Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

mark156

Encino, the new ML doesn't look like a Pontiac Aztek to me but looks almost exactly like the Kia Sorrento (?) SUV. The headlight assembly looks interchangeable with the Mercedes. I also don't like the new ML... too much black plastic on the front-end (the grille, the plastic around the fog lights and the plastic on top of the hood near the windshield).

Getting back to the DL # and SS #, I'm sure it's a requirement to ask for this information in my state when paying cash but I don't think my dealer asked. If they did, I certainly don't recall it. I guess it was such and easy transaction that it must have felt comfortable handing over the info.

I'm sure the dealer would need to verify that I'm the person buying the car, etc. So, I completely understand if they need it.

Also, the Porsche Cayenne is only a 5 passenger vehicle but I'm not sure if I would even consider it if it seated more. The only American manufacturer that I would "halfway" consider is the Cadillac SRX but the dashboard is a master of plastic work. I find the outside rather attractive but the interior could use some "Lexus" touches. The ingress/egress is very awkward in this vehicle.

Mark

jhs70

It's actually a truck, a titan king cab or a CC.

capitano

I think it is true. New cars are nearly a commodity and it is relatively easy for a shopper to determine the cost to the dealer and the market value of the car. Used cars are much more unique and there is no way to know how much the dealer has invested in them. It is much harder to compare used cars because there is more to it than just miles on the odometer. The used car dealer knows you may find similar vehicles to what he has, but never an identical one.

bdr127

Dealers are only paying the $17/$18 range for the twin to yours at the auctions - and $21,500 is a Retail figure

Actually, it looks worse than that..... Current national Manheim auction listings show 243 2001 ML320s for week ending 9/12. Average price is $16,277 with average miles of 55,903. Yeah, the miles are higher than yours, but probably not enough to even justify a $2000 jump. Just my two cents....

asafonov

Actually by law it is required, you have to report to the IRS, and I believe the Dept of Justice, for any cash transaction over 10K(there's a special form for it)

I thought this was discussed before... a certified or a personal check is not a cash transaction, the bank you are drawing the funds from is responsible for complying with the money laundering law(s). And if you pick up the vehicle *after* the personal check clears, the dealer does not need to run credit history at all.

also with the Patriot Act you need to have photo ID for every transaction.

Somehow I doubt you have seen the actual text of the Patriot Act. If you could cite the appropriate portion (send me an email if you don't believe it belongs in this forum).

Disclaimer: not a dealer, never was, but as a buyer I did not have to provide SSN for a new car purchase post 9-11. The dealership did require proof of insurance and drivers license.

austru

Your 100% right, if the check has already cleared there is no need for a credit check, but most people take delivery of the vehicle BEFORE the check has cleared the account, as for your comment on not actually reading the patriot act I have for full text go to www.findlaw.com if you would like to read it. the exact portion that dealerships seem to go buy is about 85 pages in. There is an exert that basically says that anyone who has a financial relationship is required to prove positive ID, this applies more to financial institutions, but in a lot of cases where the dealer is the middle man, they will not fund a contract without positive ID i.e. license. I will admit that the actual wording is vague and I am by no means an expert in this. From what I've read and heard, this seems to be a standard practice at most dealerships. Again it's all interpretation, you could see it differently. :shades:

mudlump

Hi!
I want to buy a new car but it has the dealers name on the back.
I need to know if it's possible to get that name off of the car without
tearing up the paint/finish or if I should just find a different car.
Thanks!!!

robr2

Ask the sales rep to ask the porter if it is glued on or drilled on? If it's glued on, tell them to remove it with dental floss or fishing line.

