OK, then the NHTSA is wrong. Now, how about we do something about the babies/small children that drown every day - more drown every day in this country than have ever been killed by people that don't follow directions or use common sense killed by those incorrectly designed Toyotas that the stupid, paid-off, etc. NHTSA said were correctly designed. :sick:
I read that you shouldn't use synthetic on brand new cars (can't remember why exactly - I think it was about the parts getting meshed together properly) or on vehicles with over 100,000 miles on them (because the synthetic is too slippery for the poor, old worn out parts on those).
Yep, it could be that, gotta get those ratings up!
I suppose you know Steve that Edmund's own Inside Line (Straightline Blog) has mentioned this broadcast, and IMO Straightline presents a very balanced, non hysterical view of the situation:
ABC has produced an investigative piece on the issue, wherein a few Toyota owners and an independent safety expert make the case that reports of unintended acceleration in Toyota/Lexus products cannot be written off to mere bunched-up floor mats.
Independent safety analyst Sean Kane, of the Vehicle Safety Information Resource Center, LLC (VSIRC), was interviewed for the story, and he says he has uncovered evidence of more than 200 accidents and a dozen deaths involving Toyota and Lexus vehicles that apparently accelerated out of control. His numbers come from another company, Safety Research & Strategies, Inc. (SRS), but neither Kane nor the SRS web site lays out those numbers in any kind of detail. Kane then speculates that electronic thottles may be the real culprit of unintended acceleration but offers nothing in support of that.
So, in the absence of hard evidence, we can't exactly describe ABC's report as a rigorous investigative piece. ABC does at least acknowledge that no engineers or automotive safety experts have been able to duplicate this condition in a Toyota or Lexus, and that NHTSA denied the latest petition for a defect investigation of the current-generation ES 350.
So what this boils down to are self-styled "safety experts" and a tabloid-type "news" story branding this as a serious problem. At the same time NHTSA has denied a petition for a defect investigation of the alleged "sudden acceleration."
The matter is not closed as NHTSA acknowledged today, because Toyota itself said it is looking into the root cause of the problem (if any) and will issue a follow-up letter to owners offering a more permanent solution (perhaps the "German" method). In the interim, the company is recommending the removal of driver floor mats in certain late-model Toyota and Lexus vehicles, or if the mats aren't removed, ensuring that the proper mat is used and secured by the retention hooks.
Is it possible to reprogram existing powertrain control systems in the cars already sold to reduce or eliminate acceleration if the system senses acceleration request and braking occurring simultaneously. That would be an easy fix if it could be done in the field on existing cars! It may save lives.
Hey, we agree for once on something besides inconsiderate drivers! Of course, to be truly safe, ALL cars with electronic throttles should be recalled to make this fix. This would surely be the last nail in the coffin for Chrysler.
BTW gagrice, only VW/Audi have had this system for "nearly a decade," 2001 to be exact. BMW came on board in the 2005 model year, and Mercedes hasn't been very forthcoming, last I heard.
>ALL cars with electronic throttles should be recalled to make this fix.
As long as the sensors give the right input to the computer... the safety feature would outweigh any argument over needing burnout capability at stoplights.
I just saw an ad for the new LaCrosse with a start button. I wonder if GM has a logical OFF capability for it like two pushes within a second or something more logical, to me at least, than holding for 3 seconds.
We have a new LaCrosse at work; I could see what the owner's manual says about it if I have time (our example has a conventional keyed ignition).
I know there wasn't any obvious way to zero the twin trip odometers. I finally managed by pressing the menu settings to zero trip 2, but not trip 1. I could easily argue that cars are getting too dang complicated.
The engine kill logic is a conundrum. . You don't want to make it too easy by accidentally hitting the button, but holding for 3 seconds may be too hard.
I'm losing track of what was said on what thread, but Prius owners decided you could just push the Park button to immediately kill the engine (with no harm done, because the transmission just goes into neutral if the car is moving).
Is it possible to reprogram existing powertrain control systems in the cars already sold to reduce or eliminate acceleration if the system senses acceleration request and braking occurring simultaneously.
Good question. I'm would imagine that on some vehicles, the PCM isn't equipped to do that, and it would require an expensive hardware replacement and not just a reprogram to accomplish that. Plus, even with a simple reflash, a non-trivial number of modules will get "bricked" or simply won't take the update and then will have to be replaced.
reminds me of last weeks episode of the Amazing Race. They were in some odd place (holland? Dubai?) and the teams had to jump in a car and drive to a challenge.
well, MB seems to be the auto sponser this year, so they had a line of sedans (not sure if they were C or E class, I think E).
One dude (younger guy) couldn't figure out how to ge the car started, or in gear! He had to get out, and find some local getting into his MB ML in the parking garage, and get him to come over to show him how to get the car moving.
