Got some prices thru edmonds.com and went to a local dealer. Didn't have all the internet responses, (tapping foot impatiently). The dealer that did take me for a test drive was working and I asked him to put in writing his best price for a 2004 Camry. I intend to buy within a week.
I was going to be a "poker face", but never could pull that off *sigh*. So, when he quoted me $1,000 OVER the best price I received, he saw the look on my face and asked me what the best price was I'd received on the internet. Well, I didn't quite tell him the absolute bottom at first, and I did have more quotes that hadn't come in. But he told me he couldn't sell me the car for the price I got on the net -- he even guessed who one of the dealers was that gave me the low price. He even got up and "went to ask a manager" whether he could meet the offer I'd received elsewhere.
He told me to come back with my email offer when I was ready to buy and he'd TRY to see if he could meet the price at that time.
I'm torn, I didn't get an internet price from that dealership because I'd already talked to this salesguy. But he was given a chance to MEET the price, and he never did give me a written quote.
Anybody see any reason I should give him a 3rd chance? (I'd asked him for a written quote the previous time I'd gone in and he never gave me one then either.)
I'm leaning towards blowing him off & going directly to the low price dealer . . . guess I'm asking permission . . .
Was the internet price quote an Out-the-Door price that included everything - including taxes and the dreaded Dealer Service Charge, which can be several hundred dollars in our area?
If not, then you don't really know what the car will cost you at that dealer.
I suggest you compute the OTD price you are willing to pay, go to your local dealer, and offer that price. Yeah, you heard me right. Don't beat around the bush and ask them for a price. Just make you offer and see what happens.
I bet they will accept. If not, walk out and come back here for more advice.
bowke28 - I've invested a lot of my time in this effort as well. Have spent hours comparing vehicles on line, sitting in them, checking them out in person (and no, I didn't take any salesman's time when I started my quest for a vehicle, I told 'em up front I was just looking at the time and that if someone came in they felt was ready to buy a car, just to say so & go make $, and asked them to give me their card so I could get back to them when I was ready.)
It's a matter of about $1,700 OTD. And I did wind up telling him the low price I got. He just said to come in with the email when I was ready to buy and he'd see whether he could meet the price.
I called him on the phone today, told him the price I had IN WRITING (same price as I told him last weekend) and told him I'd be there in 30 minutes if he could meet that price. He said I need to come in WITH the written offer and then he'll see if he can meet it.
Both dealers involved are convenient to me (So Calif is LOADED with dealerships!)
As I said, when I was getting internet prices, the website substituted the dealership I'd visited in person for one that wasn't available (that I had marked to check for a price). When the internet rep from the local place called me, I told him I'd already been to his shop and that I didn't know whether it was "kosher" for him to give me an internet quote since I was already dealing with a sales rep from that dealership, (gave him the rep's name). He just said ok, bye. Was I wrong to be honest with the internet dealer from that place? Should I have played the game & gotten their internet quote? Would THAT have been fair to the sales rep that had taken time with me?
I'm TRYING to do this all ethically . . . had he given me a written quote last week for the low price I told him I had from the internet, he'd have completed his sale today. I just can't going back to him again when I can't be sure he'll meet the offer I have. And I don't want to waste a couple more hours of his or my time if he can't/won't meet the offer.
You indicated that your salesperson was able to indentify the dealer that provided you with the internet quote. My alarm would be tingling at that time. Have you pursued the matter with your internet dealer, I would be concerned that they would have built up a reputation through lowballing people.
If they can truly provide a similar or equivalent car at the lower price, than go for it. I can't comprehend the amount of time that you appear to be spending on this process.
At the end of the day when the deal is finally done, a shopper might end up "saving" another 100.00 by pitting one dealer against the other.
Is it worth it?
I'm from So. Calif and I can assure you, that is one miserable marketplace. The average salesperson probably lasts two months in that cutthroat marketplace.
I never fail to be amazed to watch what some people will put themselves through in their quest to get the "best price".
I tell you, it don't take no "couple hours" to have an offer accepted or rejected.
Go to the dealer closest to you and make an offer. If it isn't accepted within 10 minutes, assume it was rejected and leave. No ones time is wasted that way.
...I'm with bobst on that. I've never had a car negotiation take more than 15 minutes, and that's with two trips back to the sales manager. Of course, I made an offer rather than monkeying around trying to get quotes.
Now, I'm firmly convinced that if I had gone to all the dealerships around me (within 40 miles or so), I could have saved another $200-$300 on my car. But it's not worth it to me to go to all that hassle to save what amounts to around $50/year. YMMV.
Guess I'm not sure why this is under Dealer Tricks. Is it because they would give you a written price quote? Nobody does that.
I just purchased two Nissan vehicles (Sentra and Xterra) from a dealership here in New Orleans. We got a good price on them, without question (for the two cars together, we paid about $1100 less than Edmunds TMV), but I was still seriously annoyed when we had arrived at an agreement about EVERYTHING, we were ready to sign documents, and suddenly a $395 (per vehicle) "consumer services" fee showed up on the bill. I hate -- let me say that again -- I ***HATE*** having charges suddenly appear on a bill after I've agreed on a price. Despite the good deal we were getting, I almost walked out of the dealership, simply out of principle. I think that they knew I was ready to walk out, because they at least knocked $100 off each $395 fee, bringing it down to "only" a $590 add-on between the two cars, instead of nearly $800.
This otherwise inexplicable charge was explained to us as a contract that the dealership has with Enterprise Rent-a-Car whereby, if my vehicle is in the shop for more than four hours, I get a free rental car for the duration of the repair. You can get a hell of a lot of rental car time for $800. I was basically told that the contract was "already paid for," and that there was no choice, that it was part of every car they sell. Worse, it's only valid for the first year we own the cars. Basically, it feels to me like a scam, especially being added on at the very last minute like that.
