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Comments
Cash for Clunkers is being finalized. That'll be a huge incentive for buyers to return to the market.
Making these two disappear is a lot trickier.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090402/BUSINESS01/904020346/1210/BUSINESS/Cash-fo- - r-clunkers+plan+runs+into+competing+legislation
I personally am for it, but don't thing that it should be limited to domestic brands as foreign companies make the most fuel efficient cars (Jetta TDI, Insight, Prius) Also any trade in should be for a more fuel efficient car. Example; you can't trade a 1999 Impala for a GMC Sierra.
Yeah, because GM doesn't have enough brands as it is. :shades:
Jeep MIGHT go to Ford if they can scrounge the money, though Honda might take a stab at it, and get an instant set of body-on-frame platforms (which they've never had before). Tata has Rover, Toyota and Nissan already have their own off-road setups and don't need Jeep. Mitsu might want it, but I doubt Mitsu could afford it.
Nissan will want the Ram line so they don't have to start building Titans themselves again. Toyota is still stuck with the Tundra, and don't seem to be giving up on it. No one else is even interested in getting into the full-size pickup business.
Volkswagen will want to keep selling minivans and try to grab that line..Hyundai has their own, as do Toyota and Honda, and no one else bothers with minivans.
Mitsu and Hyundai will battle for the engine designs, since the blocks are already produced under alliance between the three, and it'd be a real cheap bolt-on to their existing stuff. Mitsu is hurting too much, so Hyundai will come up with the better end of the deal. No one else will want them because everyone but Suzuki already has better engine designs.
That pretty much takes care of the valuable stuff. Challenger will be orphaned, because GM and Ford already have those slots filled, and no one else is interested in building muscle cars. Someone interested in a police cruiser to sell might grab the Charger/300 series (GM might use it to replace the Impala...if THEY don't go BK). I don't see anything else worth having out of Chrysler.
Slight problem with that. I'm buying a house instead. :shades:
Then again, my car is an 04 and has several good years and highway miles ahead of it. And it'll be paid for once the government pays me $8k for finding a place to live. :P
Perhaps the foreign automakers who have assembly plants in America would be stipulated. This is an economic boost for these american plant workers as well.
Should have let them fail and given the C and WF the bailout funds without the toxicity.
Regards,
OW
You think so.......
http://market-ticker.org/archives/921-GM-Bankrupt,-UNLESS.....html
Greed is not just in the politics or in corporate America. I think we all had a hand in this mess.
With the job market as dismal as it is and still a bunch of uncertainty in when the economy may turn around, do we really need the government encouraging people to buy new cars? many people are already overextended. The last thing we need is more people with a $15,000-$20,000 loan.
The Government decided to throw billions at the BIG THREE. What good did that do if noone can afford to buy the new manufactured vehicles. Their argument was they needed to stimulate spending. While you and I seem to agree that this strategy may be questionable, I still think that if the billions are going to the Companies from future tax sources then why not directly stimulate the consumption of the subsidized product by placing a percentage of that freebee money into the hands of those paying for the subsidy. Didn't they do that with HOME GRANT MONEY. The truth is, the whole mess stinks to high heaven...and the rich get richer, comments?
Not sure about the rich betting richer. Everyone is getting royally screwed with this recession.
To save the company from bankruptcy where the bondholders, including AIG which holds the Congress' pension, from losing money by having their value drop to zero in a bankruptcy. Congressfolk know which side the bread is buttered on.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The economists tell us the true cost of this episode of unparalled greeed will be the repayment of all this printed paper debt. And we know who pays the bulk of the taxes. Just listen to the squealing from the folks who will pay tax on over $250,000 of income
I agree that consumer subsidies are not desirable options, I just don't understand throwing billions at GM et al to supposedly build product that none can afford. It was mentioned that 17M units in circulation.
Why not the outrage over house subsidies?
As Lou Dobbs likes to say, "Why aren't these people in jail"(Create jobs for jailers)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30055730/page/2/
In fact new car sales have run about 15-16 MM for the last several years.
Used car sales generally run twice that number at about 30 MM annually.
In the United States we have about 250 MM 'eligible' drivers ( including those in NYC, Chi, Boston and other places that will never own a vehicle ).
In the United States we have about 250 MM vehicles on the road today.
The CEO of GM did nothing wrong legally but he was 'sent to jail' for being a business criminal ( he lost his job ). This is how it should be.
Of course. And this is why so many are complaining. They thought that once you get beyond a certain level, you are "above the law" as far as business and economics are concerned (where, in the real world, if you do a rotten job you get fired). Waggoner thought he was in that club. And it took a U.S. President to fire the guy for doing a rotten job because no one else would...which is a scary thought in so many dimensions (we don't want the government to be running businesses, and we DO want the BUSINESSES to start running themselves like businesses!)
GM's culture and inept board of directors kept him employed. Name another company that would have kept this failure around.
Only good thing Wagoner did was push for the ZR1. To bad he could have them upgrade the steering wheel from the same one on the Cobalt. :lemon:
Don't forget, it was the last administration that gave GM and Chrysler the last check. Not congress or Obama.
GM and Wagoner will be studied by business students for years as the classic case of what not to do.
That was a courtesy I would not have given Obama. It gave him time to weigh the situation to take care of his UAW voters. He still has done nothing after 6 months from the first handout to GM and C.
I mean, congress did vote against that, and we vote for congress.
