Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

valentin650

Hi,
I am shopping for a used Infiniti M35, and the vehicle history report of one of the cars I am looking at it said that the car failed an emissions test. It then passed the test 2 weeks later. Is this a red flag or is this normal? What could cause a failed emissions test? Should I stay away from that car?

Thanks

the_big_al

There are a number of reasons a vehicle can fail an emissions test, ranging from a bad O2 sensor that just needed replaced to a serious engine problem. Without knowing any more detail than just that it failed, it's really hard to know. If it were just somthing as simple as a bad O2 sensor I don't think I would be too worried. Is there any more info other than it "failed an emissions test"?

oldfarmer50

I was listening to a TV ad by a local screamer dealer who moves a lot of cars. One of the things he was bragging about was that he had great inventory. This is compared to most dealers around here who still seem kind of empty from the C4C program.

My question is this: Do car makers give preference to the dealers who move the most iron? Would a dealer who sells 100 cars a week get preference over a dealer who sells 25 a week? Would the larger dealer have his pick of the "hot" cars when there is limited supply?

I wonder if this is the reason some dealers are reluctant to do factory orders?

isellhondas

It has nothing to do with "preference". The stores that sell the most, earn the most. Simple as that and that is the fairest way to do it.

eric2112

Hello,
I just purchased a 2010 Sonata-nice car.I told car dealer that I was using my own credit union to finance this purchase.I had a letter with app approved for $18.000.It wasn't a draft.It's a saturday at 9pm and my credit union is closed until monday morning.I traded a 95 maxima with 152,000 on it.I had since new 15 yrs ago.The credit union acted like I don't need a draft.So,tonight while buying this new car.The finance manager said he can't let me have a $20,000 car until the buying order is faxed to my credit union first thing on Monday.I didn't feel comfortable about this contract.I did put MB as intials down in 3 spots on the contract.My intials are really EB and I left no full signature on that form anywhere.They swear they will tear up this form after my credit union pays them $16,700 in a check?I hope this is some trick and they put this other high interest contract thur instead of my credit union loan?I have 2 days until Monday to find out I guess.They don't have my SS # and I got them to not run a credit union as far as I know.They claim that between now and Monday they have to show like collateral for the dealers bank whom gave them money for this car.If they were to be audited tommorrow they have to show something because I don't have an actual draft from my credit union,just a letter saying I was approved with an app number and $18,000 amount.They also are north of Orlando about 70 miles so my credit union isn't a bank they normally deal with.Maybe no direct electronic connection to my credit union.Please any input on if this is a trick by this car dealer or they will tear up this other contract on monday.I greatly appreciate any suggestions or the clear my concerns some??
Thank You,Eric

stickguy

anyway, justhad this discussion a week or so ago here. But, it is a normalpractice to cover the dealer in case the other deal falls apart.

if you are uncomfortable, the simple answer is wait until the check/draft from the CU is cleared on monday before taking the new car.

but, if you want a spot delivery, the 2nd contract covers the dealers nut. Yes, they will tear it up. if they didnt it would be some kind of fraud, trying to have 2 contracts on the same car!

eric2112

Hello,
I posted on another thread this question.I just brought a 2010 Sonata in Ocala,Fl.I used my credit union which doesn't have branchs this far north of Orlando where they are a bigger more known credit union.I have a letter the loan officer faxed be saying I'm approved on a car loan for $18,000.I asked my credit union about having a draft in hand.They said I don't need it.The Hyundai dealer asked for a draft.Its a saturday at 8pm and the sale is happening at this dealer.They have to wait until Monday morning to fax my credit union the buyers order.They say the dealers bank whom loans the dealer money to have cars on their lot could audit their floor plan and they have to have a finance contract with higher 16% interest having me sign until my credit union comes thur on monday.Because its to cover the dealer until monday letting me drive off in a $20,000 is what the buisness manager told me.I just hope they will tear this other high interest contract come Monday.This would be terrible if they are tricking me??Please reply here or to me at eb2112@tmail.com to releive my stress over wondering about this issue.They don't have my SS# and they said they didn't run my credit report.At first they wanted too.I put just intials on that finance contract.I put MB instead of my actual intial which would be EB in 3 places.I didn't put my full signature anywhere on that contract.He folded it and stapled it together and put it in the folder.He claims it will be torn up.Help,before I have a heart attack.Thank You very much.
Eric

