Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
Besides, Americans sell, service, paint, ship, reupholster, wash, and make/ sell parts for all foreign cars. I'd guess that for every foreign car, there are perhaps a dozen associated industries/occupations based right here in the USA that live off them.
Think about it. You buy a new Toyota.
American salesperson makes the commission
American dealership gets the business
Car wash washes it
Kragen/Autozone sells you filters, spark plugs, etc, made in USA
Truckers ship the car from ports
Technicians service it for you
American industries make your car cover, dog barrier, wind deflectors---accessories
New tires from USA
People who service the repair industry (towels, uniforms, lubricants)
Fix-a-Dent mobile shops
Car magazine employees, newsstands
Edmunds Forums!! :surprise:
All of these prosper whether you buy an American car or a foreign one.
Oh, but you CAN, my friend unless you've gotten rid of that old pickup truck!
I hate to open a larger can of worms here but American cars are frankly garbage and I should know as I've always owned at least one [together with imports]. I kept byuing American because I thought I was helping American workers and our econokmy when all I was doing was being taken advantage of.
In researching a new car through the Cash for Clunkers program, I took a look at several GM models as I would have qualified for several incentives [I own a Cadillac for the owner loyalty rebate, have a GM card with lots of points] and I was shocked at the poor quality of the vehicles. In fact, I was told that by the dealer that some of the lesser models don't come with spare tires - at a sticker price of $16,000. I could overlook the manual windows and locks in exchange for good fuel economy, but the spare tire pushed me over the edge. SHOCKING! I literally laughed at the salesman. The MSRPs of the American cars are higher than many imports with better features and most certainly better warranties. I donated the Cadillac, bought a Saab and for the first time in my life do not own a traditional American car [I know Saab is owned by GM but it's still built in Sweden]. I have no idea how GM or Chrysler will stay in business. Ford at least seems to be doing pretty well, comparatively speaking.
Well yeah, I could in the sense that I do still have that truck, which does qualify with its 13 mpg combined rating. But I'm just not in a situation where I feel it would truly benefit me. If the truck was on its last legs then yeah, I'd go for it, but I just don't want to get back into a monthly payment, plus increased insurance, just for the instant gratification of getting $3500-4500 for my truck!
I remember when you bought theat Intrepid and it doesn't seem like that long ago.
But, then, neither does high school.
Heck, I still remember the date...November 6, 1999! Hard to believe it'll be 10 years in a few months! It has around 148,000 miles on it, but is still running well, doesn't make any funny noises, smells, or fumes. It's not the prettiest thing in the world anymore, as it's been hit on all four sides now. But the paint is still shiny, it's not rusting yet, and nothing's falling off of it. It has been a pretty good car overall, and I know it can' be worth much more than $1000-1500 in trade, so at this point I'll just keep it until something horribly expensive fails on it.
Next time around, one of the cars I've considered, believe it or not, is a Honda Civic! The current generation feels roomy enough to me that I don't feel cramped. Cozy yes, but not cramped. And I like the Accord, too. But, honestly, I'm all over the map. Heck, my mechanic has this 1960 New Yorker he recently got that I find an attraction to. I wonder what kind of fuel economy its 413 V-8 gets? :surprise:
Some buyers will be baited into getting a new car (2009-2010) with this big rebate, and some cars will have a Mfg rebate or low financing too.
People that can least afford a new car will be trapped into new payments, interest, insurance, tax etc when their old car prolly ran fine enuf. And those who can afford to buy a new car get to unload a ***** for $4500. So dealers score, as they don't have to offer any of their own money for a trade-in. Good deal.
And who is paying for this?
Then, instead of the old car being sold as used to someone who can't afford a new car, they mandate that the car be destroyed!
Now, how much in the way of gas, electric, coal and ozone goes into replacing the old vehicles? I dunno, but a lot. The steel and rubber have to be manufactured (they prolly won't let you keep your old tires).
