Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

bowke28

that will be done, but that wasnt the point. the point was that the editors at edmunds have even endorsed this as "news" in the first place. that speaks volumes for who actually makes decisions.

Kirstie_H

OK, guys - we're an automotive information site. Thus, you're not likely to see stories about heating oil price gouging, health care rip-offs, or the dangers of climbing the turkey balloon at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, even though these stories exist.

If you do a Google search on identity theft, you come up with exactly eleventy zillion results (I counted), most of which have nothing to do with the automotive industry. Most surround the dangers of the Internet and Internet services. Hey, wait! Edmunds.com is an Internet service!! Should I be offended that we're listed as a danger? Not at all, because we don't steal identities.

If you do not now, nor plan in the future, to steal identities, cheer up! This article was not about you. It's one of millions regarding identity theft, so take it with a grain of salt. We're a comprehensive consumer-focused site, so if it's about the automotive industry and could help the consumer, you're likely to see it here.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

rroyce10

**or the dangers of climbing the turkey balloon at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade**

           Hmmmm, now that I would like to see.!

                           Terry.

danf1

This article may be on of millions regarding identity theft, but it is the only one prominently posted on an automotive website from what I have seen. Consumers visit this site to gather information on cars, deals, trades etc.. Now they are also defensive about their identities. A certain amount of precaution should be common sense when dealing with this, but keep in mind the expression that "customers here what they want to hear." This is proven at a dealership every minute when someone says their trade in is worth xx,xxx. Of course that number is dealer retail, but it is gospel to the buyer and they "won't accept a penny less because they know what we're trying to do."
I don't think anyone here is taking this personally because anybody who has been in this business for any length of time has been called everything but a nice guy. We tend to have thick skin.

imidazol97

I'm glad the article was referenced here. Edmunds has a varied bandwidth of discussions; this too can be discussed.

I surely feel the dealer I usually bought from would not do anything to let my identity info spread. But some of the dealers whom I've shopped in the past might have a shady character in their midst.

mikefm58

I'm not in the car biz, just an educated consumer, but I work in the computer field and have read quite a bit on identity theft. My impression of the author is also that they don't know what they're talking about when they say "they are among the most common sites where the crimes occur." I've never heard of one case of identity theft originating from a car dealer. Although I'm sure with the info. available to employees of car dealers it would be quite easy for an unscrupulous employee to steal someone's identity.

From my experience, the most common places are the garbage and computer files.

asafonov

I would add unsecured mailboxes.

My take on this (completely unscientific) is that a dealership is probably one of the less likely places to have one's identity stolen. However, if a dealership employee is a thief, he/she does not need to rummage through garbage, mail - all the information, for hundreds or thousands of people, is at her fingertips. So the number of people affected may be higher than with thieves after individual targets. Of course, the same is true about hospitals, banks, credit bureaus etc.

audia8q

There was a big story on the news around here apx 2-3 months ago....A local agent of a major insurance company tossed a bunch of his "old" files into the dumpster behind his office....Of course somebody spotted this and found all kinds of info on people. Names, addresses, cars, social sec. numbers, the works...Well it hit the news and the customary showing of the guy speeding away with the jacket on his head got everyones attention.
consumer protection, atty general all got on TV saying how bad it was, etc....he ended up paying a fine and promised to "never do it again." If he does it again he gets detention and no TV for a week.

ramped

In Orlando a salesman was recently sentenced to several years in prison for being a member of an identity theft ring at a local Mitsubishi dealer. Hundreds of customers had their identities stolen from credit reports filled out at this dealership. I believe others who worked there are under indictment or have also been prosecuted.

KCRam

All the more reason to have financing pre-arranged if not fully locked in. Even the captives like GMAC, Chrysler Financial, et al, allow you to apply online and they get the info necessary from the dealer on the vehicle and the price. Unless you've been doing business with the same dealership and same personnel for MANY years, you don't know what will really happen to that copy they make of your license for the test drive, the credit application, or the carbon copy of the temp tag in the window of your new ride.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

jipster

My experience with these so called "screamer ads" isn't that the fine print isn't read.It's that when you call to ask about it they don't have the information available.. so come on down and they should have it when you get there. Or,you show up the first day the ad is out, go out to the dealer and....guess what.."It's already sold"(but the ad continues to run for the next 2 weeks)or "it was in a little fender bender when one of the salesmen was backing it out and its in the shop. But, heres one over here much better"(happened to me 2 times)This was with Toyota dealerships. Didn't work, as I bought Mazda.

bowke28

thats not a solution, though...every buyers order, even in a cash deal, requires insurance info, social sec #, DOB, address, phone #. thhe only difference between a buyers order and a credit app. is the job/income information.