If it's drilled on, keep shopping.

bdr127

Here is the IRS's definition of "cash" and what is required in order for the transaction to be reported to the IRS:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p1544/ar02.html

mudlump

Thanks so much!!!
I will check it out. Hopefully it's just glued and then it will come off.
I didn't even THINK it could have been drilled on!!
Thanks!

asafonov

Thanks for posting the link. If I can summarize:

a personal or a bank check is not considered cash UNLESS it is for less than $10,000 AND is a part of a transaction involving $10,000 or more in cash. As an example, if I am buying something costing $15,000, giving the buyer $7,000 in cash and $8,000 in a cashiers/personal check, the buyer DOES need to report to the IRS, as this can be construed as money laundering. OTOH, if I just provide a check for $15,000, the issuing bank is supposed to have taken care of reporting, as I wrote above.

austru: apologies if I came off rude in my posting, no offence meant.

austru

none taken, open debate is why we come here right?

volvomax

As a rule, dealers do make more on used than new cars.
This is for a variety of reasons. The major one is that there is no way to reliably figure out what a dealer has tied up in a used car and then off a small profit.

Also, dealers don't actually "fix" much anymore. Most of their work is in replacing parts.
Occasionally, a dealer will farm out work to a specialty shop, but that is pretty rare.

boomchek

In regards to your Audi A4 here are the following trade in values using the BC Auto Dealers Assoc.:

Bottom book: $8500
Avg: $10750
Good: $12250
Top book: $13750

Rarely any cars fetch top book so over here expect about $11000 for a decent shape A4. I don't know if in the Maritimes the value would be more or less but I hope this helps.

rroyce10

...... Thats why you have to careful about reading things .... the average could change tomorrow if a dealer ran 5 clean super low mileage vehicles thru .....

Terry.

nwalbert

I would say mine is good, so hopefully I get at least $12,000 for it. Since I have basically agreed to buy his car at sticker and it is an 05, is it liekly that he is basically just taking some off of that and applying it to the trade allowance?

I know its impossible for you to know for sure, just trying to see if this is the ways deals generally work.

Thanks for the help,
Scott

boomchek

What a dealer will pay for your A4 depedns onthe market conditions in your area, as to how mnay A4s are out there for sale, if it's rare or not, if it's hard to service etc.

A4's don't have a stellar reliability history so if there's no Audi dealers in your area then they might be hard to service and may not be as hot sellers as they are here in BC.

And sometimes dealers do take off the gross (margin) they have in the new car you're buying and apply it to the trade in to show you more money for the trade in hence they can't discount the car anymore because that money went into the trade in.

The bottom line you you should be looking at is the difference before taxes. Say TSX MSRP is $30000, your trade is $12000, difference is $18000.

Now if dealer B sells the TSX for $29000, but only pays you $11000 for trade in then the difference is still $18000. So for you it's important to look at the bottom line, or even out the door (OTD) price after taxes and fees.

Hope this helps.

Maciek

ifyoubuildit

Isn't a Soc. Sec # required to title a vehicle?

bolivar

Unless you get into taxes or payroll or other Federal reporting, there actually is very little where a SSN is REQUIRED.

The Soc Sec Adm itself states your SSN is NOT to be used for identification.

Many of these people requesting a SSN don't have a legal basis to stand on.

I think most, or all, states stopped using SSN on driver licenses.

Insurance and medical may have legal basis for requiring. Laws passed in last 10 years or so in these areas define this.

rroyce10

..... Yep, it's on the back of most titles .... depending on the state ....

Terry.

rroyce10

... **Regarding any new clubs. ....I spent a boatload of money last year for an entire new set of custom made clubs custom fitted to me. Result?

I went from an 11 handicap with my old clubs to a 13 handicap this year with my "new custom jobs"** ...

It's just like cars, some prefer the new "X" model and some like the seats in the ABC model, so it depends on the clubs and the person, it's "really" a feely touchy thing .... I had spent the time to test every driver out there, at least with 50/60 balls on each one .. some were good, some were just hype (for me) some were average, so that was a 3 month test .... now my irons, that was my fault .. the reviews were "astounding" and "they said" they were sooooo forgiving, but not too me ..l.o.l.... but the new ones have been a huuuuuge difference, I mean almost sureal .... but this time I got a 3 day on the links test - I guess I just got lucky .. put some different grips on em' - and Wango Tango ... 200 yrd shots with a 4 iron that are super accurate...? -- where have you been all my life you little darlin's ...? ...l.o.l......

Terry :P

mazda6iguy

Just wondering when will the Ford Fusion arrive in dealers?

bdr127

Is this website brand new? There aren't any dealers of any brand reviewed in a 50 mile radius of me....