My thoughts exactly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
By now, the new entity would be as follows:
GM - Chevy, Cadillac - Jeep, Chrysler Minivans would be part of Chevy.
Ford - On it's own. Good job.
Regards,
OW
GM would be in Chapter 11. End of story.
I also like the gas guzzler incentive. Any car before 2001 traded in is eligible for a tax credit if you buy a more fuel efficient car. Run the plan till the end of the year.
I only hope the right things will be done with further subsidy of the US auto industry decimated by the imports through the past 15 years. I hope the political Chicagolike games won't take precedence over someone, someone in DC actually doing the right thing. Loans are fine. Gifts are fine. As long as the UAW isn't the beneficiary of political payback like ACORN is being, looking forward to the next elections.
Myself I have little hope that the DC free of lobbyists and tax cheats in the government rolls we were promised would be the DC we get; we don't have it yet, certainly. But what needs to be done is a full bankruptcy to eliminate all contracts with UAW and let the GM start over. The problem is that bond holders, including AIG who holds the pensions for Congress I heard, would be hurt by a true bankruptcy. In a government controlled situation emulating bankruptcy the bondholders, including AIG, would be benefitted financially and even enriched.
I'm in favor of continuing to turn GM around. Chrysler? I'm not sure it should be. It's held by a hedge fund which is the group that ran the market down with short-selling under the new rules that allowed it and others to bring doom and gloom to the economy for several months. The lack of spending due to the psychological depression of many of the US people has slowed the recovery.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would go back further to include all cars, maybe 1998. Cars from 1998-2001 must be EPA high fuel use models and that could be a lots of cars and trucks. Car must be traded for US brand car. Eligibility will be determined by registered autos list as of date certain so that people don't go out and take a clunker, register it in their name, and go trade it in. Also people receiving subsidy (welfare) will not be eligible--only those with a real job.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Agreed. No talk, just action. These guys are wasting our money with their mouths. Incent sales and back the environmental rhetoric with real targeted spendin and save money from bailout nation disease.
Clueless to say the least. Now that "Cash for Clunkers" is being spun, Congress will get behind it instead of rolling it into the budget in the first place. Now it will cost more as a stand-alone bill. The usual. The more political, the more it costs.
Regards,
OW
The GM Treatment: A Model For Other Bailouts (US News)
Idle Chat: What Should Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz Do Now?
Then why does Nardelli still have HIS job? For another 25 days or so anyway...
But as it would be a tax-credit, people would have to poney up cash up front. They would get a rebate or pay less taxes when filing in '10.
And Obama has only been in office for 70 days, name one president that has done more in that time.
> for 70 days, name one president that has done more in that time.
But I honestly can't think of a president in my lifetime who has done more to the country so fast.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Instead of having the testicular fortitude to enable Natural Economics play, he went for the no pain, quick answer solutions. That it increases the national debt to be burdend by our great grandchildren is not to be admired.
He is not, nor never has been, a businessman, only a socialistic politician.
I suppose that isn't surprising...Waggoner wasn't doing his job right, the board wasn't doing their job right...because of this executive management wasn't doing their job right, and right on down the chain. Which is why GM is going bankrupt.
The scary thing is we have a socialist-leaning president having to tell the right-wing free-marketers how to do their job (meaning if someone sucks at their job, fire him). And he's right, which should REALLY wake up corporate boardrooms. Not that it will wake their ultra-complacent toupee-insulated brains, but it should.
I mean think about it. The UAW is the 800# gorilla (camouflaged) in all of this and there is absolutely no talk of firing or even union de certifications !!!! Makes the case as far as I am concerned. Even the repubs even when they had the Congressional and executive majorities, whom would hardly be on the UAW's LOVE list didn't mess with them. So on the other hand, it takes a demo like Obama with an overwhelming demo Congress, to really tell them the truth which has been known by all for decades !!! The dirt swepted under the rug is now a mountain. I mean in the worst case, what is the UAW going to do?... Vote republican??
I don't think it would be nearly reorganized. Delphi filed for C11 in 2005. They are still flailing in BK court and have the UAW noose around their neck.
The banks are the biggest contributors. Geithnher goes to the same county club as all the bank crooks.
Don't sweat Nardelli, he is gone 25 days. Good riddens.
I love it how the unions are the cause of everything from bad breath to the End of Days, heh. :shades:
Anyway, no one's going to fire UAW leadership. Not when they have shown that they're willing to deal and make concessions, like they did with Ford...you know, that car company that didn't need a bailout? They saw Ford could be viable long-term, made a deal with them so they'll be involved long term, and derive benefits from Ford long term. Makes sense to me.
With GM, the UAW needs to make additional concessions, yes. But so do the bondholders and everyone else, and right now they're not budging. If they won't, why should the UAW? All parties need to make concessions. None are willing, primarily because none think GM will be viable, so they're all protecting their own stakes, so they can get as much as possible in some possible future liquidation. From each one of their perspectives that makes perfect sense. So I don't see the problem.
Comes with the territory of being the 800# gorilla. They could do the Harry Truman, if they do not like it !! They have been riding free for way too long.
It is more than obvious you don''t see the problem, aka long term strategy but neither does the American public. They inked the "do or die deal with Ford" and the rest of the drama is being acted /scammed out with GM and Chysler. Smart if they get folks to buy the Hollywood in it !? SOS just DD.