Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

driftracer

but far from perfect - for instance, if you look at a car that was just rebuilt and may have a salvage title, go ahead and buy it, but bear in mind that the title status won't hit Carfax for 60-90 days, sometimes a year...

stickguy

It's also a little silly to assume that a salesperson is going to know the history of every used car on the lot, especially at a larger new-car dealer. They can have a considerable inventory, with frequent turnover.

Big secret (so keep it to yourself), is that the best answer they could usually give you is "it came from the auction", since the majority of the stock probably did. Beyond that, why would the salesperson be expected to know the name and blood type of all prior owners?

Really all you can do is run a car-fax (not perfect, but might help), and most improtantly, get a competent mechanic to do a complete evaluation. If that checks out, who really cares about the prior owner?

chuck1

"You show nothing but contempt for those of us in the business."

Guilty as charged!!
You know Isell, I will tell you a little story. I was looking at the Chevy Aveo hatchback with my son two weeks ago. It's a big Chevy Dealer in Pomona, California. We walked up to the car to size it up. The sales person came over. After exchanging the usual insincere pleasantries, I asked him two questions; 1) what was the rebate on the car?, 2)How much GM dollars could I use from my credit card? He said he didn't know the answer to both questions. I asked him to get someone who did. His Manager came over, he said how can I help you? I said I want an answer to two specific questions, (as stated above). He asked-"are you interested in the car?" I said, I am but it looks like I am wasting my time here because no one will answer my two direct questions. He said, "Sir get the He** off my lot". I have purchased a car from them previously, they have lost my business for life, and I am in the process of telling everyone I come in to contact with how they treat their potential customers!. THAT ISELL is why I have nothing but contempt for most of the salespeople I have come in contact with in the business. Of course, there are a very few exceptions....BTW, $1,000.00 rebate on the Aveo (I already knew this) and $1,500 GM dollars from credit card can be used. (This I didn't know.)

etze_

You must have one dazzling personality to get thrown off a dealers lot. Don't they spend thousands of dollars advertising to get people on their lot ?

 There must be something in the way you asked, because anytime I have a salesman a question they did not know the answer to , they would always find someone that did,no rocket science there.

Last time I checked they were people too. Treat them with respect and they will treat you with respect.

Have fun shopping.

manamal

I have never been thrown out of a dealer, but I have been thrown out of Best Buys. What it takes to get thrown out of Best Buys is one of two things: raising your voice and using profanities (guilty) or questioning thier ethics.

Specifcially, I have been thown out 3 times. First, I bought something, a week later, it was on sale for $100 less. Since they have the price garentee, I wanted the difference...I show up, but they did not want to give me the money, as they had none in stock. I asked them if I could go home and bring mine back and return it then rebuy it at the sale price. At that point the sales person used an ethnic slur usage of my religion to describe my bargining. I got angry. I was asked to leave, and I refused. Security "escorted" me out. Later in the day the store manager (after a call from the anti-defimation league) called me and apologized. and I got my $100.

Next time, it was over misrepresentation of a warentee. I asked to see what the sales person was claiming in writing. He could not show it, and the manager comes over. (I was calm). The manager then explains the warentee the way I suspected it was -- not what the sales person claimed. I responed saying that the salesmans comments were either ignorant or fraudulent. At that point things got heated, and I was asked to leave.

Kirstie_H

Let's get back on track and focus on car dealers' tricks, please.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

bowke28

chuck...

i think his question, then, was more valid than yours.

"are you interested in this car?"

this is a simple qualifier, and with a positive answer, would have been followed by the correct answer to your questions. instead, you8 had to "test" their forthcomingness by asking a question you already knew the answer to.

BTW...his question is valid because, if you were not interested in it, then prices and dollar amounts dont matter in the least. at that point, it becomes a waste of time, and qualifies for the "inconsiderate buyer" stories.

rroyce10

........ Wow.! .. 20 years in the Biz and I've never seen it, now I've heard of it, but never seen it .. plus our poster is braggin'.? - I bet he's fun at Bar Mitzva's and weddings ..

              I guess this speaks Volumes of his personality ~ no meds or anger management classes needed here .l.o.l....

                             Terry )

chuck1

"are you interested in this car?"

"this is a simple qualifier, and with a positive answer, would have been followed by the correct answer to your questions."