eric2112

Hey stickguy,
I appreciate your quick reply.I took delivery tonight.I keep updating my credit union officer.I told him I was still looking 2 days ago and to leave the loan open.This Hyundai dealer in Ocala claims they don't use Fairwinds credit union,so they don't normally deal with them being its more an Orlando area credit union.So,your saying it sounds like it's just the buisness manager covering his butt.I hope so.That would be a dirty trick to proceed with 16% contract when I have an 8.50% rate for 60 months already??Your great help.Thank You,
Eric

lrguy44

Do car makers give preference to the dealers who move the most iron?

Car dealers get cars by allocation. How the formula is figured will vary by manufacturer and model but is basically a turn and earn process. Sell one, get one. But it will vary by availability.

alamocity

I recently saw a 2010 vehicle that was being sold at a dealership as a used car with only 10 miles on it and I am wondering if this is normal or something that I should be concerned about?

deltheking

This is quite common , I guess. Probably the buyer did not need the car or he might have lost a lob/going through divorce/expecting a baby-so need a minivan and not the sports car/buyer`s remorse/cant afford the payment now/really hated the car etc etc. :shades:
Any number of reasons. But a used is a used as the dealers like to say. Once it is titled,it is used irrespective of the mileage.Can be 5 miles or 500 miles.So I would ask a discount on it.Maybe 10% off. The salesfolks on this board can give you a more correct estimate.!!

Mr_Shiftright

I'm not seeing any 10% discount for a car with only 50 miles on it. True, you don't have the privilege of claiming that you are "original owner" but big deal, all you have to say is that you owned it "50 miles from new".

A lot depends on how the dealer made out in this somewhat unusual transaction and on what model year, type, trim level the car is. If it's some lavender colored turkey of a 2009 leftover model of an entry-level car (cloth seats, rubber mats, manual transmission, etc) that nobody really wants, well then, perhaps your 10% discount is in order.

But if it were a 2010 BMW 3-series----no way you'll get 10% in my opinion.

snakeweasel

I understand what you are saying but let me ask you this. Two cars are the exact same model with the exact same options and color and in the exact condition both with 50 miles on them, however one is "new" and the other is "used" which one would you buy?

verdugo

Shiftright wasn't saying you weren't goign to get *any* discount. He just said that he thought 10% was too much.

Mr_Shiftright

I guess I'd expect to pay a little less for the car with 50 miles on it, but if it's a BMW, I'm certainly not expecting a $4,000 discount off the "new-new" car's rock-bottom price.

And with some un-named cars, if they went 50 miles without breaking down, I'd actually think that was a plus :P

Actually, to be honest with you , and speaking just for myself, if someone grabbed the car with 6 miles on it before I got it, I'd take the one with 50 miles on it---I really wouldn't care.

I just don't think depreciation sets it that fast. Depreciation requires time + use.

Look at it this way...if you saw a 2009 car with the wrapper still on it at a dealer, right now, today---- and next to it to a stunning, ultra-low miles CPO 2009, I bet you the price difference wouldn't be very much at all.

Used car values are pretty strong right now.

alamocity

Actually what surprised me is that the vehicle in question (2010 Scion XB) was going for roughly $2000.00 less than a new one goes for and that is what made me stop and think something might not be right about the vehicle.

deltheking

Definitely depends on the make. If it`s a BMW/MB/Lexus/Honda/Toyota- 10% off might be impossible.But if it`s a Ford/Chevy/Chrysler/Dodge/Hyundai/Any GM/Nissan then I would most certainly try to get 10% off. If say its a Dodge Nitro or Jeep Liberty or Chevy tahoe I definitely will not pay the same price for a used titled car even though it maybe only 50 miles. :shades:

