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What about VW TDI engine?

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  • joffficerjoffficer Member Posts: 169
    I swung by the local VW dealer today... no TDI Golf GL 2door TDI's with 5spd to be found. Am I asking to much? I don't want anymore than the standard equipment (seems well equiped all ready).

    I guess I won't use the free jet fuel if I get one ;)
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    are indeed hard to find, and sell for nearly MSRP when you can find them. I'm in MA, and can locate some Jettas, and the occasional Golf, but not equipped as I would prefer. Tough market all of a sudden.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    In my search, I noticed most dealers has between 2 and 10 or so TDI's total, so finding the model, body style, and equipment level that you are looking for can be a challenge. What I did was search for every dealer within a 50 mile radius of my city, and then went to each website and looked at their inventory. Saves a lot of time, although their descriptions are rather minimal. I was able to find exactly what I was looking for except for color at the closest one, believe it or not. Jetta 5-speed GLS with Monsoon & Cold Weather. Ideally I would have gotten Blue Lagoon, but I like Baltic Green too. :-)
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    There is dealer near Boston that is selling 2002 TDI at $1150 under invoice and 2003 at $100 over. They have at least 9 2002 Golf. It is not uncommon for a VW dealer not to have the exact car you want but they can usually get one. Fair price is between invoice and MSRP in my opinion. There is $1250 cash to dealer incentive on all 2002 TDI so if you can find one the prices are the best in 3 years. If you do a search for TDI in google you will find a helpful webpage that can answer your TDI questions.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Which dealer? There are only three small ones near me.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    To save some trouble, that page would be:

    http://www.tdiclub.com


    I hear everything and more about TDIs is there. Never checked it out myself though...

  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    the only reason I did not post the link was that one of the hosts has deleted my posts because you can not post the link to a automotive site that has a chat forum.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    me too

    Got a mildly threatening email to go with it.
  • joffficerjoffficer Member Posts: 169
    I just went to the biodiesel site, and they don't list anywhere for PA or NJ. Does anyone know if it's sold anywhere in NJ (near Philly)? Will VW void their warranty if it's used?
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    There used to be a place in Philly where you can get Bio...but now it's reserved only for fleet sales.


    We did have a discussion about VWoA warranties with B100 or B20 use, on that specific site a while back. Basically, (and I added more fuel to the flame, by calling VWoA myself)...if the problem was caused by Biodiesel...kiss your warranty goodbye. THe reason I got from VWoA, which is plausible, is the lack of quality control standards in the US, even though there is a ASTM standard for biodiesel, both B100 and B20. Even with the ASTM standard, no one is enforcing it. In germany, for example, there's only about 3 suppliers of biodiesel, and they are federally regulated, TUV standards or something for quality control, thus VWaG supports biodiesel there. Another example is there were people who got bad batches of "yellow brand" biodiesel and had problems with it. It was a backyard operation, which whatever biodiesel the guy had leftover (from farming equipment) he sold. Some got a bad batch, others didn't.


    There are people on that site, and others around the country who make Biodiesel themselves and used it, successfully. If you do a search on the Sierra Club, there was a member who did a demonstration at an Earth Day on making your own Biodiesel, for her Golf TDI.


    If you're not an apartment dweller like I am, and have a garage, you can get B100 delivered to your home like natescape.


    http://www.worldenergy.net

  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    $47 for a fuel filter at my local dealership


    When the next 20,000 miles rolls around...I'm buying it online and saving about $20 for filter.


    Places like


    http://www.vwparts.com

    http://www.dieselgeek.com

    Though it won't be packaged in VWaG packaging....

  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I have a 2002 1.8T, and seeing everyone's mileage, I sometimes wish I had bought the TDI. I drive ~100 miles daily, so it would have definitely helped. That's what I get for being so power hungry... :(
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    There isn't a better commuter car on the road than the TDI. It's fun and efficient as all heck. And nothing quite like going 600-700 miles between fill-ups (or, in the case of us Passat owners, 800+ miles).