The only thing that kept me from walking out of the dealership was the fact that we've been shopping for almost a year. My car has almost 200,000 miles on it, and my wife has a new job, so we need two cars. We've sat in literally dozens off dealerships, spent countless hours with sales managers trying to bully us, we've had nearly every trick in the book tried on us, and we're utterly exhausted by it at this point. If I had not been 99.9% convinced that we were getting a really good price for good vehicles, at a time when we really need them, I would have simply walked away and never gone back.
Does anybody out there have any experience with these kinds of last-minute add-on "consumer services"? Is there any truth to this "we've already paid for it, everybody has to have it" argument, or did they basically just jack up the price $600 over what they had agreed on? Given the prices we got, I hate to make an official complaint about this dealership, but it really annoys me, just on principle. If I sell somebody an apple for $1, they get to the cash register and when the money is in their hand I say "oh, there's also a $0.10 pesticide fee," then I really wasn't honest about my original price.
Thoughts?
(For reference, here's what we got: Sentra 1.8S Manual, road trip package, floor mats/trunk mat, microfilter. Edmunds TMV after rebates: $12,065. Our final price: $11,302. Xterra XE, V6, Manual, World Championship package, Protection package, autodimming EC mirror, floor mats w/o subwoofer, body side molding, splash guards, microfilter. Edmunds TMV after rebates: 19,047. Our final price: $18,709. Total TMV minus our total price = $1101. So, it has nothing to do with getting "ripped off," it's just the principle of adding on a totally unnecessary and unwanted charge AFTER negotiations have been completed.)
if you havent taken delivery yet, make your offer an "OTD" offer, instead of leaving the doors open for these things...
this is a total BS statement about "its already paid for".
if you have taken delivery, ask for a copy of the contract with enterprise, so you can keep it...just in case you are out of town or something. if they cant produce the documentation, unwind the deal, or demand the $600 back.
shopping for almost a year? come on, your kidding right?
anyone who rewards ANY retailer with a sale for doing something sleazy is a fool in my book. Essentially your telling the retailer to keep on screwing people, because you rewarded them for doing it to you.
Looks like you had paralysis by analysis. You had spent so much time looking at the trees you didn't see the forest. Very simple really. What is your OTD price period.
You grab the contracts, mark the bottom number down by the $300 they jacked up the price, write out the check/s for this amount, put these back on the table, say 'take it or leave it'.
my son leased a brand new car last may 3.sadly he had an accident on may 11 at 1:30am,before this happened i talked with the dealer 2x to extend his temporay insurance which lapses in 7 days which is on may 10,because his new car insurance won't be processed in 7 more business days,the dealer said he will do it,now it seems like the dealer didn't extend his car insurance and i'm having a problem with the dealer and the body shop fixing my son's car. the dealer is blaming me,first, that i shouldn't have let my son drive the car without the insurance,he didn't told me that it doesn't have any insurance,that he didnt extend it ,i wouldnt take the risk of course,second,he said that i should have gotten the car insurance asap ,i did, i did not even scout for an insurance that is cheaper all i did is get the first one who can process it the fastest,i actually sent all documents and payment to the insurance company in 4 days after we got the car.the dealer said the temporary car insurance only paid $2000 and this is all that they can do,they dont want to deal with the body shop owner anymore and they let me talked with the owner,which i didnt know that honda doesnt have any body shop,the owner said he already have done 80% of the repair and it already cost him $7000,and he said that honda has nothing to do with him anymore its between him and me,he also said that he didnt know that the car has an expired insurance,and that he knows that he doesnt have the order to repair it yet, but still he did it ,and he said he wont stop repairing it until its done,i've been harrassed by him. honda is making it looked like its our fault,and we have to pay for the rest of the damages,we dont have that kind of money if we did i guess i should have just paid the car in cash. i'm so confused and scared of whats happening ,maybe someone can give any advice thank you so much.
ive never heard of a dealer providing insurance. nor have i heard of an insurance company taking a week to provide coverage. we're not getting the whole story.
...... ** it seems like the dealer didn't extend his car insurance **
It's the dealers responsibility to verify his insurance for his own and the lenders protection .. but there is no way a dealer can "extend" anyones insurance ....
Jersey lives in Jersey. It can take you a week of full-time effort just to get an agent to give you an appointment to maybe consider giving you insurance.
Still, if you have a current policy, it just takes a phone call to have a car added to the policy (the paper work will arrive later, but you are covered immediately). Take my word for it, the dealer won't give you the car until they have verified the insurance is in place (it also goes on the temp tag they issue).
I have never heard of a dealer getting temp insurance (just registrations, which I believe are for 30 days), so soemthing is funky here.
What body shop would ever start major repairs without verifcation that the car is covered under insurance.... something is major wrong with this story.
If the "son" leased it, they should be dealing with the "son".
M.
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
you are right that getting insurance in nj will take you weeks especially if you are a new driver and male under 28 years old.
Yes, we( me and my husband ) do have a existing policy with other insurance, but being a strict disciplinarian my husband is, he wants my son to take full responsibility for his things.. such clothes,room, CAR etc..so he wants him to have the car on his name only, and his individual insurance.
When we got the car, the dealer gave us what you called binder policy good for 7 days (i thought it was called temporary insurance). Knowing that it is impossible the get the actual insurance before 7 days i called the financing officer of the dealer twice and told him that he needs to extend the policy, he then assured me that it was no problem he will fix right away. Yeah right..he only made the effort to request an extension only when he knew my son got into an accident. Now, i would like to thank everybody who gave an effort to send feedback .Is there anybody who can give me idea on my son's right or protection under the binder policy?
