Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I'm afraid that driftracer, Terry, & others are right when they state that there is no "invoice" on used vehicles. Dealers can tag the vehicle with any price, and they can sell it at any mutually-agreed price, with or without warranty. This is all part of the negotiation process. I'm not sure what you're saying - are you indicating that the purchase price listed on your paperwork is not what you actually paid?
The only remaining issue for debate is with the bar & sensors - the wreck is really irrelevant, except inasmuch as it enabled you to discover the missing elements. If your paperwork explicitly states that there is no written or implied guarantee regarding the vehicle's condition, you are probably out of luck. Your best option is to take all of your paperwork, including any mechanical inspection, to an attorney.
Unfortunately, we can't offer legal advice here, and that's your only option. Our shopping discussions mainly deal with questions prior to the finalization of a contract; after there's a contract, it's usually up to you, the dealership, and any attorneys to sort out.
kirstie_h
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I give up at this point but I do wish you well.
Yay! My membership to CCBA just might get renewed!
Mark
I'm in Western WA, and I am curious as to where you bought the car.
Anyway, drive safe out here. I see more than a few of the 2fast2furious set get their 5 minutes of fame being pulled from their modded cars by the jaws of life.
I have a hard time digesting it. When I order a $40 computer part, the store sends me a tracking number, and at any time I can check where the package is, and what is scheduled delivery date. How a dealer cannot know and have no way to find out where a $20,000 car is, is frankly beyond me. Is this for real, or the dealer is playing games? Thanks!
There isn't a tracking number like with the Flowmaster muffler I ordered from Jeg's, and knew this morning that it was on the FedEx truck for delivery...
I'm assuming two things - (a) it would be ghastly expensive to initiate a formal vehicle tracking system, thereby further raising the price of a vehicle, and (b) dealers aren't beating the manufacturers up for exact delivery times and dates, because in most cases, there's no need.
Having a deposit on it guarantees it's yours, and when the dealer says it'll be there within the next two weeks, that's likely all the info they have.
It really isn't rocket science... I'm thinking that they could track it to within one day either way, without much trouble or added expense.. If they can just-in-time the thousands of parts that go into a car, surely they can track something that only fits 12 to a semi..
I think many dealers know that its going to be two weeks.... but, they won't tell the customer, because they want the sale..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Hi, I'm in the Seattle area. I bought the car up north on HWY 99 in Everett. Not driving yet. Doing my homework here before I buy my next car. This has been one hell of a learning experience.
Nadine
Good luck in the whole deal.
Why could that be best thing?? Car is 90% totaled...
No Collision - so I pay for repairs out of pocket.
Nadine
Are you saying you bought it for cash? Usually when there's a loan involved, collision insurance is a requirement.
Also, I'm with drift... insurance or no insurance, unless it's $2,000 or so to fix the car, better to just junk it... it won't be worth much after it's been through the body shop.
-Mathias
My comment only would apply if the car had collision/comprehensive insurance.
Mark
anyway, good luck with your next car purchase. hopefully you and your roomie can work out a "financial arrangement" in light of what happened to your car. when doing your homework, be sure to check out the boards in here, especially "real world trade in values", where you can get a better idea of what you should pay for the car you're looking at before you get down to price negotiations.
It seems to me, though, that you're not seeing the forest for the trees. You went on incessantly about a discount you may have gotten or not - you DID get a discount, although in my opinion, you needed to do some more research, because the price you paid was over NADA retail. You learned to look at a different source for your next bit of pre-purchse information.
Your second quest concerned the warranty - no dealer HAS to put a warranty on a used car - period. Having a wreck, though, doesn't involve any warranty, since a warranty covers mechanical breakdown, not driver negligence. The warranty, in this case, is a completely moot point.
It seems that you're tearing up the roads looking for a legal remedy, when I would be looking my roommate square in the eye. You're obsessing over how much of a discount you got and what warranty applies, when neither have anything to do with the accident or recovery. You seem to blame everyone else in this whole scenario except the person who, while driving your new (to you) car, wrecked it. And you don't have insurance to cover the loss. To me, if that person didn't stand up and do the right thing, I'd take them to small claims court.
Many lessons learned here, and unfortunately, you were financially screwed at the end of the story. Again, I'm not amused or laughing - if you were my little sister, I'd be helping you take your roommate to court, plus looking into the dealer for the missing reinforcement bar issue.
Terry.
Or the family suing to recover millions because their son was shot during a home invasion rape/robbery...and he was the one raping and robbing...
Those examples are much stronger, of course, but you'd better bet that my roommate and I would be coming to an agreement ASAP.
Roomates seem to be a problem on those shows.
I know this is a serious topic for Nadine, but I just see a little humor in trying to get the roomie to pay....
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
We looked around, took a test drive, and left. A pleasant experience, to that point.
A week or so later, I get a phone call...they have a beautiful 300, loaded, and in the color we had expressed interest in. "Come on down!" You betcha.
