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Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Volkswagen Passat



  • fitz10fitz10 Posts: 1
    I test drove a Passat GLS, 4 cyl w/tiptronic yesterday. I loved the way it handled on city streets but was disappointed when I took it on the freeway. The ride was VERY bumpy. I had a passenger in the back seat who said it was bad back there also. This is important to me as I do alot of highway driving. As for everything else, I loved it (except cupholders of course). The braking was tremendous. I liked the feel, very safe and solid.
    I also drove the Honda EX. Very boring compared to the Passat.
  • Hey, I have recently been looking for an accord EX with V6 and was wondering what was the best price anyone had negotiated. In northern california, I have negotiated a deal at $800 over invoice and destination, and they'll throw in the mats for free. Does that sound pretty fair, or has anyone been able to do better on this car. (it would be in the color of my choice). TIA for the help
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    My comparison of the three cars with 4-cylinders (did that two years ago):
    Positive- Okay handling at low speeds, superb control at highway speeds. Excellent braking (panic). Best acceleration at any speed. The only car with two possible attitude. Drive it hard or drive it leisurely. It responds well to both. Perhaps one of the few cars that still makes me drive more than I'd normally do. Superb highway manners, best visibility, and comfortable seats. Standard list of equipment had minimum intrusion from dealer. Gas mileage, best: 32 mpg, normal city: 25-26 mpg, Texas summer (city): 23-24 mpg. Roomiest car of the three, and best ergonomics.
    Negative-More roadnoise on concrete roads than that in Camry, and not as soft riding as Camry. No audio system upgrade available (wish, atlest the Bose system from Acura CL was available as option).

    Positive- Best handling of the three, and nice standard features. Good low end torque. Good brakes. Good acceleration.
    Negative- Compact room, especially in the rear. Priced high with 1.8T which didn't impress me. High speed is felt lot more easily than that in Accord. 2-year bumper-to-bumper is the worst offering, although drivetrain warranty is very good.

    Positive- Once my favorite, has still got isolated cabin and a smooth drivetrain, decent brakes.
    Negative- Body roll, loss of control at high speeds, soft suspension forces the rear down with two adults in the backseat, and too much of isolation to really enjoy the car. And just about everything is optional (may be a good thing for some, not to me).

    While reliability has never been a problem for a Honda or Toyota, the VW offers the best drivetrain coverage. However, the best warranty is that is never used! Hopefully VW will get out of that stigma, and offer a better value and service on the Passat than they do currently. I drove home Accord EX (w/leather/auto for $21.2K). After 30,750 miles, it has not gotten any additional work, other than oil change and scheduled maintenance (7500 mile). Oh yes, just needed some lube on the moonroof to get rid of some creaking sound after six months. It is solid as new.
  • I've visited 3 dealers. The best price I've been able to get on a 2000 Camry XLE V6 is $25,450. that's all-inclusive w/o taxes. includes the Value Package ($994), Glass Break Sensor ($62), Armrest ($40), and Traction control ($240). ideally i was hoping for $25,000. but considering 2 of the 3 dealers didn't want to go below 26, im guessing that the 25,450 is reasonable for an order-from-the-factory 2000 Camry. Is that an accurate assessment, or should I keep looking at other dealers?

  • Bought a 99 Accord EX in July 99. Like everything about the car except for the ride. I drive app. 150 miles a day up and down the turnpike and it seems that the car transmits every bump into the cabin. Is the suspension set up like that? I occasionally drive my 95 Nissan sentra and ride is unbelievably smoother by far. The easiest way to explain it is that it feels like the car has solid rubber tires! I'm constantly getting bounced up and down. My experience is that the suspension should soak up most of the bumps. I've had the tires rotated and balanced, because I feel some vibration in the front end at speeds around 60 and up. I guess I should have the dealer check out the alignment and suspension. A quick question - Has anybody changed tires on their Accord? The Michelin MXV4's seem to be a mix between performance and touring tires. Maybe their a bit too hard. I was wondering if anybody had put some other brand of tire on their car which gave a softer ride. I understand that the handling might suffer a little, but most of my driving is just up and down the turnpike. Thanks for any responses!
  • My dealer was trying to sell me the Vehicle Protection Plan(Etching of VIN # or Nehicle # on window glass), for easy recognition in the case of theft for $129. I live in Jersey City, having a very high theft rate.
    Does it makes sense to get my windows etched and how much should it cost... Can I get it etched from any particular kind of shop in the market???
  • Dealer told me that 2000 Honda Accord Ex with Leather seats doesn't come with SIde air bags, whereas both Edmunds and Carpoint web sites say that it comes with side air bags.
    Can somebody throw some more light on this...
  • I'm confused too. Some info implies that you can even get side air bags if you get the LX with leather?
  • First thing, leather is not offered on the LX trim.