"You shopped for a YEAR, went from dealer to dealer I would suspect, grinding the prices down to nothing"
Not at all. You misinterpret what I said about shopping for a year. Here's the deal: we've known for a long time that my car needed to be replaced at some point in the near future, and we've been trying to decide what to replace it with. We've looked at Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai. We even considered a small Ford truck at one point. We spent a lot of time evaluating and re-evaluating our needs, reading reviews of various vehicles, test-driving, inquiring, pricing, etc. (It obviously wasn't an emergency, and we were taking our time.) We struggled for a long time over this question: do we buy vehicles that we'll really like and will want to drive into the ground, as I did with my Acura, or do we buy something cheaper, that eases our budget right now, but that we'll want to replace five years down the line, when our budget is a little more flush? ALL THAT is what took a year. That, combined with going from dealer to dealer and CONSTANTLY being hounded with the exact same kind of thing that I talked about in my previous post.
We actually ordered two Toyota vehicles about three months ago, having decided that we liked them best. That's a LONG story, but in the end, the dealership (and Toyota corporate) told us that sure, we could "request" anything we wanted, but the order might never get "picked up." (Translation: you can order anything, but you might never get it.) They couldn't tell us how long it would be until our cars arrived, and in fact they couldn't tell us if they would EVER arrive. I confirmed with Toyota corporate that this was the way they do business, and when I got it from the top, I said to hell with Toyota, and we cancelled the orders ("requests"). THAT is the kind of crap that's made this take so long, NOT us trying to whittle the price down to nothing.
We didn't "outsmart" ourselves in the end, we EXHAUSTED ourselves in the end. You refer to these guys as "sleazeballs," but in our YEAR of experience going to multiple dealerships IN MULTIPLE STATES (we've literally talked to dealerships in five states), they're ALL tricky in one way or another. We got repeatedly lied to, repeatedly told "facts" about the cars that weren't true (e.g., "All Nissans come with ABS"), we heard every line of BS imaginable ("You don't need ABS around here; I have ABS, and I never use it."), and we never found ANYBODY that didn't feed us a line of crap at somepoint or add in some weird fee or other questionable cost. Let's face it: there's a reason that the automotive sales industry is #1 in consumer complaints, head and shoulders above any other industry. In any case, we got to the point where we found a deal that was acceptable, we found cars that we found acceptable, and we were so tired of shopping that when they pulled a $600 fee out of their butts, we bent over and accepted it. (Mind you, we wouldn't have if the $600 had put them out of the running for 'best price.' The fact remains that their OTD price was still lower than anybody else's; I just objected to their last-minute sales tactic.)
Numerous dealers didn't even respond to our requests for competitive bids. Maybe the "honest" dealerships simply know that they can't compete with dishonest dealerships in making quotes, so they don't even bother to try, figuring that they'll "honestly" charge higher prices and not add anything in. If you ask me, that still makes it an abysmal industry in desperate need of government regulation. Can you imagine if teachers did business this way? "Oh, by the way, we charge an extra $100 if you actually want your test to be graded."
We're not done yet, in any case. I thoroughly read the "rental warranty" contract, and I called both Enterprise and the "rental warranty" company, and the bottom line is that it's not mandatory at all, and has a 60-day, 100% return cancellation policy (minus a $30 fee, so it's not really 100%). So, we're going to demand cancellation of the agreement and return of our money, and if they won't comply (or have some other trick up their sleeves), then we'll simply inform them that we're going to file complaints with the BBB, the chamber of commerce, and every automotive website we can find. They'll probably refuse, and we'll probably be stuck just complaining (very loudly), but that's life.
"You grab the contracts, mark the bottom number down by the $300 they jacked up the price, write out the check/s for this amount, put these back on the table, say 'take it or leave it'."
What's so tough? The thing that's tough is that we've been through this A ZILLION FRICKIN' TIMES!! We're sick of playing these kinds of games, where we say "take it or leave it," they leave it, they make us walk out the door, and you can be ***100% GUARANTEED*** that they will call you a week later with a lower offer than they originally presented, but higher than your "take it or leave it price." You tell them "take it or leave it" again, and they come back a week later with a different price. We didn't feel like taking that time any more, and the bottom line price was acceptable. The OTD price was still great, we're just objecting to the manner in which they arrived at it, at the last minute.
If you do, then I am sure you have heard of the great golfer Tom Morris, who won four British Opens before dying at a very young age.
He was a good putter, and this was his attitude: "The hole won't come to you, laddie"
By the same token, the car dealers won't change their ways to make you happy. You can either find a way to buy cars that makes it enjoyable for you, spend the rest of your life being miserable when you buy a car, or find an alternate means of transportation.
Have you seen the new skateboards? They are pretty radical, man. Just the thing for gleaming the cube, hanging ten, or shooting the line.
"By the same token, the car dealers won't change their ways to make you happy. You can either find a way to buy cars that makes it enjoyable for you, spend the rest of your life being miserable when you buy a car, or find an alternate means of transportation."
I expect these new cars that we just bought to last a LONG time. I drove my old Acura until... well, until now, and I intend to drive it 275 more miles, at which point the odometer will read "200,000."
I know somebody who bought a car from carsdirect.com, and they were very happy both with the process and the result. I was about to do the same when the dealership that I ended up buying from sent me a fax with their prices. My sincere hope is that internet car buying will evolve between now and the time I buy my next car (which should be 10 years or more), so that I will never have to listen to another car salesman, never have to play sales games and never have to waste my time in a pushy sales manager's office EVER AGAIN in my entire life. If car dealers don't change their ways, they will be left in the dust by things like internet sales, and personally, I say "good riddance."
