Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?

houdini1

I was with American Family for about 20 years. The rates gradually kept creeping up until right after we bought a new home (2006) we decided to get a quote thru Farmers.

Long story short, they saved us about $2500. a year on two houses, 4 cars, and an umbrella! We just happened to fit the profile they were looking for.

IMO the longer you are with a company the more they begin to take advantage of you and take your business for granted. It is best to keep them honest by testing the market ever so often. The loyalty factor is usually a one way deal.

tbone_rare

Another factor to consider buying used vs. new are the rebates that come on new vehicles. I had a customer that wanted to buy a pre owned 2009 Aveo we had on our lot. Rebate money on a NEW 2009 Aveo was $3500. There were plenty of new 2009 Aveos in our area.....so the customer got a brand new car instead of a car with 15000 miles on it for only an additional $500.....and he got full factory warranty from day one!

kyfdx

I don't know.... I do check rates, just for kicks.. and, for car insurance, State Farm still wins out...

I will say that their homeowner rates are not as cheap... but, have superior coverage limits..

I hate telling on myself, but I totaled a car in 2002 (my fault.. major ego damage, as well). Not only did I not get dropped, or my rates raised... I didn't even lose my "accident-free" discount. Of course, only one small at-fault claim in the 17 years before that. I harbor no fantasies about what might happen, if my record drastically deteriorates....

But, I've been very happy, up till now..

lrguy44

Walt, if you or any of yours is a veteran, check out USAA. Better rates and I have never had better service. I also bank with them.

kyfdx

Unfortunately, I don't qualify.. I've heard nothing but good things about USAA..

The only other insurance company that people unfailingly compliment is AMICA...

kyfdx

Hey... did your daughter have any luck in Lima?

houdini1

The main thing is if they are taking good care of you. If they are then I would stick around also.

lrguy44

She found a newer one at Carmax in Indy at a not great but good price and bought it. She did take my advice on financing and got a great rate. (USAA). She is happy and that is what ultimately makes a great deal. Her salesman at Carmax said she was the most informed buyer he had ever had. Then she told him her quarterback was in the biz. I do appreciate your help and she and I were both very comfortable with Lima if they had the car that would work best for her.

deltheking

So I have all my and my wife`s cars on Geico for almost 7 years and more now. I have never had any accident or claims. And only 1 speeding ticket-hired a lawyer for that and he took care of it--no points ,,just a penalty fee.. I never knew Geico was not that highly rated. Now I will try State Farm !! :P

But is it worth switching now? Or should I just stick with geico. Any folks with geico experiences?

oregonboy

I don't know if it is still true, but it used to be that Geico would not insure you if you used a radar detector in your car.

Hey, I have used a detector for many years and while I am NOT a flagrant/extreme speeder, it has helped to keep my driving record clean and my insurance rates reasonable.

isellhondas

That some of "those" insurance companies will drop you like a bad habit if youj have a claim or if you get a couple of tickets.

Mr_Shiftright

AMICA seems to get very good ratings on the internet---they beat everybody by a long shot.

In my humble opinion, insurance companies are dangerous because they are really without emotion one way or the other....they don't "love" you if you stay with them 40 years, they don't "hate" you if you make a big claim. They don't pump their fist if they beat you in arbitration or a value pay--off on a total, and they don't hang their heads if you beat them.

They just count the beans at the end of the year and make decisions based on profit and loss and statistics.

It is, I believe, completely cold and impersonal. If you don't pop up on any of their radar screens, well lucky you then.

I've had companies treat me like a King one year and like dirt the next.

Go figure.

isellhondas

I probably hold the record for tickets here. Nothing I'm proud of but in my misspent youth I once amassed something like 12 tickets in a two year period.

Now, some were dismissed in court when the cop didn't show up but, still this wasn't good. Three of those were in the same week and two of those three were in the same day by the same motorcycle cop. Never an accident.

This was back in the "old days" and somehow, my Insurance Company never found out. It was Auto Club of So. Calif.

I did get hauled into the DMV for a hearing and I got my license put on probation for a year. That got my attention and with one exception I have never received a ticket since then. The one exception was when I raced an unmarked cop car in a GTO one night. Long store...funny now but not at the time. The GTO won and the red lights came on! Cop didn't show up in court and a very unhappy judge (we had met before) had to let me go.

Today, the Insurance Co's find out immediatly and I would have been walking.

Out son went through a bout a few years ago when he had his S-2000.

State Frarm was going to drop him but our agent got involved. He was threatened, his rate went up a bit and that was all.

The S-2000 is gone now and hopefully he has learned his lesson like his father did.

