Like I have preached before, MANY MANY MILLIONS of consumers COULD USE an EV but will foolishly choose not to out of fear. Scared to be stranded. Scared to be able to find a place to charge it. Scaredy Cats.
LOL, now that is funny :shades:
Those are all legitimate concerns for people to have. Just like the rolling blackouts in TX this week are a result of trusting the wind to keep you warm.
I actually get what larsb is saying, perhaps because I own a 3rd vehicle.
Wifey has an AWD crossover, but I share my driving between a commuter car (Miata) and a family/trip car (minivan).
Thing is, for me to afford a spare car, basically, since I don't want to drive a minivan daily, it had to be reliable and affordable. I paid $22 something for that Miata, and it's a well equipped PRHT. It's fun and fairly efficient, I get about 27 mpg on average.
So the EVs would appeal directly to ME. The target demographic is ME. The guy looking for a commuter car for short city drives. My round trip is 26 miles, so I may not ever have to buy gas. "Filling up" at home using a 220v outlet is appealing because I would likely *never* have to buy gas, not ever.
Oddly enough my concern in owning a Volt would be the gas in the tank going stale.
Still, the cost is prohibitively high. About $11,500 more than the Miata, for less fun and no convertible, a big sacrifice to make for the sake of being green. I only use 1 gallon per day, 5 gallons a week. That is $15 worth of gas, hardly breaking the bank. And the electricity would not be free, either. Plus there is a concern about battery replacement long-term.
Even if I consider leasing, $350 buys an entry luxury car, and you're getting a 4 seater compact that roughly compares to cars that lease for half.
Maybe, maybe if my state also offered some incentives, bringing the payment down in the low/mid 200s, I'd seriously consider one.
But even then, I could lease a Civic GX and fill up with propane at home, again for half the cost.
EVs are a tough sell, very tough. Even to the targeted buyer.
In California, CODA's sedan will retail for $44,900, or $32,400 after a $7,500 federal tax credit and a $5,000 state government credit, said Forrest Beanum, CODA's vice president for communications.
I hope no one plans to buy one and get the CA $5k. It will be gone before they ever make it here. I am sure they have already sold 800 Volts, Teslas and Leaves in CA. Here is the scoop on the CA rebate. Not sure how you collect a rebate. It is not a tax credit.
In fact, at $5,000 each, the new program will have initial funding for only 820 battery cars before the money runs out, as the cash-for-clunkers program did. The funds will disappear even faster if some early birds buy Smith Electric or EVI trucks, because those vehicles are eligible for $20,000 rebates.
more TV ads for the CT200, the latest Lexus model (basically the Lexus Prius - same powertrain) - the highest-rated luxury car for fuel economy, according to the ad (42 mpg combined). I wonder if this thing could be fun to drive, as slow as it is. It is supposed to have really good handling. And to be the real thing in terms of interior quality and feature content. It's just slow off the line.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That's got the Prius drivetrain, with minor upgrades. So it's more about economy than performance. Edit: tagman apparently likes the Sport mode, so maybe that is where the upgrades were applied.
Torque off the line is good on the Prius, so it doesn't "feel" slow. The electric engine produces a lot of peak torque at zero rpm.
But no, it's not about performance at all. Not a bit.
Having said that, have you seen gas prices lately? Up 33 cents per AAA. The timing is genius!
The basic Model S, with a battery designed to run 160 miles on a charge, will cost $57,400, or $49,900 after a $7,500 federal tax credit. A second battery option, with a 230-mile range, will add about $10,000 to the car's cost. A Model S with a 300-mile battery will cost about $20,000 more than basic.
In other news, the Phill Home CNG Fuel Station is available again, "just in time for a renewed national push to use natural gas as a transportation fuel". (Green Car Advisor)
An overnight refill can supply enough fuel for 100-120 miles of travel and in some state retail CNG pumps are plentiful in urban areas.
Sounds like they have downsized the PHILL and up sized the price. Only one dealer in CA. I can just imagine what it will cost for them to come down to San Diego and install. I would not figure on less than $6000 installed. Last I read the tax incentives were all gone.