That is just ridiculous to overengineer (reinvent a wheel that worked just fine?) like that.
I complained about it when it first came out because on cars with that shifter Mercedes has five separate stalks on the steering column.
1 & 2. You have the regular left and right stalks for wipers/blinkers/lights
3. Plus the power adjustment for the tilt/telescope.
4. Plus the cruise control stalk cause Mercedes gives you a whole separate stalk for that instead of putting it on another stalk or giving you buttons on the wheel.
5. The gear shifter wit its bizarre arrangement to get in and out of park/neutral.
Oh and there are also paddle shifter buttons in the back of the wheel that don't require a separate button to be pushed to be activated. It is very easy to downshift by accident when going into a turn or worse miss hit the resume on the Cruise control stalk because it is right next to the blinker stalk.
So you hit resume on a 35 mph corner when the Cruise Control was set for 65 and you downshift at the same time. That makes for a very interesting test drive believe me. :surprise:
"multiple LCD screens, an app platform similar to the one for the iPhone, and a high speed LTE internet connection that promises to make 3G feel like dial-up. The set-up turns the car into a Wi-Fi hot spot, plays movies on demand, and lets passengers frag each other in multi-player games.
A camera embedded in the rearview mirror captures the road ahead, letting you pipe a video stream to the cloud. This will let you see the view from a connected car a quarter-mile ahead of you, so you can find out what’s causing that traffic jam up ahead. The system can also sense that traffic is becoming more compressed, warning you to slow down before you encounter a traffic compression."
Just what we need, more stuff in the car. I got distracted officer as I was blogging on Edmund's and my cruise control must have gone berserk. I had no idea I was going 85 MPH in that school zone.
"Toyota Motor Corp. released misleading information about an investigation into problems with stuck gas pedals that led to a massive Toyota recall, the U.S. government said Wednesday, stressing the issue is still under review by federal safety regulators.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it was still investigating the case and meeting with Toyota to hear about the company's plan to redesign the vehicles and fix "this very dangerous problem."
I got a question. If Toyota tells the owners of 3.8 million vehicles to remove the floor mats, will they be compensated for the cost of those expensive mats? In the ES350 the all weather floor mats are part of the $1250 Premium Package. Knowing Lexus the mats are probably priced over $300 alone. Or maybe they send a couple Ty-raps in the letter.
I did mis-judge the NHTSA on the weight of the Toyota statements on Monday. The Feds are not going to let Toyota shuffle this under the carpet.
Toyota said in a statement on Monday that NHTSA had confirmed "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."
But NHTSA said that was inaccurate and the government was investigating possible causes of the acceleration problem. Removing the floor mats was "simply an interim measure" and "does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design."
"The matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle based solution," NHTSA said in the statement, which the department said was issued to correct "inaccurate and misleading information" from the automaker.
When was the last time you saw someone ADMIT they made an error while driving?
My mom backed out of her admittedly difficult driveway, and a motorcyclist ran in to her car. He suffered only minor injuries, thankfully.
She said it was his fault! He was speeding. The speed limit is 60kph and he'd be dead if he weren't going slow.
Check the blind spot, listen for engines, but accept responsibility when you make a mistake. Even now, with the benefit of hindsight, she doesn't believe it was her fault.
I won't tell her about this mat issue because she'll probably blame that as well (she drives a Honda Fit).
'xplorer: do you really think that a person driving an ES sedan, with 4 people in the car, was in Sport mode? Not likely. So finding Neutral should have been easy.
NHTSA closed the case? I missed it, been super-busy at work.
If Toyota tells the owners of 3.8 million vehicles to remove the floor mats, will they be compensated for the cost of those expensive mats? In the ES350 the all weather floor mats are part of the $1250 Premium Package.
Toyota is working on some kind of fix beyond the zip ties and asking owners to remove the driver's floor mat. Recalls don't cost the owners anything, except time and inconvenience. So any replacement mats will be free.
I think what's confusing is NHTSA did deny a petition from an individual for a formal defect investigation. However, the agency is still looking at this case at some level.
Yeah, the fulcrum is at the bottom of the pedal. It'd take a tremendous amount of force coming from the floormat to prevent it from returning to its idle position.
It would take a tremendous amount of force coming from the floormat to keep it from returning to its idle position. What will Toyota do after they order the recall for the floor mats and then the problem is still happening? The problem goes all the way back to 2002 when they made changes to the way the throttle operates... not just since 2006.
Mine don't have any problems (2004 and 2005). I still think throttle-by-wire is better than the old mechanical linkages or cables, which could bind or break.
I did note earlier that the bottom of my Camrys' accelerator pedals are about an inch higher above the floor than in the 2010 Camry (and presumably the 2007-09 models).