When you play golf on the internet, the hole DOES come to you. Amen!
was it any different buying now than it was 10+ years ago? i doubt it very strongly...
so how can you logically expect it to be different 10+ years FROM now? i rarely agree with bobst, but when he said "the hole wont come to you", i envisioned bobst with a hammer in his hand, wearing the birkenstocks, hitting the nail on the head.
whether you took a year to whittle the price or not, you still took a year. thats just ridiculous. you also say you didnt outsmart yourself, you exhausted yourself...wouldnt that be the same as outsmarting yourself?
"Numerous dealers didn't even respond to our requests for competitive bids."
When a dealer gets a shotgunned e-mail or fax bid request, the choice is to (a) give a number so low, no one can beat it, and lose everything to sell a car to someone you'll never see again (no referalls, no repeats, no service biz), or (b) give a competitive price.
Problem with the competitive price is that it can be beaten by $20, so you don't get the deal.
A or B are both loser propositions for the dealer, so why even return the fax or e-mail. I certainly wouldn't - there's no "up" side for the dealer.
I use my internet sales folks to cultivate deals where we can USE them - in our own backyard, and nowhere else.
And no, bowke, we don't have a Ford dealer in the group I consult for...
"was it any different buying now than it was 10+ years ago? i doubt it very strongly... so how can you logically expect it to be different 10+ years FROM now?"
It's ironic that you should bring up logic, because your argument is highly illogical. Ten years ago, there was no such thing as the "online marketplace." It *IS* changing the way people do business, and anybody who thinks that they can keep on doing "business as usual" the way they did 10 years ago is going to get left in the dust. The fact that you are all reading this right now is evidence of the fact.
I don't remember the last time I was in a bookstore. I haven't been in a computer store in years. I order all that kind of thing online, because it's cheaper, easier, faster and more convenient. Before long, I expect to do a lot of my grocery shopping online (they haven't worked enough of the kinks out of that to make it worth it for me yet). Online car buying is in its infancy, but it IS the way of the future. Dealerships and car salesman who think that they can keep lying, playing games and screwing people for a profit are going to be forced out of the market by the simplicity of point-and-click car buying.
How long can car dealerships keep doing business when most people would have no compunction about test driving a car at a dealership and then buying it for a fraction of the price from an online retailer? Dealers and salesman may think that that's unethical, but if you ask me, that's their comeuppance for wasting so much of OUR time with their games and lies. It wouldn't even surprise me if 10 years from now, dealerships no longer allowed test-drives, and instead carried a couple of "test" vehicles in each model that you could rent for a day or two. It might be the only way to avoid the scenario I presented above, at least if they're going to continue trying to do business the "old-fashioned" way. Otherwise, they'll have to start making car buying a more pleasant experience, such that people don't feel compelled to buy their cars from a computer that simply spits out a no-hassle, no-haggle, low-margin price.
Bowke also wrote:
"whether you took a year to whittle the price or not, you still took a year. thats just ridiculous."
You clearly either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote about why we took that long. We were in no hurry, and didn't know what we wanted. If I read about one car a week in Consumer Reports or Edmunds.com, and I'm in no hurry to buy, and in the end I'm a more informed, more prepared consumer, how is that ridiculous? I know that dealers and salesmen love impulse buyers, but just because we're not all impulse buyers doesn't mean that taking ones time is ridiculous. Buying something that you don't know enough about and ending up unhappy with it is ridiculous; being informed and prepared when the time comes to buy is far from it.
" [..] test driving a car at a dealership and then buying it for a fraction of the price from an online retailer."
Do you read this stuff before you push the "post" button? More like, "save $200" and you would usually be able to get the price matched at the local dealer.
The market will settle this question for us, but personally, I buy from the closest dealer, and I have always gotten a good price. I consider shopping over the 'net or phone for price a fool's game, and in the end, sissy.
"and anybody who thinks that they can keep on doing "business as usual" the way they did 10 years ago is going to get left in the dust."
i didnt say anything about doing business. the point was about how people act around you. will THAT be any different? the answer is a resounding NO, because you bring that on yourself most of the time. when someone comes in and treats me like a thief, i tend to get cranky. if you go in with the intention of treating people with respect, i can promise a more pleasant experience.
"Dealerships and car salesman who think that they can keep lying, playing games and screwing people for a profit are going to be forced out of the market by the simplicity of point-and-click car buying."
see above.
most people dont have these issues. only the folks like you who see a conspiracy in everything.
"You clearly either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote about why we took that long."
yes i read and understood why 'you think' you took that long. the problem is that you did exactly the same thing that the "grinders" that we talk about do. you might think that you did something different or special, but the formula for buyers like you is always the same...you end up buying from someone you dont like because your focus was on the wrong part of the process.
my point was not that a year is too long to make a purchase...its that a year is too long with the result you achieved.
Personally, I buy very little "on line". I'm a touchy feeley kind of a guy. Old fashioned, perhaps.
I think your vision of the future is flawed for several reasons. " The Internet" does not sell cars. Brick and Morter dealerships do. Sorry, but you will still have to deal with a (gasp) salesperson.
And, sorry, but your experience is a great example of what happens when a person like yourself has all of the answers.