My wife's brother works at the Chrysler assembly plant here in town, and we are eligible for a substantial discount from invoice. We have used his Daimler-Chrysler ID# (DCID), on three other occasions. I know the routine, and so does the dealer.
Having said that, it was a $29,700 car, with the W. P. Chrysler Signature Series upgrades...$3700 in upgrades, no additional charge. Our out the door price, for a $33K+ car? Under 27K.
Nice if you can do it...and we could. There was no negotiation on the price...I would be buying it cheaper than the employees in the dealership.
Here's the rub. My trade would have been a 2003 Chrysler PT Turbo cruiser. The TMV, in "good" condition, was about 14K. KBB was even higher. All I was asking for was WHOLESALE on the trade. Sure, I could have probably sold it for 15,500 through the paper...heck, there are several in the area for sale in the dealerships for $18,999.
They offered me 11K. Take it or leave it, non-negotiable trade.
I got up, and asked for my keys back. It took ten full minutes to get out of the door, with me becoming increasingly strident.
They kept telling me that they can get the full 30K retail from the 300, and that they didn't need, or want my car.
I kept telling them that they KNEW I would be getting a Green Sheet deal, and that the purchase price of the new vehicle was MUCH less than MSRP. They called me, not the other way 'round.
Their way of making a profit was to make 4-7 thousand dollars off the trade, in addition to the hold back on the new vehicle.
Nobody is going to make 7K on a trade from me...now now, not ever.
So, my wife and I stomped out. A week later, I get an e-mail from my salesman, saying that the car was still on the lot, and to come back and talk.
I e-mailed HIM back, and said that unless they were willing to pay WHOLESALE on my trade, as a MINIMUM, then we couldn't do business.
We are playing chicken ... and I'm not going to break. It helps that I love my turbo cruiser.
And no, there wasn't any trick by the dealer.
If you really think they are jobbing you, go to a different dealer. The 30 0price s/b the same, and you will have a new perspective on the PT
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
KS......Is right ...Post over to RRTVs and Terry will tell ya what its REALLY worth !
I have the same car (2003 PT GT, silver) with more miles and have been offered $9-10k....don't be insulted, it's just the way the market is - these cars are "soft", and since that's what dealers pay at auction, there's no reason to pay more for yours.
Driftracer is right, sell it yourself if you can!
When cars are in high demand like maybe the Chrysler 500 is, Then some dealers are not too enthusiastic about taking an employee deal. They can sell these cars at MSRP or higher and generate much more profit than an employee deal. I know for example that If I were to try to get the employee price on say a 2005 Corvette that I would get laughed off the lot. If you were to read the fine print on your employee purchase documents you'll see that it is the dealers option to sell you a car. It's nothing personal, it's just a business decision.
So what I am wondering is: Was the price of your PT really lowballed or does the dealer just not want your business all that bad ?? Said another way, Perhaps the lowball offer on your trade makes up for the lost profits that a high demand car can get. Think about it from the dealers point of view, If you could sell every 500 at list or better why would you even consider an employee deal ?
My advice, if you can wait the 6 months or a year for the Chrysler 500 to cool off then you'll get the employee price plus maybe some incentives. If you have to have it now then you'll just have to pay the going rate.
But, I could be wrong...
So if you want to waste your money, go pay list price or higher on this years hot model.
However my point about employee prices on in-demand models is valid. No dealer is obligated to do an employee deal on any car.
"Everything I look at says 15K or above, the dealer is offering just $12,800.
I would be getting a 2005 Chrysler 300, using a green sheet (below invoice), so I suspect he is trying to find some profit here.
Now what? He has a 2003 Turbo, red instead of the blue that I have, and is pricing it at 17K. Is this reasonable? That he is asking for more than 4K profit for my trade?"
Out of 20, at least 12-15 per week are bought through GM employee purchase plans. I'm not saying the cases aren't valid, **some** are, but it's funny that the people who walk in with preset pricing, far below what anyone else can do, are also the biggest complainers and most willing, it seems, to sue the manufacturer. Many, of course, are very brazen in the fact that they are actual GM employees who have signed mediation agreements.
Just an intersting aside from my personal data bank.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
thanks, Hogan
I think it is very reasonable to let them use our SSN to do a credit check on us if they want to.
The dealers have never asked us to wait for the check to clear before we take the car. We give them a check, hop in the car, rev it to the redline, drop the clutch, and we are gone.
Well, maybe I exaggerate a little, but you get the idea.
They want a deposit before they jump through hoops, plus to cover the expenses of a dealer trade, plus to know you're serious, plus to make sure they get the deal instead of the dealer down the street. The last thing they want to do is epnd money to go get a leftover 2004 and end up sitting on it (eating the cost of the trade and the vehicle)...
As long as you're committed, and they actually have a vehicle they can get that fits your needs, you shouldn't have a problem dropping a deposit, and they shouldn't have a problem getting the vehicle for you ASAP.