Subaru now uses two little pegs near the front of the driver's seat that lock the floor mat in place, and keeps it from sliding forward. It's a really easy solution to this problem.
A Southern California law firm has filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of Toyota and Lexus owners who say their vehicles were involved in incidents of sudden acceleration.
The Redlands-based firm of McCuneWrightsaid it filed the suit Thursday in the name of two Los Angeles County residents who have experienced multiple cases of unintended speeding.
“For years, Toyota Motor Corp. has dismissed complaints of sudden acceleration as being the driver’s fault,” attorney David Wright said in a statement. “But neither driver error nor floor mats can explain away many other frightening instances of runaway Toyotas. Until the company acknowledges the real problem and fixes it, we worry that other preventable injuries and deaths will occur.”
Toyota is advising owners to remove all driver-side mats from certain Toyota and Lexus models and is preparing for a recall, once the automaker and federal officials determine the underlying defects that may be behind the incidents.
REDLANDS, Calif., Nov. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The law firm of McCuneWright, LLP, filed a national class action lawsuit yesterday against Toyota Motor Corporation on behalf of Toyota and Lexus owners who have experienced incidents of sudden unintended acceleration.
Los Angeles County residents Seong Bae Choi, the owner of a 2004 Camry and Chris Chan Park, who owns a 2008 FJ Cruiser, will represent the class. Both have experienced multiple instances of sudden unintended acceleration in their respective vehicles, Choi and Park are also among the thousands of Toyota and Lexus owners who have experienced incidents of sudden unintended acceleration while driving their vehicles, and among the millions who are potentially affected by this dangerous defect.
This, however, is not the only fatal crash resulting from sudden unintended acceleration in Toyota and Lexus models. Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., has reported at least 16 fatalities and 243 injuries in crashes involving Toyotas that have been attributed to sudden unintended acceleration. In total, there have been more than 2,000 complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in these vehicles, culled from litigation and consumer-reported complaints to the automaker and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
I was kind of curious about the vehicles in the case also. I did not know that the FJ Cruiser had any runaway accidents or UIA complaints. Some here did not believe me when I predicted this would bring them out of the woodwork. Maybe I can throw my skipping CD player into the Class action suit.
Probably not as the New NAV arrived from India yesterday, and will be installed Monday.
this whole thing is getting scarier and scarier...for Toyota.
This, however, is not the only fatal crash resulting from sudden unintended acceleration in Toyota and Lexus models. Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., has reported at least 16 fatalities and 243 injuries in crashes involving Toyotas that have been attributed to sudden unintended acceleration. In total, there have been more than 2,000 complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in these vehicles, culled from litigation and consumer-reported complaints to the automaker and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
We have mentioned some 6 crashes since 2000 invloving stuck accelerators in Toyota vehicles, or was it 9 crashes. Doesn't matter how good our memories are, now we have this lawyer-culled information that lists 16 fatalities and 243 injuries and a total of more than 2,000 complaints.
This still might just be accelerator pedals mushed in the "full on" position due to aggressive floor mats. To think that. When it's so easy ta let your mind wander to something else, like ECU's of some sort, huh?
To be more accurate as to NHTSA releases, though, we have to make sure we mention that they're taking a close look at the floor pans installed in subject vehicles as well. In their workings with the pedals and mats. Pedals and mats and pans, pedals and mats and pans...oh pedals and mats and pans. Interesting how I can turn most anything in to a blues riff.
You seem to have a pathological hatred for Toyota. But dont worry ,Toyota is not going anywhere.Just a minor blip on the radar. One less buyer is not going to affect Toyota.But keep it going.Waste your time,effort and resources to malign Toyota. :sick: It was the driver`s stupidity and ignorance. Even if it was Chevy/Ford/Honda/Dodge -the same logic applies!! :shades:
Yep, this is why all the mass hysteria is being whipped up. Another stupid lawsuit so the lawyers have a shot at millions and the class members get a free oil change, if anything.
Nobody with a real injury would be dumb enough to join in something like this...but all the scammers will be first in line for that free oil change.
If the attorneys make any money on this you can be sure that every other car manufacturer might as well line up for their turn. Cigarettes used to cost 25 cents a pack and now I hear that they are about $5. Mostly due to lawsuits. I can't wait to plunk down $200,000. for a Yaris.
And what are the credentials of this Sean Kane and his organization? Sounds like he works closely with trial attorneys. Now anyone can sue for almost anything, but it doesn't such cases have merit.
Just looked him up on his website:
Who We Are
Established in July 2004 by Sean Kane, Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., is staffed with research professionals who specialize in safety matters.