The fact that I was there with my teenage son looking at the car and asked two questions should be proof enough that I was interested. The main point in contention was this-If I could use my GM dollars, how much cheaper would this car be compared to other cars in it's class? Sounds simple to me-but I couldn't get an answer to a specific question. Go Figure!

chuck1

Wow.! .. 20 years in the Biz and I've never seen it, now I've heard of it, but never seen it .. "plus our poster is braggin'.? - I bet he's fun at Bar Mitzva's and weddings ..
            I guess this speaks Volumes of his personality ~ no meds or anger management classes needed here .l.o.l.... "

Terry, I not "braggin" just relaying the facts. I am a professional salesperson (industrial) and am very professional in all respects...I expect the same on the car lots....it just does not happen.

isellhondas

I've only been in the business nine years and our store has NEVER thrown a customer out. I've dealt with combative people with chips on their shoulder, looking for an argument that I can usually disarm. Most people tend to respond in kind as to how THEY are treated.

As a young manager for the largest Sears store in California, I threw ONE customer out in all of my years there. He was abusive to one of my Service Managers and was using every swear word you can think of.

I would love to be able to hear the other side of Chuck's story.

driftracer

I don't know you and I don't know this sales manager, but I'm thinking there's more tone and attitude involved here when the guy throws you off the lot after two questions.

And "are you interested" is a VERY valid question - sales people aren't in place to waste theirs and their bosses time, yet people waste dealer's time all the time - they seem to think that car dealerships are there simply for entertainment and wasting time -

You're in industrial sales - would you make a sales call and give a full presentation when you KNEW you had absolutely no chance of selling your wares?

Also, when you deal with a customer with a condescending, know-it-all attitude, it's likely you'll never please them IF you strike a deal, and they'll absolutely KILL you on the CSI survey.

Getting your CSI trashed isn't worth it, and if an attitude was detected, the BEST POSSIBLE COURSE OF ACTION was to "broom" you before you ruined the sales kid's attitude.

blh7068

"The sales person came over. After exchanging the usual insincere pleasantries, I asked him two questions; 1) what was the rebate on the car?, 2)How much GM dollars could I use from my credit card? He said he didn't know the answer to both questions. I asked him to get someone who did. His Manager came over, he said how can I help you? I said I want an answer to two specific questions, (as stated above). He asked-"are you interested in the car?" I said, I am but it looks like I am wasting my time here because no one will answer my two direct questions. He said, "Sir get the He** off my lot"

Something sure doesnt sound right. Chuck, we already no you dont respect the car biz at all. You dont think possibly your predisposed attitude leaks through when dealing with car salespeople?

Sorry, but I really believe there is something youre not telling us here, and thats not regarding the dialogue, more like how you said it.

One doesn't get kicked of a car lot for asking two legitimate questions.

bowke28

"One doesn't get kicked of a car lot for asking two legitimate questions."

you are correct...but keep in mind that one of his questions was not legitimate. he already knew the answer.

bobst

I believe it is very impolite to answer a question with a question.

Chuck asked the salesman two questions. If the salesman did not want to answer them, he should have said, "Sir, I do not choose to answer your question".

To ignore Chuck's questions was very, very impolite of the salesman.

I have often been asked questions by car salesmen that I have politely declined to answer. They owe us buyers the same courtesy.

bowke28

the salesman didnt ignore the question. he said he didnt know, and even took the time to get someone who COULD answer them.

the difference is that chuck complained to the manager about the salesman WHILE asking the questions. that was more rude than answering a question with a question, IMO.

bobst

Chuck's salesman was OK. He got the manager to answer Chuck's questions.

However, I didn't see where Chuck complained about the salesman.

The manager is the one who refused to address Chuck's questions, so he was the one who was impolite.

Kirstie_H

OK, guys. This is going WAY off the topic of "dealer's tricks" and into an area that belongs in one of our "inconsiderate" discussions. Since we simply cannot get the other side of this story, hear the tone of the conversation, or guess at the exact wording, everyone is speculating. If you want to continue in one of the "inconsiderate" discussions, please do so, but let's get back on topic here - any more off-topic posts will be deleted.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

mikefm58

Is an excellent way to gauge the honesty of the dealer, which I always ask. You wouldn't believe the answers I got. Some said "no rebates" when I knew there was a 3K rebate. I left in a hurry. Some would say $500 when I knew it was much more. I left in a hurry again. And others even would quote a figure that was too high, but then tack on all kinds of dealer fees to make up for it.

boomer1b

Rebates and other offers change ALMOST daily.
Front cash, back door cash, dealer cash, etc.
WHO is to know for sure ?

If your a "smart shopper" that has done their homework. YOU already know the invoice price, rebates, hidden cash, the best interest rate, and after asking Terry and the fellas here how much your trade is worth !