    Only the V6 Accords and I4 EX with leather have driver and passenger side air bags.... others do not.
  • I have been looking for a Camry LE with the upgraded JBL radio only to be told they are not available. Has anyone purchased this option?
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    JBL radio is AVAILABLE for the 2000 Camry LE. It's a $218 (invoice) and $290 MSRP option. Both Edmunds and Kelly's Bluebook list it clear as crystal.

    The dealer is either B.S'ing, don't know what he is talking about, or trying to move you towards a more expensive model.

    Try another salesmen. Or try another dealership that will sell you one. Best of luck.
  • I plan on buying a car next week. I read
    all the discussion on the "best" mid-sized sedan
    and I feel very confused. I want a car that is
    "fun" to drive, has excellent brakes, great acceleration and high reliability. I am tempted
    to buy a Passat but I am afraid of regretting
    my decision if something goes wrong. Also it
    seems that it is more expensive (invoice 21K for
    4 cylinder) than a camry V6 or accord V6 9invoice
    20K). Also the premium fuel requirement and
    infamous high cost for German car repairs is
    holding me back. It also seems Volkswagon dealers
    are arrogant because of CR rating the passat as
    their top choice. So what should I do?. I
    do not want to spend more than 23K at the most.
    Please help with your suggestions and comments.
    a 91 accord and my heart wants to drive a different car.
  • In response to your transmison problem I own a 96 Ex 4 which is a wonderful car. When you go around a corner and then step on gas the down shift is abrupt. That is just Honda. I also own a Camry V6 and the auto trany is glass smooth.
  • juzefjuzef Posts: 37
    After months of shopping, analysis, test drives, and obtaining objective opinions as well as subjective ones..I've decided on a car.
    My criteria was that it must be a smart car. An
    intellegent choice. I wanted a V6 that would last
    as well as one I'd love to drive. I wanted
    something that was practical, useful and fun.
    It had to be pretty but not immature. I'm a 26
    year old single young man who is thinking of the future. My wild adventurous days are far from over, but I can't be as crazy as I was five years
    ago. After all, thrity is just around the corner,
    and I want this car to be with me when I get there.
    You've probably figured that it boiled down to
    two cars early in the decision making process. The Accord V6 EX and the Camry V6 LXE with the works. The Camry looks sweeter to me and it's
    true what they say about it's strong and smooth
    ride. The transmission is silk. It suits me perfect. I'm a professional, graduated from college three years ago and I've had my wild taste
    of life. It's time to mix in responsibility and
    security with the game of life as well as keep it
    fun. I chose the Camry..I purchace it in a few days. Although the price is $2,000 more than the
    Accord EX, I figured, it's worth the free conscience. Can't wait to pick this car up.
    2000 Camry XLE V6/auto/sedan with the HZ package
    in cashmere beige, mud gaurds, and alloy wheel locks. All for $25,600.

    Hope you folks are as satisfied with your decisions..I think I am.

  • gee, I didn't know buying the Accord meant living on the "wild" side..... Accord is just as good as Camry, even better, in most categories.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558

    Great job. Saw many of your posts through out the whole buying process. And you have found the car that you are most happy with, and THAT is an intelligent choice. Wow, an XLE-V6, that almost carry some luxury status. It's arguably the classest car in the midsize catagory. Enjoy your car. :)


    People should buy what they like. And seems like More people like Camry than Accord by sales figure. Again, this year (1999), so far up to October, more people has choose the Camry than the Accord, even more than last two years. Honda Accord is an excellent car by all means, but Camry is no slouch either. Accord leads in sportier handling, and the Camry leads in riding comfort. I guess it's just that family car buyers are more partial about comfort than sporty feelings.

    And Accord being on the "wild" side, well there is some truth to that since the Accord has a higher death, injury and collision claim rate than the Camry. I guess it does sort of put it on the "wild"-er side of the Camry. :)
  • gee wenyue,

    Didn't we already go through this before? First of all, Accord is still #1 in RETAIL SALES, which does not include FLEET SALES, which are 3 or more sales to a single entity (such as rental car companies). It's why my brother who travel all around the country, can't find an Accord to rent, while Camrys are plentiful. Secondly, Honda hasn't offered any rebates or $0 drive-off leases that Toyota has bombarded the media with, the last couple of years.

    I thought it was proven that the current Accord was safer compared to current Camry. Camry w/ side air bag faired the same as the Accord w/o it. Since '00 Accords (EX, V6) have standard side air bags, it will be alot safer. You death rate data is about as outdated as disco. They are not current and therefore not indicitive of the current models, especially the Accord, since it went through a major redesign. Plus, Saturn had lower death rates, so I guess that means its safer than Camry.