Had this been one of the "Co" companies they would have dropped him quickly.

Someday, I'll tell him about the tickets of long ago. Maybe when he's 40?

anish_s

I have received a used Honda Accord as a gift....
How do I get the the title transferred in my name?

I am based in Canada and the car owner in the US.....after I get the title in my name, I will import the car to Canada

Thanks in advance for help

Regards

Mr_Shiftright

That's the smart way to do it. Each US state has its own rules regarding title transfer, but usually it's quite simple--a simple signature and a new form to attach to the application for a new title. The trick is avoiding sales tax. This might be avoided by a) declaring the car a "gift" (and deflecting whatever flak you get for doing that) or b) putting the car on a "non-op", that is, don't register it, just re-title it, and then flatbed it out of state--that's another way to not pay that state's sales tax, which is often more of a use tax, for use on its roads. Check with the local DMV for the rules that apply to you.

I have no idea what happens on the Canadian end, but having all the papers in your name is a very good idea.

boomchek

You'd have to contact the Registrar of Motor Vehicles (www.riv.ca) and you'll find instructions there on how to import a vehicle from the US to Canada.

jhs70

What is the proper procedure for taking a used car on a test drive at a dealership? What do they expect of you? Are there any "legal" hurdles to overcome? I would be really reluctant to leave a copy of my driver's license due to the potential for identity theft, yet is that the standard procedure? I would also NOT want to leave a social security number for any reason... I would also NOT want to leave my own vehicle's keys with someone because then they'll play the "we can't find your keys" game to hold you hostage!! I hear that one used car dealer asked for some kind of deposit while the potential purchaser took the car to his own mechanic for a check up. Is that a common practice or something to avoid at all costs? So I have a lot of questions on how this should work. I'm not trying to be a hard derriere here, just want to know what's ok and what's not. Thanks!

the_big_al

each dealership is different in their policies in taking out a used car. Some policies even vary from customer to customer. Some dealerships will toss you the keys to the car you're interested in and say "make sure you come back and just don't wreck it." Other's will try and take a credit app, your SSN, your first born child and your ticket to heaven.

However, most will only ask for a copy of your driver's license. This is strictly to make sure that you are a legal driver. I have never not had one ask for mine and I have never had a problem. If they start trying to get you to fill out a credit app or ask for SSN before you test drive or anything else other than a DL, and they won't let you take out the car with out all that, then walk away. Some might want the salesman to go with you. That isn't really a problem, but it does hamper your ability to REALLY look over the car. You should also not have to leave your keys to your car either. Why would you have to do that??? If they want those, that raises a HUGE red flag to me and I would walk out.

jhs70

Thanks. There's one BHPH dealership that has a car I'm really interested in - good mileage, good price, but I wouldn't consider it without a thorough assessment from my mechanic. (I've never dealt with BHPH's, and my antenna go up big time just thinking about it!) Trouble is, that guy wants some kind of deposit - $100 I think - before he lets the car go for an inspection. That raised a flag with me because that seemed so unusual. But then, these BHPH places probably pull all kinds of crap because most people won't even question it. I'll probably just offer to leave a copy of my DL with him and if he doesn't like that, I'll walk. No way anyone is getting a credit app or SSN.

grandtotal

I'd buy somewhere else. There has to be another car like the one you are interested in elsewhere.

Kirstie_H

I deleted your post here - one post about the issue in one discussion is sufficient.

boomchek

Here's usually how I've done things at all dealerships that I worked at:

1. Test drive - yes we get a copy of the driver's license for liability and safety purposes. All dealerships should have proper Priavacy policies in place so chances are they won't steal your identity. If you're still not comfortable AFTER the test drive, ask to get the copy back. (If you do end up buying the car, they'll need to have copy on file anyways).

2. After the test drive you'll do some negotiating on the price. Some dealerships may ask you for your SSN now to get you pre approved. We do it all the time to figure out if a car would even fit someone's approval and credit situation. other dealers will ask you for your SSN after the price is negotiated.

3. Once the price is negotiated but the customer is not picking up the car right away we ALWAYS get a depsoit to hold the car and deal in place. No deposit means no deal. If a customer negotiates a price but doesn't want to leave a dpeosit, then it shows that they're not serious and therefore the negotiations didn't mean squat. Keep in mind a deal can be bnegotiated with a "subject to mechanical inspection" clause. In this case, numbers are negotiated, depsoit is left, and the customer can take the vehicle to their mechanic.