So it should be NO MUSS-NO FUSS and a quick painless deal for us folks in the know !

It is for me and the salesperson !
Sure its a "mini" for them. But calm and cool with a handshake and a smile and a good CSI score down the road makes everybody happy.
Maybe a "birddog" or 2 later on!

Sure there are some SHADY dealers out there !
Just let yer feet do the walking !

mikefm58

In my recent experience buying two new vehicles a couple weeks apart, a Tacoma and Highlander, the Toyota dealers that did not get my business did not want "smart shoppers". I felt they wanted ignorant people who haven't done their homework so they could make as much as possible. Most Toyota dealers in my area have a rep. for high pressure sales tactic. The dealership and the same salesman that got my business was a straight shooter. Like you said boomer1b "no muss-no fuss" for everyone involved.

kyfdx

It isn't just your area... Toyota dealers as a whole are the worst. (No offense intended to the three of you in the USA that aren't).

bowke28

prefer someone thats done their homework. makes negotiating much easier, because i dont have to fight ridiculous ideas about the markup in the car.

boomer1b

I hear ya about toyota dealers...........

The "hidden" dist fees....They toyo-rip pkgs.
And the "All come that way" baloney......

Like I have posted before my toyota loving cousin finally got fed up.
He finally wised up....Now he uses our GM Family discount deal and has bought a Prizm (corolla cone) and recently a Pontiac Vibe another toyota clone.
Money saved big time and "percieved" toyota quality !

steine13

Here in Lansing, MI, where GM still rules the roost, the Toyota dealer is a veritable pussycat.

Still doesn't make up for the winters, though...

-Mathias

boomer1b

Been shopping for a new Harley 883. My 78 Triumph is gettin' older and a PIA to kick start!
Besides I have had it 20 years !

One dealer wants $8500 for a 05 $6995 msrp.(freight/set up incl.) plus tax and tag) 883 ....
.......
Well it does come with the "mop n glow" pkg, 5/50 ex-warranty, 1st service free, and a few other BS items that are supposed to add value !

STANDARD on every Hog they sell...........What a crock!

Oh, well another dealer 50 miles away has one for
$6995 ready to go.........

I thought only car dealers pulled this one!

driftracer

aren't a high-demand ride, and no amount of add-on fluff mandates a $1500 markup and no discount from MSRP.

You might seriously look at the 1200 Sportster series - not that much more money, but quite a bit more bike.

rroyce10

"I thought only ____________________ pulled this one!"

Fill in the blank:

Real estate agents

Boat dealers

Attorneys

Jewelers

Furniture salesman

Mortgage companies

                 

                     You must not get out much .l.o.l....

                             Terry.

boomer1b

I wish I could add "mop and glow" to the price of a beer at my place!.............

Yea a 883 !..........A 1200 Sporty is $12k bare bones ! A new softail is almost 20 large! Gettin' too old to hold up those big ones! I had a big 1200 kick start hog in the 70s.

Used ones are the same price as a new one !

Just want something to "putt" around with !

isellhondas

Vespas are back and has anyone seen what they sell for??

I must be missing something here.

steine13

In the dumbest move ever, I bought a 200cc scooter as my primary mode of transporation in, oh, '84 it must have been. Then a buddy acquainted me with the pollution characteristics 2-cycle engines and I sold the darned thing for like 2/3 of what i had in it... to stay on topic.

I replaced it with a good bicycle and got in shape in a hurry.
No I didn't live in MI then :-)

I'm surprised they're even legal to register, given the pollution they put out... One of those puts out as much hydrocarbons as 50 modern cars. Really.

-Mathias

isellhondas

Actually I like the 883's. The hard core Harley guys scoff at them, but so what?

driftracer

but the 883 is considered a "female only" bike, or the kind that a guy moves up from after his high-performance, fire-breathing Suzuki Intruder 250 Cruiser...

To stay somewhat on topic, if I were a salesman or manager at that bike shop, I'd be baiting and switching you to something else, but that's me...

Your mileage may vary...

KCRam

cars and trucks = good
motorcycles = off-topic


kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

isellhondas

Sorry...couldn't resist!

boomer1b

To jump for the BIG one !

I have had them all in my 50 years.......

Almost 20 large for a big one....Nah........7k for the 883 and 13k left over in my pocket is better !

My Triumph only has 5900 miles. So I figure I don't ride much anyway anymore. My boys have no interest in bikes just cars, boats, jetskis, and girls ! lol !

Just kills me about the mop and glow ,ADM , ex-warranty baloney .................

