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Comments
I should've known you would side with Mad-off and feel fine about severely affecting other people's things. New ideas bounce off you like wild, errant Kobe Bryant layins at crunch time.
If an old person's foreign car with glazed-over, discolored, water-logged headlamp clusters is what turns you on, then you just have at them with much fervor.
I'm basically still happily entrenched in that same camp.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
"Sales of fuel-efficient autos stall despite high gas prices"
1:56 AM, Mar. 28, 2011
"Automakers are spending more than $50 billion to meet the government's 2016 fuel economy law, but consumers aren't buying enough of the fuel-efficient vehicles necessary to allow automakers to achieve the required 35.5 miles-per-gallon average..."
This is just the first part of this article.
It's going to (unfortunately) take high gas prices > $4 for people to seriously start deciding that the Explorer can get replaced by a Fusion Hybrid and STILL fit all their required people and materials in there.
Gas prices go up? Buy a higher efficiency car.
Gas prices go back down? Trade into something larger.
I know people at my workplace who have actually done this yo-yo.
Another example: Too dumb to know a clean diesel is a great car. Although staying away from VW brands can be a smart move, based on their reliability.
Buick has done well, but starting prices are mid 20s and that's before some hefty incentives.
If they hold the line on those new, higher prices, I predict a dip in sales.
Auto Observer said Ford may beat GM in sales for March, and that's mostly because of reduced incentives (i.e. higher prices).
Let's see how the US public reacts to that.
Historically, mild hybrids have *not* done well, so this mild-ish technology could bomb.
While I'm with you, my guess it the vast majority of Buick shoppers would pick the V6, and this will be a wallflower at the higher-than-current asking price.
Yep - I'm calling it. eAssist will bomb, badly, at that price.
They should have tried to get the price within $500 or so of the current model, then just eliminated incentives. Instead it'll be several grand higher for a less-new model. Good luck.
So let's round off and call it $25.5k.
They want to start the eAssist model at $29k, right?
Oh yeah, it'll fail at that price, badly.
Oh well, if everyone agreed there'd be no reason to have discussions. We'll see how it plays out.
I think GM will price eAssist more competitively than the previous version.
I believe the GM system is similar to the system than Ford uses in the Fusion and Lincoln MKZ, and these have been reasonably successful.
You did say that the power surge added excitement, though. Hey, that was worth paying extra for.
Gary, you can't logically make a valid assumption that "ALL" auto stop technology is bad because the one vehicle you owned had a bad version of it.
The Ford Fusion Hybrid has been praised by reviews I have seen for the excellent execution of it's auto stop. Here is the USA Today review:
Smooth Auto Stop
There was a distant shudder when the Fusion's gasoline engine restarted after stopping at a red light, as all hybrids do to save fuel. But it was milder than in any other hybrid tested, so minor as to be inconsequential.
My TCH has a fabulously smooth (albeit not completely seamless) auto stop.
Ford to add auto-stop feature to ALL it's cars by 2012 models
It's unreasonable to assign your one good or bad experience with something and apply it to all versions of that technology.
There is a huge difference in technologies. The Fusion and Prius are full hybrids that have electric motors that respond to move the vehicle when you accelerate. When you kill the gas engine and then restart before the car will move it leaves a distinct pause. If you let off the gas to turn a corner then hit the accelerator to resume your turn and move down the street that dead period with no power becomes a liability to moving forward. If you have stepped on the gas to say a quarter throttle and the engine restarts you get more acceleration than you really wanted. I sort of got used to it over the year I owned it. Still did not like the feature and can assure you the difference in mileage was not measurable with human instruments.
PS
If an auto maker is able to design their auto stop so it does not stop every time you take your foot off the gas it may work. Until I see that I will stick with my assumption.
That's not how the TCH or the HCH work, at all.
The TCH and the HCH never had/have a "hesitation" on restart enough to the point of affecting the movement of the vehicle.
The TCH doesn't "rev" at all upon the gas engine restarting. The HCH might have done that a little bit, but it was a different hybrid technology than the TCH, and it was never bothersome.
And as far as gas-savings? I don't know how the GM truck did it, but the savings ARE measurable in the TCH for SURE. Sit at a light for 60 seconds with the A/C running and the engine running versus sitting there with the gas engine OFF and the battery running the A/C makes a BIG difference. That's 60 seconds of gasoline not burned at each stop light. If you have 6 or 7 lights on one trip, that's 6 or 7 minutes of the gas engine not running.
Even in a 34 MPG car, running the engine for 6 minutes burns a noticeable amount of fuel.
Pricing will be crucial. I'm just not sure that American will pick 26/37 mpg over the V6, and those who value fuel economy first might pick a hybrid instead. Here's a link:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/08/2012-buick-regal-eassist-revealed/
Maybe my opinion is because I'm thinking of a traditional Buick shopper, and surely Buick is trying to bring in younger buyers who might think differently.
standard Regal only musters up 19/30 mpg ratings
That makes 26/37 look nice, in a vacuum at least. But LaCrosse doesn't compete in a vacuum - a Sonata at 22/35 is far less complex and costs way less. The problem is they didn't start with a particularly fuel efficient platform, like others have.