    Throw in a chip, and you could almost close your eyes and think you were in a 1.8T. Except, of course, that the fuel meter drops much slower... ;)
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Where in MA can you buy biodiesel? Is it readily available? A work buddy has ordered a TDI Jetta, and I'm considering a TDI Golf. (Actually, I'm convinced, but still tugging the wife into my way of thinking...)

    Also, what's the price compared to regular diesel?
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    There is only one place that I know of in Mass that you can get bio, its B20 (20% bio, 80% DieselOne, which is premium diesel), and its located in Chelsea. The price when I went about a month ago was 1.599, which is about $0.20 higher than I usually pay at the Hess and Shell that I fill up at.
  • geoffd1geoffd1 Member Posts: 21
    You will save money up front, but will have to replace your injectors, etc., fairly quickly. Jet fuel lacks the lubricity the engine needs.

    The classic problem in boat engines with thin fuel is burning up fuel pumps. Cruising sailboats in the Carribean often end up getting fuel that's quite a bit thinner than diesel. The known fix is to add in some 2 cycle outboard motor oil. I'm not sure why anybody would want to burn jet fuel. Anyplace I've ever been it's taxed like crazy. I run marine diesel in my boat and I pay the same as I pay for my home heating oil since there's no tax on it.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    reports dissapointing gas mileage in a week of mixed driving - 34 or so mpg. What has been the real-world experience of some of the owners, eh? Are their results typical?
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    I don't know what was wrong with their car, but it must have been something, unless they were driving with their foot to the floor at all times. I have a 5-speed, so my gas mileage should be ~5 mpg higher, but even with that adjustment I do better. My average mileage has been 46. My worst was 42, and my best was yesterday when I filled up, 51 mpg!!

    I don't try very hard to get good mileage, I frequently use the AC, I tend to go 75-80 mph on my way to work, and frequently launch myself pretty hard out of the many tollbooths that I unfortunately pass through every day.
  • mattalkimattalki Member Posts: 2
    I've been trying to figure out why Edmunds always gets poor mileage in the TDI. Their long term test beetle should have gotten well over 40 MPG the entire time they had it. This new review is infuritating, since they chose to evaluate an automatic tranny. They sap power and mileage from these engines. I've got a 5-speed Golf, and have been getting 46-48 MPG. When it was new, it didn't do quite as well as it does now, but it still got 42-44. And I drive the car fairly hard. They've gotta be doing something wrong, or they may figure mileage incorrectly.

    Plus, they always talk about how diesels are polluters without doing any research on the actual numbers. The TDI engine pollutes less overall than an equivalent gasoline engine. The only thing the US needs to decrease diesel emmisions overall is cleaner fuel.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    50-54 mpg, which includes about 10 miles of daily stop and go driving, and the rest of my commute (60 miles) highway doing 70-80 mph. 5-speed manual.

    It fails to mention that Europe offers 50 ppm sulfur diesel fuel, whereas we're hovering around 500 ppm. Germany is going to 10 ppm in the near future, and Sweden already has 10 ppm.

    So who's tighter in emissions? Not the US.

    Also biodiesel is also available in Europe, decreasing emission further.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    46 mpg average in my 5spd Jetta Wagon TDI over 6800 miles. I expect the mileage to improve as the car breaks in more. 41 mpg average over 16,700 miles in my Golf TDI automatic. The last six thousand miles averaged 43 mpg. I have no idea how you can drive the TDI in such a manner as to get 32 mpg like Edmunds did. I drive my cars with respect and do not beat on them but I do drive them aggressively. People who tow boats and other trailers with their TDI still get in high 30's and low 40's mpg. There is a problem with the car, the drivers or the person who calculated the mileage on the Edmunds review in order to get 32 mpg. Most of the driving with my TDI's has been my commute to work which is 50 miles per day and a mix of 70 mph interstate and stop and go city driving.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I drive pretty aggressively as well in my car. I have a 1.8T Jetta Tiptronic. I usually average 23-25mpg in it, with mostly highway driving. That seems low to me, but I don't know what would cause it.

    Also, I rented an Echo for one day a couple of months ago. Used AC the entire time, drove pretty fast. I only drove 100 miles, but used 4 gallons of fuel (25mpg average). If I had ran a whole tank, perhaps I would have gotten better results, I don't know. But it seemed to me the mileage still would have been higher.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    "There is a problem with the car, the drivers or the person who calculated the mileage on the Edmunds review in order to get 32 mpg."