$77k for an EV that will go 160 miles. What a deal. :sick:
CNG is a good fuel. I think taxis, buses and local delivery is their niche. All the stations that had CNG in the 1990s have quit selling it. The only places you can get it is from the local gas company. Many of the feeder lines are not adequate to allow a person to install the PHILL. I was all ready to convert my 1993 Chevy 3/4 ton PU. I got back from work in Alaska and the company had folded. They primarily went into business to convert the Navy trucks to CNG. Dual fuel using Propane is simpler and less hassle to deal with.
It was parked in an industrial part of town. Had a long cord running across the sidewalk and into a shop. I assume the person was at work stealing the bosses electricity. Wait till he gets his electric bill. About 8 KWHs per day should kick his bill up about $50 a month.
That is NOT good for Nissan. I would think they did better testing in different weather conditions. They are selling them in DC and other locations that get cold. That will have a double whammy of less energy available and more energy needed for cabin heat. When I went to look at them and sat in one, it just did not appeal to me. And the salesman was nearly clueless on the reality of the vehicle. This Nissan Spin could come around to bite them in the butt. Being stuck in traffic is not acceptable. AAA will probably get tired of towing people home and cancel their service.
Nissan spokeswoman Katherine Zachary said while it has reports of a couple of "isolated" events, the automaker sees no trend of unexpected shutdowns among Leaf owners. Early Leaf adopters are willing to embrace the range anxiety of electric vehicles, but mainstream customers that Nissan will need to sell the Leaf beyond its 20,000 pre-orders may not be so tolerant — especially if the Leaf can't accurately predict the call of the turtle.
This is to jump-start a 12v car battery. Would do nothing for a dead traction battery.
All the power you need to jump start your car when the battery is dead. Easily recharge this portable jump starter from a standard househould 120V outlet. Also comes with a 12v cigarette lighter adapter for charging. Lightweight, portable jump starter with 900 cranking amps for those cold winter mornings. Do be left out in the cold - get yours today before we sell out. Quantities are limited so act now.
The Navi has a ring that shows where that range could get you, but it is "as the crow flies", as opposed to the length on the road. If you add lefts and rights, ups and downs, it's optimistic to say the least.
Another point - that's not round-trip, that's range in one direction only. You may get there, but how do you get back?
Nissan provides complimentary towing to Leaf owners for just such events; it had to provide the same service to a Barron's reporter after she attempted an 82-mile drive to the beach. In the Seattle case, the operators who took the tow-truck call asked if the Leaf just needed a jump start.
Even if you have a boss willing to let you plug in your EV at work. With 110 volt charge you would get less than 8 KWH during your work cycle. That is probably a max of 24 miles under ideal conditions. I think someone like Larsb could get a night shift job and let his solar charge up the car all day. Not sure he has enough solar capacity. If he leaves the AC running to keep the house cooled off.
People need to make sure they qualify for a vehicle like the Leaf before they buy one.
And how would they know for sure? YMMV a LOT. Will Nissan let you out of the lease without any penalty if it just does not live up to the hype?
I know you poo pooed the reality that a Leaf could be providing well under 50 mile range during the winter. Or are you saying that no one in a place that gets below freezing should consider a Leaf? That only leaves parts of CA, AZ and FL. And Hawaii. Of course Hawaii has the highest electric rates in the USA.
You "know" by doing research. Talking to other owners. Browsing sites like this one. Talking to Nissan. Making sure you don't use the Leaf as your ONLY car, unless your commute is REALLY short.
Seriously, Gary. Who would buy a car not knowing if they can use it's benefits?
It's not the technology that would be failing, it would be the decision-making of the buyer.
Sure - EVs have a way to go before they become more usable for MORE commuters. But you gotta start somewhere, and I'm glad GM and Nissan had the cojones to start first.
Here in DC we get a lot of cold - wonder if the Leaf can pre-heat the seats/interior/steering wheel while it's still plugged in?