Not everyone in this business fits your nasty description by the way.
most car dealers and salespeople are crooks. I live in Southern (Car Crazy) California and have purchased over 35 cars for my own use. It amazes me how sales people try to do business like the horse traders of yesterday. The old; "let me talk to my Manager" routine is pretty stale by now. Everything dealers and their sales people are suffering through are getting what they deserve. Give me a good computer, a good website that gives me invoice, holdback, etc. and I will take them for everything I can!!
but it looks like isell agrees with me to an extent. You can call me ignorant if you wish, but as I said, I have purchased 35 cars, and I just call it like I see it. If you are not from So. Cal, then you might not be aware of the marketplace and what dealers resort to!
despite what people in California think, there are 49 other states who would prefer not to be compared with such a screwed up state filled with screwed up people.
the appropriate thing to say would have been...
"My personal experience, here in so.cal, has not been good. I have only dealt with stereotypical salespeople"....not a blanket statement like all salespeople/dealers are crooks.
It looks like my experiences are not unique if you follow this and other boards. Others feel the same way. And your right, we were screwed up, but Arnold (the terminator) is starting to make a BIG DIFFERENCE. And BTW, I purchased a new house for $282,000.00 about 11 years ago, and it's now worth $650,000.00! There are some benefits living in a screwed up state!
Isell, I really do not know how to interpret this statement, perhaps you could clarify it. As far as what I "resort" to, it's very simple. I take the "true cost" of the vehicle and offer "X Amount" over the invoice (figuring in the holdback). If the dealer whom I approach accepts it-fine. If not, I go from one dealer to the next until one accepts my "offer". I have purchased cars very close to my home, and others as far away as 100 miles. It's a very simple process. You guys can make up the difference you lose on me on the "payment buyers".
Also, after the "crook" comment from you, I'm sure he was referring to all the lies he's told by consumers daily. It broke my heart the first time I caught a customer in a lie back in 1992. I got used to it, since it happened just about every day after that.
If you compare the lies I've heard a salesman tell, to all the lies and cheat scams I've seen from customers, I'd say that Joe Consumer has the car salesman beat 1000 to 1 on the dishonesty comparison.
"My trade's title is clear, no salvage or water damage..."
"I make $60,000 a year, and I've been on the job 8 years.."
"Oh, that collection? I paid it - the bureau is wrong..."
"Bad check? It's the bank's fault..."
"The title to my trade is in my ex-wife's name, but that's not a problem..."
Comments
I was going to be a "poker face", but never could pull that off *sigh*. So, when he quoted me $1,000 OVER the best price I received, he saw the look on my face and asked me what the best price was I'd received on the internet. Well, I didn't quite tell him the absolute bottom at first, and I did have more quotes that hadn't come in. But he told me he couldn't sell me the car for the price I got on the net -- he even guessed who one of the dealers was that gave me the low price. He even got up and "went to ask a manager" whether he could meet the offer I'd received elsewhere.
He told me to come back with my email offer when I was ready to buy and he'd TRY to see if he could meet the price at that time.
I'm torn, I didn't get an internet price from that dealership because I'd already talked to this salesguy. But he was given a chance to MEET the price, and he never did give me a written quote.
Anybody see any reason I should give him a 3rd chance? (I'd asked him for a written quote the previous time I'd gone in and he never gave me one then either.)
I'm leaning towards blowing him off & going directly to the low price dealer . . . guess I'm asking permission . . .
if its a matter of $100 or so, go with him...he spent actual time with you, and deserves another shot.
the reason they didnt give you a written quote is because he KNOWS he will never see you again if he does. he was smart not to.
If the low price dealer is not as close to your home or work as the guy that is a few hundred higher...go with the one that is a few hundred higher.
The real deal is all about service after the sale!
The Dealer you purchase from usually will be happier to see you after the sale if he or she made some money on your deal.
That is important when you need a loaner or something extra done!
Good Luck!!!!
If not, then you don't really know what the car will cost you at that dealer.
I suggest you compute the OTD price you are willing to pay, go to your local dealer, and offer that price. Yeah, you heard me right. Don't beat around the bush and ask them for a price. Just make you offer and see what happens.
I bet they will accept. If not, walk out and come back here for more advice.
It's a matter of about $1,700 OTD. And I did wind up telling him the low price I got. He just said to come in with the email when I was ready to buy and he'd see whether he could meet the price.
I called him on the phone today, told him the price I had IN WRITING (same price as I told him last weekend) and told him I'd be there in 30 minutes if he could meet that price. He said I need to come in WITH the written offer and then he'll see if he can meet it.
Both dealers involved are convenient to me (So Calif is LOADED with dealerships!)
As I said, when I was getting internet prices, the website substituted the dealership I'd visited in person for one that wasn't available (that I had marked to check for a price). When the internet rep from the local place called me, I told him I'd already been to his shop and that I didn't know whether it was "kosher" for him to give me an internet quote since I was already dealing with a sales rep from that dealership, (gave him the rep's name). He just said ok, bye. Was I wrong to be honest with the internet dealer from that place? Should I have played the game & gotten their internet quote? Would THAT have been fair to the sales rep that had taken time with me?
I'm TRYING to do this all ethically . . . had he given me a written quote last week for the low price I told him I had from the internet, he'd have completed his sale today. I just can't going back to him again when I can't be sure he'll meet the offer I have. And I don't want to waste a couple more hours of his or my time if he can't/won't meet the offer.
If they can truly provide a similar or equivalent car at the lower price, than go for it. I can't comprehend the amount of time that you appear to be spending on this process.
Is it worth it?
I'm from So. Calif and I can assure you, that is one miserable marketplace. The average salesperson probably lasts two months in that cutthroat marketplace.
I never fail to be amazed to watch what some people will put themselves through in their quest to get the "best price".
But, that's me...