Mr. Kane began his work in 1991 with the Center for Auto Safety, the advocacy organization established by Ralph Nader in Washington D.C. As a co-founder of Strategic Safety, and later, as president of Safety Research & Strategies, Mr. Kane has remained at the forefront of safety issues and trends, from Electronic Stability Control to aging tires. He continues to offer unique solutions to the problems of investigating and analyzing product defects and to federal agency investigations and rulemakings
Mr. Kane’s work on behalf of clients and the public has prompted federal investigations, aided in the successful resolution of important litigation, and alerted the public of significant vehicle safety hazards. His investigations and analyses of defects have led to recalls of millions of vehicles and components that have inflicted serious and deadly injuries to consumers, ranging from heater core ruptures, engine fires, failed electronics, and tires.
Mr. Kane was instrumental in revealing the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire debacle in the U.S. His research exposed Ford’s overseas recalls to the public in July 2000 and led to three campaigns to recall the tires. In 2006, subsequent research revealed that unused Firestone spares, never replaced in the 2000 and 2001 recalls, were being put into service, only to fail quickly causing more rollover deaths and serious injuries. As a result, Firestone launched an owner re-notification program in July 2006.
Mr. Kane is the founder of the Vehicle Safety Information Resource Center, a company that provides researchers with the tools to locate and obtain vehicle safety data and documents from government sources, he is the editor of The Safety Record, a bi-monthly publication that covers the “inside baseball” of motor vehicle and product safety, and co-chairs the CDC-sponsored Massachusetts Prevent Injury Now! Network, a group that supports injury prevention efforts as the state level.
Mr. Kane is a frequent source and commentator to the broadcast and print media and his work continues to serve as the foundation for successful identification and resolution of many vehicle and product safety matters.
SRS research staff includes Tony Di Viesti Esq., BSME, Melanie MacDonald, Ann Boudreau, Lauri Stevenson MLS, Ellen Liberman, Felix Click MLIS, Marilyn Charest, Brad Pugh, Sharon Mitchell, and Ryan Gousie
SRS also maintains contractors in Detroit, Europe, Australia, and Japan.
Hmm, he started at the Center for Auto Safety and seems to have developed a rather large ego....Didn't know he was so "instrumental in revealing the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire debacle in the U.S." :surprise:
Cigarettes used to cost 25 cents a pack and now I hear that they are about $5. Mostly due to lawsuits.
Off topic, but the huge increase can be blamed on much higher taxes, with the aim of getting people to quit now that we know how dangerous cigs are. Try $9 a pack in NYC. People still smoke there though. :sick:
The trendline of complaints for four manufacturers—Ford, GM, Chrysler, and Toyota, however, float above their peers with occasional spikes, leading one to conclude that either these manufacturers have a problem, or the most confused consumers gravitate to their vehicles.
Oh, fine. Grasping for straws, the report surmised that the most confused drivers gravitate towards Toyota, Ford, GM and Chrysler products, because these SUA problems show up for these manufacturers more than the others.
Or, and here's where there might be some hurting and pain going on, these carmakers really do have a problem in their designs systems somewhere that is causing these sudden acceleration problems.
Ya think? I think that Toyota is the undisputed leader in these problems.
It was the driver`s stupidity and ignorance. Even if it was Chevy/Ford/Honda/Dodge -the same logic applies!!
I would shudder to think that an incorrect floor mat could cause 4 fatalities. I know I wouldn't had bothered to check whether the mats could or would bind the pedal.
Just suppose for a moment that it was your wife and kids killed in that car due to those mats. Would you consider her stupid and ignorant for not checking the mats or being unable to stop the car?
From the long article on SUA. I thought it was fair and balanced. A couple opinions struck me as valid.
Attorney (and engineer) Don Slavik, who represents Ezal, is hoping that NHTSA will take a second look at the problems of the 2005 Camry – although he isn’t sanguine about the outcome.
“It’s clear the NHTSA lacks the resources to fully investigate this. NHTSA does not have special staff with experience in electronic control systems – and their small staff is tasked with a wide range of responsibilities,” says Slavik of the Milwaukee firm, Habush, Habush & Rottier. “That’s where the tort system comes in to assist more fully in investigating this problem, which affects millions of vehicles.” Sean Kane, president of SRS agrees. “SUA presents unique and resource intensive investigation that can quickly overwhelm the NHTSA defects office. Further, the agency has a history of dismissing SUA unless there are mechanical or driver error issues, which only complicates matters.”
I would say this gives more insight into the way Toyota has acted. They believed the NHTSA would give them another bye, and they announced as much. Then got jerked back by the agency and put further into the limelight.