    You suppose maybe they used gasoline in the TDI?...

    ;^)
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    I have consistently gotten in the 40s. Except for my very first tank (where I think I filled up wrong at a truck pump), I've never dipped below 40 and have never broken 48.


    The biggest issue with test drives that either kill MPG or complain that the car is slow is that they drive the car wrong. If the driver shifts at 3500 (max), then they'll get good MPG and excellent drivability.


    As for biodiesel, I get 55-gallon drums of b100 shipped to my house from Burke Oil (the folks who run the b20 station in Chelsea). There are lots of details about Burke, biodiesel, and a fairly active biodiesel group at http://www.biodieselnow.com (mods, feel free to remove the link if you so desire).


    The cost for b100 delivered, with all taxes, is a hair under $3/gallon. If that's too expensive, you could get the 50 gallons and run a lower percentage (blend your own b100 into regular and run b20, b50, whatever).

  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Thanks Nate.
  • jsstoverjsstover Member Posts: 40
    just to add my two cents...I usually run 600 miles or more on a tank. And that's before the low fuel level indicator comes on. I am very glad that I traded my glx jetta in for this.

    I only have a couple thousand miles on her so far but have noticed that ever so slightly the mpg's are getting better as the engine breaks in.
  • ekkoh99ekkoh99 Member Posts: 17
    The TDI is a great engine. They should do a long term reivew on a TDI car with a manual transmission.

    Gasoline emissions can cause cancer too.

    If the US bans diesel cars and trucks and tractors, it will make delivery and productions of goods and people very expensive.

    She did not mention BIODIESEL. A renewable resource.

    Some people say that CO2 contributes more to greenhouse effects than nitrogen oxides.

    There are new particulate traps and emissions controllers that greatly reduce the NO and particulate matter.

    Hybrids cost more and cost more per mile because of the electric motor. they also have emissions, that can cause cancer.
    Overall, L. Kim review seemed bias.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Nobody in the TDIclub could figure out how the reviewer got such lousy mileage. This was a stock TDI motor, where as there are people with lead feet, chipped, uprated injectors, etc. that got better mileage with an automatic.

    Though one thing we know, the mileage gets better after about 10,000 miles.
  • mattalkimattalki Member Posts: 2
    Hey ekkoh99, the edmunds staffers already did a long term test drive of a New Beetle TDI, and they got lousy mileage in that too. That's why I'm wondering what they do incorrectly. There should be no way to even get below 40 MPG with a TDI engine and a 5-speed. What stinks is a lot of people read their reviews, and with their poor mileage figures, a lot of people are going to think that the TDI's don't really get the excellent mileage that they do.

    It's really sad.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    In the 10 Septempber edition of the WSJ there is an article about the VW TDI and the enthusiasts that own them. Here is a link to the article http://www.dieselforum.org/inthenews/WSJ_091002.html
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    Those are a bunch of folks from that other TDI site. ;)

    I know Erik, whom the quote.
  • mpg5mpg5 Member Posts: 68
    i like the 4 door golf better (looks, and practical-i have kids), but i think i want the 1.8t powerband. i have read tdiclub and many edmunds forums, and i'm leaning toward the gti (silverstone gray another plus in gti column), but chipped tdi with approx 45mpg sounds like a great setup. i thought gti was built in germany? or is it built in brazil. what of the tdi golf? mexico? should this be a major concern?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Get the TDI Golf and chip it. Golf is built in Brazil and GTI is built in Brazil. Brazil, Mexico, Germany you are going to get the same quality in a VW. The problems that VW experience are component problems and not build quality problems (New Beetle excluded). With the warranty now at 5 years and the window regulator problem fixed it is a good time to get a Golf or GTI.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    The Jetta sedan is assembled in Mexico

