurance works. I don't buy the warranty when I buy the car, I want to get a "feel" for how troublesome the car will be. As somebody said (lrguy?), electronics are such a big part of cars now and they are expensive to fix.

Our '08 VW Passat has about 10k miles left in the original warranty. We weren't planning on getting a warranty, but in the past 2 weeks it had a leak in the rear differential ($5500 warranty) and a bad windshield wiper pump (warranty). We are looking into a warranty now. :sick:

verdugo

Even a Corvette sells well as an automatic these days.

We're going to New Zealand in a few weeks, and we will be renting a car. We specified that we want an automatic, not a manual. It'll be hard enough driving on the other side of the road without having to worry about shifting with your left hand.

fezo

You bet! Years ago I did the same trick in Australia.

jayrider

It's part of the euro-car experience.

carstryke

you have to go basic cheap with a gutless engine with 2wd or go out of most ppl's price range sports car fancy to get a manual tranny. can you blame the ppl for not wanting one. For my family of 5 If i could get a full size car like a Impala or a larger suv or a full size 1500 truck with a stick i wouldnt think twice about buying it.

the_big_al

Almost pulled the trigger a few years ago on a manual Camry. I think it was the 4-banger though and not the V6. My wife even wanted it. At the time I had a manual trannied V6 powered S-10 and loved it. The Taurus (Tortise) it would have replaced was an auto... Decided against not buy only because the Tortise was paid off and only had 60K miles... better sense prevailed once we were looking at a $300 a month payment + a higher insurance payment.

Mr_Shiftright

Large vehicles are a lot less fun to drive with a manual transmission than one might think. Unless it's necessary (as it might be with some types of trucks) I sure wouldn't want one.

verdugo

It's part of the euro-car experience.

Actually, only British driving experience. And if you ask them, they're not in Europe :P The rest of Europe is same as us.

I know how to drive manual, but I don't want to try to drive a manual on the other side of the road. Heck, I have a hard enough time crossing the street when I go to London.

lrguy44

What?

isellhondas

An extended warranty on any VW is a very good thing to have!

They aren't cheap to buy though. The acuary tables don't lie.

glamb

I agree with Kirstie. There are more legitimate service contract companies out there than there are fraudulent ones. Vehicle Service Contract companies are regulated in most states, much like actual insurance companies. They have to register, be compliant with the specific laws, and either have to insure their obligations with an insurance company or reserve in accordance with the state law and subject to financial audits. If you are looking to purchase a Vehicle Service Contract (manufacturer's program as well as "3rd Party" programs), check out the provider to make sure they are registered in your state if required and check out their underlying insurance carrier to make sure they are highly rated by AM Best. Keep in mind that very few manufacturer's programs are actually owned by the manufacturer. There are several that are offered by "3rd Party" providers that contract with the manufacturer in name and endorsement only.

verdugo

What?

They're too cool to be Europeans, they are British!

verdugo

An extended warranty on any VW is a very good thing to have!

I never used it on my 2001 Jetta. I had it for 5 years, 60k miles.

The 2007 Passat was the first model year. Never making that mistake again. It's not been bad, but better safe than sorry. Found a VW dealer in PA (through another forum) that offered the warranty at 50% of what my dealer is asking.

jayrider

My Dad bought a few old cars in the 60's. One was a 27 Cadillac coupe with a rumble seat. Three speeds with a gearbox that you had to double clutch. I was great at shifting -- backing up - not so great. Ran it into a pole with him in the passenger seat. Never said a word-- he must have been loaded. Just the rear fender easy fix. Had a throttle lever on the steering wheel for starting on hills. Pretty cool.

jipster

Extended warranties are nothing more than a BET

Don't some manufacturers (i.eToyota) reimburse you for the money on an extended warranty if you don't use it? Sounds pretty good for the buyer... not too smart for the seller though.

volvomax

Only if you seek to terminate the warranty prior to its end date. They all have that provision.

lrguy44

Most are prorated on cancellation

Mr_Shiftright

Correct me please, someone, if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that no aftermarket extended warranty available to the consumer can duplicate the original manufacturer's warranty in every respect.

grandtotal

Correct me please, someone, if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that no aftermarket extended warranty available to the consumer can duplicate the original manufacturer's warranty in every respect.