Dr. Antony Anderson, an electrical engineering consultant in the UK who has examined numerous SUA crashes, says that NHTSA’s definitive research report is neither definitive nor research. The agency based its report on nine underlying assumptions, but did not provide the basis for those assumptions. The agency defined sudden unintended acceleration as only instances where the vehicle lurches suddenly forward or in reverse from a standstill. This automatically discounted many other situations in which a vehicle’s throttle is wide open in direct contradiction to the driver’s demands, be it at full speed, a slow speed or in a cruise control mode. Further, he says, the systems that NHTSA examined in the late 1980s bear no resemblance to fully electronic throttle systems of today.
“It’s a travesty,” Anderson said. “That report has no relevance whatsoever, but manufacturers have sheltered themselves behind it for years.”
As far as class action lawsuits. This statement is far from true by my own experience.
Nobody with a real injury would be dumb enough to join in something like this...but all the scammers will be first in line for that free oil change.
The plastic pipes in an older mobile home that I own started splitting out causing damage. I got a plumber to replace the plastic with copper and reported it to my insurance. I was told that a class action suit a few years before against Shell Oil would cover the replacement costs. In my case it was $3500 I would have had to take out of my pocket as it was not covered in my homeowners policy. More than a oil change by far.
I would shudder to think that an incorrect floor mat could cause 4 fatalities.
I cannot help thinking about it every time I drive that stretch of freeway. My guess is those that defend Toyota the most adamantly, would scream the loudest if it was someone in their family.
Comments
killed by people that don't follow directions or use common sensekilled by those incorrectly designed Toyotas that the stupid, paid-off, etc. NHTSA said were correctly designed. :sick:I suppose you know Steve that Edmund's own Inside Line (Straightline Blog) has mentioned this broadcast, and IMO Straightline presents a very balanced, non hysterical view of the situation:
ABC has produced an investigative piece on the issue, wherein a few Toyota owners and an independent safety expert make the case that reports of unintended acceleration in Toyota/Lexus products cannot be written off to mere bunched-up floor mats.
Independent safety analyst Sean Kane, of the Vehicle Safety Information Resource Center, LLC (VSIRC), was interviewed for the story, and he says he has uncovered evidence of more than 200 accidents and a dozen deaths involving Toyota and Lexus vehicles that apparently accelerated out of control. His numbers come from another company, Safety Research & Strategies, Inc. (SRS), but neither Kane nor the SRS web site lays out those numbers in any kind of detail. Kane then speculates that electronic thottles may be the real culprit of unintended acceleration but offers nothing in support of that.
So, in the absence of hard evidence, we can't exactly describe ABC's report as a rigorous investigative piece. ABC does at least acknowledge that no engineers or automotive safety experts have been able to duplicate this condition in a Toyota or Lexus, and that NHTSA denied the latest petition for a defect investigation of the current-generation ES 350.
So what this boils down to are self-styled "safety experts" and a tabloid-type "news" story branding this as a serious problem. At the same time NHTSA has denied a petition for a defect investigation of the alleged "sudden acceleration."
The matter is not closed as NHTSA acknowledged today, because Toyota itself said it is looking into the root cause of the problem (if any) and will issue a follow-up letter to owners offering a more permanent solution (perhaps the "German" method). In the interim, the company is recommending the removal of driver floor mats in certain late-model Toyota and Lexus vehicles, or if the mats aren't removed, ensuring that the proper mat is used and secured by the retention hooks.
Is it possible to reprogram existing powertrain control systems in the cars already sold to reduce or eliminate acceleration if the system senses acceleration request and braking occurring simultaneously. That would be an easy fix if it could be done in the field on existing cars! It may save lives.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BTW gagrice, only VW/Audi have had this system for "nearly a decade," 2001 to be exact. BMW came on board in the 2005 model year, and Mercedes hasn't been very forthcoming, last I heard.
I missed it.
Here's the link:
Is There More to the Toyota Floor Mat Debacle?
Safety Research & Strategies apparently does a lot of business with *surprise* lawyers. And the phones should be ringing tomorrow.
As I said before, the post was well done; kudos to your colleague Erin Riches!
As long as the sensors give the right input to the computer... the safety feature would outweigh any argument over needing burnout capability at stoplights.
I just saw an ad for the new LaCrosse with a start button. I wonder if GM has a logical OFF capability for it like two pushes within a second or something more logical, to me at least, than holding for 3 seconds.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I know there wasn't any obvious way to zero the twin trip odometers. I finally managed by pressing the menu settings to zero trip 2, but not trip 1. I could easily argue that cars are getting too dang complicated.
The engine kill logic is a conundrum. . You don't want to make it too easy by accidentally hitting the button, but holding for 3 seconds may be too hard.
I'm losing track of what was said on what thread, but Prius owners decided you could just push the Park button to immediately kill the engine (with no harm done, because the transmission just goes into neutral if the car is moving).