Maybe I should ask for undercoating...........

mikefm58

Buy a Honda......Oh I know people just have to have a Harley. And you're right about motorcycle dealers, the markup is worse than on cars.

Sorry for going off topic Host. I'll go back to my corner now.

boomer1b

Had one......Fast and fun ! 750 4 cyl !
My fastest? KZ 900 2 stroke......

I can buy a slightly used Triumph 02/03 for about $5k. But need something low to the ground and not so heavy. Gotta have new. Used ain't much cheaper.
Kept my Triumph running all these years with no
dealer in 1000 miles ! Had it almost 20 years !

jpvwaudi

As a salesman, I'd have asked him if he was ready to make his purchase on that particular vehicle today, right now, to gauge his commitment.

If I didn't know the answers to his questions, I'd tell him so; and then find out the answers. As stated above, rebates do change and can depend on how one pays for the vehicle (loyalty, finance vs. cash, lease vs finance, conquest, etc...).

I'd sure as hell tell him to buy a better used car over the tin can Aveo, but hey, I'm just a crook.

The number one reason he gets launched from my lot......

His TONE. I am a professional. I understand you have questions and concerns. I will address each one. I will do everything I can, within reason, to make you happy. Leave your attitude at the door. You're in my store now and we do business our way.

Now, I could use some advise from Chuck.

What is it that you sell, and how can I buy it for below your cost? Will you forfeit your commission and let me call your boss to complain about you and your product? Let me know.

chuck1

His TONE. I am a professional. I understand you have questions and concerns. I will address each one. "I will do everything I can, within reason, to make you happy. Leave your attitude at the door. You're in my store now and we do business our way."

There is one way to get me upset from the beginning. You will not answer a DIRECT QUESTION. This seems to be OK and standard practice, although I think it's very rude. You try to answer a question-with a question.

As far as a commission and below cost is concerned. It is YOUR CHOICE to sell the product at a given price. You can tell me to take a hike if my offer is to low. If you can't make a living you should leave the industry. That's what I would do. I hope I answered your question.

wtd44

I had a Mazda salesman insist on an extra $500 on the car-buying day, after having fully agreed to the lower price 24 hours prior. He blamed the sales manager. I said I'd walk if they didn't go back to the yesterday deal. The salesman said, "Go ahead." So I did. I was in their store, but I didn't do business their way. I bought a Geo Prizm shortly thereafter. I never regretted it. I truly appreciated that Toyota quality without the inflated price. I may never get around to a Mazda...

bobst

When we were buying a car in 1995, the sales manager at a Honda dealer and I agreed on a definite price and shook hands. I went to pick up the car the next day and they would not honor the price, so I left. It was a good learning experience.

I went back a few years later to look at (but not buy) one of the newer models, and I found the guy was now the general manager. I guess his way of doing business worked on some people.

bobst

When we made an offer to buy an Acura last October, the sales manager asked if we were ready to buy that day. I thought that was a reasonable question, so I said Yes. They accepted the offer, so we bought the car.

On the other hand, it is totally unacceptable if the salesman tries to stall us without accepting or rejecting our offer. If we don't get a firm Yes within a few minutes, we assume the answer is No and we leave.

wtd44

I have often thought that Honda has taken a particularly brazen pathway to high success in the American market. It is puzzling how well it has worked for them.

bowke28

he didnt say he wouldnt answer your question. he said, and i would do this the same way, "im not sure of the answer, let me get someone who is...by the way, is this something you want to to today?"

this is not avoiding, deflecting, or otherwise getting around your question.

you DO have an attitude that is off-putting, and we can sense it simply in your posts...i just cant imagine how easily i would be able to sense it if you were in person.

Kirstie_H

This line of conversation has long sense veered off of Dealer's Tricks and into Inconsiderate Buyers and/or Inconsiderate Salespeople..... Please select one of these topics in which to continue that particular line. Thanks.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

boomer1b

Is doing the old "used car scams and tricks" episode again !
BUT it is NOT by dealers. Its the "curbstoners" !

bobotheclown

What in the world is a "curbstoner"? First thing that pops into my mind is a toker sitting on the curb

stickguy

is sort of a fly-by-night used car "dealer". They sell through ads and show the car at the curb, hence the name. Not legit, and real easy to get ripped off (since you will never find them again).

Not to be confused with normal people private selling their own car.

I'm sure some of the pros can give more details.

boomer1b

Correctly in NY if you sell more than 3? cars per year you must register for a NY car dealer license.

Many states have No limit........