Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

1656668707180

Comments

  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    But you have to remember Michigan has high taxes and high unemployment. Without the auto industry things will be really tough. :P Bring back mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. He can fix things.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    72% of Americans don't want to either. That is a lot more than all the UAW put together. Maybe if GM had not have made so many awful cars they would have more product loyalty. Asstro Vans?
    http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/09/autos/opinion_poll/index.htm?cnn=yes
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If the American passenger car market share is 20% which mathmatically is a minority position AND declining: how much lower does the market share got to get till they get,... folks ain't buyin?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    You know, I've always believed OnStar was really a system where they could selectively and remotely fail cars out to get the owner back to the dealer for service...and maybe to buy a new one. :shades:
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    OnStar is the biggest joke around. It works off the cell phone network; who doesn't have a cell phone. Also it is a pay service, who wants to pay soo much for something they will only use when they lock their keys in the car.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Oh, but it'll also call rescue when they're in an accident in the middle of nowhere...oh, that's right, those places usually don't have cell service. :shades:
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Exactly. It doesn't even call 911, some guy from Pakitstan asks you if you are OK and then calls 911. :confuse:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Ops (don't you even hate it when surgeons say that?) we dialed the wrong tow service, a tow missile should reach you shortly, ah perhaps you should make arrangements to get out of the car. :lemon:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    LOL!

    A friend of mine got stranded when his camshaft snapped on his Rental in the middle of Idaho and needless to say, Onstar had zero signal. Just beep/static/nothing.

    Supposedly customer service leaves a lot to be desired as well. If I ever did own a GM vehicle again (yeah right...), I would just let the subscription run out after the trial period.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    OnStar is another cheap ploy for GM to steel money from their customers. It is a subscription service that NEVER gets used. They hope that it gets tagged to the monthly payment and no remembers to cancel it. :lemon:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Let 'em go bankrupt.

    Oh, just not in my backyard.

    Tennessee Senator Is Whistling A New Tune (Auto Observer)

    image
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    That is a good benefit. Toyota is copying it this year with its 'Safety Connect' system that will debut in the new 2010 Prius toward the end of the year.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Actually it is just business as usual. Most folks oxymoronically do not understand that JOB 1 of any senator is to "bring home the bacon. " Ok let the pork jokes begin. Sui....... P P P.....
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    "They took our jerbs!" This guy is such a hypocrite. Yes that plant is efficient, but it is in the middle of now where. GM brass can do what ever they want. Saturns are done and it is obvious that GM pushing to build small cars in Mexico.

    Sorry Corker, but GM does not sell enough Traverses to make you plant worth while.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Toyota has gone so far down hill in my books. The Corolla is stale, the Tundra has had problems since inception (truck bed falling off), and the Camry looks cheap on ugly. If the Camry didn't have its great name a low price they would not be selling so much.

    Ford and Honda, they are the best.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    off my radar completely. They're lame. If they went bankrupt I'd look at the story and go..."wow." That's really big news. Bu-bye. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    in the middle of nowhere

    Most of Tennessee is within a day's drive of half the US population. Good place to flop a factory down.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    off my radar completely. They're lame. If they went bankrupt I'd look at the story and go..."wow." That's really big news. Bu-bye.

    Same for me about GM! GOOD RIDDANCE! :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    While we all probably know what you mean by "in the middle of nowhere", what do you think the bru ha ha would be if they tried to locate it in the middle of "somewhere" like... Boston?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You mean like Jamaica Plain and Roxbury? I dunno - people may decide they like being able to walk to work. But that wouldn't help the D3 too much.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Good point Steve. I didn't think that TN was close to suppliers or had a good rail structure, but I really don't know. Maybe taxes are low there too.
    It seems like a good place IL, IN, OH, GA, NC, MO, CA, etc.
    Don't get me wrong, I have family in Tennessee and like the state, but don't think of it as being an industrial hub. More of a white water rafting and BBQ hub.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Chattanooga was just losing their foundries when I moved there. The tannery closed a year or two after I left. I forget when the ammunition plant closed (that's the site of the new VW plant). A friend of mine made Mudd. :shades:

    But yeah, like most places, it's turned more towards retail and service industries. For example, now Senator Corker sold protected wetlands to Wal-Mart when he was mayor there.

    Good place to learn to paddle for sure - I probably canoed the Hiwassee 100 times after work over 3 years.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Is Whirlpool still made in Knoxville? When I think of Tennessee, I think more of country music and Elvis.
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    Thank you for this. I'm sorry for not being able to thank you sooner but haven't been able to until now. Going through all the posts with all the administration bashing, sympathy for Wagoner and the like I thought I was reading transcripts from Fox and Fox Business News shows. And then I come across your response of what really happened and it was a breathe of fresh air, finally someone that is making common business sense, understood and followed this train wreck from the beginning and left the personal political crap out.

