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Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Volkswagen Passat



  • garyligaryli Posts: 2

    I am also looking for 2000 Accord EX and $100 over invoice is an excellent deal. Which car
    dealer in Nj did you get it from?
  • There's a Saying...
    If ur happy with a dealer, u'll tell it to 3 people.
    If u UNHAPPY with a dealer, u'll tell it to 10 people.
    Let me put it straight,
    salesman TONNY
    salesman SCOTT
    Scott was so rude as to call me on Sat and then tell me that the color is not available as they sold 15 EX that day by afternoon.
    Bothe salesmen were adding DOcumentation fee and blah..blah..
    WIsing u all the best. You can refer my name to Igor.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Those are one of the kind ads. I bet you find the sticker number in small prints right under there. This is a old trick. One car that that price, and when you get there that car has "just been sold". Or it's a demo, or was damaged on the lot.

    2000 Camry LE's invoice is $18,216. There IS NO rebates or low rate financing going on right now. To sell the car at $2000 under invoice makes no sense unless (1) there is something wrong with their head (2) it's either another "one of its kind" old trick, a demo, a damaged goods, or (3) they are liquidating their whole lot and going out of business. I think choice 2 is most likely.

    In fact, if you check the dealer's web site, they refuse to list the price for any of their cars. Humm... I wonder why? Because posting the real price would foil their "one of it's kind" ad? It's quite obvious.

    here, check out the real camry price.
    You will see that they don't sell the Camry too cheaply. :) If fact, if you go to, and pull up the dealer locator. And go to any toyota dealers, you wil find that Camry's don't go cheaply. If rest of the world are not selling the best seller, than it could only mean that single dealership you saw was playing a jedi mind trick.

    Oh, as for the 98 used camry. The car's value is largely based on the number of miles. You put 80,000 miles on that 98 camry, of course that camry is going for $12,976. Same thing would happen, if you put that many miles on an Accord.

    The truth is Camry's resale is extremely close to that of the Accord. 2% in difference ($300 differenc). If you really want to know what used Camry are going for, check out And their used car ads section. Dealers are listing 2 years old 98 Camry LE with 33,000 miles for at least $15.5K ($3K under new car invoice), never mind $13K. It would be even more ridiculous to assume that they would sell a brand new 2000 LE for $16,276 ($700 more than the a 2 year old Camry with 33,000 miles on them).

    So as you can see from the above link, I doubt the resales is being hurt by one wacky dealer selling "one of it's kind" car.
  • wenyue,

    I knew you were gonna say that. Actually, there's 8 VIN's listed for that price $16,200. So it's not "one only". Maybe before I bought my Honda CR-V, I would've agreed that those ad's were a scam, but my CR-V was an advertised vehicle also. Not "one only" but rather "two at this price". I bought is at approx. $700 under invoice.

    Also, that '98 Camry at $12K can not have 80K miles as you suggested. It's a CERTIFIED VEHICLE. Toyota will NOT certify a used car with that kind of a mileage. Plus, it's a 3 years old vehicle, who da hell puts 27K miles a year on a car????? You can speculate all you want, but all you have to do is call that 800 toll-free number and your doubts will be removed. Dial it!
  • Wenyue and hondabro99,

    I am living in the east coast, here the camry price is not as cheap as west coast. Somehow in LA area, the camry is really cheap. I have two friends who bought the Camry LEs for just over 16,000 this year. I hope I live there.:)

    But the Honda Accord price is not that different, another friend got one LX 5 sp for over 16,000.

    They are both good cars. I like the look of Honda and ride, and the dealer is pretty good, so I got the Accord EX. I am picking it up this Sunday. Except they want $99 for the floor mat, I reject it and got from the online for $65.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    I called them. Guess what. It's a one time promotional deal. They admit that they are selling below invoice on a hot selling car as a bait to grab customers. They have 6 of them. Same goes for you CR-V (why would a Honda dealer sell a hot selling car at $700 below invoice? Are they despirate? The answer is "no".)

    This remindes me of when and was selling the 99 Acura TL and Honda Odyssey at $500 below invoice and at invoice, when everyone else is selling at MSRP or more.

    I fully understand promotional strategies. It's a valid tactic to gain customer base. So Southbay happen to use Camry. use TL and Odyssey. And your Honda dealership happened to use CR-V. The theme is to sell a hot seller at an incredibily low price to gain customers, lose money in the short term to make bigger profit for the long term.

    These tactics are few and far in between (for obvious reasons) to have any impact on the market.