These makes depreciate more than others, and they are slow sellers new or used and so I would expect that discount. And also, the warr coverage changes if it`s used. Previously,Dodge lifetime powertrain warr was nontransferable. Hyundai`s either the 60k B2B or the 100k Powertrain warr- one of these,not sure which one - is non transferable. So why would I pay almost the same price for that used car with only 50 miles.

deltheking

If its 2k off, then I think I would not suspect something is totally wrong. Just get it checked at a mechanic or another Scion/toyota dealer,get a Carfax and also just ask the dealer the car`s history. As long as it is not a salvage title or it has been in an accident/had body repair-- I would definitely consider it. Maybe they can CPO it. Toyota does it,not sure about Scion. And Scions are very reliable.! :P

alamocity

Actually what surprised me is that the vehicle in question (2010 Scion XB) was going for roughly $2000.00 less than a new one goes for and that is what made me stop and think something might not be right about the vehicle.

isellhondas

I'm sure there is nothing worng with this car. It may already have plates which means you won't have to pay for those.

There are some posters here who are too suspecious and cynical to buy that car and that's their choice.

I wouldn't hesitate if I could save 2000.00.

deltheking

Yes, a car with that mileage and 2k off should be a no brainer really. I would go for it if it is saving me 2k. :shades:

oldfarmer50

:...sold at a dealership as a used car..."

A few months ago when Chrysler was shutting down dealerships a number of new vehicles began showing up at other stores as "used" with 10 or so miles. The discounts were pretty substantial.

When I inquired about this I was told that they might be from recently closed dealerships or perhaps rental agencies who had a surplus.

I don't know if this is the case with your car. If I was buying this car I would want some proof that it wasn't some sort of lemon buyback or one that fell off the truck.

Otherwise I would pay almost as much as for a "virgin".

keeferb

Anyone know what portion of the sale has to be completed by 12/31/09? i.e. if I am ordering a vehicle that won't be delivered until January, is there any way to still to qualify for the tax credit?

Thanks.

stickguy

If I had to guess, it sounds like a dealer with an overstock situation sent the excess to the auction?

Mr_Shiftright

I have a feeling there is more to this story, or more about this car. xB is a pretty good seller at an already bargain price at MSRP. The dealer either a) stole it back from the original buyer; b) has found religion and is giving cars away; c) knows something none of us does.

Perhaps the quote for the new one is MSRP and with a few more options? It's unlikely the two cars are absolutely even up in options.

my 2 cents.

alamocity

I too am suspicious on the deal as I have compared it to a base model XB and the difference in price is right at $2000.00 and both are equipped the same way, only difference is in color. I did a preliminary check on Carfax and it shows 2 items on the history so hope to get a full copy of the report to further investigate.

jipster

I recently saw a 2010 vehicle that was being sold at a dealership as a used car with only 10 miles on it and I am wondering if this is normal or something that I should be concerned about?

Ten miles? Transmission, engine and water pump probably went out on this sucker at around the 6 or 7 mile mark. I'd pass on this :lemon: .

kyfdx

There is a reason that the car is being sold used... I'd want to know that reason...

Could be innocent.... or, maybe the car fell off of the car carrier while being unloaded and has $3K worth of body work.

You need to find out which it is..

Mr_Shiftright

Many states put a limit on the amount of carrier damage that can be sustained and not reported by the dealer. Here in CA I think it is $500 or something like that....so of course, all bodywork invoices that the dealer gets from the body shop are $499 for some odd reason :P

oldfarmer50

"...Carfax and it shows 2 items on the history...

2 items in 10 miles? That can't be good.

1) Car registered.

2) Car crashed and burned on way home from dealer.

:lemon:

imidazol97

>dealer gets from the body shop are $499 for some odd reason

Now dealers wouldn't have body shop underprice repair work to circumvent the law? Would they? Huh? No, don't tell me they're not 100% truthful... :sick:

british_rover

Scions are still all built outside of the US right?