That would help a lot.
MyFord Mobile Smartphone App – Ford has developed a new smartphone app called MyFord Mobile that allows the Focus Electric’s owner to monitor the car’s charge status, retrieve information about the vehicle, receive alerts that the car requires charging or is finished charging, and program the car to “pre-condition” itself by using electricity from the grid to heat or cool the battery pack and cabin. MyFord Mobile can also help the owner locate the car via GPS, remotely start the car and operate the door locks, and send directions to nearby charging locations to the Focus Electric’s Sync Traffic, Directions and Information system.
I share your concerns. I don't think they will be exciting to drive. But on the up side, you will save money and help the earth. That time is definitely coming though-and fast! Kind of scary...
Comments
LOL, now that is funny :shades:
Those are all legitimate concerns for people to have. Just like the rolling blackouts in TX this week are a result of trusting the wind to keep you warm.
Wifey has an AWD crossover, but I share my driving between a commuter car (Miata) and a family/trip car (minivan).
Thing is, for me to afford a spare car, basically, since I don't want to drive a minivan daily, it had to be reliable and affordable. I paid $22 something for that Miata, and it's a well equipped PRHT. It's fun and fairly efficient, I get about 27 mpg on average.
So the EVs would appeal directly to ME. The target demographic is ME. The guy looking for a commuter car for short city drives. My round trip is 26 miles, so I may not ever have to buy gas. "Filling up" at home using a 220v outlet is appealing because I would likely *never* have to buy gas, not ever.
Oddly enough my concern in owning a Volt would be the gas in the tank going stale.
Still, the cost is prohibitively high. About $11,500 more than the Miata, for less fun and no convertible, a big sacrifice to make for the sake of being green. I only use 1 gallon per day, 5 gallons a week. That is $15 worth of gas, hardly breaking the bank. And the electricity would not be free, either. Plus there is a concern about battery replacement long-term.
Even if I consider leasing, $350 buys an entry luxury car, and you're getting a 4 seater compact that roughly compares to cars that lease for half.
Maybe, maybe if my state also offered some incentives, bringing the payment down in the low/mid 200s, I'd seriously consider one.
But even then, I could lease a Civic GX and fill up with propane at home, again for half the cost.
EVs are a tough sell, very tough. Even to the targeted buyer.
Bamboo
The videos were funny.
Don't know if I could trust them. What'll they call it? The Shock? The Electrocute? The Short Circuit?
In California, CODA's sedan will retail for $44,900, or $32,400 after a $7,500 federal tax credit and a $5,000 state government credit, said Forrest Beanum, CODA's vice president for communications.
I hope no one plans to buy one and get the CA $5k. It will be gone before they ever make it here. I am sure they have already sold 800 Volts, Teslas and Leaves in CA. Here is the scoop on the CA rebate. Not sure how you collect a rebate. It is not a tax credit.
In fact, at $5,000 each, the new program will have initial funding for only 820 battery cars before the money runs out, as the cash-for-clunkers program did. The funds will disappear even faster if some early birds buy Smith Electric or EVI trucks, because those vehicles are eligible for $20,000 rebates.
Half Civic from two generations ago, half old Kia Sephia.
And check out the massive gaps between the door and front quarter panel, were they installed by the blind?
Can't be too bad, then!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
1999 Kia Sephia sedan in Violet Mist
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12075b/2969#MSG2969
Torque off the line is good on the Prius, so it doesn't "feel" slow. The electric engine produces a lot of peak torque at zero rpm.
But no, it's not about performance at all. Not a bit.
Having said that, have you seen gas prices lately? Up 33 cents per AAA. The timing is genius!
You say genius, I say blind a** luck. :shades:
Toyota hybrid sales were up 50% or so last month, but the HS was down. That tells me Lexus shoppers were waiting for the CT.
I doubt they will have enough supply to even meet demand.
Neither the Prius nor the CT appeal to me. While I'm at it I'll add the Volt and the Leaf to my list of cars I wouldn't consider.