    With that said, I think everyone living in LA area should jump on that deal before the few remaining camry LE on that one time promotional price get sold. :)

    Oh, as for that used 98 Camry. Even the used car salesman I talked to haven't heard of it. If it's a toyota certified Car, it will show up at under the certified car section. (toyota keep track of all car they certified), and they do not show a 98 Camry LE with the price you descirbed. The cheapest Certified Camry that Toyota corp has shown for a 1998 Camry LE is $15,000. And Toyota Certified vehicles can have up to 65,000 miles on it. Read it on

    I bet that used car is either anothe Promoitional deal, or or a recently certified camry with close to 65,000 miles on it (That would still be too cheap. A 98 Camry LE with 65,000 miles on it will still have a market price of $14,000).

    I guess that dealership is in some sort of feeding frenzy, trying to grab customers like crazy. Maybe they are trying to kill some near buy up start competitor, maybe it's one of their grand strategies. Who knows. But hey, if those prices are for real, grab them while you can. The rest of us who are not in that part of LA this exact time will just have to live with the regular $19K price of the Camry and it's high resale price.

    Good job grabbing a deal on your CR-V deal while it lasted. I sure some lucky guy is grabbing that Camry deal while it last as well. :)
  • akin1akin1 Posts: 1
    I have a 98 Honda. I don't like the way it drives. Its all over the road like a go-kart. I replaced the front tires drives a little better. Other then it driving like a go-kart, it has given me no other problems
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Is there some special Camry promotion in the LA area that's not in the rest of the country? What's with that? Or has the LA smog gotten into their heads? I have lived in Texas, Nebraska, Connecticut, and now Michigan, never seen any body sell a new camry LE even $500 under invoice (even those "one of its kind" ads didn't dare doing that).

    Too bad we don't live in L.A. Wait, what am I saying! :)

    Hey, congradualitions on getting that LX. I guess you like sportier rides over quiet and soft rides that I prefer. Anyway, Accord LX for $16,000! What a deal. But I can't believe the dealer didn't throw in the floor mats. What are they going to do with a pile of left over floor mats? Have fun driving.
  • I think Camry in LA area is always cheap, not one time deal like you said. Since my friends there kept getting the Camry both last year and this year around that 16,000 price. Same is the San Diego, very cheap, they are near anyway.

    I live in Boston, the price is a different story. I bought an Accord EX Auto, for 19,150. The ride is fine, not that bad. Do not like the back of Camry at all. And the acceleration is faster for accord.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    maybe you are right. But it's one time deal with the dealer I talked to. During my conversation with the dealer, I said "That's $2000 below invoice." He said "yeah, we are losing money on this deal, but we will money further down the road. We have this deal so NO BODY can beat us right now, and we have 6 of them left." I guess they are selling the 6 at a loss right now to grab more customers down the road. It was kind of funny talking to the guy. He was trying to give me the sales pitch with a strong spanish accent that makes me want to laugh. I think his name was "holio" or something like that. :)

    Glad that you like the ride of the Accord. I guess it's subject to personal preference. Some people like it hard, some people like it soft. I have read people here who traded in their 98 Accord for a 2000 camry because they just couldn't stand the ride any more. I have heard some complaint of people finding camry's suspension too soft as well.

    I agree, the new face lift of the Camry made the front look better than the Accord, but the rear of the Camry is not as good as the Accord's rear.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    I guess the dealer is telling a different story to everyone and any one. Ahh, but who cares. Toyota camry still sells strong, and the resale is still right up there. Seems like there are quite a few things in L.A that are different from the rest of the world. :)

    There is a big difference between the front facia of the 2000 Camry and a 99 Camry. I suggest you visit, check out the pictures for the new camrys. There is no way you can mistake a 99 camry for a 2000. See for yourself. :)

    I agree with the Avalon's new look. I think the front looks kind of like Lexus ES300, and the back looks kind of like Lexus GS300. I guess the designer used Cut&paste a lot. :)

    And you hit the nail on the head about the low low pricing. All those "shocker" pricing are just a ploy to get people to come in, knowing that people tend to buy something before they leave. I guess at least they have cars to back up those ads. Some of them don't even have a car, and just give you that "it's just been sold" line. I pretty much have learned, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I probably missed a few opportunities to get some really great deals, but I probably also saved myself a ton of time and frustration going on wild goose chases. Ahh life... :)

    Great job on gettin the CR-V. You said that had 2 of them at that "shocker" price. You are one lucky man. And that's the way to do it, refuse all the add on options. The trick as they say, is to know when to quit while you are winning :) It's interesting to note, it would seem that L.A dealer post their "shocker" price much lower than other places in the country. For example, here in Ann Arbor, these ads would never go beyound advertising an Accord or a Camry at $1 ABOVE invoice (haven't seen any ads going under invoice yet for Honda and Toyota). At above invoice, that's still believable and reasonable. But your CR-V at $700 Under Invoice, and the Camry at $2000 under invoice?!!! Man, I guess they really go to the extreme over there in L.A.