So yes, it's normal to take a driver's license copy before a test drive, and yes it's normal to take a deposit from a customer taking a vehicle to their mechanic because at this point a deal is usually negotiated.

jchan2

I recently bought a used car, and while I was shopping I realized that all the places I looked (I shopped mainly at the used-car departments of new car dealerships) had a wide variance in "document fees". I saw anywhere from $149 all the way up to $599 and several years ago when I was buying another car, there was a dealer that had a $600 doc fee.

What goes into that $150-$600? From what I understand it's mainly filing paperwork, and considering that the dealer will charge you for the title and license plate fees anyway, it's just for the clerk's 15 minutes of labor.

I confronted one dealer about this (out-of-state, so I would be doing all the document filing myself once I brought the car home) and I got a non-committal answer and something about 'keeping the lights on' and that it was to pay for the '2 free details we give you each year'.

jayrider

Illinois addressed the problem by passing a law that dealers can charge up to $152 for doc fees. No more. I wouldn't pay anymore. I would also avoid dealers who inflate the fee. They are likely to slip in additional charges throughout the buy process.

houdini1

Their favorite answer on doc fees is that they have to charge everyone the same thing or they can be sued for discrimination.

My answer always stumps them. So you can be charged for discrimination if you don't charge everyone the same thing for the car itself?

imidazol97

When I did my last test drive, the salesman handed me my driver license copy as we got out of the car, returning it just like he said when he asked to make the copy and explained it would be returned.

imidazol97

>Their favorite answer on doc fees is that they have to charge everyone the same thing or they can be sued for discrimination.

My answer was to pull out my copy of the ORC (Ohio revised code) about the documentation fee with the portion about being applicable to a a TIME contract. I had clearly indicated I'd write a check out of an account or bring in cash if that's what they preferred.

imidazol97

>What goes into that $150-$600?

It covers costs that are part of the everyday cost of doing business. But they figured out they could confuse most people into paying extra above what the customer thought they had negotiated.

I told the salesman that I paid $50 the last purchase for fees for delivering the title work to our county and I thought $100 would be fine. I didn't care how he billed it because I was only calculating the total cost.

houdini1

I recently got a voucher from a Lexus dealer in Missouri. It was for $1200. and was the return of doc fees on the purchase of 3 vehicles over a 6 year period.

It was because of a class action lawsuit. Someone had sued them over doc fees and it somehow involved them acting as an attorney without being licensed. I did not ask any questions.

The only stipulation on the $1200. was it had to be spent at the dealership. I have already bought a new set of tires and paid for some service work and still have a credit of about $125. Good tires, but way overpriced. I am not complaining.

imidazol97

>The only stipulation on the $1200. was it had to be spent at the dealership.

Odd. Why wouldn't they return cash. Didn't you pay cash when you paid the doc fees?

OR were you allowed to bring in tires, motor oil, etc., and trade it for the doc fee value?

houdini1

That seems to be the way a lot of these class action lawsuits work. The cold hard cash goes to the attorneys and you get a discount coupon. :mad:

This just came out of the blue and I just happened to be tire shopping anyway, so it worked out OK for me.

snakeweasel

What goes into that $150-$600?

Its mostly profit to the dealership.

it's just for the clerk's 15 minutes of labor.

Last year when we bought our ragtop the F&I guy explained to us that they were tied right into the Secretary of States system and changed over the registration right there and then. So it took a minute (or less) of the F&I guys time. Plus add it the cost of the computer system, software and such, most likely didn't cost more than $10-15 per car.

I got a non-committal answer and something about 'keeping the lights on'

Gee and I though selling cars was supposed to keep the lights on.

Best way around it is to negotiate the total price of the car and let them decide how much for the car and how much for the Doc fee. To me it makes no difference if I paid $20K for the car and $50 for the doc fee or $50 for the car and $20K for the doc fee, its all the same.

jchan2

Yeah at the dealership that gave me the "keep the lights on" answer I always offered $600 below whatever price I wanted to offer because I knew we'd have to add that document fee.

I just figured "what if somebody didn't ask what the document fee was?" and then got hit with it at closing...

It's getting out of hand, though. I've watched the doc fees go up from $50 in 2002 to $250 in 2005 and then now I'm seeing the $600 number.

aslk1209

I took delivery of a 2010 Dodge Challenger on Tuesday evening and drove it for 2 days. I find I don't really like the car and want to get out of the deal. I heard that you have 72 hours to cancel a contract. Is this true? Can I return the car? The documents I signed so far are the Motor Veicle Retail Order Agreement and the Spot Delivery Agreement.

snakeweasel

Well since you took delivery on the car the contract has been executed and therefor cannot be canceled. Or at least cannot be canceled due to buyers remorse.

Now doesn't Dodge have that 60 day test drive? I believe that it is in lieu of other incentives.