    First, folks don't want the bailouts, stating to let the companies sink and heads should roll. Then the government gives the bailout $$ and they piss it away, present a half-a plan and ask for more, which P.O.s people even more. Then the lender says they're not giving any more money and roles heads, and now all of a sudden that's bad? Again, it's like watching Fox!!

    It's like people truly believe the government wants to be in charge of these companies - they don't!! Also it seems people think the government (or any entity for that matter) is supposed to just dole out billions and then not have a say in what needs to happen or anything. NO partner / investor stays silent when they're pumping lots of cash into an entity that's flushing it away. Sorry, Wagoner had to go!!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    If Obama makes GM go into Bankruptcy, he is smart. If not, he will be sorry.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Chattanooga is nice. Good aquarium too.
    You would think between taxes and the infrastructure from the old factories, Tennessee would be a good place to build cars.
    I know that Detroit and Michigan have high taxes. I also have heard their politicians complain of brain drain.
    Who else has factories there? Toyota? Nissan?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    Beautiful show of hypocrisy among our legislators that's so apparent this year, indeed.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Elvis and the Opry are big industries. :shades:

    Then you have stuff like FedEx.

    Don't know about Whirlpool. There used to be a big "stove" company in Cleveland iirc that made all sorts of appliances.

    And of course Nissan North America is headquartered in Nashville now.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Surprise surprise!! Old news however....

    link title
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    You misunderstand the business implications what you posted.

    Your assertion about the Tundra is false. But don't let facts and accuracy get in the way of a good solid misconception. Carry on.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."You mean like Jamaica Plain and Roxbury? I dunno - people may decide they like being able to walk to work. But that wouldn't help the D3 too much. "...

    Well I'd guess you'd get every group you never even heard of: say like, groups dedicated against everything anyone is for and meeting every leap year, whether they need to or.... not. ;). I motion we not not meet. :blush:
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    And the government should set the rules of the game fairly for all, and not decide who should get $300 when they "Pass Go". Government should not play favorites, allowing people and organizations to fail and succeed, based on their actions.
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    No, Tundras were having the beds sheered looses. Steve can probably back me up with info on this. Just doing a quick search I found this on it with video. Also I am not alone in my Camry assessment, Edmunds ranked it dead last compared to the Altima, Malibu, and Accord.
    http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/08/22/all-known-2007-toyota-tundra-p- roblems/
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    Steve, back me up. Didn't Toyota have problems with Tundra truck beds? I red somewhere that the screws they used were too small. :confuse:
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG9l1F0Q

    I know my stuff. I actually read Edmund's articles. And if I know anything, it is that no car company is perfect and that non of them deserve tax payer money. Especially Chrysler. :lemon:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Most of Tennessee is within a day's drive of half the US population.

    ...and within a day's flight of the entire world!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    If Obama makes GM go into Bankruptcy, he is smart. If not, he will be sorry.

    IMHO he made the write choice. Don't bail them out without restrictions, put the screws to them, but ultimately it is GM's, the UAW's, and the bondholder's decision whether they want to swallow the tough medicine of their own accord or whether they would like the courts to force it down their throats. Not BO's choice at all. Now the unions REALLY have some skin in the game -- and they DO NOT like that!
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    A buddy of mine has had his Tundra for well over a year now, he actually got one of the first ones off the lots. It has been very reliable and hasn't had much trouble at all. I think the only problem he had was the Tailgate which wasn't buckled, but the weld was split on one of the sides. Other than that, it runs great and is his DD.

    BTW, this kid was a service mgr for a B/P/GMC dealer in NH and previously owned not 1, but 2 GMC Sierras before his Tundra. The first one was an official :lemon: . Rear Axle replaced, front steering clunk, Transmission and a host of other things went wrong (Must've been a Friday build). Instead of having it bought back, he traded it on a new one figuring things would be better and he just was unlucky.

    Not so. The second one (while not as many problems) was far from reliable, even leaving him stranded, then calling me to come rescue him from the side of 495 :D . The following weekend I went with him shopping where we drove the new Tundra and consequentally, he bought his current ride.

    This kid was a diehard GM owner who had full reign over the service dept, with an entire crew at his disposal, parts at wholesale and it's own service bay for his truck to occupy while being fixed.

    And yet, he defected to Toyota and now owns the Tundra and a Highlander which replaced his POS pickup and his wifes 10 mpg Suburban. :shades:
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >Edmunds ranked it dead last compared to the Altima, Malibu, and Accord.

    Which essentially backs up my assertion that Toyota is following GMs business model, just that they were doing it better. But now with the laurels resting on it's heads, it is going to go where GM went once before.....
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I think that is how VW plans to "sneak" into the US market. It admits to having (JUST-my sic) 2% of market share It ALREADY is #3 world wide. A real "snoozer" of an article, but it really says in black and white VW is targeting 300% growth !!!???? (aka 43% per year average) It is HERE in the USA market!?