**Update: There is only 1 dealer review within a 50 mile radius of New York City.... Hmmm....

(Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this stinks like spam... :confuse: )

mirth

Spam. Plus, Edmunds already has Customer Reviews, and more of them. Just a transparent bit of advertising.

stickguy

I haven't gotten a straight answer, but shortly. I think they should be in by the beginning of October, if not sooner.

asafonov

mirth, can you post a link to these Edmunds dealer reviews?

mudlump

None in HOUSTON, none in SAN ANTONIO!!!
Don't waste your time looking at this site.

Kirstie_H

Obviously.

rroyce10

...... None in Florida ..... sniff sniff what do I smell here .....?

Terry.

chris333

I want to sell my car. It is paid off, and I got the original invoice from the finance company, marked as paid. I live in NY and they(finance co.) say in this state, I hold the title from the begining. I bought the car new. But I can't find it. Is it hard to get a replacement? What will I need? Plaese help!

rowlandj

Just check on the NY DMV web-site - they should have what you need there.

JR

jhs70

Help!! I need some advice from you savvy forum members.

I recently received a really nice price quote from a dealer on an 05 vehicle. Seriously considering it. A day later he tells me that the owner of the dealership has been driving it, and it now has over 4k miles on it. I ask him to revise his number since, to me, it's a "used" vehicle, albeit not by much.

Is this really a "used" vehicle now? It's probably not been titled, although I don't know for sure. I would imagine the owner's been tooling around in it with dealer tags. That's what they do, right? And finally, am I off base to assume that he should reduce his price? Love the vehicle, just not sure what to do.

Thanks.

stickguy

how is that for a savvy answer?

Anyway, you pretty much have it right, although some states may have different rules about mileage. But, it is probably technically still "new" since it will be titled that way to you as the original owner. So while it may not sell as a used car (or be priced as such), you should certainly expect a discount for the mileage.

Also, you may have issues with the warranty start date, so be clear about that.

IMO, you should get some discount, because they used up some of your finite supply of miles. If they don't agree, ask what happens if you go over mileage on a lease!

$.10-$.20 is a normal per mile charge for leases, so that would be $400 - $800 they used up. epending on how bad you want the car, and whether you can find another '05 like it, ask for a discount somewhere in this range.

jhs70

Thanks, good info.

He claimed that I got pretty much "all of it" when we landed on the price (before the revelation). He said there was about $200 left for the dealership. Fine, I know it was a heck of a deal, based on new car values. I'm not so much hung up on the new vs. demo vs. used issue is as I am on what's a reasonable price for this vehicle. I think he should accommodate me in some fashion but I'm not sure how much. Maybe I'll float your offer and see what he says.
Thanks!

isellhondas

The price he quoted you reflected the miles. 4000 miles isn't much and it doesn't lessen the value very much.

You can always offer less and see what happens.

mark156

jhs70, it would make a big difference if it is a European vehicle.... I don't think I would buy a new Mercedes/Jaguar/BMW/Land Rover/Volvo/Aston Martin with 4,000 miles for just $400-$800 off a regular 'no mile' unit.

What kind of car are you considering at this "nice price"?

Mark

jhs70

This is an 05 Titan. Update: I offered $400 less and he took it. But then he made a mistake (I think). He said that my new price (old offer minus 400) would be the OTD price. If that's the case then whoa, that's an even better deal. He must have made a mistake. I'm in the process of clarifying it.

geo9

Before you sign the papers check the titan problems threads
here and ask Terry about the crummy resale value !!!!!!

audia8q

Before you pull the trigger....take a look around for a guy who just discovered that gas is $3.00plus. Alot of folks are figuring out that the big truck they purchased 6 months ago to drive around wasn't such a good idea...

Having a Hemi or a big V8 now is like having a rash...LOL

jhs70

I hear ya, however I don't put that many miles on my vehicles, so while I don't revel in the high price of gas, it's just not that big of a deal to me. Second, with all due respect, if MPG were my overriding concern, I'd buy a Prius instead of a truck.