300-mile Range Tesla?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2011%2F03%2F07%2FBU671I5M- 1C.DTL
Tesla Says First Model S Sedans Will Be Priced From $77,400 (Inside Line)
In other news, the Phill Home CNG Fuel Station is available again, "just in time for a renewed national push to use natural gas as a transportation fuel". (Green Car Advisor)
Sounds like they have downsized the PHILL and up sized the price. Only one dealer in CA. I can just imagine what it will cost for them to come down to San Diego and install. I would not figure on less than $6000 installed. Last I read the tax incentives were all gone.
$77k for an EV that will go 160 miles. What a deal. :sick:
CNG is used by taxi fleets in Brazil. The taxis fill up as gas stations, so no PHILL needed. They are conversions and flex-fuel capable I believe.
The US has enough CNG made here that these would 100% offset imported oil.
That won't be the case longer-term, though.
Hey, I wonder if the quake will affect the Nissan Leaf?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-11/toyota-other-japanese-companies-assessi- - ng-damage-from-miyagi-earthquake.html
Production has been halted at 4 Nissan plants and at a Sony plant that makes batteries (do they supply Nissan?).
Nissan was struggling with supply already, this could really screw things up.
Looks like the range gauge isn't always accurate. DOH!
Nissan spokeswoman Katherine Zachary said while it has reports of a couple of "isolated" events, the automaker sees no trend of unexpected shutdowns among Leaf owners. Early Leaf adopters are willing to embrace the range anxiety of electric vehicles, but mainstream customers that Nissan will need to sell the Leaf beyond its 20,000 pre-orders may not be so tolerant — especially if the Leaf can't accurately predict the call of the turtle.
All the power you need to jump start your car when the battery is dead. Easily recharge this portable jump starter from a standard househould 120V outlet. Also comes with a 12v cigarette lighter adapter for charging. Lightweight, portable jump starter with 900 cranking amps for those cold winter mornings. Do be left out in the cold - get yours today before we sell out. Quantities are limited so act now.
The Navi has a ring that shows where that range could get you, but it is "as the crow flies", as opposed to the length on the road. If you add lefts and rights, ups and downs, it's optimistic to say the least.
Another point - that's not round-trip, that's range in one direction only. You may get there, but how do you get back?
Nissan provides complimentary towing to Leaf owners for just such events; it had to provide the same service to a Barron's reporter after she attempted an 82-mile drive to the beach. In the Seattle case, the operators who took the tow-truck call asked if the Leaf just needed a jump start.
LOL
People need to make sure they qualify for a vehicle like the Leaf before they buy one.
Meaning they better not be "pushing the range" on a daily basis, or else, Nissan is going to be providing A LOT of FREE tows.
50% energy savings! LOL
And how would they know for sure? YMMV a LOT. Will Nissan let you out of the lease without any penalty if it just does not live up to the hype?
I know you poo pooed the reality that a Leaf could be providing well under 50 mile range during the winter. Or are you saying that no one in a place that gets below freezing should consider a Leaf? That only leaves parts of CA, AZ and FL. And Hawaii. Of course Hawaii has the highest electric rates in the USA.
That would help a lot.
Seriously, Gary. Who would buy a car not knowing if they can use it's benefits?
It's not the technology that would be failing, it would be the decision-making of the buyer.
Sure - EVs have a way to go before they become more usable for MORE commuters. But you gotta start somewhere, and I'm glad GM and Nissan had the cojones to start first.
That would help a lot.
MyFord Mobile Smartphone App – Ford has developed a new smartphone app called MyFord Mobile that allows the Focus Electric’s owner to monitor the car’s charge status, retrieve information about the vehicle, receive alerts that the car requires charging or is finished charging, and program the car to “pre-condition” itself by using electricity from the grid to heat or cool the battery pack and cabin. MyFord Mobile can also help the owner locate the car via GPS, remotely start the car and operate the door locks, and send directions to nearby charging locations to the Focus Electric’s Sync Traffic, Directions and Information system.
Vehix Ford Focus BEV Preview