    Anyway, you are absolutely right. Those dealers are still raking in the dough somewhere. Probably in the options, financing and a ton of those bogus fees. Dealer are definitly not there to give out hot selling cars below invoice (cost).

    Anyway, off to take care of my wife. (damned flu!)
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Well, when they said the odyssey is the most powerful minivan, I'm sure they meant just by horse power. After all they didn't claim that the odyssey has the most power to weight ratio.

    That's why you got to be careful when reading some of those advertisement. Many words they use are subject to interpretations. That's why its important do research on your own.

    Yes, I too like the soft and quiet ride of the Camry. I'm not a performance oriented person. Luckily, Ann Arbor is a university and research centered city, so I'm living in the perfect crowd here :)
  • zhu,

    Actually, Odyssey is faster (9.3 sec compared to Sienna's 9.6 sec).... and can tow 4500lbs compared to Sienna's 1000lbs. That's pretty impressive for car that's heavier eh? 210hp isn't just for show, it actually helps outperforms its competition.


    Just saw another ad touting '00 Camry LE for $15,888 (2 at the price)! I'm actually thinking about buying one for my mom...... I mean, I can't even get within $1000 of that with an Accord. The lowest priced Accord is $17,400.

    As for the Accord handling better.... I have been in close-calls where this attribute has come in handy. One idiot stopped in front of me on a freeway and I was able to steer my Accord out of the way in time..... don't know if Camry would've been able to handle emergency handling as well. So better handling has its advantages.

    Don't be too jealous of our low prices.... there are disadvantages to living in LA, such as this morning's 7.0 (richter) earthquake.....
  • I am an owner of a 99 Accord. THe new '00 V6 and 4 cyl are 100K interval maintenance engines. What is the difference if any to these engines compared to the earlier 99. Are they the same and have been charging 98 and 99 owner the 15, 30, and 60k mile maintenance fees? Please advise
  • zhuzhu Posts: 6
    As to the 0-60 times, I don't think there are any statistical differences between Oddy and Sienna. Edmunds lists 9.6 sec for both '00 Oddy and Sienna. auto spec lists 0-60 times of 9.7 sec for '99 Sienna and 9.8 sec for '99 Oddy, quarter mile time of 16.5 sec for '99 Sienna and 17.3 sec for '99 Oddy. But also list '00 Sienna as 10.0 sec, no number for '00 Oddy. It all depends on who test them and we should quote the numbers from the same source. In spite the above numbers, I would still think that they are the same. As to the towing capacity, I am not surprised that Oddy's 210 hp has higher capacity. As far as I know, Oddy's towing capacity is listed from 2000 - 3500 lb, and I never heard of 4500 lb. The number for Sienna is 1000 lb but can be 3500 lb with towing package. Just pointed the facts.
  • zhu,

    The numbers I got are from Edmunds! It's a fact that Odyssey accelerates faster and tows more, those are the FACTS.
  • ww,

    The difference is that they don't change the spark plugs during the 30K, 60K, 90K mile services. But they still must perform vital services such as draining and refilling fluids. I'm sure they still charge the same for those services and explain it away by saying spark plugs only cost $.79 each.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    I'm very suprised of the price difference. I guess, earth quake and crime rate aside, L.A will be an excellent place for buying the hot selling Camry. :) If I were near buy, I wouldn't mind help my friends get theirs. All the 2000 LE here are going for $19K, and because it's the best selling car and new good looks, most dealer won't go below that. :"(

    And Zhu is right. Edmunds list the 2000 Odyssey 0-60 speed exactly the same as the Siennas (9.6 seconds). Edmunds listed 99 Sienna 0-60 at 9.3 seconds (I think you mistook this for odysseys), and 99 odyssey at 9.5 seconds.