Good question. I'm would imagine that on some vehicles, the PCM isn't equipped to do that, and it would require an expensive hardware replacement and not just a reprogram to accomplish that. Plus, even with a simple reflash, a non-trivial number of modules will get "bricked" or simply won't take the update and then will have to be replaced.
well, MB seems to be the auto sponser this year, so they had a line of sedans (not sure if they were C or E class, I think E).
One dude (younger guy) couldn't figure out how to ge the car started, or in gear! He had to get out, and find some local getting into his MB ML in the parking garage, and get him to come over to show him how to get the car moving.
That is just ridiculous to overengineer (reinvent a wheel that worked just fine?) like that.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It is beyond stupid.
HUGE PICTURE
I complained about it when it first came out because on cars with that shifter Mercedes has five separate stalks on the steering column.
1 & 2. You have the regular left and right stalks for wipers/blinkers/lights
3. Plus the power adjustment for the tilt/telescope.
4. Plus the cruise control stalk cause Mercedes gives you a whole separate stalk for that instead of putting it on another stalk or giving you buttons on the wheel.
5. The gear shifter wit its bizarre arrangement to get in and out of park/neutral.
Oh and there are also paddle shifter buttons in the back of the wheel that don't require a separate button to be pushed to be activated. It is very easy to downshift by accident when going into a turn or worse miss hit the resume on the Cruise control stalk because it is right next to the blinker stalk.
So you hit resume on a 35 mph corner when the Cruise Control was set for 65 and you downshift at the same time. That makes for a very interesting test drive believe me. :surprise:
It's all electronic now anyway. Why not just go back to the old Chrysler pushbuttons?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"multiple LCD screens, an app platform similar to the one for the iPhone, and a high speed LTE internet connection that promises to make 3G feel like dial-up. The set-up turns the car into a Wi-Fi hot spot, plays movies on demand, and lets passengers frag each other in multi-player games.
A camera embedded in the rearview mirror captures the road ahead, letting you pipe a video stream to the cloud. This will let you see the view from a connected car a quarter-mile ahead of you, so you can find out what’s causing that traffic jam up ahead. The system can also sense that traffic is becoming more compressed, warning you to slow down before you encounter a traffic compression."
Next-Gen Car Dashboard Talks to the Cloud (Wired)
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it was still investigating the case and meeting with Toyota to hear about the company's plan to redesign the vehicles and fix "this very dangerous problem."
U.S. criticizes Toyota statement on floor mats (MSNBC)
I did mis-judge the NHTSA on the weight of the Toyota statements on Monday. The Feds are not going to let Toyota shuffle this under the carpet.
Toyota said in a statement on Monday that NHTSA had confirmed "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."
But NHTSA said that was inaccurate and the government was investigating possible causes of the acceleration problem. Removing the floor mats was "simply an interim measure" and "does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design."
"The matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle based solution," NHTSA said in the statement, which the department said was issued to correct "inaccurate and misleading information" from the automaker.
When was the last time you saw someone ADMIT they made an error while driving?
My mom backed out of her admittedly difficult driveway, and a motorcyclist ran in to her car. He suffered only minor injuries, thankfully.
She said it was his fault! He was speeding. The speed limit is 60kph and he'd be dead if he weren't going slow.
Check the blind spot, listen for engines, but accept responsibility when you make a mistake. Even now, with the benefit of hindsight, she doesn't believe it was her fault.
I won't tell her about this mat issue because she'll probably blame that as well (she drives a Honda Fit).
'xplorer: do you really think that a person driving an ES sedan, with 4 people in the car, was in Sport mode? Not likely. So finding Neutral should have been easy.
NHTSA closed the case? I missed it, been super-busy at work.
Toyota is working on some kind of fix beyond the zip ties and asking owners to remove the driver's floor mat. Recalls don't cost the owners anything, except time and inconvenience. So any replacement mats will be free.
Yet look how quickly you rush to judgement... :P
On the same subject. I just got this email from our local BMW dealer advertising BMW Floor mats. Is this a dig at Lexus, or just a coincidence?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Special through the end of December $97.50 regular price $130.....
It probably is a poke at Lexus. Not very classy at that.
That needs to be brought out with more examples.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I did note earlier that the bottom of my Camrys' accelerator pedals are about an inch higher above the floor than in the 2010 Camry (and presumably the 2007-09 models).
Bob
If they didn't bother finding the right mat, I doubt they even looked for those anchors.
here is an edmunds link to the technique:
the prose describes driving a passat but pictures are from a focus
Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 2:31 a.m.
A Southern California law firm has filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of Toyota and Lexus owners who say their vehicles were involved in incidents of sudden acceleration.