    Btw, I saw the new Camry with the redesigned rear tail lights.... it was a big improvement over the previous one..... but still ugly compared to Accord's.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    thank you HondaBro I could not have said it better
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Toyota lead the RETAIL sale period. That's that. Enough said. :) Oh, and don't forget, you are assuming that the Camry Solara also has fleet sale. I don't think so, at least not in any noticable numbers since it's selling so hot, why would any dealer sell these golden goose to fleet sale? That just means the retail sale difference is even larger. :)

    Yup, they did offer 750 rebate back then. No different than Honda's low interest rate now. What's the difference? Both are aimed to get more cars off the lot. Am I to say that Honda is also despirate?

    Camry Solara is not a camry? Where did you get that notion? It's external styling is a little different than the Camry sedan, but I see that the Accord coupe's styling is also little different than the Accord sedan. I suppose that means the Accord coupe is not an Accord?

    I don't care if you think the end is a turn off or not. The fact is it's flying off the lots as fast as Toyota could build them.

    The fact is Camry Solara is a Camry. Every automotive magazine and industrial expert stated so. I guess I should listen to you instead of all the people who knows the business inside and out.

    And as to why Toyota didn't build a coupe a while back? Don't ask me. You don't know, and I don't know. It's those corporate jockeys who decides. There are endless possibilites as to why they waited until 99 to put it out. But that doesn't change the fact that the the Camry sedan and coupe is number 1 in all sales catagories. :)

    Camry LE for $5K off the sticker? Where?! I want one. Our dealer here in Michigan, only several hundred miles away from the Geogetown Camry manufacturering plant, is only selling the Camry at $500 over invoice. :( Hey, I would like to get my hands on one of the $15k Camry LE, and many of my friends would too, after paying nearly $19K for them. $15K, hum, that's almost $4000 under invoice. It's impossible. You are making it up. If not, then give me that supposed dealerships number, I will call them up and get one for one of my friends who are looking for one. :) Thanks in advance.

    Truth is, over here, Toyota dealer are not despirate to sell the Camry at all. It's the number 1 selling car after all. Why would any dealer sell it for $4000 under invoice? It's a real money maker. And toyota dealer aren't worried, Camrys sell themselves.

    When did I say Camry has a better resale value? Hummmm... I guess you facbricated... erh.. concluded that one as well. Now let me put it in writing. Yes, the Accord does have a tiny resale lead over Camry. But the lead is hardly significant. 2%? That's what? $300! WOW, that's a lot of money for a $23,000 car. The truth is, both used Accords and Camry are hot sellers. Enough said. Such petty difference is not even worth noticing.

    Camry W/ sideair bags got 17 stars. Accord got 16 stars. Dealers order many if not most of the LE and XLE with side airbags. So side airbag is more of a standard than an option on the Camry. So I will go with the crash test with side airbag. And with side airbag, if you look at the actual data itself. Click on the test data page, and you will see that the tests for the Camry has a lower trauma rating than the Accord even when they have the same star rating. I conclude the Camry is safer. That's annalyzing data.

    Oh, and look at the death rate. The Accord has only a 3% higher collision rate. But a 14% higher injury and death rate. So what does that tell you? -- The Accord doesn't protect the people inside as well. That's also annalyzing data.

    Enough said.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Hondabro. I think we all know which camp we are in. There is no point in debating. We can say what ever you want, and that's not going to change anything about the real world situation. Besides, typing these endless debate is a waste of time. I just better things to do. The world will always go onto another day.

    I sincerely hope that Accord will prove itself to be safer than the camry. I really do. I am not one of those people who enjoy seeing people injured or dead. I hope all cars can be as safer, especially the family cars such as Camry and Accord. I hope the Accord can prove itself by showing a lower injury rate over time, and the added side airbag for the V6 Accord is a step in the right direction. Best of luck.
  • wenyue,

    It's a fact that "Camry" Solara isn't a Camry, according to an article I read, it was suppose to be a separate coupe model (i.e. Prelude). That is the reason why it looks nothing like the Camry, inside or out. Why didn't they just call it Camry coupe then? They added the "Camry" name to it for obvious reasons. I'm not making this up, it was an article in a car magazine, which I read while my car was being serviced. If they still have the magazine, I'll write down the page #, so you can goto your local library to look it up.

    On the other hand, Accord sedan and coupe are almost identical, except for the # of doors and the rear end. The interior dash and front grill and identical. The engines are also identical.

    It's a FACT that Camry coupe was dropped due to slow sales. Also read this in a magazine. Why would a car be axed if it's making profit? That makes ZERO economical sense. It's no different than the wagon being dropped. No appeal=no sale=no go.

    It's interesting that, previously, you claimed Solara WASN'T a Camry, and even claimed the total Camry sales DIDN'T include Solara sales. It's true that without the Solara, Camry would be lagging behind Accord in sales.