Compare to others:
Buick 26/37
Sonata Hybrid 35/40
Fusion Hybrid 41/36
MKZ Hybrid 41/36 (more direct competitor?)
Camry Hybrid 31/35 (is that right, I'm using EPA as a source)
Altima Hybrid 33/33
Lexus CT 43/40
Lexus HS 35/34
Looks like the highway number is competitive, but the city isn't even close. 26 is better than 20, but nothing to brag about in the big picture.
Price falls between the mainstream hybrids and the luxury hybrids, but Lexus may beat them with the new CT, which makes far better FE numbers.
You are not paying attention. The GM hybrid did not have an electric motor that got the vehicle moving like in a Toyota, Ford or Honda hybrid. The big 42 volt battery only ran a big starter motor that started the engine quickly. Just not quick enough to follow the accelerator pedal. When at a stop light you push on the gas the engine starts and then you start to move. At least a full second hesitation. It was no big deal when going from a dead stop. It was very annoying turning a corner. Could be dangerous if someone is following you around a corner. Actually calling the GMC PU a hybrid was a real stretch. Much more than the Volt, which GM now calls a hybrid.
what engine?
what is your MPG?
I've been thinking about picking up a Lacrosse as our Accord's ingress/egress is too difficult for the in laws now.
The horsepower race is continuing while the fuel economy race gains serious momentum. This must be causing auto executives the world over some serious anxiety. In addition to what they can see, there's the possibility that some geek in a garage somewhere could suddenly come up with a spectacular new idea. That's impossible to predict, but I'm sure many are trying
Maybe some sort of KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) that gets you going after a dead stop, too, using the energy stored after stopping, but possibly without the weight and complexity of batteries.
Darn good point. Plus the gears and starter motor wear. Then that is the idea. Planned obsolescence.
In the hybrids, the answer is no. Doesn't have a traditional starter motor - it's started by the traction battery.
Phases of operation
Hybrid Synergy Drive
The HSD operates in distinct phases depending on speed and demanded torque. Here are a few of them:
Engine start: To start the engine, power is applied to MG1 to act as a starter. Because of the size of the motor generators, starting the engine requires relatively little power from MG1 and the conventional starter motor sound is not heard. Engine start can occur while stopped or moving.
On gassers, I don't know what the protections against that are, but I'm sure they have them.
But in theory I agree with you. An interruption in oil supply exists, so there must be some additional wear. It might make the difference of being able to put 450k on an engine instead of 500k. Maybe not even a 50k penalty though? I think that this start/stop cycle is more significant in the potential to cause wear in cold climates, in vehicles that start/stop often enroute to an owner's work place that is only a few miles from home, when normal engine operating temperatures haven't had a chance to be reached.
Sam
Sam
For hybrids, that is true. The hybrid system does not start fully operating until a certain engine operating temp has reached a certain level.
It will not go into electric mode or electric assist until that happens.
If you are taking fairly short drives in cold weather, you are correct that the mileage sucks.
I never had a 50% drop in the 2 hybrids I have owned (HCH/TCH) but I saw a drop from 34 to 20 in the TCH and 48 to 30 in the HCH.
Those were VERY short trips though, about 6 miles in 20 degree weather.
If you are on the highway, driving in cold, clear, weather, for 30 minutes or more, you will not see a huge MPG hit, because everything gets nice and warmed up.
In fact, looking just now at my HCH fuel usage spreadsheet (/nerd) I see that HOT weather hurt my MPG more than COLD weather did - because of A/C usage.
Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid - 2011
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/vehicles/chevrolet/tahoehybrid/2011.brand_GM.htm- - l
I should add that I don't consider there to be anything "Green" or "Exciting" about a Tahoe or Escalade hybrid, but there you go....different strokes for different folks.
Edit: oh, and it's not called Displacement on Demand, it is called Active Fuel Management now.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
At this time for CA buyers they are non starters. Our electricity is just too expensive. The VW TDI or Prius is much better choice with enough extra to supply fuel for the life of the car.
Nothing to fret too much about. 'San will figger it out.
They probably sell that many Altimas each day.
Might cost a few bucks to get in the used car business,or just not take them in trade..
Excitement in driving an electric, sounds like a double dose of stresssssssssssss.......!!!!!!!
Careful who you vote into office, it's all political, folks, a very bad deal for America...
IL Track Tested: 2011 Smart Fortwo Electric Drive Passion, aka The Slowest Car Ever. (Straightline)
Maybe we should rename this company to a more appropriate name...
Maybe we should rename this company to a more appropriate name...
It seems to be more of an issue with their US marketing arm. The Canadian and EU versions are a high MPG diesel motor that has a little bit of torque, and they are available with a manual transmission to take advantage of what is available in the engine.
For my driving, I would still pick something else, but at least it wouldn't be a relatively pricey vehicle with low mpg that uses premium gas and offers no utility.
PS
I wonder if the Smart EV has yet a different charger than the Volt and Leaf? OR do you plunk down $3000 every time you get a different EV.