So if you don't have that 60 day test drive there are two things you can do. First contact the dealership and see what they can do for you. They may take the car back but don't expect to get back all your money, the car is now used and they won't be able to sell it as new. Just remember that they have no obligation to help you out in this so don't get upset if you think things don't go your way.

The other thing you can do is sell your car yourself.

Either way expect this to cost you some money to get rid of the car.

A third option would be to keep the car, you might change your mind about it after driving it a while.

grandtotal

...you might change your mind about it after driving it a while.

I think that's exactly what has happened. It's a hard lesson to learn, but you don't tend to make that mistake twice.

snakeweasel

Well I don't think two days is really enough time to truly figure out you hate a car, especially if he liked it after a test drive, presuming he took a test drive. This just may be second guessing himself manifesting itself as a dislike for the car. Once he becomes more comfortable with the purchase that could disappear and he might find himself liking the car.

qbrozen

My guess is he filled the tank and found out the real-world gas mileage.
:P

jipster

What don't you like about the car? Sounds more like a money issue than a ride or comfort issue.

boomchek

Snakeweasel's answers are pretty much spot on.

To add to what he said, there are no 72 hour cooling off periods, or cancellation periods when it comes to purchasing a NEW vehicle. The reason being as Snake pointed out, is because a new car, once driven of the lot, and titled, on which the warranty had clock started, cannot be resold as new again.

If you sell it back to a dealer as a trade, or to anyone else, you'll easily lose $4000-$5000 on it. Therefore it would be better to learn to like it.

jmonroe

Sounds more like a money issue than a ride or comfort issue.

I'm late here as usual and that's what I thought when I first read the OP's post but since he/she seems to be a hit and run poster I guess we will never know for sure.

Most people that got in over their head with a purchase, be it a car or a refrigerator would be very reluctant to admit to that. Therefore, there must be something wrong with the item.

So as usual we get to guess and try to keep this thread alive. So, how's the weather in your part of the world. Anyone?

jmonroe

bodi

I am not a US resident but I have to buy a car in Florida soon, I saw these 'add ons' on a Toyota dealer, they seem a bit greedy to me:

Sales Tax, Title, License Fee, Registration Fee, $799 Dealer Fee, Finance Charges, Compliance Fees and RECONDITIONING COST OR CERTIFICATION FEES are additional to the advertised price???
I understand what the title, tag. finance and sales tax are but I am sorry if this is a dumb question but can someone explain what the others are please?
All I really want is a drive away price that includes everything.
Thanks.

tjc78

From what I read on Edmunds and other sites it is quite common in the southeast to have "extras" tacked onto Toyotas. It has to do with the SET, the Toyota distributor in the area. Not sure what you can do, except either buy out of the region or try to negotiate the fees out of the deal.

Another option is to get a quote on an identical vehicle outside the region and take it to a local dealer and have them match it.

jipster

Might be easier to build a car from scratch than try to figure all that dealership stuff out. Just research the car price, add tax, title and lisence... then add another $200 for all the B.S stuff. Present that to the sales dude in a "drive away price"... which is often called an Out the Door price (OTD)

bodi

Many thanks for your replies.
I am trying to work out my budget, to buy a used $23,000 Rav4 v6 or new Rogue for example, what would the title and license roughly cost?
I am coming over November, would new prices be cheaper for 2010 models? Some used prices seem to be pretty high, almost as much as new a year old with 20,000 miles! Over here drive a new car out and 5 minutes later it’s worth 30% less, this doesn’t appear to be the case in the USA or am I missing something?

qbrozen

Yes, you are missing something... the markup. Asking prices are just asking prices. What it sells for is the key.

jipster

Prices will be cheaper in Novemeber for the 2010 models. But, there probably won't be much of a selection in terms of color and options.

Honda and Toyota dealerships are notorious for asking almost new car prices on their one and two year old pre-owned cars. But, that is just an asking price... offer whatever you think the car is worth to you. In some cases it would probably be more benefical to buy new.

isellhondas

Hardly "notorious". They ask these prices because that's what the market is on these.

A two year old Honda, especially a Civic can and will sell for nearly as much as a new one. Some people think saving 1000.00 by buying a used one is a good deal.

Me, I would buy a new one.

tjc78

Me, I would buy a new one.

I just saw a commercial that Honda has .9% financing on new Civics, so I would think if financing a large chunk of the price the new Civic may actually be cheaper in the long run.

bodi

Thanks very much for all of your replies.
As I have mentioned, I am a non resident alien (sorry about that), so can someone tell me a ball park figure for the cost of registration and license please?