In that case the two items will be arrived at Port, and will probably list the location of the port, and shipped to original dealer. Carfax generally runs 90 plus days behind present day so the registration of this car probably won't show up yet.

Every used Volvo on our lot has those two notations on the carfax and they both appear before it was ever registered.

I would want to see the actual title of this car to confirm it was registered and is a real used car.

If it is a real used car just keep in mind that if it is a used car you most likely have no lemon law recourse. Some states do have some lemon law protections for used cars but they are less then new cars.

That being said it is a Scion so probably won't have any real problems anyway. Consumer Reports says that Scion is the most reliable new car brand right now, full disclosure I don't think that is true and other data sets back up my opinion, but even if Scion isn't the most reliable new car brand it is still above average.

Oh and the average of new cars right now is very, very good so being above average in the present day means the car is performing at a much higher level then even the best built cars 10 years ago.

isellhondas

Car Fax does this so you'll pay to see the report.

The history items are usually nothing.

Bottom line, If you are afraid of the car, pay an extra 2000.00 and simply buy a new one!

deltheking

For 2k more, I would get this used one. But if someone was scared that there is no lemon law recourse,then a new one is better. But the factory warr would still be in place. So I think this depends on the original poster`s comfort level and whether he/she really wants to save 2k for a used titled car with 50 miles,assuming everything checks out OK. And Scions are very reliable. So ,a matter of personal preference really now. :shades:

boomchek

If you're not comfortable with the dealership's process, then wait until you have the draft in hand before taking the vehicle home. Why stress yourself out?

boomchek

Keep in mind a "lemon buyback" would have lots of mileage on it, I'm guessing at least a few thousand miles in order for it's problems to materialize, be fixed, sent home again, and return to the shop, as well as having been on diagnostic test drives with the technicians.

So one with 10 miles it's pretty much impossible that it's a lemon buyback.

New cars that fell off the truck don't necessarily have to be titled, they can be sold as new with declared damage.

So in this case a new car with 10 miles could have been one won in a contest, where the winner would go to the dealership to claim it, and then immediately sell it back to them without even stepping foot in it. In this case it would have been titled once making it a used car.

Maybe in a case like this cash wasn't an option in the contest (no prize substitutions etc...) and that's why the process that created this "used" car.

kyfdx

Those are all good reasons.... So, shouldn't be too hard to find out..

If the dealer doesn't have an explanation, or doesn't want to give one.... that would raise a big red flag with me..

I have no problem buying a used car and saving $2K... But, cars with 10 miles sold as used seems unusual... If it were an '08 Chrysler Crossfire, or a model that had $5K of dealer cash on it in July, it would make perfect sense... But, why would a dealer take a $2K hit on a what is essentially a new Scion? Because it's titled? Seems excessive..

british_rover

So in this case a new car with 10 miles could have been one won in a contest, where the winner would go to the dealership to claim it, and then immediately sell it back to them without even stepping foot in it. In this case it would have been titled once making it a used car.

Maybe in a case like this cash wasn't an option in the contest (no prize substitutions etc...) and that's why the process that created this "used" car.

Ha we have a dodge ram on the lot right now that was one of those.

The original owner won it in a raffle of some sort but never titled it. It just sat in his driveway for a few months before he sold it to a friend who did title it. So now it is a 2005 Dodge ram with one real owner as it was only titled in the second guys name and has about 30,000 miles on it.

Super base car though V6 six speed manual and crank windows.

boomchek

I figure most folks would take cash over cars they won in contests. Obviously so much more you can do with cash, unless you have a ton of cash already and the car is a "fun toy" you can keep for the weekends.

tjc78

I have no problem buying a used car and saving $2K

With so many financing deals, in some cases the slightly used car financed at 6 or 7% would actually have a higher payment than the new one with 0 or 1.9%.

Example car with 0% (almost any GM these days) 5 year loan.