    The fact of the matter is, everything being equal, Accord BESTS Camry in the NHTSA crash test. Camry NEEDS an OPTIONAL side-air bags to surpass Accord ratings. Since most '00 Accords have STANDARD side-airs bags, it should SURPASS Camry in the crash tests. Anyways, most Camry's do NOT come equipped with side-air bags, at least not in LA, where "LE" is the most common cars.

    "And here is the big shocker. Accord has no more resale lead either. Not any more it aint. :)"

    Accord has HIGHER RESALE VALUE, get used to it. Not only are they PRICED LESS, you get MORE return on it when you resell it.

    Last weekend, Southbay Toyota (Long Beach, CA) and another dealer were selling the '00 Camry LE's for less than $16K. Since the ads have expired, I'll post this weekend when the ad's appear again.

    When did Honda offer low financing on Accords? The 3.9% is only for Civics ONLY. I know they offered 6.9% on USED Accords once, but not new. Maybe you're in fairy tales land. Btw, those "end of the year clearance" sales ads are nothing but a gimmick to get you into the show room. Notice how they never entice you with a rebate and low financing rates? Well, it's because they aren't offering any.

    I think if you had an open mind, you'd see that Accord bests Camry in value, resale value, refinement, styling, and safety. Too bad your bias wont let you be objective.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    I have had wasted too much time. As for that "resale" statement. It's a typo. It's "retale". That's why I listed the sales figure right under it to support my statement. Didn't catch it. Sorry about that.

    Safety? Camry is safer by 14% demonstrated everday. I doubte that the Accords add side airbag can fully make up for it. And the Accord DX, hot selling LX, and the new SE trims don't have side-airbags. I guess the number of Accords sold with side airbags will be rought the same number as the Carmy with that options installed.

    Camry so far has been safer for last 9 years straight. We shall see if the Accord can make up for that 14% injury and death rate this year. :)

    I won't bother to post again. It's pointless to debate with you. I have better things to do. C-ya.
  • wenyue,

    Accord is hardly a death-trap, as you make it out to be. It probably hasn't been as safe as Camry prior to '98 models, but it's a fact that current Accord has better crash test rating than the Camry. We'll see how well both do in the future.

    Btw, real world death rates can be very misleading..... as I've pointed out before, sports cars like Mustang has higher death rates than small sub-compacts like the Metro. Mustang has much better crash test protection and rating but is poor in real world, probably due to lot of lead-foot teenagers who drive them. Plus, Caravan has high death rates, but alot of them had to do with the faulty rear latch which threw children out the rear gate to their deaths. Like I said, unless cause of death is identified, death rates are misleading.
  • j973j973 Posts: 1
    I am looking 2000 EX soon. The dealer have
    call me and offer my $20,935, but I have not
    bargin with them yes. The car is full load it
    except the leather pacakage. What is the
    fair price should I pay for it.
    thank you.
  • What is the straight talk about he 2000 Honda EX V6? It realy seems to be a comfortable ride and has many good options.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    That data include the 1998 Accord model. It's been updated. It still fared worse.

    I agree that Accord is not the death trap it is. It really is not. It's injury rate is about average. And that's not bad. But Camry is just 14% lower in injury. No, I never said that the Accord is unsafe.

    I wouldn't compare a metro and a mustang in injury rate when you are comparing 2 comparable cars such as the Accord and Camry. One is orange and apple (mustang vs metro) and the other is apple vs. apple (Camry vs. Accord). In this case the two cars are almost identical and used for same purpose. Perfect for comparision between death and injury rates.

    Anyway, this is my last post. I just got myself a brand new computer. NEC brand, 500 MHz AMD-Athlon processor, it's fast as lighting, just waiting for me put few hours behind it. Almost as much fun as a new car. ;) Best wishes to Accord owners. Accords are good cars, and you can be proud. So can the #1 selling Camry owners out there. :) See ya, and off to have some fun.
  • Hi, folks,

    The local dealer just called me to offer 99 accord Ex auto with 19150, is it a good price? I have to decide quick. Thanks.
  • fstar, if it's new, go for it. It's a great price.
  • hondabro99,

    Yeah, it is a new one, no trade in. I think I will go for it. Thanks.

    BTW, how many people here get the extended warranty? I know Accord is a very reliable car, so I am leaning to not buying it.
  • fstar,

    Personally, I think a extended warrany is a waste of money. I did buy one for my '98 Accord, but cancelled it a few days later. I'm glad, because I ended up selling my Accord only after a year. I probably wouldn't have gotten much for it in resale value, just like LoJack, which is non transferable, therefore, it was money down the drain.

    If your car proves unreliable, very unlikely, during the first three years, you can purchase the extended warranty then, with, for example. Or you can open a savings account and keep it as a "rainy" day fund for unexpected repairs. You'll probably never need it.
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