    The Jetta wagon is assembled in Germany
  • mpg5mpg5 Member Posts: 68
    any chance at finding a 2002? i'm on long island. trend motors maybe? are there any changes/advantages to a 2003?
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    www.trendmotors.com

    ask for Glen Hagen
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The GL models have power windows for 2003 and manual windows for 2002. Cold weather package is optional for GL in 2003 and not 2002. GLS has standard alloy wheels and sunroof in 2003 and optional in 2002. The price of 2003's are a couple hunded cheaper than comparable 2002's. There was a $1250 dealer cash incentive on nearly all 2002 VW's recently but I think it is no longer available. Best deals I ever saw on TDI's since 1996 when that incentive was available.
    There are some 2002's available though I am not sure what advantage exists for them.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    South Shore VW in Boston, MA has some 2002 TDI inventory and I know they will go $1150 under invoice on 2002 Golf. May be worth the trip. I think Ken is their internet salesperson.
  • mpg5mpg5 Member Posts: 68
    what are the specs on timing belt change on 2002 golf tdi's? is grey cloth interior the velour type that everyone complains about as being a lint magnet? should i be concerned? i can buy golf gls lux/monsoon for 17840. sounds like a great px. should i be concerned buying from nj and going to long island dealer for service?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The timing belt on 2002 is 80,000 miles automatic or manual. The timing belt on 2003 is 100,000 automatic or manual and all the parts on the 2003 are the same part numbers as on the 2002. Cloth on the GL in not known as a lint magnet. The velour interior on the GLS which is the only cloth available on the GLS is the one that people complain about as lint magnet. I have two TDI's both with black velour and yes they do attract lint. It cleans off but you have to do it weekly to keep up with it. As long as the dealer where you service a TDI is good then it does not matter where you buy your car.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I find the leather seats more comfortable because of the lumbar adjustment. I think the "standard" lumbar position is too prominent, it is for me anyway. Also nice having heated seats on cold mornings. :)
  • jeff186jeff186 Member Posts: 95
    Any available for better fuel economy?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    SpeedTuningusa.com
    goapr.com
    upsolute.com

    They all provide chips that increase power, fuel economy, and also effectively void your warranty. :)
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    and the puff of black smoke when you initially slam the throttle
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    ... unless you're running your car on biodiesel... ;)
  • m9431m9431 Member Posts: 38
    Where can I buy decent oil and fuel filters on-line for my '02 TDi? Anything special about changing the oil filter? (Torque, seals, special tools, etc.?)

    Thanks in advance!
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    I dont know about the fuel filter, but you can get the oil filter online at www.parts4vws.com, probably the fuel filter as well. You will want to find an oil filter socket to take the cover off, its 76mm 14-flute. I found this at Autozone for like $3.00, I believe it was type B. The great part about these filters is that they just drop in, its a bit less messy than the standard type. The filter does come with two gaskets, one large and one small, that go on the filter cap.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Go to www.google.com and type in TDI Enthusiast. You will find an excellent resource that will answer all your TDI questions. Also, www.vwparts.com is a good source for VW parts at a discount as is www.dieselgeek.com.
  • m9431m9431 Member Posts: 38
    Thanks for the advice on the oil filter... I took my TDI back to the dealer for the 5k oil change (BTW, I was previously warned several times NOT to even think about changing the oil before 5k). The cost with synthetic oil was $70 for the 5k check--lotsa loot. They used Castrol 15W40 oil which, according to the label on the oil can is VW-approved for TDI. I wonder how this Castrol oil compares to Mobil 15W40 Delvac. Speaking of Delvac, I couldn't find anywhere to purchase it on-line. I did find a one gallon can at a truckstop about 40 miles away for about $30. I wish I could find the Delvac on-line--and in 1 quart cans. Any ideas? I really like my TDI and want to take care of it, especially as I drive 100 miles a day.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    First of all, the Delvac1 is 5w-40, which is the actual VW recommended weight. Unfortunately, Delvac does not come in quart containers, only gallons, so if you need a quart, you would be best advised to settle for a quart of Shell Rotella T. As far as I know, the only place that has Delvac online is www.avlube.com, for somewhere around $80/4 gallon case plus shipping.

    On a side note, it never ceases to amaze me how much the dealers rip us off for a service. They definitely did not earn that $70.

    Mopar: I like that approach to finding information! :-)
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