They could, at a price, but they don't because the premium would be unattractive.

lrguy44

They can duplicate (or very close to it) an extended manufacturer's warranty. The original warranty may include light bulbs, battery, trim etc. Extended warranties (including manufacturer's) usually come with a deductable and exclude wear and tear items. But both can have towing, roadside, etc.

glamb

I don't know of any service contracts that duplicate the manufacturer's warranty in every respect. They will provide other type of benefits/allowances and over-allowances during that period that the manufacturer does not cover. They generally will provide coverage terms that wrap around and exceed the period covered by the manufacturer.

jayrider

Once you get past the original factory warranty into an extended one, lots of stuff gets excluded. Especially on even the most comprehensive of 3rd party policies. All the trim and window mechanisms are usually out. Seatbelts,mirrors, electric accessories too. Don't know about the mfg ext stuff. The key is to compare the exclusion list. The original warranty usually only excludes wear items. My son has an 07 sonata with 40k miles that he bought new. A headlight burned out and the dealer replaced both FREE. He didn't even buy it at a hyundai dealership. Impressive.

british_rover

The Bumper to Bumper warranty on a Hyundai is five years 60,000 miles and it is the only transferable warranty on that car so yeah of course they are going to replace the headlight.

Volvo's CPO warranty covers everything that the factory warranty covers but cosmetic trim items, glass, seat surfaces, bulbs and of course no wear items/consumables.

Oh and the radio they don't cover the radio either.

The Saab CPO program used to mirror the factory bumper to bumper warranty exactly but they stopped that a few months ago now it is just like the Volvo warranty.

Power seat motors and power window motors are covered on both.

Land Rover's old CPO warranty was pretty much identical to Volvo but did cover radios. The Land Rover CPO did have a 100 dollar deductible while Volvo and Saab do not.

I am not sure what the new CPO Rover warranty is set up like because they did change it. I think coverage is the same but time is only 5 years 62,000 miles not the old 6 years 75,000 miles.

Volvo and Saab are both six years 100,000 miles.

Be very cautious of how a CPO or any warranty is stated.

For example Lexus is three years from the day you buy the car as a CPO or 100,000 total miles. Lexus has a 4 year 50,000 bumper to bumper and a 6 years 70,000 mile powertrain warranty.

If you buy a year old Lexus CPO with 15,000 miles you get no additional time warranty at all so unless you drive 20,000 miles a year the CPO is worthless to you.

oldfarmer50

"...compare the exclusions list..."

With my Chrysler I asked to review the EW contract before making up my mind. The F&I guy tore off the first page and handed it to me. Right then I knew I wouldn't be buying because he didn't give me a copy of the complete contract.

At home I got out my glasses to read the very faint small print on the back and came to a section on "exclusions". The problem was that the exclusions were on one of the pages he didn't give me. If I had ever considered buying the EW THAT put the kibash on it for sure.

The next day I told the F&I guy that I was declining the EW because I couldn't tell what the exclusions were. He said "The are NO exclusions" with a straight face.

At that point I became convinced he was on crack.

jayrider

The lexus ew makes little sense unless they include a very low loan rate for at least 4 years. With Lexus-- the low mileage late model cpo's are priced way high-- would buy new if I wanted one.

british_rover

Lexus models are generally terrible used car buys unless they are old enough that the depreciation curve evens out.

At that point you can't CPO them anyway so who cares they are just old high mileage cars.

I have a customer trading in a 2003 S60 AWD next week that they really killed the mileage on. They put 120,000 miles on it in the 6 or so years they owned. it. All those miles did hurt her resale value but the car still has decent value because it is in such great shape. The fact that you can't get any S60s right now helps too.

I mentioned this story to some non-car people I know and they said well they should have bought a Lexus or Acura and it would be worth more.

Yes they could have bought a Lexus or Acura but they would have spent more for the Lexus to have it only be worth about a 1,000 dollars more after 120,000 miles and the lexus wouldn't have AWD.

The Acura would have cost them less but also be worth 1,000 dollars less and still not have AWD.

They would spend more then 1,000 dollars for an extra set of wheels and snow tires.

After enough years and mileage even a Lexus depreciates to about the same level of similar cars in similar condition.

jayrider

Other than collector cars with restoration value, everything depreciates to 5k or less - some get there sooner -- really low mileage and condition can be the exception to a point. My 03 liberty is loaded and only has 27k miles. Couple of very very small door dings[ fixable] on one door. My wife in the garage did it. All records etc. Book says as much as 14k but you can buy a new one -- a bit less equipped for less than 20k. I paid 21k for it new -- no trade. Jeeps are funny -- may be someone who really wants one so you could ebay it but I figure 8-9k would be realistic. Every year worth less. In 2013 it will still be in my garage with 43k miles. 10 years old. What it's worth?- anybody's guess -- send it to mannheim and roll the dice.
I'm leasing once more after the current lease is up -- love driving a new car every three years even if it costs more. Of course trading every three years isn't a whole lot better.

qdaken

Hello, What is the proper discount for a Demo 2009 highlander limited with 6000 miles ? I have price quotes with discounts off MRSP ranging from $2600 to 2900 for a new Highlander NON DEMO with under a 100 miles. Should there be a extra discount for the Demo vehicle with 6000 miles? Thanks for your help

deltheking

MSRP is irrelevant. What are the options on the Limited?What is the invoice and are there any rebates or incentives? How much are they asking? And how much are the Non Demo Highlander prices?
Hope this helps.