    Also its towing compacity is 3500 lbs, not 4500 lbs. You can find the exact specs at To do that, you need "Requires surge-type or electric trailer brakes, load-distribution hitch and transmission oil cooler." Sienna could also tow 3500 lbs. And to do that, it also requires "wiring converters and towing hitch receivers". That spec is at

    Let's move on. This is not a minivan confrenece.
  • wenyue,

    My mistake. Ody is indeed 9.6 sec, I was looking at the Passport..... I guess I'm still kinda shaken up from that earth shaker. But Edmund's lists the towing capacity at 2000lbs, double that of Sienna's. I guess these are in stock form.

    Actually, Camry still lags Accord sales, since without the addition of Solara sales, it would be #2 in sales. I'm hoping they will advertise the Solara at $15,800 too..... I think it's a better looking car than the homely Camry. P.S. I still don't see any difference in the front fascia.... not in the pictures, nor in person.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    That's ok. Earth quakes will shake you up a bit. Especaily one that's 7.0 magnitude. :)

    We are not going to get into the if solara is a camry topic again are we? Everyone and 99% of the experts are saying the Solara is a camry. You have one source that say it isn't, but every other source is saying it is. Camry solara is just a modified Camry sedan with new styling. Everyone recognizes it. It really doesn't matter what you think, or what I think. What but vast majority of the world world thinks is what counts. As it is, every one except a very very few, recongnizes the Camry solara as a camry coupe.

    We can drag onto another debate without convincing each other. You must figured it out by now, that all our debates end up with no conclusion. It's really a futile attemp. So you don't need to try to convince me, and I don't need to convince you. Camry sedan and solara coupe together is number 1 seller over the Accord sedan and coupe. That's how the world takes it, and we can't change it. I won't talk about this issue any more. Off to do more productive things... Best of luck. :)
  • zhuzhu Posts: 6
    I agree. Let's move on.
  • lsclsc Posts: 210
    Just test drove the Camry 4 cyl and the Camry V6. I'm sure you guys may not agree but walked away saying that the 4 cyl was unacceptable. Gotta have at least a V-6 in a midsize car.
  • After looking at the Camry and Accord I decided to go with the 2000 Accord EX 4 cyl, dark blue and added the spoiler, mud flaps and floor mats. The spoiler really adds alot to the looks of the car (go to and you can select the color and the options you want to add). I wanted a 4 cyl and after driving the Accord and Camry I was not impressed (at all)with the performance or handling of the Camry. The Accord is peppier and the handling is much crisper than the Camry.

    The one thing that really bothers me about the Camry is that everyday I see at least 100 Camry's driving down the road and I'm tired of looking at them. Could these all be re-saled Avis cars?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Count Hertz too... I see more Camrys in Hertz lots than Tauruses these days.
  • Just picked up my 99' Ex 4cyl, found that it was made in Japan. I thought they were made in Ohio. Any comment? Is that only LX and DX made in Ohio?

  • fstar,

    Accords are also built in Japan. My dealer's stock of LX I-4 is about 1/3 Japan-built. I believe the V6 is the only wholly Ohio built trim. You can tell where they're built from the vin#.... if it begins with a "1", it's built in Ohio.... "J" is for Japan.
  • missy8missy8 Posts: 1
    Have never purchased a vw before, and all this discussion of poor warranty, electrical problems, German reliability, etc. concerns me. Am considering the Passat 4 cylindar turbo. Any additional insights?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Honda's manufacturing capacity for US Accords is only 340K/year, and sales numbers per year is way above that. For 1998, Honda had to start manufacturing Accords for export to the USA (about 60K were imported for that model year), perhaps the same is still happening (given that Accord is selling even better now, up by about 5-7%). So your car might be one of those 60-70K cars coming from Japan.

    VW supposedly has worked on improving reliability on its lineup, and I liked the way Passat handles (one of the top three cars I was looking at before bringing home my first Accord, two years ago). I wasn't impressed with the turbo engine though (didn't drive the V6 which may be good). If reliability is your concern, V6 may be a better option as well. Honda and Toyota don't guarantee flawless reliability either. I'm one very satisfied Honda customer, and the only problem I've had in two years, and with over 32K miles now, is a faint rattle that appeared in the moonroof when the car was only six month old. With the oil change, I complained to the dealer, and they applied some lubricant, and it works fine to this day. Other than that, I thoroughly enjoy the car. BUT there are some unsatisfied cutomers as well, that I read from in these posts. So, you can be on either side with any car.
  • Can some body tell me the octane level of fuel to use for 200 Accord Ex 4 cylinder
  • harry,

    87 octane.
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