The plastic in the new cars is made from petroleum.
And the (our) banks get to issue new car loans. Good for them.
If this program were to have any merit, the standards should have been much higher - like, the new car must get at least 40 mpg, and the dealer must knock off a matching amount of the price as the gov't rebate (I think Chrysler is doing this on some models).
So, I figger the price of used cars will go up, because there will be fewer of them available to the working poor who need a car. Why would I want to sell my 1990 Firebird to someone for $400 if the government will give $4500 to make it dead?
Some car stereo makers and dealers may go bankrupt, because we can now buy a perfectly good used stereo (for cheap) that someone cannibalized from a used car that was about to be crushed.
The scrapyards will salvage all the good stuff for resale, like seats, airbags, doors, windshields, water pumps, tires, wheels, window motors, handles, bulbs and all the other interior/exterior parts that collision shops need to repair damaged vehicles. Do you suppose the cost of collision repairs will reflect the lower price of used OEM parts?
Where does that leave the makers of replacement parts? They can't compete with "free."
Why must they scrap the vehicles? Why not give them to artists who can turn them into sofas, wet bars, BBQ grills, beds, garden planters and other objets d'autos? Give some to David Letterman to drop off his roof. Why destroy perfectly running automobiles? Can't we donate the cars to the good people of Iraq? (The question might have been asked, "Why destroy Iraq?") How about parking the cars on the Skid Rows of American cities for the carless to have a place to sleep and stow their gear? How about the average Joe Sixpack getting a free car for his yard to store all those loose tools, toys and auto parts that are laying about his lawn?
I mean, even the mandatory digital TV program :mad: giveaway (gov't paid for converter boxes after declaring analog television moribund), as stupid as it was, did not require the old TV sets to be junked. So we can have our HDTV and a nice aquarium too.
Why not encourage some competition for the Cadillac Ranch? Bury the front ends of a few dozen Lincolns and Volkswagens along Route 66 and watch the tourists flock to the desert again.
How about letting kids get their frustrations out by burning or sledgehammering some old vehicles?
I'm sure there are some scuba divers that would like to explore the new auto-reefs that these cars could engender.
Jim L. in L.A.
_/\_.
Does anybody besides me remember this from the movie "Americathon," starring the late John Ritter?
But I remember those things from my youth.
And I've stayed out of trouble ever since.
Jim
I love that idea. Only I would park them in Beverly Hills, Santa Barbara and San Francisco. Welcome to the Forum with your fresh ideas.
I have a lot of misgivings too.
Yeah, but the Intrepid's a moot point when it comes to the C4C, as it's too economical. Actually, if it did qualify, I would be tempted to trade it on a new car. But to only get $1000-1500 or whatever for it, I'd rather just keep it and take my chances. I figure a new car payment would run me at least $300 per month, so as long as the Intrepid stays significantly below that, I'm happy. I did put about $2K into it in 2007, but that did include a lot of maintenance stuff, and things that my mechanic said I really didn't need, but I wanted to do it to be safe. I think it hit me for about $1,000 in 2008. For 2009, I'm into it about $1500 so far, but $1300 of that was when I blew up the a/c compressor and contaminated the system. I knew it was low on freon, but tried to put it off till the spring. But one February day I was running the defroster, and it seized up on me and made a nice little mess. So for that, I blame myself more than I blame Chrysler.
But, if the engine or tranny goes, don't worry, I'm bailing on the thing! It's been a good car, but I'm not THAT sentimental about it!
Now the truck, on the other hand? Well, I don't think there's anything in a 1985 Silverado that's even capable of failing, to the tune of $4500! The THM350C tranny is still probably under $1000 to rebuild, and the Chevy smallblock V-8 is like the cheapest engine in the world to replace. I think the biggest threat to my truck's existence would be getting totaled in an accident. But it's beefy enough, that most lighter impacts would just end up totaling whatever slammed into it. Anything strong enough to actually totally disable it would probably put me in the hospital, or worse. And at that point, a totaled truck is the least of my worries!