The Redlands-based firm of McCuneWrightsaid it filed the suit Thursday in the name of two Los Angeles County residents who have experienced multiple cases of unintended speeding.
“For years, Toyota Motor Corp. has dismissed complaints of sudden acceleration as being the driver’s fault,” attorney David Wright said in a statement. “But neither driver error nor floor mats can explain away many other frightening instances of runaway Toyotas. Until the company acknowledges the real problem and fixes it, we worry that other preventable injuries and deaths will occur.”
Toyota is advising owners to remove all driver-side mats from certain Toyota and Lexus models and is preparing for a recall, once the automaker and federal officials determine the underlying defects that may be behind the incidents.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/nov/07/class-action-suit-filed-for-toyot- a-owners/
November 6, 2009 4:49 PM EST
REDLANDS, Calif., Nov. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The law firm of McCuneWright, LLP, filed a national class action lawsuit yesterday against Toyota Motor Corporation on behalf of Toyota and Lexus owners who have experienced incidents of sudden unintended acceleration.
Los Angeles County residents Seong Bae Choi, the owner of a 2004 Camry and Chris Chan Park, who owns a 2008 FJ Cruiser, will represent the class. Both have experienced multiple instances of sudden unintended acceleration in their respective vehicles, Choi and Park are also among the thousands of Toyota and Lexus owners who have experienced incidents of sudden unintended acceleration while driving their vehicles, and among the millions who are potentially affected by this dangerous defect.
This, however, is not the only fatal crash resulting from sudden unintended acceleration in Toyota and Lexus models. Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., has reported at least 16 fatalities and 243 injuries in crashes involving Toyotas that have been attributed to sudden unintended acceleration. In total, there have been more than 2,000 complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in these vehicles, culled from litigation and consumer-reported complaints to the automaker and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
http://www.streetinsider.com/Press+Releases/Class+Action+Lawsuit+Filed+Against+T- oyota+to+Correct+Sudden+Acceleration/5085310.html
Some here did not believe me when I predicted this would bring them out of the woodwork. Maybe I can throw my skipping CD player into the Class action suit.
Probably not as the New NAV arrived from India yesterday, and will be installed Monday.
This, however, is not the only fatal crash resulting from sudden unintended acceleration in Toyota and Lexus models. Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., has reported at least 16 fatalities and 243 injuries in crashes involving Toyotas that have been attributed to sudden unintended acceleration. In total, there have been more than 2,000 complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in these vehicles, culled from litigation and consumer-reported complaints to the automaker and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
We have mentioned some 6 crashes since 2000 invloving stuck accelerators in Toyota vehicles, or was it 9 crashes. Doesn't matter how good our memories are, now we have this lawyer-culled information that lists 16 fatalities and 243 injuries and a total of more than 2,000 complaints.
This still might just be accelerator pedals mushed in the "full on" position due to aggressive floor mats. To think that. When it's so easy ta let your mind wander to something else, like ECU's of some sort, huh?
To be more accurate as to NHTSA releases, though, we have to make sure we mention that they're taking a close look at the floor pans installed in subject vehicles as well. In their workings with the pedals and mats. Pedals and mats and pans, pedals and mats and pans...oh pedals and mats and pans. Interesting how I can turn most anything in to a blues riff.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It was the driver`s stupidity and ignorance. Even if it was Chevy/Ford/Honda/Dodge -the same logic applies!! :shades:
Nobody with a real injury would be dumb enough to join in something like this...but all the scammers will be first in line for that free oil change.
If the attorneys make any money on this you can be sure that every other car manufacturer might as well line up for their turn. Cigarettes used to cost 25 cents a pack and now I hear that they are about $5. Mostly due to lawsuits. I can't wait to plunk down $200,000. for a Yaris.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Just looked him up on his website:
Who We Are
Established in July 2004 by Sean Kane, Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., is staffed with research professionals who specialize in safety matters.
Mr. Kane began his work in 1991 with the Center for Auto Safety, the advocacy organization established by Ralph Nader in Washington D.C. As a co-founder of Strategic Safety, and later, as president of Safety Research & Strategies, Mr. Kane has remained at the forefront of safety issues and trends, from Electronic Stability Control to aging tires. He continues to offer unique solutions to the problems of investigating and analyzing product defects and to federal agency investigations and rulemakings
Mr. Kane’s work on behalf of clients and the public has prompted federal investigations, aided in the successful resolution of important litigation, and alerted the public of significant vehicle safety hazards. His investigations and analyses of defects have led to recalls of millions of vehicles and components that have inflicted serious and deadly injuries to consumers, ranging from heater core ruptures, engine fires, failed electronics, and tires.