Yes, I've read about the brake issues with these bad boys and it seems to have been resolved in the 05 models. I suppose something could creep up, but that can happen on any vehicle. My 250 was great for 3 or 4 months, then several little annoying things started popping up.

As for resale, it's mighty hard to find used Titans in my area, esp. 05s, and I've looked real hard. I can say this: the prices on the ones I've found are not bargain basement prices. Who knows what owners are actually getting though. But then, seems like every truck, with the possible exception of the Tundra, seems to depreciate pretty rapidly.

Hey, it's only money burning a hole in my pocket!

british_rover

CT makes us get a SS# even for transactions that don't involove financing. They just changed the law I think last month and one of the things they sited was complying with the patriot act.

zodiac2004

The price he quoted you reflected the miles. 4000 miles isn't much and it doesn't lessen the value very much.

Craig,
Are you serious :surprise:
A demo with 4000 miles isn't worth anywhere near a new one.
Post the actual details over at RWTIV and Terry will give you a real-world estimate on what it's worth.

isellhondas

As much as I respect Terry, I am already WELL aware of the value of a 4000 mile demo vs. a non demo.

Remember...I do this for a living.

Sure, it's worth less money, but not THAT much less. A lot of buyer's don't even care all that much. Others who DO care, should simply pass and buy a new one.

As far as troubles with Titans...if you read ANY forum you will find people with problems. These forums attract this.

mikezoomzoom

DEMO... never been tagged or registered.

The numbers and figures to be dealt with are the same as one with only 12 miles. The only difference would be if there is any manufacturers support for demonstrator mileage. This is not always the case.

Don't be confused... this is not a used car.

zodiac2004

Craig,

I know what you do and respect your opinion and views. But I find it hard to believe this Titan, which isn't known for stellar reliability or depreciation, wouldn't depreciate atleast 1500-2000 under these circumstances.
Now if it's an Accord or Civic I would agree with you.

geo9

If ya pulled the head outta the sand.................

The titan would be one of ANYBODYS choices............

Look at Akangles posts of her 04 AND 05s...............

But as a "smart shopper" I would ignore all that and BUY that 4000
mile vehicle at whatever price the dealer wants.........................

akangl

Look at Akangles posts of her 04 AND 05s...............

Since I see my name pop up I'll jump in. Both of mine were 04s, my 04 LE has 20k miles on it and no real problems since 6k miles. As far as depreciation, ANY V8 truck is going to take a hit right now (ha, try trading a V10, we know, we own one). If you take MSRP and then look at Nada trade on ANY of the big 3 you will see more depreciation than on a Titan.

Sure the Titans aren't perfect, but Nissan stepped up to the plate and is taking good care of the owners. I'd like to see Dodge/Ford/Chevy warranty the brakes for 3 years/unlimited miles because of a rotor warpage problem........not only that but have a new kit redesigned for the trucks.

We currently own a Dodge and it passed through 3 owners before we got it, the reason.........nobody could keep the steering gear box from going out. We took it to a Ford dealer to fix it, no problems in the past 25k miles. All vehicles have problems, even Honda and Toyota, remember, they are hunks of metal built buy humans and robots..........they ain't gonna be perfect.

That said, how about not bashing the new kid on the block (the Titan) and just concentrating on the questions.

jlawrence01

akangl -

You were singing a different tune when the car was in the shop for weeks ....

Nissan certainly has mastered the "WOW" factor in that they design some hot-looking cars. However, I am starting to wonder if it is done at the expense of quality. Phil Edmundston over at LemonAid Cars who has owned several Nissans over the years was commenting on his wensite that the Altima has been less reliable since the redesign based on his experiences in the Canadian market.

akangl

Sure I was, anyone would have been if their $37k truck was sitting at the dealer and they were driving a rental. However, that was over 14,000 miles ago and so far things have been ok. We've put major towing miles on this summer with no issues.

I agree that sometimes the WOW factor does come at the expense of reliability, however, I think that's pretty much across the board with all manufacturers. Nissan still builds good cars and trucks, I think they will get it together once again.

rroyce10

shhhhhh, quiet ...... don't remind Aka of those 137 posts over the 3 months about her Titan problems ............



Terry.