No matter what I do, I'm going to want to have a car and a truck. So I guess if I really wanted to, I could trade the truck for a more economical car, sell the Intrepid, and then just buy a new truck outright. But that's an awful lot of money to blow, considering I'm probably down to 6-7,000 miles per year now. And, if I did lose the Intrepid, I still have two '79 New Yorkers, a '76 LeMans, and a '67 Catalina to fall back on. And with any luck, by this time next year, a roadworthy '57 Desoto, as well!
You really need to look at reality. Here's a small hint...
IT WAS THE AUTO INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE THAT WROTE THIS BILL!!!!
Back in 2004 when Land Rover launched the T5 platform that underpins the the LR3 the Range Rover Sport and now the LR4 our launch docs said it cost 1.4 billion dollars to develop the platform and retool Rover's Sollihul factory.
That was 1.4 billion for a platform that wouldn't sell more then 100,000 units a year worldwide at an average USD wholesale transaction of around 40,000.
I just don't see many startups having the money to do that ever again.
I'm guessing that at most they'll scarf the seat and the glass, and maybe the A/C compressor from my truck before it meets up with the crusher.
The problems that we face today are a result of collectivism, ( socialism ) that have nothing to do with capitalism. We have very little captalism in the US but fortunately a little goes a long way.
Prosperity in a free society depends upon rewarding :
1. Hard work
2. Thrift
3. Entrepreneurship
4. The ability to own property which is anathama to the collectivist
A market economy punishes bad performance and rewards high achievemnt that serves the consumer.
GM and other companies must be allowed to fail so their scarce resources can be reallocated to their most effiecient use.The resources will simply move to more competent hands that have a greater chance to succeed.
The course that we have chosen is being insanely fiscally irreponsible will not end well as it has not throughout history.
The universe and the human body is dynamic and there is always a process of birth and death. New companies are born and others must die. New stars are born and others die, etc.
The people who see the universe as static, yes the ludites are always attempting to stop change in the marketplace which hurts us all.
Note to Mr Shiftright: What you are proposing was attempted by 65 percent of the countries in the 20th century with disasterous results bucause collectivism is contray to human nature. You act like what you propose is something new, Tribalism is the oldest game for us bipeds. What lifted us out of the muck is economic freedom to fail and succeed.
Stop the Largess for Clunkers alrready and may I suggest that you elimiinate these political topics in a car forum.
The CAR$ project is a good windfall for a car buyer who has a nearly-worthless vehicle to trade in. People with a recent vintage car (that does not qualify under CAR$) to trade might feel slighted that a klunker has as much trade-in value as their auto.
The buyer is getting up to a $4500 discount, if you assume the trade-in would not garner much under normal circumstances. Your mileage may ...
But the auto companies are getting a major subsidy for each car too, as they are able to sell a $10,000 car for $5,500 with a trade-in. They are not cutting their profit margin, and by (in effect) lowering the purchase price dramatically they stand to move more product. I didn't mean to imply that dealers were making anything on these deals, other than an opportunity to make some sales and get a paycheck.
I realize that CAR$ is designed to help the auto makers get rid of excess inventory and sell some 2010 models, but wouldn't it be nice if we were offered the same $4500 to "sell" our klunkers to the government without having to buy a new car? There are plenty of used cars out there that get better gas mileage than most of the newer offerings. Some might feel good about getting rid of their cars and using trains and buses to commute to work.
I really hope it all works out for the best. It's only a drop in the monetary bucket compared to TARP. I'd hate to see the country divided in 2012 between the Gets and the Get Nots. Already I see trouble brewing with CAR$. Some people think their old car should be on the list of acceptable trade-ins, especially if it has engine troubles that make it fall below the 18 MPG threshold. I feel for the salespeople at the dealerships who will have to deal with the flack from prospective customers.