Mr. Kane was instrumental in revealing the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire debacle in the U.S. His research exposed Ford’s overseas recalls to the public in July 2000 and led to three campaigns to recall the tires. In 2006, subsequent research revealed that unused Firestone spares, never replaced in the 2000 and 2001 recalls, were being put into service, only to fail quickly causing more rollover deaths and serious injuries. As a result, Firestone launched an owner re-notification program in July 2006.
Mr. Kane is the founder of the Vehicle Safety Information Resource Center, a company that provides researchers with the tools to locate and obtain vehicle safety data and documents from government sources, he is the editor of The Safety Record, a bi-monthly publication that covers the “inside baseball” of motor vehicle and product safety, and co-chairs the CDC-sponsored Massachusetts Prevent Injury Now! Network, a group that supports injury prevention efforts as the state level.
Mr. Kane is a frequent source and commentator to the broadcast and print media and his work continues to serve as the foundation for successful identification and resolution of many vehicle and product safety matters.
SRS research staff includes Tony Di Viesti Esq., BSME, Melanie MacDonald, Ann Boudreau, Lauri Stevenson MLS, Ellen Liberman, Felix Click MLIS, Marilyn Charest, Brad Pugh, Sharon Mitchell, and Ryan Gousie
SRS also maintains contractors in Detroit, Europe, Australia, and Japan.
Hmm, he started at the Center for Auto Safety and seems to have developed a rather large ego....Didn't know he was so "instrumental in revealing the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire debacle in the U.S." :surprise:
Off topic, but the huge increase can be blamed on much higher taxes, with the aim of getting people to quit now that we know how dangerous cigs are. Try $9 a pack in NYC. People still smoke there though. :sick:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
See this (note: very small font, and infamous white letters on black background).
Oh, fine. Grasping for straws, the report surmised that the most confused drivers gravitate towards Toyota, Ford, GM and Chrysler products, because these SUA problems show up for these manufacturers more than the others.
Or, and here's where there might be some hurting and pain going on, these carmakers really do have a problem in their designs systems somewhere that is causing these sudden acceleration problems.
Ya think? I think that Toyota is the undisputed leader in these problems.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I would shudder to think that an incorrect floor mat could cause 4 fatalities. I know I wouldn't had bothered to check whether the mats could or would bind the pedal.
Just suppose for a moment that it was your wife and kids killed in that car due to those mats. Would you consider her stupid and ignorant for not checking the mats or being unable to stop the car?
Attorney (and engineer) Don Slavik, who represents Ezal, is hoping that NHTSA will take a second look at the problems of the 2005 Camry – although he isn’t sanguine about the outcome.
“It’s clear the NHTSA lacks the resources to fully investigate this. NHTSA does not have special staff with experience in electronic control systems – and their small staff is tasked with a wide range of responsibilities,” says Slavik of the Milwaukee firm, Habush, Habush & Rottier. “That’s where the tort system comes in to assist more fully in investigating this problem, which affects millions of vehicles.” Sean Kane, president of SRS agrees. “SUA presents unique and resource intensive investigation that can quickly overwhelm the NHTSA defects office. Further, the agency has a history of dismissing SUA unless there are mechanical or driver error issues, which only complicates matters.”
I would say this gives more insight into the way Toyota has acted. They believed the NHTSA would give them another bye, and they announced as much. Then got jerked back by the agency and put further into the limelight.
Dr. Antony Anderson, an electrical engineering consultant in the UK who has examined numerous SUA crashes, says that NHTSA’s definitive research report is neither definitive nor research. The agency based its report on nine underlying assumptions, but did not provide the basis for those assumptions. The agency defined sudden unintended acceleration as only instances where the vehicle lurches suddenly forward or in reverse from a standstill. This automatically discounted many other situations in which a vehicle’s throttle is wide open in direct contradiction to the driver’s demands, be it at full speed, a slow speed or in a cruise control mode. Further, he says, the systems that NHTSA examined in the late 1980s bear no resemblance to fully electronic throttle systems of today.
“It’s a travesty,” Anderson said. “That report has no relevance whatsoever, but manufacturers have sheltered themselves behind it for years.”
As far as class action lawsuits. This statement is far from true by my own experience.
Nobody with a real injury would be dumb enough to join in something like this...but all the scammers will be first in line for that free oil change.
The plastic pipes in an older mobile home that I own started splitting out causing damage. I got a plumber to replace the plastic with copper and reported it to my insurance. I was told that a class action suit a few years before against Shell Oil would cover the replacement costs. In my case it was $3500 I would have had to take out of my pocket as it was not covered in my homeowners policy. More than a oil change by far.
I would shudder to think that an incorrect floor mat could cause 4 fatalities.
I cannot help thinking about it every time I drive that stretch of freeway. My guess is those that defend Toyota the most adamantly, would scream the loudest if it was someone in their family.