Go to the dealer closest to you and make an offer. If it isn't accepted within 10 minutes, assume it was rejected and leave. No ones time is wasted that way.
Now, I'm firmly convinced that if I had gone to all the dealerships around me (within 40 miles or so), I could have saved another $200-$300 on my car. But it's not worth it to me to go to all that hassle to save what amounts to around $50/year. YMMV.
Guess I'm not sure why this is under Dealer Tricks. Is it because they would give you a written price quote? Nobody does that.
This otherwise inexplicable charge was explained to us as a contract that the dealership has with Enterprise Rent-a-Car whereby, if my vehicle is in the shop for more than four hours, I get a free rental car for the duration of the repair. You can get a hell of a lot of rental car time for $800. I was basically told that the contract was "already paid for," and that there was no choice, that it was part of every car they sell. Worse, it's only valid for the first year we own the cars. Basically, it feels to me like a scam, especially being added on at the very last minute like that.
The only thing that kept me from walking out of the dealership was the fact that we've been shopping for almost a year. My car has almost 200,000 miles on it, and my wife has a new job, so we need two cars. We've sat in literally dozens off dealerships, spent countless hours with sales managers trying to bully us, we've had nearly every trick in the book tried on us, and we're utterly exhausted by it at this point. If I had not been 99.9% convinced that we were getting a really good price for good vehicles, at a time when we really need them, I would have simply walked away and never gone back.
Does anybody out there have any experience with these kinds of last-minute add-on "consumer services"? Is there any truth to this "we've already paid for it, everybody has to have it" argument, or did they basically just jack up the price $600 over what they had agreed on? Given the prices we got, I hate to make an official complaint about this dealership, but it really annoys me, just on principle. If I sell somebody an apple for $1, they get to the cash register and when the money is in their hand I say "oh, there's also a $0.10 pesticide fee," then I really wasn't honest about my original price.
Thoughts?
(For reference, here's what we got: Sentra 1.8S Manual, road trip package, floor mats/trunk mat, microfilter. Edmunds TMV after rebates: $12,065. Our final price: $11,302. Xterra XE, V6, Manual, World Championship package, Protection package, autodimming EC mirror, floor mats w/o subwoofer, body side molding, splash guards, microfilter. Edmunds TMV after rebates: 19,047. Our final price: $18,709. Total TMV minus our total price = $1101. So, it has nothing to do with getting "ripped off," it's just the principle of adding on a totally unnecessary and unwanted charge AFTER negotiations have been completed.)
this is a total BS statement about "its already paid for".
if you have taken delivery, ask for a copy of the contract with enterprise, so you can keep it...just in case you are out of town or something. if they cant produce the documentation, unwind the deal, or demand the $600 back.
anyone who rewards ANY retailer with a sale for doing something sleazy is a fool in my book. Essentially your telling the retailer to keep on screwing people, because you rewarded them for doing it to you.
You shopped for a YEAR, went from dealer to dealer I would suspect, grinding the prices down to nothing.
Then you found a dishonest dealer who slid an outrageous doc fee into the deal.
You didn't ask..." Will there be any additional charges besides tax and license"?
You were so focused on the price you outsmarted yourself in the end.
And, Rich is correct...you REWARDED these sleazeballs by buying TWO cars from them. You should have walked out.
Oh, the pain some people put themselves through!
Very simple really. What is your OTD price period.
Duncan
It's the dealers responsibility to verify his insurance for his own and the lenders protection .. but there is no way a dealer can "extend" anyones insurance ....
Terry.
Still, if you have a current policy, it just takes a phone call to have a car added to the policy (the paper work will arrive later, but you are covered immediately). Take my word for it, the dealer won't give you the car until they have verified the insurance is in place (it also goes on the temp tag they issue).
I have never heard of a dealer getting temp insurance (just registrations, which I believe are for 30 days), so soemthing is funky here.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If the "son" leased it, they should be dealing with the "son".
M.
Yes, we( me and my husband ) do have a existing policy with other insurance, but being a strict disciplinarian my husband is, he wants my son to take full responsibility for his things.. such clothes,room, CAR etc..so he wants him to have the car on his name only, and his individual insurance.
When we got the car, the dealer gave us what you called binder policy good for 7 days (i thought it was called temporary insurance). Knowing that it is impossible the get the actual insurance before 7 days i called the financing officer of the dealer twice and told him that he needs to extend the policy, he then assured me that it was no problem he will fix right away. Yeah right..he only made the effort to request an extension only when he knew my son got into an accident.
Now, i would like to thank everybody who gave an effort to send feedback .Is there anybody who can give me idea on my son's right or protection under the binder policy?
"You shopped for a YEAR, went from dealer to dealer I would suspect, grinding the prices down to nothing"
Not at all. You misinterpret what I said about shopping for a year. Here's the deal: we've known for a long time that my car needed to be replaced at some point in the near future, and we've been trying to decide what to replace it with. We've looked at Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai. We even considered a small Ford truck at one point. We spent a lot of time evaluating and re-evaluating our needs, reading reviews of various vehicles, test-driving, inquiring, pricing, etc. (It obviously wasn't an emergency, and we were taking our time.) We struggled for a long time over this question: do we buy vehicles that we'll really like and will want to drive into the ground, as I did with my Acura, or do we buy something cheaper, that eases our budget right now, but that we'll want to replace five years down the line, when our budget is a little more flush? ALL THAT is what took a year. That, combined with going from dealer to dealer and CONSTANTLY being hounded with the exact same kind of thing that I talked about in my previous post.