Brand new: $20,000 financed = $333.33 / month
Low mileage used $18,000 financed at 6% = $347.99
(Even if you got it for $17,000 its $328.66/month)

Really a no brainer in this case. The used car would be best for a cash buyer or a lot of money to put down.

jayrider

How do you know it's 2k off msrp? Have you sat down and got a signed buy sheet or is there a sign painted on the windshield? Is it 2k off the most expensive model with every single add on
Scion has a ton of body work and flash you can add. Trim-electronics etc. If this is a modestly equipped car with 2k off it would sell too quick to even make it to the front of the store.
Just got a price of a 2010 xb with over 3k off msrp. Msrp 30782 buy for 27670.

ashleyir

I am looking to purchase a 2010 CR-V but my local dealer doesn't have the one I want. They offered to do a dealer swap and asked me to come in and talk specifics with them. How does this work exactly? Should I expect to pay extra fees? Can I still get a good deal? Do I negotiate a price once they locate what I want or only after they take possession of the car?

lrguy44

Most dealers will not do a dealer trade until you commit to a price and the car. If the car is reasonably local, there should be no fees. The only thing the dealer may try to do 9and rightfully so) would be some or all of the transportation costs that may be incurred.

snakeweasel

Well let me ask this, if I bought a BMW drive it off the lot, down the street and back again and resold back to the dealership how much do you think I would get for it?

I will guess that even if they sell it again for a small discount they will make more money reselling it than they made selling it to me.

snakeweasel

The sale has to be complete by 12/31/09.

If you are working on the deal on 12/31/09 and finish it a second after midnight technically you lose out on it.

oldfarmer50

"...How does this work exactly..."

My last two new cars were dealer trades. Basicly, what I did was sit down with the salesman and tell him that there was nothing on his lot that fit my needs. I then told him what colors and options I required. He left for a few minutes and in both cases came back with several cars he could get from other dealers that either came close or were exact matches.

Since I had done my research here on Edmunds and other sites, I knew all the facts and figures on about what I should pay. I thought I got a fair deal in both cases. The dealer then arranged to have the car brought to the store. After I inspected the cars I signed all the papers. Easy.

I would recommend that you make it part of the deal that your purchase is pending a satisfactory inspection or even a final test drive. Then, if there is something wrong with that particular car you can back out.

I think you will not get your rock-bottom price with a dealer trade as there are costs with driving a car from 100 miles away. You will also not have 10 miles on the odo unless you pay to truck it in. Unless you're buying a hot rod or a collectible car that doesn't seem to be a big deal IMO.

You best deal will always be on an in stock vehicle but for me it was worth a little more to get exactly what I wanted.

Good luck and remember to come back and tell us your buying story.

imidazol97

>folks would take cash over cars they won in contests

I took the car. With a creative accountant there's a lot to be done there. 1979 Mustang Pace Car.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh you mean the dealer lowballing the trade and then voluntarily limiting his profit on the resale because he's making far too much money.

Yeah.....right...... :P

What I meant about the new car being MSRP is this: If the price quoted on the new car is MSRP (which is higher than they'd actually sell it for), and then they tell you that the used one with only 50 miles on it is $2K cheaper, IN FACT both cars are probably priced the same....right?

Unless the person asking this question actually hammered out a written deal on BOTH cars, he wouldn't really know what he could have gotten the "new" car for, would he?

isellhondas

We took in a Smart Car last year that had ( I think) 40 miles on it.

The guys mother had bought it as a surprise and he just HATED the car.

I can't blame him either. I wouldn't even drive it but the people that did all said it was just a joke. It attracted bored service customers who wanted to drive it just to joyride. Every person who drove it hated it.

Finally with 150 miles on it, we took it to the auction where it bombed and we lost a couple of grand.

alamocity

Mystery solved. I called the dealership to ask if the vehicle was still on hand and the sales rep said yes and invited me to come in to take a look at it in person. When the sales rep met with me he stated oops, he had looked at the wrong VIN number while we had talked on the phone and vehicle was no longer available however he had a 2008 vehicle that had 10,000 miles on it for the same price as the 2010 model listed. I suspect that the 08 model was the one they meant to post and not the 10 model however I did advise him to next time look at the VIN number a little closer before inviting someone to look at a vehicle.