Jim ('98 Ford ZX2, '96 Suzuki x 90) :shades:
You simply don't understand this program. Posting rants and whines on a subject while having no understanding of the subject being discussed makes you look foolish.
LOL, it is a rare treat to find a car salesman that is knowledgeable on the vehicles they sell. And you want them to understand 100 plus pages of gobbledy [non-permissible content removed] put out by a bunch of worthless politicians? I honestly feel for the auto dealers in this fiasco. They will be the ones getting the brunt of abuse from the public that only see the ads on TV or hear they can get $4500 in trade for their old worthless POC.
Just a lot of whining becasue their cars don't qualify. I simply tell them...
" Your car has an average rating of 19 MPG" And I show them in black and white.
" I'm sorry your timing belt snapped but your car has to RUN in order to qualify"
Etc...Most people understand but there will always be whiners to tell us the rules are "unfair".
We just have to know the basic rules.
Thestore management BETTER understand all of the rules or they might not get paid and we are talking about BIG dollars here!
But in our relative reality, when you're out of work and you need to support your family, absolute reality and theories of economics or abstract discussions of morality rather fall flat.
Someone needs a job RIGHT NOW.
Yes, C4C is ultimately as futile as building walls around a decaying Roman empire---but that's fine, because NOW is all any of us really have.
As for "economic freedom", really the American system has been running on empty since the 1970s. It's all just coming to roost, and we need to change our habits IMO.
C4C is in no way shape or form intended to change our habits. It's just bailing water out of the boat until we figure out what the hell is going on. If you put this heavy burden of morality or "save the country" upon C4C, it can't carry such weight any more than a School Lunch Program can give kids PhDs.
In answer to your questions:
1. The companies that I am referring to are GM and Chysler.
2. The vast majority of businesses are not in bed with Washington. Only the ones who spend vast sums in Washington attempting to game the system.
That is why our founders felt thought that small government is beautiful.
3. Companies do not pay corporate income tax. They simply imbed the cost into the final price that we pay for products and services and pass them along to Washington.
4. Attempting to evade natural law in spending more that you have eventurally results in bankrupcty.
The average retired couple has approximatley $90,000.00 in a bank CD.
If our currency fails then our lifes work becomes worthless.
Please stop the corporate welfare regarding "Cash for Clunkers". We have already spent over 60 billion keeping GM and Chrysler on life support.
"Government is that great fiction where everyone attempts to live at the expense of everyone else"
Energy? Transportation ?Hell two thirds of my property taxes go to education, I don't have any kids but I don't have a problem paying because the money is being spent for the greater good of the State.
Putting C4C purely in the economic context in which it belongs would make it easier for them to evaluate IMO, because that's what it is---an economic stimulus experiment.
Probably so and I may be one of those people.
Still, I think our current administration leans in that direction and that scares me.
Socialism has ALWAYS failed.
When does the stimulus end? Do we extend it when the billion dollars is gone as some have suggested or does it become a monkey on our backs that people will continually demand.
And then, what other industry is next in line and where do these dollars come from?
The so-called success of American capitalism works like this, these days at any rate:
Real wages haven't gone up since the 1970s. First time that's happened since the...oh....last 150 years or so.
So, in an attempt to keep up this "American standard of living" we were so proud of after the prosperity of post-WW II, we tried to work longer hours. But hourly wages stayed the same (inflation adjusted). Then, exhausted, :sick: we turned to borrow the money from the corporations who made it in HUGE amounts, by installing computers to do the work of people, layoffs, doing business offshore, etc. :shades:
At first, we borrowed with collateral....our houses.....then we borrowed without collateral.....credit cards.
And now we are all broke, including the banks who lent us the money.
So programs like C4C are very appealing to most everyone, because we are all broke alike, business and workers. They need cash, we need that wonderful standard of living back again.
Some day, businesses will get rich again and we'll start borrowing again. Will real wages go up? Will we start saving in huge amounts?
I doubt it. :surprise:
/my two cents