We actually ordered two Toyota vehicles about three months ago, having decided that we liked them best. That's a LONG story, but in the end, the dealership (and Toyota corporate) told us that sure, we could "request" anything we wanted, but the order might never get "picked up." (Translation: you can order anything, but you might never get it.) They couldn't tell us how long it would be until our cars arrived, and in fact they couldn't tell us if they would EVER arrive. I confirmed with Toyota corporate that this was the way they do business, and when I got it from the top, I said to hell with Toyota, and we cancelled the orders ("requests"). THAT is the kind of crap that's made this take so long, NOT us trying to whittle the price down to nothing.
We didn't "outsmart" ourselves in the end, we EXHAUSTED ourselves in the end. You refer to these guys as "sleazeballs," but in our YEAR of experience going to multiple dealerships IN MULTIPLE STATES (we've literally talked to dealerships in five states), they're ALL tricky in one way or another. We got repeatedly lied to, repeatedly told "facts" about the cars that weren't true (e.g., "All Nissans come with ABS"), we heard every line of BS imaginable ("You don't need ABS around here; I have ABS, and I never use it."), and we never found ANYBODY that didn't feed us a line of crap at somepoint or add in some weird fee or other questionable cost. Let's face it: there's a reason that the automotive sales industry is #1 in consumer complaints, head and shoulders above any other industry. In any case, we got to the point where we found a deal that was acceptable, we found cars that we found acceptable, and we were so tired of shopping that when they pulled a $600 fee out of their butts, we bent over and accepted it. (Mind you, we wouldn't have if the $600 had put them out of the running for 'best price.' The fact remains that their OTD price was still lower than anybody else's; I just objected to their last-minute sales tactic.)
Numerous dealers didn't even respond to our requests for competitive bids. Maybe the "honest" dealerships simply know that they can't compete with dishonest dealerships in making quotes, so they don't even bother to try, figuring that they'll "honestly" charge higher prices and not add anything in. If you ask me, that still makes it an abysmal industry in desperate need of government regulation. Can you imagine if teachers did business this way? "Oh, by the way, we charge an extra $100 if you actually want your test to be graded."
We're not done yet, in any case. I thoroughly read the "rental warranty" contract, and I called both Enterprise and the "rental warranty" company, and the bottom line is that it's not mandatory at all, and has a 60-day, 100% return cancellation policy (minus a $30 fee, so it's not really 100%). So, we're going to demand cancellation of the agreement and return of our money, and if they won't comply (or have some other trick up their sleeves), then we'll simply inform them that we're going to file complaints with the BBB, the chamber of commerce, and every automotive website we can find. They'll probably refuse, and we'll probably be stuck just complaining (very loudly), but that's life.
"You grab the contracts, mark the bottom number down by the $300 they jacked up the price, write out the check/s for this amount, put these back on the table, say 'take it or leave it'."
What's so tough? The thing that's tough is that we've been through this A ZILLION FRICKIN' TIMES!! We're sick of playing these kinds of games, where we say "take it or leave it," they leave it, they make us walk out the door, and you can be ***100% GUARANTEED*** that they will call you a week later with a lower offer than they originally presented, but higher than your "take it or leave it price." You tell them "take it or leave it" again, and they come back a week later with a different price. We didn't feel like taking that time any more, and the bottom line price was acceptable. The OTD price was still great, we're just objecting to the manner in which they arrived at it, at the last minute.
He was a good putter, and this was his attitude: "The hole won't come to you, laddie"
By the same token, the car dealers won't change their ways to make you happy. You can either find a way to buy cars that makes it enjoyable for you, spend the rest of your life being miserable when you buy a car, or find an alternate means of transportation.
Have you seen the new skateboards? They are pretty radical, man. Just the thing for gleaming the cube, hanging ten, or shooting the line.
Terry.
"By the same token, the car dealers won't change their ways to make you happy. You can either find a way to buy cars that makes it enjoyable for you, spend the rest of your life being miserable when you buy a car, or find an alternate means of transportation."
I expect these new cars that we just bought to last a LONG time. I drove my old Acura until... well, until now, and I intend to drive it 275 more miles, at which point the odometer will read "200,000."
I know somebody who bought a car from carsdirect.com, and they were very happy both with the process and the result. I was about to do the same when the dealership that I ended up buying from sent me a fax with their prices. My sincere hope is that internet car buying will evolve between now and the time I buy my next car (which should be 10 years or more), so that I will never have to listen to another car salesman, never have to play sales games and never have to waste my time in a pushy sales manager's office EVER AGAIN in my entire life. If car dealers don't change their ways, they will be left in the dust by things like internet sales, and personally, I say "good riddance."
When you play golf on the internet, the hole DOES come to you. Amen!
Thanks for the comment, Terry. Maybe we can skate together sometime.
so how can you logically expect it to be different 10+ years FROM now? i rarely agree with bobst, but when he said "the hole wont come to you", i envisioned bobst with a hammer in his hand, wearing the birkenstocks, hitting the nail on the head.
whether you took a year to whittle the price or not, you still took a year. thats just ridiculous. you also say you didnt outsmart yourself, you exhausted yourself...wouldnt that be the same as outsmarting yourself?
When a dealer gets a shotgunned e-mail or fax bid request, the choice is to (a) give a number so low, no one can beat it, and lose everything to sell a car to someone you'll never see again (no referalls, no repeats, no service biz), or (b) give a competitive price.
Problem with the competitive price is that it can be beaten by $20, so you don't get the deal.
A or B are both loser propositions for the dealer, so why even return the fax or e-mail. I certainly wouldn't - there's no "up" side for the dealer.
I use my internet sales folks to cultivate deals where we can USE them - in our own backyard, and nowhere else.