    ..."Volkswagen holds only 2% of the U.S. market. VW officials have said the company intends to more than triple its U.S. sales to 1 million by 2018."...

    (link post msg # 3436)

    Interesting while the big four are in a literal free fall with 20 % market share and RAPIDLY declining? OEM's looking to take the place of forgotten oem's like Studebaker, Parkard, etc. Models going the way of Edsel, Aztec, etc.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Not BO's choice at all.

    Well, OK. :blush:

    The UAW has been largely unwilling to negotiate with GM until it sees what concessions will be made by bondholders and others. GM realizes it needs to offer the UAW more equity in exchange for wage and benefit concessions if the company is restructured out of court, one person familiar with the matter said.

    The standoff between bondholders and the UAW underscores the difficulty surrounding GM's attempt to reorganize without the coercion of bankruptcy. Key players in the Obama administration are pointing to the lack of progress as a reason that bankruptcy could be unavoidable.

    Mr. Obama's auto task force has made it "crystal clear" that its members think a managed, or "prepackaged," bankruptcy is GM's best option, said to people familiar with the matter, but it is letting GM pursue the out-of-court option for now.


    So, let's see if all of the parties can cordially agree to keep it out of court. BO knows the end game because he made the check-mate move.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Sorry but back to school for reading comprehension. In that link you posted there were 7 'problems' noted but there was nothing about beds sheering away. Most of the issues in that link were ultra minor or ficticious. As I said originally don't let accuracy or lack of facts get in the way of a strongly held misconception.

    Your point about the Camry again misunderstands the whole business case for the Camry and the Corolla. You simply don't understand the 'why'. Here's the proof. Despite Edmunds authoritative analysis the US buying public still makes the Camry the No 1 selling auto in the country - for over a decade. The Corolla is fast closing in.

    Now you have to ask yourself...why is it that this disconnect occurs between the auto enthusiast sites and the buying public? Here's a hint: it's intentional. That's what you misunderstand.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm not up on my trucks too much. All I remember were frame problems with Tacos and there was either a recall or warranty extension. Some got so rusty they broke in half.

    Toyota Tacoma 2004 and Earlier Frame Problem
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    BO knows the end game because he made the check-mate move.

    I'll go with that statement. :P
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I'll go with that statement.

    He who directs the team makes all the moves. Without his decision, the bleeding would go on unabated! Effectively, he has decided "This ends now." The Team might not know how to build cars but I am sure they know how to cut the losses and end the games...errr, GM Planning/UAW Greed, so the boss doesn't look even worse than Wagoner.

    The costs to liquidate the Bad Company will be far less than waiting for the "Plan" to unfold ala typical GM/C BS style.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dbostondriverdbostondriver Member Posts: 559
    To be honest, the truck bed sheering off is something I heard on NPR about a year ago. It is not that the Tundra is bad, it is just not gods gift to trucks.

    Also they Camry is not a bad car either, but it is no longer the leader in quality, style handling, reliability, etc. Toyota is still the greatest car company around and makes great products. Their products are just are not the best.

    Even Consumer Reports took them down a notch.
    Accord 4cyl got an 88
    Altima 4cyl got an 85
    Camry 4cyl got a 77
    Malibu 4cyl got a 74

    And you have to admit, while the Corolla is a great car, it doesn't have the styling or engineering of the Mazda3, Honda Civic, or Subaru Impreza.
  • gs42gs42 Member Posts: 54
    I think that would be that many MORE units than are currently sold since current sales are a part of the loss...it is worse than it appears.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    What you might have heard on NPR last year was fallacious because no such situation exists or has existed. What you likely did hear was one of the domestics saying that the bolt extended up into the bed so at some point in 10 or 15 years they might rust away. An asteroid might hit one also and the Tundra will not be protected from that event.

    All your comments on the Camry and Corolla still miss the 'Why'. What you are misunderstanding is that all of these comparo's are beauty pagaents. Nothing more. The only metric that counts is how many are sold and how much profit is made from them.

    In this regard both the Camry and the Corolla are the leaders of the entire NA auto industry. This is business, not a beauty pagaent. It's only about money, that's all that counts. The one with the biggest profit at the end of the year is the winner.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    GM did have a plant in Framingham, which, while not in Boston, is still within the I-495 loop.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The one with the biggest profit at the end of the year is the winner.

    That makes VW the Winner. They also do not have cars stacked up on the docks rusting away like Toyota. They may be down about 16%. That is much better than 30% or 50%. I think Toyota has fallen into the same trap as GM. They are playing the numbers game. Selling the most is not always the most profitable. I expect to see a lot more CamCors on the rental lots this year.
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.