KCRam

true, but having your "money" in hand already reduces how much paperwork will be at a dealer you may not have a comfort level with.

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards

boomer1b

Nowadays if your handing over 10k+cash money to Mr. dealer for a vehicle. Mr gov't also has a handy little form with name, address, SS#, etc. for ya to fill out for ALL to see where the cash came from...........

Ya can't win or hide nothing nowadays.........

rroyce10

...... Thats for a "cash deal" ....

                            Terry.

imidazol97

sure blows the comeback that it's more common in other businesses.

Banks, hospitals, don't require giving driver's license and insurance info just to test drive one of the cars -- so they can gather more info on you while you're lout...!!! Last time I walked into my bank lobby they didn't want my license. Same for when I visited a hospital to check out the room size.

mikefm58

<< Last time I walked into my bank lobby they didn't want my license. >>

My credit union requires photo id for ALL transactions. Most people use their driver's license.

bowke28

banks and hospitals already have your information. car dealers do not.

so you dont agree that its a good idea to make sure someone can legally drive before using a $30k piece of merchandise?

imidazol97

"...someone can legally drive before using a $30k piece of merchandise?"

If someone looks 50 and drives in a a $30000 from 4 years ago, I think I can let them drive my $30000 car -- especially if I want them to leave the keys to theirs so my (who knows what) can drive it to evaluate it...!!!

Kirstie_H

You can look at my driver's license, sure! Check that it's valid, and that I'm the person in the photo. You're just not keeping a photocopy.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

bowke28

not you, personally, kirstie...but how do i, and the dealer know that you are not some car-jacker or axe murderer? a photocopy allows us, if something happens, to know who to come look for. unfortunately, most dealers just toss people keys...this is just BEGGING for bad things to happen.

cartalk

Realtors and leasing agents at apartment complexes are also known to make a copy for the same reasons.

Kirstie_H

I've never had a dealer insist on making a photocopy. They do take my name, and the keys to the car I'm driving.

And I quite possibly could be an axe-murderer... I'm simply lacking the tools.

I guess I'm just not interested in anyone running a background check/credit report on me until I want them to, or until I've done something that necessitates it.

Sylvia

I guess you could always demand to have the photocopy when you return...catch them by surprise.

I've never had anyone ask for a copy of my license either. They look at it, take my keys, refuse to take my kids (just kidding) and groan while I move all the car seats out of my car into the test drive (gotta make sure they fit and I can see with the little ones in the back). I test drive (I do leave the sippy cups, kid snacks out) and return. That's it.

enya18

A Toyota dealership is telling me that for the car I want ('05 Camry Solara) in arctic pearl, which is like an off-white, I have to pay $220 extra for it...does this sound normal? They call it their "Special Paint"...

Thanks for any advice!

driftracer

in many vehicle models, special paints are $100-500 extra - the easiest way to tell is to see if that option and price is on the sticker...

One question, though - are they talking about doing a dealer trade and charging $220 to swap the car?

stickguy

that color is an extra cost option on the Solara for some reson.

rodc1

No scam, I bought a toyota minivan earlier this year. Only one color "Artic frost" had an additional charge. Certain colors do cost more so don't even think about getting it for "free" as part of the negotiation.

enya18

To answer your question driftracer, I've been talking online with different Toyota internet salesmen and they have each sent me what looks like a "quote sheet" with a price breakdown, one of which is "Special Paint" for $220.

This alone will make me want to choose another color...oh well...Thanks for the replies!

explorerx4

those 'special colors' are tough to match if you need to have a fender or door repainted.

imidazol97

I had thought about matching the special 3 layer paints by GM. Our newer car is Crimson Pearl, a special price optional paint. Front bumper and grill surround had to be repainted; perfect match.

But whites may be harder to match because of the variations...

boomer1b

S itting here in NJ and watching some stupid screamer ad from a mega dealer in Cherry Hill.

It features the "trunk monkey" with a real chimp in some goofy situations.
The ad also implies "ANY trade is worth $8000 with the trunk monkey"..............

I didn't notice any small print with restrictions racing by in the ad either.
I wonder if the rules for advertising on tv is different from the newspaper screamer ads here in NJ.

rroyce10

....... Doesn't sound any different than any of the local furniture, gutter, window outlets ......