And no, bowke, we don't have a Ford dealer in the group I consult for...
nolanissan, you made car shopping a long, ardous, painful process. Sorry, but you brought this on yourself and you were, indeed, outsmarted.
Sadly, you caved in as most weary shoppers do and you rewarded the scoundrals who pulled this on you.
Now...do you think they will do this again?
People are so much better off asking their friends and neighbors for a referral that will treat you like family.
All in the painful frantic quest to get the "best price"!
"was it any different buying now than it was 10+ years ago? i doubt it very strongly...
so how can you logically expect it to be different 10+ years FROM now?"
It's ironic that you should bring up logic, because your argument is highly illogical. Ten years ago, there was no such thing as the "online marketplace." It *IS* changing the way people do business, and anybody who thinks that they can keep on doing "business as usual" the way they did 10 years ago is going to get left in the dust. The fact that you are all reading this right now is evidence of the fact.
I don't remember the last time I was in a bookstore. I haven't been in a computer store in years. I order all that kind of thing online, because it's cheaper, easier, faster and more convenient. Before long, I expect to do a lot of my grocery shopping online (they haven't worked enough of the kinks out of that to make it worth it for me yet). Online car buying is in its infancy, but it IS the way of the future. Dealerships and car salesman who think that they can keep lying, playing games and screwing people for a profit are going to be forced out of the market by the simplicity of point-and-click car buying.
How long can car dealerships keep doing business when most people would have no compunction about test driving a car at a dealership and then buying it for a fraction of the price from an online retailer? Dealers and salesman may think that that's unethical, but if you ask me, that's their comeuppance for wasting so much of OUR time with their games and lies. It wouldn't even surprise me if 10 years from now, dealerships no longer allowed test-drives, and instead carried a couple of "test" vehicles in each model that you could rent for a day or two. It might be the only way to avoid the scenario I presented above, at least if they're going to continue trying to do business the "old-fashioned" way. Otherwise, they'll have to start making car buying a more pleasant experience, such that people don't feel compelled to buy their cars from a computer that simply spits out a no-hassle, no-haggle, low-margin price.
Bowke also wrote:
"whether you took a year to whittle the price or not, you still took a year. thats just ridiculous."
You clearly either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote about why we took that long. We were in no hurry, and didn't know what we wanted. If I read about one car a week in Consumer Reports or Edmunds.com, and I'm in no hurry to buy, and in the end I'm a more informed, more prepared consumer, how is that ridiculous? I know that dealers and salesmen love impulse buyers, but just because we're not all impulse buyers doesn't mean that taking ones time is ridiculous. Buying something that you don't know enough about and ending up unhappy with it is ridiculous; being informed and prepared when the time comes to buy is far from it.
Do you read this stuff before you push the "post" button? More like, "save $200" and you would usually be able to get the price matched at the local dealer.
The market will settle this question for us, but personally, I buy from the closest dealer, and I have always gotten a good price. I consider shopping over the 'net or phone for price a fool's game, and in the end, sissy.
-Mathias
i didnt say anything about doing business. the point was about how people act around you. will THAT be any different? the answer is a resounding NO, because you bring that on yourself most of the time. when someone comes in and treats me like a thief, i tend to get cranky. if you go in with the intention of treating people with respect, i can promise a more pleasant experience.
"Dealerships and car salesman who think that they can keep lying, playing games and screwing people for a profit are going to be forced out of the market by the simplicity of point-and-click car buying."
see above.
most people dont have these issues. only the folks like you who see a conspiracy in everything.
"You clearly either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote about why we took that long."
yes i read and understood why 'you think' you took that long. the problem is that you did exactly the same thing that the "grinders" that we talk about do. you might think that you did something different or special, but the formula for buyers like you is always the same...you end up buying from someone you dont like because your focus was on the wrong part of the process.
my point was not that a year is too long to make a purchase...its that a year is too long with the result you achieved.
I think your vision of the future is flawed for several reasons. " The Internet" does not sell cars. Brick and Morter dealerships do. Sorry, but you will still have to deal with a (gasp) salesperson.
And, sorry, but your experience is a great example of what happens when a person like yourself has all of the answers.
Not everyone in this business fits your nasty description by the way.
wow...nothing like a blanket statement to show us your ignorance.
And greedy customers that fuel these fires.
I know I couldn't work there in this business.
if they are mirroring the customers, it makes me wonder what buyers resort to...
the appropriate thing to say would have been...
"My personal experience, here in so.cal, has not been good. I have only dealt with stereotypical salespeople"....not a blanket statement like all salespeople/dealers are crooks.
Hey, don't you tell anybody,
The whole place shakin away.
Where can we go, when there's no San Diego?
Better get ready to tie up the boat in Idaho.
I don't know who's worse.
Born and raised...San Pedro
I really do not know how to interpret this statement, perhaps you could clarify it. As far as what I "resort" to, it's very simple. I take the "true cost" of the vehicle and offer "X Amount" over the invoice (figuring in the holdback). If the dealer whom I approach accepts it-fine. If not, I go from one dealer to the next until one accepts my "offer". I have purchased cars very close to my home, and others as far away as 100 miles. It's a very simple process. You guys can make up the difference you lose on me on the "payment buyers".
If you compare the lies I've heard a salesman tell, to all the lies and cheat scams I've seen from customers, I'd say that Joe Consumer has the car salesman beat 1000 to 1 on the dishonesty comparison.
"My trade's title is clear, no salvage or water damage..."
"I make $60,000 a year, and I've been on the job 8 years.."
"Oh, that collection? I paid it - the bureau is wrong..."
"Bad check? It's the bank's fault..."
"The title to my trade is in my ex-wife's name, but that's not a problem..."