                               Terry.

Kirstie_H

Yeah,they've all got screamer ads - the difference is that they're not talking about a trade-in. I'm not sure how they can say that legally, given that I doubt my equation would work in real life:
T/I: worth $1500, monkey gives $8000
Purchase: used vehicle worth $7000
Sounds like they owe me $1000... bet I don't get it

driftracer

I've listened to their ads for several years now. I've actually been called on to investigate their practices, and as sleazy as they are, they cover themselves legally - I was disappointed NOT to be able to find a leak in the tactics.

With TV advertising, disclaimers aren't necessary. With print, or in-person advertising, where the consumer goes to the place of business with an ad in-hand, the disclaimers must be present.

The $8,000 for your trade? In the one example I was given, with our NBC-10 spy cameras, they showed me a 1998 Hyundai Elantra for $13,995 - at the time, it was a $1500-2000 car, and the only care that the $8k worked on....do the math, and see how they can give you $8k for your trade...

Kirstie_H

Must be the area - I know where I live, when one of those ads comes on the radio/TV, at the very end there's a guy who speaks auctioneer-fast with all of the disclaimers. Not that you can understand them, but you know they're there.

driftracer

because they actually will give you $8k for you $100 car - against a $2,000 car priced at $13,995....

frankdnj

The big bold purchase price with the tiny disclaimer down the bottom "with $4000 down cash or trade". I see it all the time with the local Nissan dealer's newspaper ads.

It's even more annoying when they list all of their used vehicles this way. That really cheap $9,999 2002 Ford Taurus with 80,000 miles is really $13,999, when it's not even worth $9,999.

I'd like to know the percentage of buyers who come in with the ad in hand, having not read the disclaimer.

asafonov

Yes, it is annoying/funny to see ads that include customer cash/trade to arrive at "Final Best Price." A number that includes (substracts) any money from the seller is not a "price."

Though I am sure this is completely legal.

driftracer

and draws in droves of people who don't read the fine print...thus, effective advertising, and money well spent.

boomer1b

Thanks.....I knew there was a loophole somehow with the TV ads. The Philly news has full disclamers in all car ads.................

Leaving for NY tomorrow, so gonna head out for my last cheesesteak and a few beers..........

stickguy

they have beer in NY too. Trust me on this one (I grew up there). Hard to find a good cheesesteak though.

manamal

Pats or Ginos? I can hardly wait until thanksgiving where I have my annual post thanksgiving chesestake (one from pats, one from ginos).

How about: buy our car or I will eat another cheesestake (from a man on life support after a heart attack?)

boomer1b

My family here near Philly say Johns is the best.
Johns is near the docks near Oregon just about under the Ben Frankin bridge.
The crew here don't like driving thru those questionable areas to get to pats or ginos !

Me ...I will eat any of them.....YUMMY !!!!

BTW: Got my supply of Tastykakes to take home too !

To keep on topic.The car ads in Sundays Philly paper still amaze me.

tazereli

leave pats and ginos for the tourists. Go to Jim's on south.

Drift: Do you work for or with NBC-10? You've lent an enourmous amount of good advice on these boards. Have you done and sort of investigative work on any of the philly area Subaru dealers? I'll be in the market for one in about a year and I'd like to make sure I pick the best one.

Thanks,
Kyle

driftracer

No problems with any of the Philly area Subaru dealers - Subaru dealers, and the manufacturer, are the most up and up breed going, from what I'm seeing.

I don't work for NBC-10, but I've helped Tracy Davidson with some investigative work and have done a few interviews. They use some of my material for consumer action line stories.

boomer1b

Me bad...Walt Whitman bridge.....Not BF.

The SS United States is docked near Johns.
You can see it when eating outside.
I read where it holds a few speed records to this day !

KCRam

Thanks for the Philly travelog, but we can get back to vehicles now

jglackin

I work at a dealership in the same market as that dealer. Listen closely, after they say,"your trade is worth $8000," they say, "or we'll make your first three payments." And, of course, they will be happy to inflate the selling price of the car as well to compensate for the overallowance for the trade.
BTW...Tony Luke's has the best steaks.

michaellno

...is offering something pretty amazing.

"We'll pay your original MSRP in trade value!".

Now, I haven't seen the fine print on this, but you gotta believe it's there somewhere.

My Saturn stickered for something like $25K, I currently owe $17K on it, so I can apply that $8K of equity to a new car, truck, minivan or SUV?

Sign me up!

NOT!